[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12111

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1.1. Shiner doing better! (was Re: 911-PLEASE HELP)
From: Giselle

2a. Re: New Baby
From: carnesbill
2b. Re: New Baby
From: rottinluvr

3a. Re: Maggots
From: carnesbill

4a. Broken tooth
From: Monica

5a. Re: Mange
From: Shannon Hully

6a. Re: Garlic - Yes or No
From: carnesbill
6b. Re: Garlic - Yes or No
From: costrowski75

7a. Re: Oil
From: costrowski75
7b. Re: Oil
From: costrowski75

8a. Plant Material {previously - Re: Adding on to Supplement Question}
From: costrowski75

9. They have NO idea!
From: ginny wilken

10.1. Re: Salmon Oil
From: costrowski75
10.2. Re: Salmon Oil
From: Howard Salob
10.3. Re: older dog (rescue- lack of teeth) and raw diet
From: Howard Salob
10.4. Re: older dog (rescue- lack of teeth) and raw diet
From: caroline gebbie

11a. ADMIN/Re: mange...
From: costrowski75

12. More feeding amount, types, NEWBIE questions: Giant & small breeds
From: T Smith

13. Update on "Rio da Pug"
From: Virginia Snider

14a. Diabetic Diet
From: DJagodzinski21@aol.com
14b. Re: Diabetic Diet
From: caroline gebbie

15. Re: Salmon oil and other questions
From: lauraanimal1

16a. Re: first day success from another scared newbie
From: caroline gebbie

17. NEW to group, new 4 month old chocolate puppy/male , now already 30.
From: beth

18. Deer Season
From: Donna

Messages
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1.1. Shiner doing better! (was Re: 911-PLEASE HELP)
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 9:47 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Chelsea!
Regular sized chicken breasts may just be too 'floppy' for
her right now.
I know she is little, and doesn't have the adult teeth or jaw strength
that she needs to eat properly right now. but the only way to help her
get there is to feed whole meat and bone portions.

Why don't you try ribboning the meat on the breast with heavy kitchen
shears? It will give her strips of meat to grab onto and work at.
You might even offer her leg quarters, ribboning them the same way. It
doesn't matter right now if she eats the bones.

Another possibility right now, is to get Game Hens. These are
chickens, but the are slaughtered at a younger age, and are smaller,
and the bones are softer. You could put down 1/2 Game Hen at a time,
and let her work at it.

The more practice she has eating real food, the better she will be
able to do.

You might want to feed her low sodium broth and some diced up chicken
in small, frequent amounts for a couple days, until you're sure her
throat isn't sore.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I understand the difference between she choked (limp) and
choking-eyes bulgin, thrashing, making no noise..? This dogs turned
totally white and shocky and then blue.? I am pretty sure she was
choking.? It is also hard, when the throat of such a small dog is
completly closed in on a wind pipe, and trying to get to a vet.? This
was beyond terrifying, I was watching this little puppy die in my
hands.? I read everything on here, and I have always seen chicken
breats recomended for little puppies.?
> I do plan on moving forward with the raw very cautiously
>
> Chelsea
>

Messages in this topic (33)
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2a. Re: New Baby
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 9:52 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:

Yes to what Sandee said.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: New Baby
Posted by: "rottinluvr" rottinluv@cox.net rottinluvr
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 11:21 pm ((PDT))

Absolutely!!!

My Rotti pup, Casino, was 7 weeks old when I brought him home. He went
straight on raw that very day! He's now a little over 4 months, and is
growing up beautifully!!

Leanne

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: Maggots
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 9:53 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Brown" <jerseykev@...> wrote:
>
> Is there anything I should know about maggots?

Yes ... they are very good protein. My dearly departed Golden
Retriever, Skylar used to love to eat road kill squirrels that had
been laying in the hot Georgia sun for a week or so. They were
usually full of maggots and she never had a bad experience from one.
Most of the ones she ate were before her raw fed days. Never one
vomit nor loose stool from them.

Don't get the idea I conciously let her do this. Remember it was
before my raw days but if she got one in her mouth before I could stop
her, it was impossible to get it out. She would chomp a couple of
times and swallow. :) :) :) If I had known then what I know now, I
wouldn't have tried to stop her. :)

The only time in 12 years I ever saw Skylar and her brother Zack fight
was over a dead squirrel. :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Broken tooth
Posted by: "Monica" mommyof2gals@comcast.net mommyof2gals
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 9:53 pm ((PDT))

Hi all. My Loki (4yr old Kees) just did his annual vet check and has a
broken molar. It's cut down pretty deep but doesn't bother him so they are
just watching for now.

I do NOT think it's the raw diet in general that did it - I'm sure it was
either a beef bone (before I knew better) or God only knows what around the
house.

My question is this: should I be concerned about him further damaging the
tooth by gnawing on his everyday, mealtime bones as this is the side he
normally chews on or should I just take a watch and see attitude. I'm sure
the bill to pull the tooth will be enormous so I want to put it off as long
as possible! My vet is very raw-friendly but really couldn't say if further
raw bones would accelerate the problem since we don't know exactly what
caused it in the first place.

Opinions? What would you do? Pull it or wait while continuing to feed raw
(leaving raw is never the option btw).
Thanks!
Monica in IL
Owned by Loki, Tyr, Dizzy Tizzy and three obstinate cats (never mind the
human kids!)

Messages in this topic (11)
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5a. Re: Mange
Posted by: "Shannon Hully" summerwolf@theherbalhotline.com bluehankw
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 9:53 pm ((PDT))

> All I know is that they both itch like crazy. I thought they were
supposed to be healthier being on a raw diet?

Laura,

When I was studying herbal remedies a few years ago I read that if
you are treating a problem, it takes much longer to rid your system
of it than it took to get the problem. And when you start eating a
healthful diet and treating your body correctly it becomes healthy
enough to start to detox itself of all of the injustices visited
upon it by your earlier abuse (ie: bad diet, etc).

The same holds true for dogs. What we used to feed them (Doom
Nuggets (I love that name!!)) was bad for them, it was heaping up
their systems with chemicals and really nasty things (like ground
up pet collars along with the poor pets that used to wear them, who
had been given all kinds of horrible shots and such!! How's that
for "balanced nutrition"?? Sorry, off on a tangent.). When you
switch them to a raw diet, you are building up their body's health
and strength. After a while their system is strong enough to start
to rid itself of the built-up toxins. This can manifest itself in
all kinds of crazy, unexpected ways.

It seems awful but it is, oddly, a good thing. When your body is
weak it isn't healthy enough to fight a battle. It is already
trying its best to hold off the bad things that are going into it and
that is all it can handle. Once it starts to be healthy it has the
strength to take on a new battle to heal itself.

Shannon H.

PS: Sorry, I don't have any helpful suggestions on natural remedies
to mange.

Messages in this topic (8)
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6a. Re: Garlic - Yes or No
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 9:55 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Roseann <rgabrys@...> wrote:
>
> I've read you should Never feed it and I've
> also read to include it Often. Is there a consensus here?

Probably no consensus here. :) My rule is when in doubt about
something like this, look to nature. Would a wolf in the wild eat
the item in question? In the case of garlic, I doubt it very
seriously. So no, I don't feed it. After making that statement, I
will say that I don't withhold some leftover meat from human meals
just because it has some garlic on it. So let's just say I don't
feed it but I don't conciously avoid it either.

BTW: My dogs don't often have flea problems either.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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6b. Re: Garlic - Yes or No
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 11:13 pm ((PDT))

Roseann <rgabrys@...> wrote:

> Is garlic like onion and dangerous to feed to your dog or is it a
useful
> supplement to a raw diet?
*****
Garlic is less dangerous than onion if fed properly and it has no
particular value to a raw diet. It may make the dog less attractive to
fleas (or not) but it's not a menu thing.

I've read you should Never feed it and I've
> also read to include it Often.
*****
I think the "never feed it" group is reacting excessively. Clearly
people feed it and clearly dogs are not dropping dead because of it.
Feeding a small clove every other day or half as much every day ought
not be invasive at all. Since each dog is different, you would of
course want to test the waters before committing wholeheartedly.

During the worst of the flea season this summer I gave each of my dogs
a chopped small clove every other day; hard to know if it was the clove
or the break in weather or perhaps their immune systems perked
up...can't say. But the fleas are back to their usual uninvasive level
again.

Concidence or result? You be the judge.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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7a. Re: Oil
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 10:11 pm ((PDT))

"tobi1035" <tobi1035@...> wrote:
why not Cod liver oil?
*****
Because it is an inadequate source of Omega 3 fatty acids. If you for
some reason cannot feed liver, then supplementing with CLO may be
useful (please don't supplement with CLO instead of feeding real
liver). But for delivering Omega 3 fatty acids to the dog, short of
grassfed livestock and freeranging poultry, fish BODY oil (or salmon
oil or herring oil or seal oil if you're so inclined) can't be beat.

In order to get equivalent O3 doses from cod liver oil, you'd also be
tanking up on vitamins A and D, both of which accumulate in body fat.

Where do I find fish body oil?
*****
Health food stores, supermarkets, internet sales, big box stores like
Walmart or Costco or Sam's Club, pharmacies...hard not to find it, once
you're looking.

A good product will identify the species of fish ("fish" is not good
enough) and will list the ingredients. If you are not comfortable with
any of the ingredients, keep shopping because you will eventually find
one that suits. Choose a product that is exclusively Omega 3;
apparently the hot new trend (Dog save us) is a combo product with both
Omega 3 and Omega 6, as if to say we don't get enough Omega 6 already.

Hope this helps.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (12)
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7b. Re: Oil
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 10:22 pm ((PDT))

"briargarden07" <briargarden07@...> wrote:
But those
> vitamins are needed in the diet, and cod liver oil is a good addition
> to the diet in moderation.
*****
Dogs produce their own D and liver--real, intact liver--is a fine food
source of A. The vitamins a dog needs, except in extreme
circumstances, come aplenty from the food the dog eats. If you are
feeding a diet that is nutritionally deficient, you should work to
rebuild the menu so that CLO is not essential.

My dogs tolerate it much better than salmon
> oil,
*****
If CLO and salmon oil (or some other fish source) were equally endowed,
I'd agree with your point. But they're not.

and never understood why its got such a bad rap!
*****
1. It's redundant in a good raw diet. If the diet is inadequate, fix
the diet. 2. It delivers less Omega 3 than SO at equal doses and
delivers a real BANG of A and D when fed at equivalent Omega 3 levels.

Too much of one thing, not enough of the other.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (12)
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8a. Plant Material {previously - Re: Adding on to Supplement Question}
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 10:35 pm ((PDT))

"aliciamyan" <alicia_larson@...> wrote:
> Being new at
> this and a bit nervous, I probably didn't come off as confident as
> I'd like. Hopefully the oil will last long enough for me to read
> more and see more positive results so I'll be ready if the topic re-
> surfaces when I go back.
*****
I suspect you'll never be as good an audience as you were then. The
more you know--and the more you know WHY--the harder it will be to
listen to the taradiddle. That you were able to extricate yourself
from his pitch without wavering and/or buying an armload of dietary go-
fasters is to your great credit. You're further along than you think!
Chris O

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9. They have NO idea!
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 10:47 pm ((PDT))

Check this out, guys! It was passed on to me by the folks at
greentripe.com, but it speaks to every issue I hold dear: diet,
vaccines, BSL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FavisuIY8o

Unbelievable!

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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10.1. Re: Salmon Oil
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 10:54 pm ((PDT))

"cr008k" <crakoczy@...> wrote:
>
> For those who don't feed salmon oil, how much fish/ what percentage
of
> the diet is composed of fish?
*****
It's a pretty safe bet to say that my dogs are fed fish
infrequently. When salmon heads are in season, I feed salmon heads.
Sometimes I offer whole sardines (to mixed response). Sometimes my
BC shares a salmon or cod or pollock filet with the cat. And that's
it for fish in my dogs' lives.

Right now I am diligently giving my two intact bitches salmon oil
capsuIes; the other dogs get them less religiously.

Is feeding whole fish a realistic way
> of providing the same nutrients (esp w/ molly's itchiness)
*****
Fish offers more nutrients than fish oil. Whole fish offers more
nutrients than dressed or fileted fish. If you want regular doses of
Omega 3 fatty acids and you are not feeding grassfed livestock and
freerange poultry, fish body oil delivers more Omega 3 than most fish
do.

Your best bet would be to feed whole high-Omega 3 fish.
Chris O

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10.2. Re: Salmon Oil
Posted by: "Howard Salob" itiskismet1968@yahoo.com itiskismet1968
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 3:29 am ((PDT))

Dear Chris,

I see that you feed raw to your cat as well as your dogs. I am trying to get my cat started. Besides sardines what else do you feed her?

Sincerely,

Howard

costrowski75 <Chriso75@AOL.COM> wrote:
"cr008k" <crakoczy@...> wrote:
>
> For those who don't feed salmon oil, how much fish/ what percentage
of
> the diet is composed of fish?
*****
It's a pretty safe bet to say that my dogs are fed fish
infrequently. When salmon heads are in season, I feed salmon heads.
Sometimes I offer whole sardines (to mixed response). Sometimes my
BC shares a salmon or cod or pollock filet with the cat. And that's
it for fish in my dogs' lives.

Right now I am diligently giving my two intact bitches salmon oil
capsuIes; the other dogs get them less religiously.

Is feeding whole fish a realistic way
> of providing the same nutrients (esp w/ molly's itchiness)
*****
Fish offers more nutrients than fish oil. Whole fish offers more
nutrients than dressed or fileted fish. If you want regular doses of
Omega 3 fatty acids and you are not feeding grassfed livestock and
freerange poultry, fish body oil delivers more Omega 3 than most fish
do.

Your best bet would be to feed whole high-Omega 3 fish.
Chris O

---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

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10.3. Re: older dog (rescue- lack of teeth) and raw diet
Posted by: "Howard Salob" itiskismet1968@yahoo.com itiskismet1968
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 3:30 am ((PDT))

Dear Chris,

What happens if you have an older dog(that you got as a rescue) and has teeth missing. How does this affect the raw diet and eating of bones?

Sincerely,

Howard

---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

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10.4. Re: older dog (rescue- lack of teeth) and raw diet
Posted by: "caroline gebbie" caz320ml@yahoo.com caz320ml
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 3:36 am ((PDT))

Hi Howard

I am a newbie so get other advice but my Boxers had there first chicken this morning, Bonnie has no front teeth and managed fantastically.

Caroline, Bonnie and Londo

Howard Salob <itiskismet1968@yahoo.com> wrote:

---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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11a. ADMIN/Re: mange...
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 10:57 pm ((PDT))

Just a reminder that all mange discussions that do not actively include
the feeding of raw food should be taken elsewhere. DogHealth and
RawChat are excellent groups the non-dietary facets of mange.
Chris O
Mod Team

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12. More feeding amount, types, NEWBIE questions: Giant & small breeds
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 11:21 pm ((PDT))

It's been almost a week now. i am feeding just chicken.
I need help.
Do I feed chicken for another few weeks? I think the answer is yes.
I feed the Lhasas a leg or part of thigh (with bone).
The Danes & Dal get 1/2 a chicken (2 pounds or so) or a thigh & leg together
at each feeding.
I am NOT supplementing anything other than what they were getting before.
Should I be giving a vitamin, etc?
They are getting small treats in between & there's a bit over 'overfeeding'
of some things by others in the household (like liver, etc). It's not easy
teaching everyone in the household how to do this when I am new to it also.
I'm doing the best I can.
At this time I am understanding that the only wings I feed are to the Danes
or Dal IF still attached to the chicken.
But how about the Lhasas, I'm afraid I am overfeeding them with
legs/thighs. I have 2 @ 20 - 22 pounds (one is on a diet to lose about 8
more pounds). The other is about 10 pounds. I feed twice daily so what to
feed if not the wing.....I'm just a bit frazzled on the what & how much
still.
I know I have asked alot of questions but perhaps specifics can help me
out. I might have missed some replies too, there's a lot of emails on this
list & I'm also on a few other lists that are busy.
I don't think Whisper's gran mal seizure was related to the diet change but
I've not chatted with my regular vet yet to know his opinion of raw. I am
monitoring her.
As far as the Danes go, I feed them like i have been reading: the thigh &
leg meat/bone (sometimes half a chicken) & the Dal the same but watching all
their weights. If they look a wee thin, I add some extra & the Dal is
carefully monitored on weight to keep him from gaining any weight (he used
to be obese). I had him at a nice weight finally.
I know a few people have been asking me about this diet & they are
considering the change over but I cannot really advise them until i get it
better. I don't know if i am feeding enough bone! I know my little Lhasa
(the one who is on a diet) does have some white poop (more bone in poo, if i
read right) but the other has some runny poo.
The girl Dane pup seems to have good poo for the first time in her life
since on this diet!!! Excluding only a few accidents.
Casper (7 mo Dane) & Louie (5 mo Dane) are not quite as solid yet! I gave
Whisper a chicken neck & that is what seemed to help her poo get to normal.
Here's a very important question: I am only feeding chicken but i only get
one tiny neck in a whole chicken. Can I feed Turkey necks since i can get
those? We don't have chicken necks available & I need to get a bit more
bone to harden up the poop, right?
Trina

--
Chip (deaf Dalmatian) 11 yrs old
Casper (deaf Great Dane) 7 mo's old
Whisper (deaf Great Dane) 4 mos old
Louie (hearing Great Dane) 5 mos old
Joey (deaf & blind Lhasa Apso) 11 yrs old
Amy (disabled Lhasa Apso) 11 yrs old
Cassandra (disabled Lhasa Apso) 2 yrs old
Mr Paris (Lhasa Apso) 7 yrs old
Chloe (deaf & blind Spaniel mix) 16 yrs old

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13. Update on "Rio da Pug"
Posted by: "Virginia Snider" vsnider@cogeco.ca rawbglass
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 11:21 pm ((PDT))

Hi everyone,

Today I took it easy on his tummy and I gave him chicken, no bones though,
and he has never had a problem with it before. I cut it up tiny since he is
a puggy gulper. He kept it down for about 4 hours.

He had 2 watery poops sometime in the middle of the night. But he was
really playful, lots of energy, drinking lots of water and still letting me
know when he has to go out.

If he wasn't throwing up I'd think he was perfectly normal. I'll just keep
him on chicken for a few days and see how it goes.

Virginia

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14a. Diabetic Diet
Posted by: "DJagodzinski21@aol.com" DJagodzinski21@aol.com djagodzinski21
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 3:29 am ((PDT))

My 9 year old Rottie/Lab was diagnosed tonight with being a diabetic. The
vet wants to put him on a prescription diet. I don't want to do that. Can he
be on a raw diet? What can he eat?


~Donna~

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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14b. Re: Diabetic Diet
Posted by: "caroline gebbie" caz320ml@yahoo.com caz320ml
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 3:39 am ((PDT))

Just my opinion

But with people the raw diet like this is the best thing as it will not spike insulin, Is it food caused diabetes or type 1?

Caroline

DJagodzinski21@aol.com wrote:
My 9 year old Rottie/Lab was diagnosed tonight with being a diabetic. The
vet wants to put him on a prescription diet. I don't want to do that. Can he
be on a raw diet? What can he eat?

~Donna~

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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15. Re: Salmon oil and other questions
Posted by: "lauraanimal1" lauraanimal1@yahoo.com lauraanimal1
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 3:29 am ((PDT))

Chris O, Giselle, and everyone else who posted helpful information,

First of all I want to say thank you for all the responses. The
salmon oil question was wonderfully answered, I see I need to pick
me up some salmon oil, Does anyone know of any good brands or does
it matter as long as it is salmon oil and not CLO? I don't even have
a pet store in the town I live in, would a ranch store have it? You
would think that a college town would have more then this town does
but it doesn't. however Chris you did mention;

A naturally occurring menu of pastured, appropriately fed livestock,
wild game, freeranging poultry and oily, deep sea fish will provide
optimal (and naturally appropriate) levels of Omega 6 and Omega 3
(the ideal ratio is around 4:1).
so with that in mind I have 2 more questions, 1. since she is being
fed deer/elk/Antilope would it still be appropriate to give her
salmon oil? 2. Just out of pure curiosity/stupidity, how in nature
would wolves have steady access to deep sea fish? specially since
most are landlocked?

Now to answer everyones questions/statements.

> I asked in a previous post about my rottie eating mostly bone even
with
> plenty of meat, is this dangerous for her?
*****
I don't understand this. How can a dog be eating mostly bone if you
are feeding plenty of meat? Do you mean she's not eating the meat,
just the bone? If you find she eats the bone and passes up the meat
because she's full, simply feed her a bunch of boneless meals that
require her to eat meat if she's gonna eat anything. If the meat is
firmly attached to the bone, she'll generally have to eat the meat
before she can get at the bone.

What am I not seeing here?

AS for what you asked about what are you not seeing clearly, is
this, I am getting Antilope carcasses, with lots of meat still on
them. I put the whole thing out there for her to eat on, she will
eat some of the meat (that is very well naturally attached), but she
is mainly wanting to eat the ribs, I can give her hunks of
meat "off" the carcasses and she will still prefer to let it lie, or
bury it and eat the edible part of the ribs. This was why I was
asking, She does eat some whole plain meat chunks, but right now she
seems to just prefer munching on the ribs. I don't mind her munching
on the bones, I just need to know if it is dangerous in this amount.
If its ok then I wont bother her, like a lot of people say on here,
a dog know there body better then we do, but if it is, then I will
not give her any more carcasses, I have no problem with the tough
love, I just want to make sure it needs to be tough before I do it.
I want her healthy, not spoiled, but if there is no harm then let
her enjoy what she likes.
=====================================================================
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What meat protein is your rottie eating and for how long?

The question about the meat protein is because right now I have tons
of access to deer/elk./Antilope meat scraps.( all mixed together,
but mainly Antilope). They are mixed together(so in actuality it is
anywhere from 1-3 meat proteins mixed together for the most part)
and come from various parts of the body. I want to feed her what I
have an abundance of and store as much as I can while it is
available. I do have access to lamb/beef/pork stomachs lungs, hear,
liver, wind pipes, spleen, tongue, feet, heads, etc. all year round,
so I am focusing on what is not all year round. That was why I was
asking if it will do her harm if she only eats the wild game I am
getting right now for a while.(been on it roughly 3 weeks, will
remain(?) on it for another 2-3 months)
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My dogs have runny eyes when they go romping in the tall grass; and
they have runny eyes after wrestling with a complicated meal, I've
always attributed the tears to the effort they've exerted. Other
than that my dogs' eyes aren't runny. So I can't help much here.

As for they eyes, as I mentioned prior , was that before when I fed
her raw her eyes started watering very badly, I took her to the vet
and found that she "did" have inverted eyelids. However once I
stopped the raw, her watery eyes stopped for the most part but not
all. I did get the operation done for her eyes and she didn't have
any problems with watery eyes at all, even when she ran and played
in the weeds /changed climates/allergens, played hard, or got sand
and dust in her eyes, they would only water enough to clear them out
and that was it. The problem I am having now is AS SOON as I put her
back on raw she has started with the watery eyes again and this time
it is even worse. She has one eye that waters so bad she is always
wanting me to rub it, or rubbing it on the furniture or her self.
This was NOT an issues after the surgery and when not on raw, but IS
a big issue now. Her face is constantly wet from tears!! And she
does not have inverted eyelids anymore.
Was hoping you had more info on this one Chris, But then I am glad
your dog isn't dealing with this ;-)
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Hi, Laura!
Are you on 'no mail'?
Hmmm, did you search through the archived posts to find the responses
to the topics you've started?
Here's all the posts that turned up when I put Laura and Ishta into
the search box;
http://pets. groups.yahoo. com/group/ rawfeeding/ msearch?query=
Laura+and+ Ishta&pos= 0&cnt=10http://tinyurl. com/2hl3yl
http://pets. groups.yahoo. com/group/ rawfeeding/ msearch?query=
Laura+and+ Ishta&pos= 10&cnt=10
http://tinyurl. com/yp9yef
Are any of the answers you were looking for in there?

TC
Giselle

Giselle,
Yes I do get "Group" mailing and due to my predicament, I cant tell
you what those links, link to, I can tell you this, That the last
questions I had posted was in connection to a post someone had made
about there dog being on raw 3 days and the energy they had. there
are a few others that are either ones I started or ones I responded
to and asked questions in the response. Also look up by my e-mail
name, I am sure you will find a few more that was posted over a
year ago.
=====================================================================
=====================================================================
> Hi Laura,
>
> We can see you're not a big reader, lol.
>
> Your wish is Giselle's command. She post either
> a link to a page for newbies or post it over and over
> again, sometimes several times a day, lol........
>
> It is a wonderful page and should help you a lot if you take the
time
> to read it..........
>
> Oh Look! Here it is again! I sure hope Giselle doesn't mind me
> sending it on....
>
> Link; http://pets. groups.yahoo. com/group/ rawfeeding/
message/141374
>
> Hope this helps.....
>
> Carol, Charkee & Moli

As for the comments of obviously I don't read very much( you gave
your comment now I will give mine) I read as much as I can that I
have access to or have time for. Unfortunately the location where I
live it is very hard to pick up an internet signal, cell phone
signal and I don't even have t.v. became it wont even pick up that
signal. let alone get cable out here. To top that off, when I can
get online at my home, I am lucky to be able to hold the signal long
enough to read the mail I "do" get.
switching links is very difficult, to click on one of the
links means almost guaranteed disconnection and I would like to
continue reading and learning what I can, while I can. to top that
off, I don't have time to sit at my computer ALL day long fighting
with it so I can read each and every link. I do go into town and get
online at the library, that is when I can usually get most of my
mail read, although since the town is a college town and the library
is always full, When I do get the computer it is only for 1 hour and
I don't have time to spend it all on just this Group(I do have
family I "have" to keep in touch with for their health purposes), as
well as I don't have the time to sit and wait around for hours for
another computer to come free.(I do need to pick up the free meat I
get when I am in town as well as other running) So I do apologies
that I ask questions for the health of my dog and to learn knowledge
that I cant always get easy access to as most people can. it is
easier for me to get hooked to the list and post a question then it
is to look stuff up, it only takes, 3-4 clicks to post a question
compared to the 3+ clicks it does to look each thought or question
up when
each click is a risk of being disconnected!!! I am lucky if I can
get online at least once a day to check my e-mails, so I do
apologies if this is a inconvinace to anyone and I will just stop
asking obviously stupid questions when I should just read the
archives, and since I cant readily do that I just wont ask. please
keep one thing in mind, not everyone has the wonderful ability to do
some of the "simple" things. and being made to feel like their an
idiot simply because they ask questions and don't do much reading
the way you feel they should isn't very welcoming/friendly. Just
like this response is not very polite, just point blank, nor anyones
business what my difficulties in even being able to be a part of
this online community is, but I sure felt I had to explain myself as
to why "I'm not a big reader" or "take the time to read it"!!! You
see I would love to be a big reader and take the time to read them ,
had I had that ability!!! I have a copy of the bible, I DO take the
time to read it in depth daily, "it's a wonderful read and could
help you too if you take the time to read it"....... I would be
happy to mail you a copy at my expense if you don't have access to
one.
This place is really great for all the useful/friendly
information that everyone so freely gives. I do enjoy learning what
I can and letting my dog grow healthier every day because of it's
advice and vast knowledge of all the combined years of experience,
both new and old. Thank you everyone who posts!!!!!

Laura and Ishta

p/s
just so you know it took over 5 attempts to post this.

Messages in this topic (1)
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16a. Re: first day success from another scared newbie
Posted by: "caroline gebbie" caz320ml@yahoo.com caz320ml
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 3:30 am ((PDT))

Hi all
I have been reading as much as i could and feeding my 2 boxers both with health issues minced tripe until i could source proper raw.

Well this morning, wednesday is a late start for us so we decided to do it today.

Bonnie 11 year old boxer with no use of her back legs and a confirmed gulper.
Londo 7 year old boxer picky eater with a spinal problem.

I managed to get 2 tarpaulins for a £1 each put down opposite ends of the room, Bonnie normally eats there but Londo is usually fed outside.

Gave Bonnie Chicken quarter after hubby had chopped it and checked that the bones did bend! Gave Londo his chicken quarter on the taup.

Bonnie straight away began to crush her chicken, she has no front teeth, well they are so small almost invivsble, but she took to it like it was natural. I guess is was.

Londo licked his chicken and stood looking at it as if he was not sure what to do. Then silly mum remembers Londo always has to say please for his food, so Londo say please, Woof and he starts to eat.

Bonnie is happily crunching away no problems, Londo tries to drag his into the kitchen a couple of times so I grab a towel spread it on the taup and tell him bed, he curls up and eats the chicken slowly, luxurously but no problem.

When Bonnies gets a bit small I hang on to it so she cant gulp, and eventually think she can swallow that but the little sweet heart continued to squash the food and did not gulp at all.

Londo took a lot longer to finish and i ended up taking the chickens foot off him an binning it just to be on the safe side but all in all a great success.

I expected londo to sick his back up as well, because he sometimes does this, but over two hours now and no problems.

I just wanted to post this to hopefully reassure those in the same boat I was in.

Hugs
Caroline, Bonnie and Londo

---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (17)
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17. NEW to group, new 4 month old chocolate puppy/male , now already 30.
Posted by: "beth" bhscarlett@yahoo.com bhscarlett
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 5:12 am ((PDT))

I need all the help and advise that I can get on his diet foods, and
anyone's expertise and advise would greatly be appreciated. He is itchy
and allergic, and nothing seems to help, please help me,, that is one
of the main reasons that I have joined . thanking you in advance, I
remain,, Beth and puppy Moka

Messages in this topic (1)
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18. Deer Season
Posted by: "Donna" donnad2998@yahoo.com donnad2998
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 6:39 am ((PDT))

Now that deer season is approachig a lot of my friends deer hunt. I
know when they get a deer they gut it out and bury the stuff in the
woods. What should I ask them to save of that and is it ok to my GD
100 Pounds to have the deer legs. I guess an easy answer is what is
NOT good from the deer. (Which bones) Do I have to freeze deer before
they eat it? If so for how long? I am not a deer meat eater so I have
never dealt with deer before now.
We have been on RAW a since August and it seems so much longer than
that. What a beautiful dog I have now. Thank you everyone on here for
all the wonderful advise you give and for taking the time to answer
all the questions.
Donna, KC and Shiloh

Messages in this topic (1)
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