[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12104

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Feeding Amounts
From: krystal_brr
1b. Re: Feeding Amounts
From: Loraine Jesse
1c. Re: Feeding Amounts
From: Laura Atkinson
1d. Re: Feeding Amounts
From: costrowski75
1e. Re: Feeding Amounts
From: carnesbill
1f. Re: Feeding Amounts
From: Loraine Jesse

2a. Re: How much raw egg?
From: Tina Berry
2b. Re: How much raw egg?
From: costrowski75

3a. help on feeding fish
From: sfed57
3b. Re: help on feeding fish
From: costrowski75

4a. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
From: Tina Berry
4b. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
From: Laura Atkinson
4c. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
From: sfed57
4d. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
From: Gail Edmond
4e. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
From: costrowski75
4f. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
From: carnesbill

5a. Re: Shedding on raw
From: Tina Berry

6a. Re: Are pork ribs tips safe?
From: Carol Garnaat

7a. Re: runns in house & gagging
From: Carol Garnaat
7b. Re: runns in house & gagging
From: Shannon Hully

8a. Diseases in deer/rabbit meat?
From: trayc2244
8b. Re: Diseases in deer/rabbit meat?
From: carnesbill

9a. Re: 911-PLEASE HELP
From: delcaste

10a. Re: FREECYCLE (was: Cheap meat)
From: Shannon Hully

11a. Re: Frustrated and cannot find any answers -I'm In The Same Boat
From: Maiakitas@aol.com

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Feeding Amounts
Posted by: "krystal_brr" rkbarr@hughes.net krystal_brr
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 3:41 pm ((PDT))

Hi! My name is Krystal and I have been reading all the posts for a
couple of weeks now. I appreciate all the info and encouragement. I
have 2 Rhodesian Ridgebacks. My male, Titus is 17 months and weighs
just under 90lbs, and my female, Mino is going to be 2 in two weeks and
weighs 65lbs. I show Titus in confirmation and then both do obedience
and agility(well, when Mino feels like it she joins us) and lure
coursing.

I have read multiple times about the 2-3% of their weight for amounts
and the 80%meat, 10%bone, 10%organ, but I am a "put tab A in slot B"
kind of person so I was wondering if someone with approx the same size
dogs could tell me what their weekly meals look like? It just seems
like a lot of bone to give Titus half a chicken, or do you give the
chicken with chunks of other meat? I am just struggling to
conceptualize what 10% bone looks like?

Also, if we are going to be doing coursing and they are burning alot of
calories, is their a rule for how much to increase their protein
intake? Or is that another one of those things I'll have to figure out
as I go along?

Thanks again for the help,
Krystal
ridgebacks are like potato chips, you can't have just one!

Messages in this topic (9)
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1b. Re: Feeding Amounts
Posted by: "Loraine Jesse" rothburg@hotmail.com loraine_jesse
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 4:48 pm ((PDT))

Hi Krystal,
I had to smile when I read your post about too much bone. Here I am worried that 80 % meat and 10 % bone is not going to be enough calcuim for a growing, large breed puppy. Keep in mind when I started off feeding raw with Billinghurst, he was the raw God, so it can get very confusing. What helped me past this was thinking of a whole rabbit, the funny thing is I have never fed my dog's rabbit. I too would like to hear sample menues, say for a week, that you would feed a pup. Sometimes it is all so simple and easy that I think I must be missing something <grin>.
I really appreciate the patience and guidence of people in this group.
Loraine Jesse
rothburg@xplornet.com
www.rothburgrottweilers.com

To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.comFrom: rkbarr@hughes.netDate: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 22:15:57 +0000Subject: [rawfeeding] Feeding Amounts

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Messages in this topic (9)
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1c. Re: Feeding Amounts
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 4:50 pm ((PDT))

Here's an example of what Robin gets over the course of a few days:

Breakfast - a hunk of whatever meat is in the fridge drawer (usually left
overs from dogs' dinner the night before)
Dinner - a hunk of whatever is being served + organs

The hunks include: beef heart, pork heart, chicken quarters, fish, tripe,
turkey thighs, turkey necks, etc. She gets edible bone at least 2 days a
week (just works out that way).

On 10/1/07, Loraine Jesse <rothburg@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Krystal,
> I had to smile when I read your post about too much bone. Here I am
> worried that 80 % meat and 10 % bone is not going to be enough calcuim for a
> growing, large breed puppy. Keep in mind when I started off feeding raw with
> Billinghurst, he was the raw God, so it can get very confusing. What helped
> me past this was thinking of a whole rabbit, the funny thing is I have never
> fed my dog's rabbit. I too would like to hear sample menues, say for a week,
> that you would feed a pup. Sometimes it is all so simple and easy that I
> think I must be missing something <grin>.
> I really appreciate the patience and guidence of people in this group.
> Loraine Jesse
> rothburg@xplornet.com
> www.rothburgrottweilers.com
>

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: Feeding Amounts
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 5:34 pm ((PDT))

Loraine Jesse <rothburg@...> wrote:
I too would like to hear sample menues, say for a week, that you
would feed a pup. Sometimes it is all so simple and easy that I think
I must be missing something <grin>.
*****
I think that's part of why the books make it so hard. WHO would pay
good money for a book whose entire message is "Get a chicken. Feed
it."?

In order for the book to sell, the author has to be credentialed and
the concept has to have enough, ahem, meat on it to make the
expenditure worth it. If there's no "unique selling proposition",
there's no hook, there's nothing new, there's no reason to buy the
book. Think of the humbug wizard in the Wizard of Oz: at the end, he
was able to identify in the characters the attributes they'd spent
most of the movie looking for. A good species appropriate raw diet
removes the humbug from the feeding plan.

My BC had her year birthday yesterday. I fed her three times a day
til she was four months, then two times until she was 10 months, then
once a day. When she somewhat older she'll go to Big Food several
times a week. When she was quite young she ate a pound a day, now
she's good and holding steady at less than that, settling at 31-32
pounds.

She eats chicken quarters, half game hen, rabbit; hunks of beef,
lamb, pork, venison, goat, turkey, salmon, cod, whiting, pollock; and
although she does little serious damage to the bone, she also works
on pork shoulders, lamb shanks, lamb shoulders and lamb brisket.

About half her meals include bone: three or four a week. She also
gets one SO cap a day, cow feet to mess with, some table scraps and
whatever the cat doesn't eat.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
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1e. Re: Feeding Amounts
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 8:11 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "krystal_brr" <rkbarr@...> wrote:
>
> I have read multiple times about the 2-3% of their weight
> for amounts
> and the 80%meat, 10%bone, 10%organ, but I am a "put tab A in
> slot B"
> kind of person so I was wondering if someone with approx the
> same size
> dogs could tell me what their weekly meals look like?

Hey Krystal,
I think you are going to have to readjust your thought patterns when
it comes to raw feeding. Raw feeding dogs is much more free flowing
and fluid with almost no hard and fast rules. You don't find any
two people on earth who feed their dogs exactly the same way. Like
the rest of us you will have to develop your own procedures and
methods.

First thing, forget the 2% to 3% thing. Your dogs are much more
active than the average dog. They will probably need more food.
You judge by their build. If they start looking thin, feed more ...
if they start looking fat, feed less. It's that simple.

> It just seems
> like a lot of bone to give Titus half a chicken, or do you
> give the
> chicken with chunks of other meat? I am just struggling to
> conceptualize what 10% bone looks like?

Forget 10% bone. You will overstress yourself trying to feed that.
Don't worry about any percentages or ratios. If you feed a vareity
of animal parts from a variety of animals you will automatically get
the correct balance over time. This meal might be too boney ...
next meal may have no bone at all. There is nothing magic about 10%
bone. Its an arbitrary number someone came up with and others
grabbed hold of. You will notice no difference in your dogs if you
feed them 25% bone. My dog's diets are probably much closer to 25%
bone than 10% ... probably over 25%. I don't even try to guess.
They are healthy so I don't care.

> Also, if we are going to be doing coursing and they are
> burning alot of
> calories, is their a rule for how much to increase their protein
> intake? Or is that another one of those things I'll have
> to figure out
> as I go along?

The rule says "yes, you will probably have to feed more." And yes
its something you will have to figure out yourself. No two dogs are
alike. No one can tell you a magic number. There is no magic
number. I wouldn't worry about feeding them just more protein.
Just feed them more period. Whatever it takes to maintain a good
body build and weight. It will probably vary over time.

It's not nearly as difficult as feeding children. Dogs neat meat,
bones, and organs. Mostly meat, some bone and some organs. Exact
amounts aren't critical. Feed meat, bones, and organs from a
variety of animals.

Get the book "Work Wonders" by Tom Lonsdale. You may download the
book for $9.95 from http://www.ebookmall.com/ebooks-authors/tom-
lonsdale-ebooks.htm or order hard copy either at

http://www.dogwise.com or at http://www.amazon.com (cheaper).

A few informative web sites are:
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm (My web page)
http://rawfeddogs.net/

--- be sure and check the recipes page.
http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (9)
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1f. Re: Feeding Amounts
Posted by: "Loraine Jesse" rothburg@hotmail.com loraine_jesse
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 9:05 pm ((PDT))

Thank-you Chris.
Lorainewww.rothburgrottweilers.com

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Messages in this topic (9)
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________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: How much raw egg?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 3:41 pm ((PDT))

"What size dog do you give a whole egg daily?"

85-95 lbs.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (14)
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2b. Re: How much raw egg?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 5:06 pm ((PDT))

"Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> > Are there any other considerations for feeding raw eggs?
>
> IMO, just bowel tolerance.
*****
I'm with you, Andrea. Sometimes there might be gas, maybe. It is
really only about bowel tolerance. The mythologies behind whites and
eggs alone versus together and artificial limits on quantity are just
that: myths and artifice. Eggs is good.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (14)
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3a. help on feeding fish
Posted by: "sfed57" sfed57@yahoo.ca sfed57
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 3:41 pm ((PDT))

I am planning to feed my dogs some raw fish caught in the area where I
live which will mainly be lake trout and rainbow trout. I have read a
few things about tape worm in raw fish, how do I avoid this problem?
Does freezing it first get rid of the tape worm? I am in North Western
British Columbia if that helps...

Shawna

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: help on feeding fish
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 5:13 pm ((PDT))

"sfed57" <sfed57@...> wrote:
>
> I am planning to feed my dogs some raw fish caught in the area where
I
> live which will mainly be lake trout and rainbow trout. I have read
a
> few things about tape worm in raw fish, how do I avoid this problem?
> Does freezing it first get rid of the tape worm? I am in North
Western
> British Columbia if that helps...
*****
Salmonids (which includes salmon, steelhead and trout) from the Pacific
Northwest may harbor the rickettsia parasite which can be fatal to
canines (not humans, not cats). Freezing these fish for a week after
they've frozen solid will kill the parasite.

If you are concerned, don't feed them raw. And don't feed them cooked
unless you can absolutely pluck out all the bones.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 3:42 pm ((PDT))

"Even though the groceries in my remote town are very expensive, I will
still save money by switching to raw,"

Also check with local butchers, friends/family who hunt, etc. Wild game is
IMO the best for them, venison, elk, turkey, moose, etc.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (11)
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4b. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 3:49 pm ((PDT))

You think that seems weird? My 7 mo old SIberian Husky female (who should
top out around 36-38lbs, based on how big I think she's going to be) eats as
much as my 23 1/2", 62 lb Siberian Husky male!

Start with "something" (her estimated ideal weight) but be prepared to
adjust as needed. :-)

On 10/1/07, sfed57 <sfed57@yahoo.ca> wrote:
I have two Siberian Huskys. Ruby is a ten month old female about
47lbs and my Raven is a five month old female I think about 15-
20lbs. My question is do I feed Raven 2-3% of her ideal ADULT
weight? In this case, I would be feeding my two dogs the same amount
even though one is full grown and one is still a little puppy? Also,
their weight should be between 35-50lbs so do I just average at
around 42 lbs for the ideal weight?

Any advice would be much appreciated, thanks so much,

Shawna

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying
on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated
with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You
agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal
responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats,
ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't
agree, please unsubscribe immediately.
Yahoo! Groups Links

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________

4c. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
Posted by: "sfed57" sfed57@yahoo.ca sfed57
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 4:07 pm ((PDT))

MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!

Hahaha, that sounds just what Raven will be like! Ruby was always a
light eater, and only eats at feeding time now that we have Raven.
Raven on the other hand is an absolute cow and I dont think she would
stop eating if the food never ran out! She finishes her meals twice
as fast as Ruby and sits and waits to see if Ruby will leave any
behind for her!

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Laura Atkinson" <llatkinson@...>
wrote:
>
> You think that seems weird? My 7 mo old SIberian Husky female (who
should
> top out around 36-38lbs, based on how big I think she's going to
be) eats as
> much as my 23 1/2", 62 lb Siberian Husky male!
>
> Start with "something" (her estimated ideal weight) but be prepared
to
> adjust as needed. :-)
>
>
> On 10/1/07, sfed57 <sfed57@...> wrote:
> I have two Siberian Huskys. Ruby is a ten month old female about
> 47lbs and my Raven is a five month old female I think about 15-
> 20lbs. My question is do I feed Raven 2-3% of her ideal ADULT
> weight? In this case, I would be feeding my two dogs the same
amount
> even though one is full grown and one is still a little puppy?
Also,
> their weight should be between 35-50lbs so do I just average at
> around 42 lbs for the ideal weight?
>
> Any advice would be much appreciated, thanks so much,
>
> Shawna
>
>
>
> All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By
staying
> on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or
associated
> with this list liable for any information posted through this
list. You
> agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for
personal
> responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your
dogs, cats,
> ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you
don't
> agree, please unsubscribe immediately.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Laura A
> Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
> Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
> Bertrand Russell
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________

4d. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
Posted by: "Gail Edmond" windybond1@yahoo.co.uk windybond1
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 4:27 pm ((PDT))

Hi

Need help trying to raw feed have been doing so for about three months now, trouble is i have had a chicken wing down for three days now and it is left untouched by both my dogs. I have chopped the meat up into small portions and left the bone with a bit of meat on. Keep replacing with fresh every day. I put Omega three on do you think that is what is putting them off also would like some advice on what other foods to feed. Get cut offs from the butchers, chicken from the supermarket human grade but they are both so fussy. My boy dog Bobby has dry skin so would like any help with that. My girl has a lovely silky shiney coat but they are both so skinny. Cos i dont really know what i am doing i am frightened i may be doing them some harm. I leave a bowl of Burns down just in case they prefer it but they wont touch it. I know you all disagree with kibble but i dont want them to starve so try everything at the moment. HELP.

Gail

----- Original Message ----
From: sfed57 <sfed57@yahoo.ca>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 1 October, 2007 11:58:09 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner

MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!

Hahaha, that sounds just what Raven will be like! Ruby was always a
light eater, and only eats at feeding time now that we have Raven.
Raven on the other hand is an absolute cow and I dont think she would
stop eating if the food never ran out! She finishes her meals twice
as fast as Ruby and sits and waits to see if Ruby will leave any
behind for her!

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogro ups.com, "Laura Atkinson" <llatkinson@ ...>
wrote:
>
> You think that seems weird? My 7 mo old SIberian Husky female (who
should
> top out around 36-38lbs, based on how big I think she's going to
be) eats as
> much as my 23 1/2", 62 lb Siberian Husky male!
>
> Start with "something" (her estimated ideal weight) but be prepared
to
> adjust as needed. :-)
>
>
> On 10/1/07, sfed57 <sfed57@...> wrote:
> I have two Siberian Huskys. Ruby is a ten month old female about
> 47lbs and my Raven is a five month old female I think about 15-
> 20lbs. My question is do I feed Raven 2-3% of her ideal ADULT
> weight? In this case, I would be feeding my two dogs the same
amount
> even though one is full grown and one is still a little puppy?
Also,
> their weight should be between 35-50lbs so do I just average at
> around 42 lbs for the ideal weight?
>
> Any advice would be much appreciated, thanks so much,
>
> Shawna
>
>
>
> All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By
staying
> on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or
associated
> with this list liable for any information posted through this
list. You
> agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for
personal
> responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your
dogs, cats,
> ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you
don't
> agree, please unsubscribe immediately.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Laura A
> Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossibe rians.com
> Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
> Bertrand Russell
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it
now.
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________

4e. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 5:00 pm ((PDT))

"sfed57" <sfed57@...> wrote:
>I
> currently have to drive two and a half hours to buy the food I'm
> feeding them (which, for K**ble standars is very good, it is made
> locally with human quality chicken, locally cought whitfish and
> salmon, other meats, and absolutly no carbs)and a 30lbs bag cost me
> $65 and only last two and a half weeks!!
*****
Information please!
I assume this bag o' stuff you are feeding is not kibble, given that
it has no carbs I don't see how it can be; but if it is kibble, might
you tell me/us the name? You can email me privately if you'd
prefer. I ask because in order for kibble to be kibble it must have
some base, and if the base isn't carb, I don't know how they do it!
OTOH, if what you're buying is frozen or freeze-dried or dehydrated,
never mind. My mistake.

Raven is a five month old female I think about 15-
> 20lbs. My question is do I feed Raven 2-3% of her ideal ADULT
> weight?
*****
Yes, her anticipated ideal adult weight.

In this case, I would be feeding my two dogs the same amount
> even though one is full grown and one is still a little puppy?
*****
Except to adjust for individual need, yup, you be right.

Also,
> their weight should be between 35-50lbs so do I just average at
> around 42 lbs for the ideal weight?
*****
Sure. It's just a starting place anyway. You will adjust up and
down throughout the dogs' lives, so getting started is job one.
Figuring out what works best for each dog is on-going so you got time.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________

4f. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 8:10 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Gail Edmond <windybond1@...>
wrote:
>
> Need help trying to raw feed have been doing so for about
> three months now, trouble is i have had a chicken wing down
> for three days now and it is left untouched by both my dogs.

I don't think you mean your dogs haven't eaten for 3 months. What
else are you feeding? What did they eat before the last 3 days?
Did they eat fine and just stop 3 days ago? What kind of dogs are
they? age? size?

> I have chopped the meat up into small portions and left the
> bone with a bit of meat on.

Chicken wings are small before you chopped them up. Chicken wings
are too small to feed any but the very smallest of dogs. I feed
wings only to my cats.

> Keep replacing with fresh every
> day.

No need to. I sometimes feed my dogs meat that is a week old or
more.

> I put Omega three on do you think that is what is
> putting them off also would like some advice on what other
> foods to feed.

If you started putting it on 3 days ago, I would guess that is your
problem. Feed whole chickens, half chickens, chicken quarters,
chicken backs, chicken breasts, any part of the turkey, pork roasts
and rib racks and necks, beef rib racks and boneless roasts,
occasional ground beef, beef heart, any part of a lamb, any part of
a deer, any organ from any animal, whole rabbits, quail, squirrel.

> Get cut offs from the butchers, chicken from
> the supermarket human grade but they are both so fussy.

They are fussy for one reason ... you allow them to be. Put the
food down. After 10 minutes of no interest take it back up and feed
exactly the same thing next meal. Repeat the process until they eat
it. They will learn that they eat what you put down or they don't
eat. It is their choice. They will NOT starve. You must be strong
and take responsibility for your dog's diets.

> My boy dog Bobby has dry skin so would like any help with that.

Get them eating a good varied diet first, then worry about dry skin.

> My girl has a lovely silky shiney coat but they are both
> so skinny.

Within reason, skinny is good. Since I can't see them, I don't know
what to tell you about that. There may be another problem like
parasites.

> Cos i dont really know what i am doing i am frightened i may
> be doing them some harm.

I doubt you are doing them any harm. Were they eating good before
the last 3 days?

> I leave a bowl of Burns down just in case they prefer it but
> they wont touch it.

I don't know what "burns" are but don't give them access to any food
except meals until they start eating correctly.

> I know you all disagree with kibble but i dont want them to
> starve so try everything at the moment.

If you think there is a health problem, have them checked out. If
only one of the dogs was acting like this, I would be more inclined
towards a health problem but not both of them. A healthy dog will
not allow himself to starve if there is food available.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (11)
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5a. Re: Shedding on raw
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 3:42 pm ((PDT))

"My dogs are shedding like the dickens now. Anyone have any idea what's
going on and what I can do to help alleviate it? I do give them fish oils in
(as per the dosages recommended here) their diet 2-3 times a week. "

I give my gsds, 85-95lbs, 4 fish oil caps daily, they still blow their coats
spring/fall but it sure helps on the shedding in general.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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Messages in this topic (4)
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6a. Re: Are pork ribs tips safe?
Posted by: "Carol Garnaat" cgar88@ameritech.net sewnchine
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 5:10 pm ((PDT))

Hi Gieselle,
Thank you for the response. With my 12lb daschund, 2% is just under 4oz of raw per day. Divided into 2 meals, that is 2oz of raw each meal. How do I feed bigger than their head and keep the amount down to their daily allowance?

With my 8.5lb Yorkie, her meal allowance is 1/5oz and she wants MORE! I think she would eat a piece as big as her head if allowed, LOL!

Am I figuring these amounts correctly? Neither is losing weight.
12lb x 16oz = 192oz weight x .02 = 3.84oz total daily allowance.
8.5lb x 16oz = 136oz weight x .02= 2.72oz total daily allowance.
I round these up to 4oz and 3oz.

Carol

----- Original Message -----
From: Giselle
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:17 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: Are pork ribs tips safe?

Hi, Carol!
Too small - feed food bigger than their head is a good rule
of thumb for tiny dogs, as well as big'uns.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> > Are pork rib tips safe for my small dogs, Yorkie 8.5lb, Doxie 12lb?
> > The rib bones are cut 1/2 to 3/4 inches long.
>

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Messages in this topic (4)
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7a. Re: runns in house & gagging
Posted by: "Carol Garnaat" cgar88@ameritech.net sewnchine
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 5:10 pm ((PDT))

Trina,
Please update with status of Whisper.
Carol
----- Original Message -----
From: T Smith
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] Re: runns in house & gagging

After my posting this morning, Whisper had a gran mal seizure.
We've returned from the vet but I am still very upset about a few things, I
am at work (she is with me).
Trina

--
Chip (deaf Dalmatian)
Casper (deaf Great Dane)
Whisper (deaf Great Dane)
Louie (hearing Great Dane)
Joey (deaf & blind Lhasa Apso)
Amy (disabled Lhasa Apso)
Cassandra (disabled Lhasa Apso)
Mr Paris (Lhasa Apso)
Chloe (deaf & blind Spaniel mix)
.

On 10/1/07, Andrea <poketmouse45@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Trina, I think you are being a good protective mom to your pup and
> just getting too worried about something that isn't a big deal. If
> she ate beef bone without a lot of meat to cushion it, it is likely
> she scratched her throat a little which causes her to cough. Other
> than being annoying for her, it doesn't seem to bother her much - as
> evidenced by her running around and playing as usual. FYI, though
> beef ribS are a good workout, a beef rib (single) is not usually
> recommended for anything but toy dogs since larger ones can easily
> try to swallow the whole thing. You could always take her into the
> vet so they could have a look at her throat and check for kennel
> cough just in case if it still bothers you.
>
> Everyone makes some missteps along the way, some larger than others.
> IMO this wasn't a big mistake on your part, just a learning
> experience.
>
> Andrea
>

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Messages in this topic (12)
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7b. Re: runns in house & gagging
Posted by: "Shannon Hully" summerwolf@theherbalhotline.com bluehankw
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 9:06 pm ((PDT))

Oh no, Trina! I can only imagine how you are feeling right now. :-(
My cousin had one last year and it really is a gut-wrenching
experience, both during and for a long time after. You will be in my
thoughts.

Shannon H.

>
> After my posting this morning, Whisper had a gran mal seizure.
> We've returned from the vet but I am still very upset about a few
things, I
> am at work (she is with me).

Messages in this topic (12)
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8a. Diseases in deer/rabbit meat?
Posted by: "trayc2244" BreeZ119@catt.com trayc2244
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 6:04 pm ((PDT))

I read on this group before that deer/rabbit and other wild animals
can contain diseases that can spread to dogs if it is not frozen for a
certain amount of time. Is this true? If so, how long do I need to
keep these kinds of meat frozen before I feed them? Is there any part
of wild animals that I should avoid feeding?

Thanks,
Tracy

Messages in this topic (2)
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8b. Re: Diseases in deer/rabbit meat?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 9:05 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "trayc2244" <BreeZ119@...> wrote:
>
> I read on this group before that deer/rabbit and other wild
animals
> can contain diseases that can spread to dogs if it is not frozen
> for a
> certain amount of time.

My dogs catch rabbits and squirrels from time to time and eat them
on the spot. My cats catch and eat little cirtters almost daily. I
don't worry about it.

> If so, how long do I need to
> keep these kinds of meat frozen before I feed them?

If you are concerned about it, a few weeks should be ok. Dogs have
such acidic stomach juices, I really don't worry about anything that
goes in the mouth.

> Is there
> any part
> of wild animals that I should avoid feeding?

Not that I can think of right now.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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9a. Re: 911-PLEASE HELP
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 8:08 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Doguefan@... wrote:
>
>
> I have a frenchie puppy-11 weeks that has been eating raw for two
weeks now.? She choked this morning on her usual chicken breast!?

Although I'm a Newbie, I believe I can say that the bone will digest
with a degree of certainty. Dogs have a strong acid in their stomach
that will dissolve the bone. If there is no blockage why does the vet
want to remove what's in her stomach? I would at least get a very clear
answer as to why he wants to operate.

I have pugs and because sticking your finger down their throat is not
so easy because of that fat tongue, I suggest yuo learn how to do the
Heimleich on your dog. I did and had to use it once on my gulper. I
always have to keep an eye out on the pugs because of the way they eat.
My other dogs are champs at eating but the pugs leave a lot to be
desired. Good luck with your Frenchie.

Messages in this topic (24)
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10a. Re: FREECYCLE (was: Cheap meat)
Posted by: "Shannon Hully" summerwolf@theherbalhotline.com bluehankw
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 9:03 pm ((PDT))

The two times I've put up an ad on Freecycle for meat I just said
something along the lines of:

If you have freezerburnt or old meat you were planning on throwing away
I'd love to have it! :-)

Nice and simple. I've had several people e-mail me just to ask what I
was going to do with it, at which point I say it's for my dog. I liked
that other poster's idea to say I make home-made dog food, I may use
that from now on. :-D

Shannon H.

Messages in this topic (2)
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11a. Re: Frustrated and cannot find any answers -I'm In The Same Boat
Posted by: "Maiakitas@aol.com" Maiakitas@aol.com maiakitas
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 9:04 pm ((PDT))

Megan,

You had some great ideas that I most certainly will try. The parmesan cheese
didn't work and also, he gets his food for 10 minutes and then it is gone. I
don't stand there while he eats. I never did when he ate kibble. I give the
dogs their food and do what I have to do and when I come back whoever has eaten
has eaten. Never had a problem with that. Just the Beau and raw thing taking
this "ugly" turn has me frazzled, especially with some big shows coming up in
the next couple of months. I know his health is more important than a dog show,
but you know how US show people are. You did see "Best In Show" didn't you? I
rest my case. ;o)

I had tried giving him raw as his training treat, which was an abysmal
failure, but didn't try mixing it with the high value cooked chicken and liver. Will
certainly give that a shot and the tripe and ground meat
meatballs....phew..what a combo, but I picked up about 10 lbs of ground tripe today at a natural
pet store, so I will try that until I can order more.

I donated all of my doggy kibble and treats to my local animal shelter, so it
is out of the house. The only "processed" food in the house is Innova Evo, a
no-grain food for the cat, while I am transitioning them to raw. You can't do
the starving thing with kitties.

Yes I do smile everytime I feed Beau because I am looking at the beautiful
meat he is not eating thinking, shoot I could have popped that on the grill!!

I'm going to give your ideas a try or else I'm sending him to a Raw Feeding
Boot Camp. Thanks Megan and thanks for the yahoo group although I do know who
the few other natural/raw Akita breeders are. I just have to find the right dog
for Bailey.

Warm Regards,
Carla

**************************************
See what's new at

http://www.aol.com

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