[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12119

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Hello....I'm a Newbie!!
From: Andrea

2a. Re: Predator behavior
From: T Smith
2b. Re: Predator behavior
From: girlndocs
2c. Re: Predator behavior
From: katkellm
2d. Re: Predator behavior
From: Andrea

3a. Re: Ground beef
From: T Smith
3b. Re: Ground beef
From: Andrea
3c. Re: Ground beef
From: costrowski75
3d. Re: Ground beef
From: Carol Dunster
3e. Re: Ground beef
From: Andrea

4a. Re: Puppy Scare
From: carnesbill
4b. Re: Puppy Scare
From: PK Shader
4c. Re: Puppy Scare
From: costrowski75

5a. Re: Newbie here with a question
From: Andrea
5b. Re: Newbie here with a question
From: jennifer_hell

6a. A good raw-inspired chew?
From: Kathie Middlemiss
6b. Re: A good raw-inspired chew?
From: Andrea

7a. Re: Wolf goes fishing for salmon
From: costrowski75

8.1. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
From: Gail Edmond
8.2. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
From: Gail Edmond
8.3. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
From: Gail Edmond

9a. Re: PLEASE HELP- how much to feed?
From: Gail Edmond

10. Grizzly bear meat ok???
From: sfed57

11a. Re: Feeding Toy breeds
From: Gail Edmond

12a. Re: Salmon oil and other questions - Now entropion and freezers
From: lauraanimal1

Messages
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1a. Re: Hello....I'm a Newbie!!
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 11:35 am ((PDT))

> I'm starting her out on raw chicken for the first time and she
looks
> at me like I'm nuts!!

Some dogs dont get that the chicken is food at first. Try cutting
ribbons in the meat and or sprinkling some parmesan cheese to get her
to try it.

> How much chicken a day should she eat?

A good starting point is 2-3% of her expected ideal ADULT weight
every day. Not much for little ones, but lots of small breeds need
more than that. Just let her eat for now and if she gains too much
weight cut back down.

> Should it be completely thawed out or can it be a bit frozen

Small dogs sometimes don't do well with cold food since it can lower
their body temp. Start with thawed and later you can see how she
tolerates cooler food.

> does RAW feeding include raw veggies too?

Nope, dogs are carnivores and have no nutritional need for vegetation.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: Predator behavior
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 11:36 am ((PDT))

I think your friend's concern is justifiable. I have 3 Danes that will be
HUGE! but does that mean I should be concerned about my son getting a cut?
I also had the same fear from people telling me that but there are some
articles available that people will give you the links to on this list.
Just print them & give your friend a copy :-)
I would think that feeding raw dead meat is not the same as bringing down
live meat & killing it themselves. I think it is already in a dog's
instinct to kill if they are going to do it.
Trina

On 10/4/07, Carol Dunster <cedunster@centurytel.net> wrote:
>
> I was talking with a friend about feeding raw and he said that he
> wouldn't be comfortable doing that because he has two 95 lb dogs and
> livestock. He said that he couldn't be sure that, having been eating
> raw meat, they wouldn't go for his livestock - esp. if one of them
> were bleeding. What is everyone's experience on that?
>
> I could see the concern with dogs that large, they could kill his
> goats all too easily.
>
> ~ Carol
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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2b. Re: Predator behavior
Posted by: "girlndocs" girlndocs@hotmail.com girlndocs
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 11:36 am ((PDT))

> Kibble fed dogs kill animals sometimes and so do raw fed dogs
> sometimes. Diet has no bearing on it.

Exactly, Bill.

When we brought Zoe home the only things she had eaten since being
weaned were kibble and commercial dog treats.

The first time she saw my hens she literally broke the gate down to
try and get them. It took me, my husband and a prong collar to bodily
haul her back to the house.

Since then I've worked on "leave it" with her and desensitized her to
the chickens a bit (the wire gate is now covered with plywood, so she
can hear them but usually not see them). Despite being raw fed she's
way less nutso about them. She will run up to the pen to fetch her
ball and come back to me without obsessive sniffing or listening.

Kristin

Messages in this topic (8)
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2c. Re: Predator behavior
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 11:37 am ((PDT))

Hi Carol,
Message# 142658 is my farm dog story. KathyM

Messages in this topic (8)
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2d. Re: Predator behavior
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 11:37 am ((PDT))

My dogs have the prey drive of a kumquat even though they are fed raw.
They don't make the correlation between what mom feeds them and the
living animals they see. Lots of raw fed dogs live with livestock,
hunt with their owners, etc without attacking the animals. If they
don't hurt the goats now they won't when they are fed raw, even if
their diet is primarily goat.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Carol Dunster <cedunster@...> wrote:
>
> I was talking with a friend about feeding raw and he said that he
> wouldn't be comfortable doing that because he has two 95 lb dogs and
> livestock. He said that he couldn't be sure that, having been eating
> raw meat, they wouldn't go for his livestock - esp. if one of them
> were bleeding. What is everyone's experience on that?

Messages in this topic (8)
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3a. Re: Ground beef
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 11:36 am ((PDT))

I was under the impression it could be fed but not as the main diet.
I use beef patties (mini) for treats & beef balls for pills.
Trina

On 10/4/07, Carol Dunster <cedunster@centurytel.net> wrote:
>
> I was wondering what the take was on using a quality low fat ground
> beef at times would be? I've been holding back on switching the dogs,
> because I just won't be anywhere to buy meat now for weeks, but I do
> have a few things and a lot of ground beef I could easily share with
> the dogs. I'll be buying a quarter of a beef again the first of next
> month that I can share with them anyway.
> ~ Carol
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (21)
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3b. Re: Ground beef
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 11:36 am ((PDT))

I once ordered whole rabbits from our buying group and accidentally got
ground rabbit. When I fed it to my dog it was gone in an instant, so I
knew it wouldn't turn out well. He moped around for a while afterwards
and eventually vomited up the mass on my brand new throw rug. Now I
either use ground meat to stuff into chicken cavities or I feed a chunk
frozen. I'm sure lots of dogs politely eat ground foods on the rare
occasion they are offered, but mine don't fall into that category.

I'm not sure how newbie dogs would do with ground only without bone,
I'm thinking some pretty sloppy poo. . .Any possibility you can get
some chicken frames to add in there?

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Carol Dunster <cedunster@...> wrote:
>
> I was wondering what the take was on using a quality low fat ground
> beef at times would be? I've been holding back on switching the dogs,
> because I just won't be anywhere to buy meat now for weeks, but I do
> have a few things and a lot of ground beef I could easily share with
> the dogs. I'll be buying a quarter of a beef again the first of next
> month that I can share with them anyway.

Messages in this topic (21)
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3c. Re: Ground beef
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 12:25 pm ((PDT))

"T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:
>
> I was under the impression it could be fed but not as the main diet.
> I use beef patties (mini) for treats & beef balls for pills.
*****
Using it up is better than having it go to waste; and feeding raw
ground meat as a make-do til the "real stuff" arrives is better than
postponing a raw diet til the "real stuff" arrives. Just as a diet
solely of chicken is doable in the short haul, so is ground meat.
Neither I'd want to commit to full time, but we're not talking full
time.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (21)
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3d. Re: Ground beef
Posted by: "Carol Dunster" cedunster@centurytel.net carwynst
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 12:31 pm ((PDT))

On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 17:47:25 -0000, you wrote:

>I'm not sure how newbie dogs would do with ground only without bone,
>I'm thinking some pretty sloppy poo. . .Any possibility you can get
>some chicken frames to add in there?

I'm sure I could, but I'll have to hold off changing diet until we
shop again the end of the month is all. :)

~ Carol
_____________
Carol Dunster
cedunster@centurytel.net

Messages in this topic (21)
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3e. Re: Ground beef
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 1:06 pm ((PDT))

Well, then, it's worth a try, right? Sloppy poos aren't the end of the
world. Like Chris said, it's better than having to hold off for a
couple of weeks. Let us know how it goes.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Carol Dunster <cedunster@...> wrote:

> I'm sure I could, but I'll have to hold off changing diet until we
> shop again the end of the month is all. :)

Messages in this topic (21)
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4a. Re: Puppy Scare
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 11:36 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "janandshelby" <janandshelby@...>
wrote:
>
> Then, on vacation (away from the list and our homeopath,) she
> (at five
> months old) CHOWED down a chicken thigh. Results were both
> poop and vomit. I wasn't
> particularly concerned; however, in the morning, she refused
> both water and food, and
> was obviously NOT WELL. My first fear was dehydration.

You shouldn't be so dependent on a homeopath or vet or anoyone else
when it comes to feeding your dogs. You have been feeding raw for 4
years now. You shouldn't panic at every hickup. She refused food
and water because she still had stuff in her tummy from the previous
meal. That happens from time to time.

> Took her to vet who
> was on site at the dog show we were attending, and, with
> excellent care, including
> immediate hydration, x-rays, etc., we discovered that she
> had several pieces of VERY
> SHARP bone shards in her tummy.

I'm not so impressed with the vet care. I don't think she had VERY
SHART bone shards in her tummy. These things are not as sharp as
they sometimes appear. If it had been left another few hours, I'm
sure the whole thing would have been digested and nothing else would
have been necessary.

> I have to assume this was "operator error"; i.e., I should
> have been doing
> something other than what I was doing.

Don't assume any kind of error. Just assume it's something that
happens from time to time. My Abby has swallowed chicken drumsticks
whole more than once. There was no adverse effects. I will admit
that my Abby is considerably larger than your little one. :)
However, it's the same principle.

> (She previously handled chicken thighs with
> ease).

I am sure if she had been given the opporntunity, she would have
handled this one also.

> I'm using a meat
> tenderizer to pound the heck out of the bones I'm giving
> her now.)

It's just because she gave you a scare. There is really no reason
to other than that. You should feed her some larger pieces in the
future so she can't swallow the whole thing.

> This veterinarian was supportive (and well educated) of
> raw feeding, but I remain both
> confused and surprised that a thigh bone was troublesome for
> a five month old terrier( approximately 6 lbs).

It wouldn't have been if enough time had been allowed for the
digestive process to have completed naturally.

> I have to say that watching her remarkable improvement
> with special wet diet for GI tract
> for two weeks, then a slow re- introduction of raw, had
> me questioning my decision to
> feed raw, and am extremely anxious now about how she should
> be fed.

I don't think any special diet was necessary. She would have eaten
again when the previous meal had been digested. Just feed larger
parts from here on out. It was just one of those scary things that
isn't nearly as dangerous as it first appears.

> I
> thank God for the care she
> received, as I feel this situation was potentially
> life threatening.

I don't feel it was anywhere near life threatening and would have
resolved itself on its own if given the opportunity.

> I'm hearing a lot of "I told you so"s from friends and family
> that I've tried to convert to raw,
> believe me.

Only because you made such a big deal out of it.

> Guess I'm needing both reassurance and further advice. I've
> lost my
> confidence, and can't stand thinking I could be doing harm to
> my beloved pets.

You shouldn't loose your confidence because of one little bump in
the road. You are doing the right thing by feeding your dogs like
you do. Your only mistake was to panic when something unexpected
happened.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (6)
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4b. Re: Puppy Scare
Posted by: "PK Shader" Forloveofdogs@gmail.com forloveofdogs
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 11:36 am ((PDT))

First Jan, let me say I am glad all ended well. Weren't you lucky to
find an enlightened vet in your time of crisis? I guess the Universe
is watching over you pretty carefully.

A few years back I was having dinner with my mother who was 68 at the
time and very lively and strong. She still did all her own gardening,
snow shoveling, cabinate refinishing, etc and had all her own , strong
teeth a fact of which she was very proud. Anyway it was just my mom
and me having a lovely steak dinner.

All of the sudden my mom went pale and made the most peculiar face.
She clasped at her throat and I realized she was choking. As the
color drained from her face I jumped up and implemented the Heimlich
maneuver and out flew an ungodly large piece of steak.

I was stunned for more reasons than just the fact that my mom was
choking (yep the very same mom who used to tell us to chew our food
carefully). I asked her what on earth possessed her to try to swallow
such a large, unchewed piece of steak? Now mind you my mom has been
eating steak all of her life.

She just flushed a lovely shade of red, shrugged her shoulders and
lifted her hands in a "Beats the Heck out of Me" gesture. She then
returned to enjoy the remainder of her steak dinner, this time cutting
smaller pieces and chewing each a little more thoroughly.

So here is my point. Stuff Happens. Even to the best and most
experienced of us. If you have a bad experience with a food or a
flower or a color do you then avoid all of them for the rest of your
life?? No of course not. You just say "Hmmm, that was a lesson" and
take from it what you need to improve what you are doing and discard
the rest.

Those other "nay sayers" may just want to feel better about giving
their dogs less so don't fall for it. Just look into the sparkling,
healthy, robust eyes of the dogs who have been enjoying their
"intended" diet and let that be your guide.

PK

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/SATZ_Main/

Two Sided Communication, Cooperation, Respect

Messages in this topic (6)
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4c. Re: Puppy Scare
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 11:50 am ((PDT))

"janandshelby" <janandshelby@...> wrote:
we discovered that she had several pieces of VERY
> SHARP bone shards in her tummy.
*****
Well, yeah. That's how the are before they are digested.

(By the way, contrary to what I've read on the list(s), I'm using a
meat
> tenderizer to pound the heck out of the bones I'm giving her now.)
*****
A potential problem with this method is you are simply dumping bone
into her. Which means you may well be giving her more bone than she
would eat on her own, and more bone than she needs. I would stop
that and just feed larger body parts.

I feel this situation was potentially life threatening.
*****
Life is potentially life threatening. I don't see this event as
potentially life threatening, myself. I see it as overreacting
supported by allopathic mindset.

Having had a dog in almost exactly the same situation I can say with
some confidence that bones in the stomach mean little more than bones
in the stomach. Fortunately for my dog I had more on-the-job-
training and my vet was not freaked out by bones in the belly. I do
believe if I had been freaked out she would have responded with a
correspondingly greater sense of urgency.

Since a person's got to do what a person's got to do, make your
choices and decsisons based on your tolerances. I think the "I told
you so"s of the world should not make the decision for you; if you
are convinced a species appropriate diet is the best for your dogs'
health, then feed a species appropriate raw diet. If you have to
adjust, adjust. If you cannot in accord with your own conscience
continue feeding whole raw, don't.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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5a. Re: Newbie here with a question
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 11:37 am ((PDT))

If carcasses mean mostly bone you'll need to add some meat. If you
mean whole chickens and turkeys that is ok. Big cuts from the grocery
store work well, too so don't forget about human cuts. Your list looks
too lean on meat, though. Since the first few weeks should be as easy
as whole chickens cut up you have some time to look for more sources.
You should probably avoid heart and organ at first and then add them
slowly.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jennifer_hell" <jenniferhell@...>
wrote:

> Chicken:
> carcasses, heart, stomach, liver
> Turkey:
> carcasses, necks
> Lamb:
> heart, liver, lungs, part of the stomach,ribs, spine.

Messages in this topic (4)
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5b. Re: Newbie here with a question
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 12:27 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> If carcasses mean mostly bone you'll need to add some meat. If you
> mean whole chickens and turkeys that is ok.
>snip<
> You should probably avoid heart and organ at first and then add them
> slowly.

They're not whole chicken and turkeys,I don't know how much meat is
left on them until I get them. Carcasses are what is left after the
meat for human consumption is removed.
I thought heart is muscle meat? Would that be bad to add in the beginning?

Jennifer with Mandy

Messages in this topic (4)
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6a. A good raw-inspired chew?
Posted by: "Kathie Middlemiss" geekgirl717@gmail.com katjermid
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 11:53 am ((PDT))

I want to apologize in advance if this is considered off-topic.

I have two young pups who seem to be just entering the chew everything I
can get my grubby paws on stage.

What I would like is some recommendations to some good healthy chew
things that I can leave around the house to hand off to them when they
start in on something they shouldn't. (I am using correction, but I
want to be able to hand them the 'appropriate' chewy thingy).

Because these would be laying around the house true 'raw' wouldn't be
sanitary, so I was wondering if anyone here has any thoughts. Also if
there is something you have used in the past, if you have a specific
place you have gotten them from, I would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE that
information too.

Thanks in advance!

Kathie, Mom to:
Jake, Max and Ruby - 3 weeks on raw and doing great!

Messages in this topic (2)
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6b. Re: A good raw-inspired chew?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 12:26 pm ((PDT))

IME, if you give pups big complicated food daily and some good ol' raw
chewing fun here and there the desire to chew throughout the day goes
away. I used pork feet for Geiger and Tycho when they started teething
as extra chewing fun. I've heard that antlers are good if you can get
them.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Kathie Middlemiss <geekgirl717@...>
wrote:

> I have two young pups who seem to be just entering the chew
> everything I can get my grubby paws on stage.

Messages in this topic (2)
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7a. Re: Wolf goes fishing for salmon
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 12:05 pm ((PDT))

"basilbourque" <wildbasil@...> wrote:
> So what's the deal about Pacific salmon being dangerous to dogs
when fed raw?
*****
The deal is the rickettsia parasite that may be carried by a fluke
that lives in salmonids in the PNW. The area of concern is from
southern Alaska south to the mid-California coast, and east to the
Cascades.

Katmai is southwest of Anchorage; it would interesting to ask the
park wildlife experts about the presence of the parasite.

Certainly not all salmonids are carriers; the disease is generally
fatal to canines but I imagine dosage matters. Some people feed PNW
salmon fresh, others freeze it, others choose not to feed it at all.

Unless the author chose not to reveal the subsequent death of the
wolf, I'd say this supports the notion that PNW salmon is not an
unequivocal death warrant for our dogs.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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8.1. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
Posted by: "Gail Edmond" windybond1@yahoo.co.uk windybond1
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 12:27 pm ((PDT))

Cant remember if i replied to this last night as there are so many emails and i have had a bad two days keep getting massive muscle spasms in the middle of my back probably to much time sat at my laptop reading them, but they have both just turned one and they are shih tzus..

Gail

----- Original Message ----
From: tottime47 tottime@aol.com
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October, 2007 11:22:06 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner

Hi Gail,

You don't, that's what the site is for, to help.

We've all been there, lol. I've only been feeding since Feb so I'm
pretty new too!

Beef is pretty fatty for their first meals.

What you want to do is get some chicken, best to get a whole chicken
if you can and cut it up yourself.

Offer them a piece bigger than their muzzle area, so they can't
swallow it whole. If they won't eat it, try some of the other
suggestions to make it more appealing to them.

How big are your dogs and how old are they?

I'm sure others will be chiming in here to help you too!
Just hang in there and welcome to the wild side, lol.........

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogro ups.com, Gail Edmond <windybond1@ ...> wrote:
>
> Sorry to sound so ignorant on this but am i doing wrong got a bag
of bits from the butchers mostly beef with lots of fat so it looked
yuk to me so boiled slowly for a couple of hours to get rid of the
fat whats left was loads of good looking beef to me but still down on
the kitchen floor untouched.
>
> Trying to learn what is best. They are so skinny though and i
worry about my two babies.
>
> Gail

___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it
now.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (36)
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8.2. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
Posted by: "Gail Edmond" windybond1@yahoo.co.uk windybond1
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 12:28 pm ((PDT))

thanks for the reply i think you are probably right it is me at fault.

Gail

----- Original Message ----
From: katkellm <katkellm@yahoo.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 4 October, 2007 12:34:04 AM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogro ups.com, Gail Edmond <windybond1@ ...> wrote:
> They have consumed the breast and bone of chicken and i think good
everything is ok then the next meal they wont touch it, they have not
eaten for three days now and am really worried.

Hi Gail,
If they have eaten chicken breasts and all went well then i think we
can assume that they like chicken. I think that you are confusing the
dogs by offering cooked stuff and then raw stuff and then picking up
what they don't eat and offering them something else. I think that
maybe you should make a feeding plan and stick with it. Provided that
your dogs are healthy, i would make sure that you are not feeding them
more than 2% of their ideal body weight. I would put down the chicken
breast and give them 10ish minutes to decide if they want to eat and
if not pick it up and put it back in the fridge for later. This will
be the way hard part, but while they are sizing up the chicken and
what to do with it, please don't fuss over them or try to coax them to
eat or hover around. Stay in the room with them but act unconcerned
about what they choose to do. Dogs are very adept at reading us, so
don't fret over feeding time. When you take control of the feeding
schedule and not your dogs, i think they'll eat happily. KathyM

___________________________________________________________
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Messages in this topic (36)
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8.3. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
Posted by: "Gail Edmond" windybond1@yahoo.co.uk windybond1
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 1:06 pm ((PDT))

Thanks i didnt realise you meant this thought you meant trim the reply even though i thought it was trim enough. How stupid you must think but i am sure there are other newbies to groups who dont realise this.

Gail.

Ps i have trimmed i think

----- Original Message ----
From: costrowski75 <Chriso75@AOL.COM>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 4 October, 2007 4:49:21 AM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner

, Gail Edmond <windybond1@ ...> wrote:
>
> Sorry but what do you mean as trim.
*****
Trim as in cut out--delete, remove--material from the old post

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Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit Yahoo! For Good

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Messages in this topic (36)
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9a. Re: PLEASE HELP- how much to feed?
Posted by: "Gail Edmond" windybond1@yahoo.co.uk windybond1
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 12:32 pm ((PDT))

Hi its nice to know that you realise that some of us are complete beginners and trying our hardest for our dogs to do the best for them but are quite ignorant and your help is greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

Gail

----- Original Message ----
From: katkellm <katkellm@yahoo.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 4 October, 2007 2:49:00 AM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: PLEASE HELP- how much to feed?

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogro ups.com, "kwrestad" <kwrestad@.. .> wrote:
> Their diet consists of the following (rotated at random; 1 of these
> at a time): How many should they be fed per meal?

Hi,
My advice would be to think in terms of the weight of the piecs and
not how many pieces. Since both of your dogs are 55lbs. feeding them
2-3% of their body weight means that you should be feeding around a
pound and a half a day per dog. This amount can be upped or downed as
needed based on how your dogs look to you. My 55lb lab porks out if
she eats more than a pound a day, so just adjust the amount as you go.
I know that you didn't ask, but i would like to ask you to maybe
rethink some of your feeding choices. You are feeding a lot of bone in
comparison to the amount of meat. While this might be a good thing
for a newbie dog, overtime chicken pieces and turkey necks are just
not enough meat. Could you maybe include a hunk of beef heart or pork
roast or any kind of boneless meat with the meal? Also, don't forget
that organs need to be a part in the diet-the chorus here is 80% meat,
10% bone, 5% organ meat and 5% liver. I think that it is great that
you are feeding raw because i know it can be hard to swim upstream in
a kibble world. KathyM

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Messages in this topic (8)
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10. Grizzly bear meat ok???
Posted by: "sfed57" sfed57@yahoo.ca sfed57
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 12:33 pm ((PDT))

Just started my two girls on the raw diet, 3 days now on chicken and
all is going great! They absolutly LOVE it and no problems to speak of!

My question is this, I know a coulple who will be going hunting for
grizzly bear and they dont want ANY of the meat. I am 100% certain
that a wolf would quite happily go to town on a dead grizzly so it
should be ok for the dogs but I havent heard any word of bear meat at
all in any of the posts. Has any one had experience with feeding bear
meat? And what of the size of the bones, could they be "wreck" bones
or should they be ok? They are Siberians, one is full grown (50lbs)
and the other a puppy (20lbs).

Any advice would be appreciated, and thanks in advance!

Shawna

Messages in this topic (1)
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11a. Re: Feeding Toy breeds
Posted by: "Gail Edmond" windybond1@yahoo.co.uk windybond1
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 1:04 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

Just a query but are most of the people on this site from America or are there any from Great Britain, just curious no reason behind this except from were abouts they are getting the food from and is there any where here in UK that supply good quality food.

Gail

----- Original Message ----
From: costrowski75 <Chriso75@AOL.COM>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 4 October, 2007 4:36:59 AM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: Feeding Toy breeds

Gail Edmond <windybond1@ ...> wrote:
>
> Necks are supposed to be great tooth brushes
*****
Any bone that requires effort is a great tooth brush. Any meaty bone
is an even better tooth brush. Any meaty bone that gives the dog the
opportunity to literally sink its teeth into the meat is not only a
great tooth brush but also fine dental floss and a gum massage to boot.

Even for toy breeds there is a variety of meaty bones to choose from.
Chris O

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Messages in this topic (8)
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12a. Re: Salmon oil and other questions - Now entropion and freezers
Posted by: "lauraanimal1" lauraanimal1@yahoo.com lauraanimal1
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 1:07 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi, Laura!
> Its possible for entropion to recur.
> http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1463-
5224.2007.00482.x?cookieSet=1
> http://tinyurl.com/2ywv2t
>
> Are these the symptoms and behaviors he had originally when he had
> entropion, before the surgery?

Yes and no, before the surgery and before the 1st time on raw she
didnt have any signs, then 2nd day into it, yes she started it,
including the head shaking. When she came off the raw before the
surgery, it stopped considerbly, to "almost" nothing and no more head
shaking. Then a couple months later had the surgery cause I wanted to
get it over and done with. No problems after. Then now starting raw
again, same thing, 2 days in and eyes watering and head shaking.

When I take her to the vet I will have him check and see if it has
come back, the only thing that bother me is that this"is" a patern
where the raw is concerned, I can believe it being timing the 1st
ime, but the exact same way , same timing and everything a 2nd time???

>
> Have you considered checking out your local craigslist or FreeCycle
to
> get more freezers to hold all the great stuff you're offered?
> Often, you can find them for cheap or for free.
> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/

>
> http://www.freecycle.org/

>
> TC
> Giselle
>
>

yes I have posted there now a couple of times, Craigeslist, doesnt
have much in this sparsley populated state and They even have a
community "cafe" yahho group where they can sell things or looking to
buy, nothing therre yet either!!!!!

Thanks for all the info, this place is great, I never thought about
entropion reaccuring.

Laura and Ishta

Messages in this topic (7)
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