[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12106

There are 20 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Are pork ribs tips safe?
From: Andrea

2a. Re: raw meat only
From: woofwoofgrrl

3a. Re: How often can I expect poop?
From: Andrea
3b. Re: How often can I expect poop?
From: nlhp4

4. Updates?
From: woofwoofgrrl

5a. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
From: carnesbill

6a. Re: Dog Sick to Stomach
From: Andrea
6b. Re: Dog Sick to Stomach
From: Giselle

7a. scared newbie
From: c.bednar
7b. Re: scared newbie
From: Maofryan@aol.com
7c. Re: scared newbie
From: Brandi Bryant
7d. Re: scared newbie
From: Teri Platt

8a. Adding on to Supplement Question
From: nlhp4

9.1. Salmon Oil
From: carolejc2007

10a. Re: 911-PLEASE HELP
From: Maiakitas@aol.com

11a. Re: Dry Skin but Feeding Raw
From: Sarah Retzer

12.1. Re: New to raw
From: Teri Platt

13a. First day: throw up, please advice
From: morales4758
13b. Re: First day: throw up, please advice
From: Casey Post
13c. Re: First day: throw up, please advice
From: Andrea

Messages
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1a. Re: Are pork ribs tips safe?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 3:33 am ((PDT))

A lot of times smaller dogs need more than the general 2% to maintain, so don't worry too
much right now about how much they "should" eat. Feed big food and when you feel like
they have had enough or dog forbid they walk away from it, pick it up and put it back in the
fridge. My sis has a chi that gorges himself when he stays with me (probably because he has
to eat doom nuggets at home) so I have to keep an eye on him while he eats. The best thing
you can do is feed big stuff that is difficult for them to eat so it takes them a while to actually
get their food down. You can weigh the food before and after feeding time if you want to
determine how much they are eating, or you can wing it and pick up food earlier if they start
getting too big.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Garnaat" <cgar88@...> wrote:

> Thank you for the response. With my 12lb daschund, 2% is just under 4oz of raw per day.
Divided into 2 meals, that is 2oz of raw each meal. How do I feed bigger than their head and
keep the amount down to their daily allowance?

Messages in this topic (6)
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2a. Re: raw meat only
Posted by: "woofwoofgrrl" cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com woofwoofgrrl
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 3:33 am ((PDT))

> Rather than devalue the term, let us look at the methods behind the so-
> called study, and evaluate each for its method.

This is why I love this list!!!
Ah, If only more people were critical thinkers.....
what a wonderful world this would be!

Christine

Messages in this topic (10)
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3a. Re: How often can I expect poop?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 3:33 am ((PDT))

You might be overestimating how much your pupster is going to weigh. For now let him
eat as much as he will and if he starts losing weight you can worry about getting him to
eat more. You don't want a fat little puglet. My bigger dogs poo once a day at the most.
When starting out some dogs go a while without poos, so don't worry at all. It will be a
little while before you can determine what is normal for your dog.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "rareimer1979" <rareimer@...> wrote:
>
> A sentence I never thought I would type...LOL.
>
> My Pug is 8 weeks old, and is just starting raw (I got him on
> Saturday.) He is liking it so far, though he is still figuring out
> how to eat it, so is probably not eating close to the 2-3% of adult
> body weight yet. i figure he should have about 1/2 lb. a day,
> according to that calculation, but he's probably averaging more like
> 1/8 lb. a day, over 3 or 4 meals. i think i might start grinding a
> bit of it for him until he's bigger. so far, i've had to cut it up
> into chunks because he just doesn't "get" how to eat the bigger
> pieces. or at least cut it up into smaller pieces than i am, to see
> if he can eat more that way.
>
> My main question is, that in the 3 days since I've had him, he's only
> pooped 3 times

Messages in this topic (4)
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3b. Re: How often can I expect poop?
Posted by: "nlhp4" nlhp4@yahoo.com nlhp4
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 6:12 am ((PDT))

>i know raw-fed dogs poop less, so how MUCH less?

Hi Robyn,
Personal experience and how much you say you are feeding your
youngster suggests that he may only have a bowel movement once a
day. But of course, this will vary on your dog and how often he is
fed.

My English Springer Spaniel, Trinity, sometimes goes a day or two
with nothing. She sometimes gets constipated too so watch for that
too in your pup; a little canned or fresh pumpkin usually fixes the
constipation issue if you are concerned about this. My lab mix,
Titan, you can set your watch by his bathroom breaks. He gets fed
twice per day and goes potty twice per day. Both of my dogs are 13
months old now so we have our bathroom routine down to a science.

In comparison to k***le both dogs have fewer bowel movements and are
easier to pick up after. For the housetraining two suggestions: 1)
feed him, have him relax for 45 to 60 minutes then take him for a
nice long walk. As soon as he goes potty give him the most exciting
praise ever, this prevented the accidents in the house for both of my
dogs. 2) This was used on Titan before Trinity came into our lives,
take him out about 30-45 mintues after feeding. If he doesn't potty,
he goes back in the house and gets ignored (no playing, no praise).
Then take him out again 10 minutes later, if he potties there are BIG
praises, if he doesn't then again he gets ignored. Keep this up
until he gets the idea that the potty right away results in the
praise and affection he is looking for.

Good luck!

-Sibyl

Messages in this topic (4)
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4. Updates?
Posted by: "woofwoofgrrl" cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com woofwoofgrrl
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 3:33 am ((PDT))

Any updates on the Frenchie who choked or the dog who ate the avacado pit?

Christine

Messages in this topic (1)
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5a. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 3:35 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:
>
> When feeding my Great Dane 1/2 a small chicken I leave the wing
> on. This is ok?

Yes.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (16)
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6a. Re: Dog Sick to Stomach
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 3:35 am ((PDT))

My first thought is to point to the onion. I have a vague recollection that onions are bad
for dogs, but I can't back that up. How much liver did you feed? A hunk of liver could
have upset your pup's tummy, liver is best introduced slowly.

Tummy aches usually don't last long, my oldest, Geiger, moped around for a day after a
disasterous encounter with a whole monkfish, but after the 24 hours he was fine. For
stomach irritaitons you can give some Slippery Elm which I'm sure Giselle will chime in
about. In these tummy upset situations I usually skip a meal and then give an easy meal
like bone in chicken breast to make sure all is good.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Virginia Snider" <vsnider@...> wrote:

> He had turkey which he has been fine on and threw up a little bit.
> Tonight he had cow liver and chicken which he has been fine on, and just
> now, about 4 hours after dinner threw up 3 times and it was a lot. His poop
> tonight was formed but a bit wet, but, otherwise he is drinking water,
> playing and seems fine. My DH confessed he gave him a bite of onions and
> zucchini - I knew he slid him an onion since he was stinkin' up the house.
> Since I didn't do the liver, DH said he thought it was a bit slimy -
> although it is fresh it's from a different source than his usual meat it
> didn't smell off but it did look different/darker.

Messages in this topic (3)
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6b. Re: Dog Sick to Stomach
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 4:13 am ((PDT))

Hi, Virginia!
Maybe the combination didn't sit well with him. Maybe you
fed too much liver for his digestive capacity. Maybe it just wasn't
sitting well. Dogs don't have the niceties about horking that we do.
What isn't right, comes up. Did he eat it again? You should let him
decide if he wants to. No sense wasting good food.

Maybe the zucchini and onion or the oil it was sauteed in, or the
spices that were on it didn't agree.

Onion isn't good for dogs, but you have to feed quite a bit for some
time before they show any effect, I think.
http://www.jlhweb.net/Boxermap/onions.html

If you've only had the one episode, don't push the panic button quite yet.

Unless the horking escalates or continues, I don't think any special
diet or SEBP is called for. just be more cautious, feed smaller
amounts of organ, don't overdo the liver, and feed single proteins at
one meal, at least for now.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> My Pug Rio, 11 mos & 22 pounds - but a tall slim handsome
laddie, has
> been on raw about a month now. He's been doing really well so far
although
> I still have to sear the meat and the size of the "chunks" are getting
> bigger. until yesterday.
>
> He had turkey which he has been fine on and threw up a little bit.
> Tonight he had cow liver and chicken which he has been fine on, and just
> now, about 4 hours after dinner threw up 3 times and it was a lot.
<snip>
> How long can this "barfie phase" last before I get worried? Is there
> something I can feed him that is less irritating on his tummy till
he gets
> over this? So far I thought I was lucky.

> TIA,

> Virginia

Messages in this topic (3)
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7a. scared newbie
Posted by: "c.bednar" itsagilitytime@aol.com c.bednar
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 4:07 am ((PDT))

Hello all, I posted the scared about bones question and I appreciate
the advice and support of this group. However the frenchie and the
great dane that choked have got me scared again. Does anyone smash or
break up the bones before giving to there dogs? How do I know if my
dogs are chewing the bones enough to not cause damage? Thanks to all
that reply. Carmie

Messages in this topic (4)
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7b. Re: scared newbie
Posted by: "Maofryan@aol.com" Maofryan@aol.com waldorfsarah
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 4:19 am ((PDT))

Carmie

I have been feeding raw for 13 years....20+ dogs a day....none of that
has happened to me. Boarders eat it...dogs in for breeding eat it...rescues
eat it. If you're that scared...don't do it. or, JUST do it. I was concerned
the first week...after that I forgot about it. Everyone loves to eat, and
looks great....yada yada. There will always be someone somewhere with
something to scare you about anything and everything. The decision is yours. Sarah
Waldorf Konigsdorf Shepherds

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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Messages in this topic (4)
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7c. Re: scared newbie
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 5:42 am ((PDT))

>>> Does anyone smash or
break up the bones before giving to there dogs? How do I know if my
dogs are chewing the bones enough to not cause damage? Thanks to all
that reply. Carmie<<<<

Carmie, relax. Take deep breath! What are you feeding? Chicken, pork or
turkey? I have a GS puppy that's just 6 months old and I kinda understand
you being scared about your dogs just swallowing bones, my pup does it to,
she's nevers choked though. And I've seen her just last night give to
chomps to a drumstick leg and down it went! If you're that worried about
feed them a whole something, where they have to actually work at it, feed a
half of a chicken, feed a whole pork should with bone it - I let my dog
clean the bone off but then I throw the bone away. And I find that if I
stand there and watch it scares you more, give them the meal and go sit down
and if it make you feel better go sit down somewhere where you can hear
them.

Brandi
Bartlesville, OK

On 10/2/07, c.bednar <itsagilitytime@aol.com> wrote:
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Messages in this topic (4)
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7d. Re: scared newbie
Posted by: "Teri Platt" teribean7481@yahoo.com teribean7481
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 6:33 am ((PDT))

I completely understand your fear and it is understandable especially when you hear that someone elses dog has choked. I am new to raw feeding as well and I have gone to several talks and I'll tell you what this wonderful women told me. Relax, follow your gut , and do what is right for you. Start small and when your comfortable take the next step. The best thing about this diet is that you learn so much from them, and about them. You will know you dog better then anyone. You'll know if their a gulper or a chewer and you can go from there. If crushing the bones at first helps you then go for it, at best his a chewer and you'll see that he does fine and you'll be able to feel comfortable not doing it anymore and at worst his a gulper that will learn the importance of chewing, but is safe in the meantime. Dogs are amazing animals and in the end I am sure he will amaze even you. Good Luck and happy feeding.

Teri

"c.bednar" <itsagilitytime@aol.com> wrote: Hello all, I posted the scared about bones question and I appreciate
the advice and support of this group. However the frenchie and the
great dane that choked have got me scared again. Does anyone smash or
break up the bones before giving to there dogs? How do I know if my
dogs are chewing the bones enough to not cause damage? Thanks to all
that reply. Carmie

---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

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Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. Adding on to Supplement Question
Posted by: "nlhp4" nlhp4@yahoo.com nlhp4
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 5:40 am ((PDT))

OK, so after extensive research and lots of opinion both from this
group and friends here is my next question.

Both dogs, Titan and Trinity, eat a TON of grass and anything else
they can that is green or even the crab apples on the ground.
General census from the vet and others is that this grass eathing is
their natural "wolf" instinct to find the digestive enzymes needed to
digest some of the raw food they are fed, and some nutrients as well.
I live in a city where grass and crab apples may not always be their
best form of getting what they are missing as I can not control what
these things are treated with, so now what can I give them to help
them feel more balanced?

I have tried human vegetables like peas and carrots (raw) but they
seem to come out the other end exactly how they went in so I don't
think they are getting what they need there, not to mention the grass
eating hasn't gotten any better.

Thus far I have been recommended with a barley or other form of grass
supplement type thing that can be fed as a treat or with the meal.

Anyone have any other suggestions on what to give them to appease
their need for grass and crab apples other than moving to the country
so they can eat grass? :-)

Thanks!
Sibyl

Messages in this topic (9)
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9.1. Salmon Oil
Posted by: "carolejc2007" mooska2me@sbcglobal.net carolejc2007
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 5:41 am ((PDT))

Hi all! I love this site; it is SO informative! I have a question
about salmon oil. I bought some capsules last night (I believe they
are 1000 mgs. per capsule). My questions are:

1. Do I feed salmon oil every day, once a week or what?
2. How many mgs. or capsules do I feed at a time (per body weight)?
3. For those of you who use the salmon oil capsules, do you actually
feed the capsules or do you squirt the contents on the meat?

My dogs are into their 3rd week on raw meat and are doing greyt! 8-))

Carole (Mom of 2 Greyhounds and 2 Italian Greys)

Messages in this topic (73)
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10a. Re: 911-PLEASE HELP
Posted by: "Maiakitas@aol.com" Maiakitas@aol.com maiakitas
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 6:11 am ((PDT))

Hi,

Is there any news on the condition of the Frenchie baby? I wish her and her
owner well. She was in all of the Akita prayers last night. :o)

Warm Regards,
Carla

**************************************
See what's new at

http://www.aol.com

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Messages in this topic (25)
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11a. Re: Dry Skin but Feeding Raw
Posted by: "Sarah Retzer" s_retzer@yahoo.com s_retzer
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 6:12 am ((PDT))

Thanks everyone for the great advice. I will pass on the info.
She is feeding a blend that she buys from a local health petfood store. I don't know the ratio offhand but I'll have a look. I'm sure with all the great advice we can figure out what the issue is!

Sarah

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Messages in this topic (5)
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12.1. Re: New to raw
Posted by: "Teri Platt" teribean7481@yahoo.com teribean7481
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 6:13 am ((PDT))

Thank you

Teri

Tracy Meal <hiddenpoetinme1@yahoo.com> wrote: Hi New to raw,

You wrote:
I am getting ready to start my 9 month old Bouvier on raw. Can any one
give me some advice on the best and most economical way/places to buy
meat. I do have a very large deep freezer for storage.

I live in the Chicago area, I get my meat from local grocery stores on sale. There is also a meat packing plant in the city with great prices and I can get bulk quantities to freeze.

Tracy

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Messages in this topic (45)
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13a. First day: throw up, please advice
Posted by: "morales4758" morales4758@yahoo.com morales4758
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 6:15 am ((PDT))

Today I feed my lab (7 years) with chicken(drumsticks) without to much
meat. I took away some meat.
He throw up a few minutes later and the bones were very sharp
Any advice?
Please

Messages in this topic (3)
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13b. Re: First day: throw up, please advice
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 6:23 am ((PDT))

> Today I feed my lab (7 years) with chicken(drumsticks) without to much
> meat. I took away some meat.
> He throw up a few minutes later and the bones were very sharp

Um, why would you reduce the meat? Drumsticks are too bony on their own and
then you took away meat, which made them even bonier! Advice? More MEAT.

Casey

Messages in this topic (3)
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13c. Re: First day: throw up, please advice
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 6:44 am ((PDT))

Drumsticks are pretty low on the meat end of the spectrum in the first
place without taking more meat off. You want to be feeding mostly meat
with a little bone right now (about 80%/10%), so by all means feed
meatier.

Also, drumsticks are waay too small for a lab. I wouldn't be surprised
if the dog swallowed them basically whole, and swallowing whole is
asking for a choking scare. Newbie Labs shouldn't be fed anything
smaller than a chicken quarter at first.

So, next time you feed: Feed bigger, feed meatier. A chicken quarter
will take more work to eat and it has more meat on it. Your best bet
is to head to the store and get some whole chickens to quarter at home.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "morales4758" <morales4758@...>
wrote:
>
> Today I feed my lab (7 years) with chicken(drumsticks) without to
> much meat. I took away some meat.
> He throw up a few minutes later and the bones were very sharp

Messages in this topic (3)
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