[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12099

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Puppy evaluation/admonished for feeding raw
From: Caren OConnor

2a. Re: Dry Skin but Feeding Raw
From: Giselle
2b. Re: Dry Skin but Feeding Raw
From: briargarden07

3a. Re: feeding turkey
From: Arlene Fell

4a. Re: Cheap meat
From: girlndocs

5a. Re: Is a chicken only diet OK?
From: Giselle

6a. Re: no poop is it time to panic?
From: Josephine Morningstar

7a. Re: How long to let new puppy go without food?
From: delcaste

8a. Re: Should a Pit Bull be fed a Raw Diet?
From: delcaste

9a. Re: Frustrated and cannot find any answers
From: Giselle
9b. Re: Frustrated and cannot find any answers
From: costrowski75
9c. Re: Frustrated and cannot find any answers
From: Giselle

10a. Re: Day 4 of Raw and WILD!
From: Giselle

11a. How often for different organs?
From: trayc2244
11b. Re: How often for different organs?
From: Giselle
11c. Re: How often for different organs?
From: carnesbill

12a. Different stomachs
From: trayc2244
12b. Re: Different stomachs
From: costrowski75

13a. [Raw Feeding] Fish and ? about eggs
From: Brandi Bryant
13b. Re: [Raw Feeding] Fish and ? about eggs
From: costrowski75
13c. Re: [Raw Feeding] Fish and ? about eggs
From: Morledzep@aol.com

14. New to group/introduction
From: Bethany Satterlee

15.1. Re: New Member
From: Giselle

16a. Re: First RAW WITH BONES served today!!
From: Giselle

17a. Re: Ostrich bones
From: costrowski75

Messages
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1a. Re: Puppy evaluation/admonished for feeding raw
Posted by: "Caren OConnor" cavkist@yahoo.com cavkist
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:52 pm ((PDT))

Carrie -
Over the weekend I fed a ground mix of organs, tripe, bone, etc., as I was on the road. I noticed the stool change from a lighter color to the darker color. I did reduce the amount I was feeding.
I'll try to keep in mind the 10-15% bone and monitor them. They already look a bit thinner. Maybe I was feeding too much meat.
Gosh, words can't express my appreciation. And, just to answer your question, all of the pups in the litter are fed exactly the same raw diet. The two boys don't appear to be "bowing out" like the girl. Maybe they metabolize the food differently or are more active.
Caren O'Connor
Nansemond Cavaliers

---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (19)
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2a. Re: Dry Skin but Feeding Raw
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:37 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Sarah!
You didn't say what, exactly, she is feeding. If she isn't
feeding a lot of variety, with some bone and organs, then this may be
part of the dry skin/flaky problem.

I'd recommend that she feed at the least; 3-5 different proteins on a
regular basis. Chicken, turkey, pork, beef, rabbit and fish, too, are
pretty easy to obtain. Maybe add some fattier cuts of meat to his
diet, like pork shoulder or fresh hams or tongue. If she's been
trimming visible fat and from meats, she should trim less of it
gradually, until she isn't trimming at all.

You could print out these recommendations for her, so that she can
review her feeding plan;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374

post # 141374

I would caution her to be sure the meats she buys do not have
flavoring/seasoning enhancements, nor be injected with salt solutions.
Read the labels, even the itty bitty print.

Most people feed plenty enough bone, which should only comprise 10% of
the total diet, but organs are important, too - 5% of the diet should
be liver, and another 5% should be 'other' - kidney, spleen, sweet
breads, whatever.

If she depends on grocery store meats, as so many of us do, the Omega
6s are out of balance with the Omega 3s, the O3s needing
supplementing. If, as you say, she is using a pill (? cap?) as a fish
oil supp, then I'd recommend that she might go to a better quality
Salmon or Fish Body oil, and build up a tolerance to the max
maintenance dose for the dog's weight.

http://timberwolforganics.com/pet-omega-oils

http://www.icelandpure.com/salmon_oil.htm

Each pump dispenses 1/2 a TSP.
Directions: For best results, add to your dog's food daily day or night.
Pet's Weight Up To Amount

1 - 10 lbs 1/2 tsp daily 1 pump

10 - 25 lbs 1 tsp daily 2 pumps

25 - 50 lbs 2 tsp daily 3 pumps

50 - 75 lbs 3 tsp daily 4 pumps

50 + lbs 4 tsp daily 5 pumps

http://www.grizzlypetproducts.com/salmon_oil/salmon_oil.html
http://www.grizzlypetproducts.com/dosages/dosages.html

If she addresses these concerns;
1) more variety of proteins and organs
2) no enhancements or additives in meats
3) 80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organ
4) feed some fattier animal parts
5) Supplementation with a maintenance dosage of high quality Salmon or
Fish Body oil
The dog's diet will improve, and the problem should be resolved.

That is, if there aren't any environmental causes!
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I have a friend that converted her 2 year old lab to raw this past
> June. Strangely, the dog now suffers from dry skin/dandruff. The dog
> did not have this kind of dry skin prior to the raw. She also
> mentioned though the skin is dry, the dog does NOT seem to be itchy.
>
> I don't know what to tell her as everything I know and have
> experienced myself, the fur and skin of raw animals is much improved!
>
> I realize it could be something else in the dog's environment, but
> does anyone have any experience similar to this and could make a
> suggestion on where to start investigating a solution? She mentioned
> she will switch from pill form salmon oil to liquid, but I am thinking
> there probably needs to be something else done to eliminate it entirely.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Sarah

Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: Dry Skin but Feeding Raw
Posted by: "briargarden07" briargarden07@yahoo.com briargarden07
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:46 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "s_retzer" <s_retzer@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone
>
> I have a friend that converted her 2 year old lab to raw this past
> June. Strangely, the dog now suffers from dry skin/dandruff. The dog
> did not have this kind of dry skin prior to the raw. She also
> mentioned though the skin is dry, the dog does NOT seem to be itchy.
>

My dogs sometimes get this when the diet is too high in Omega 6.
Usually this is caused not so much by feeding too much chicken, but
giving too much skin on the chicken. Since I began removing about 3/4
of the skin, my allergy prone Shepherd mix who used to have dry skin
sometimes no longer does. I also give fish oil a few times weekly.
Another thing your friend may want to try if she's using salmon
oil ... my dogs never did too well with it, but when I give them fish
oil - which is a combination of sardine, herring, salmon - they fare
MUCH better. Its all a matter of tweaking the diet to get the balance
right for the indivigual dog.

Noelle M.

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: feeding turkey
Posted by: "Arlene Fell" abeautiful3@yahoo.com abeautiful3
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:47 pm ((PDT))

Kristin thanks for responding I was concerned about the bone.

girlndocs <girlndocs@hotmail.com> wrote: Hi Arlene,

My dog loves turkey drumsticks :) I would rather offer her whole
turkey hindquarters, but I don't have any of those yet -- I'll get
them in a month or so when turkey season really starts, though.

Something about the shape seems to engage her and require her to chew
differently on them than on some other foods she gets, and she seems
to really enjoy that.

She eats the whole bone (she's a large Lab mix).

Kristin

Arlene Fell

---------------------------------
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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4a. Re: Cheap meat
Posted by: "girlndocs" girlndocs@hotmail.com girlndocs
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:47 pm ((PDT))

Hi Alicia,

> Can you share how you worded your ads?

Sure. I headed it something like "Wanted: meat scrap, trim and other
discard. Cleaning your freezer? Read this!"

The ad itself said that I "make my own dog food" and freezer burned or
slightly "ripe" meat may not be good for humans but it's just fine for
dogs. I also listed an idea of the parts of animals I'm looking for: I
mentioned that I can use feet and organs (especially liver and
stomach/tripe) from beef, poultry, pork, goat and lamb, and that I
also use fish.

Before I got my freezer I was upfront that I couldn't pick up huge
quantities of anything. You might also want to add how far you're
willing to drive, so you don't have to turn down a lot of responses
from people two cities away who want to give you a single rabbit, for
instance.

I closed with an offer to barter if anyone likes. I offered baked
goods; if you have something of wide appeal like that it's best,
because you might have, say, a vintage barstool you're willing to
trade but not many people will necessarily be interested in that.
(Although if you're Craigslisting a vintage barstool or anything else,
make sure to mention that you'll consider bartering it for meat!).

What I learned is that apparently there's plenty of people with stuff
in their freezer that they have no intention of using but feel bad
just throwing out. Ditto for people butchering or hunting. It's not so
much begging for handouts as offering a mutually beneficial
arrangement, so don't be shy.

Kristin

Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. Re: Is a chicken only diet OK?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:09 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Nicole!
Feeding a single protein isn't the best, you know that.
But, if you hafta, for now, you hafta.

We understand, but aren't going to let you off the hook. ^_^
If you make a special effort to source and feed variety now, it will
be so much easier later, when the budget crunch eases.

A little creativity now can make up for your shortfall, check out The
Lis List for ways to cheaply or for free, find variety;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/139618
Post #139618

You must make a very special effort to get the 5% liver in Maggie's
diet. This is the easy part. Most whole chickens come with the heart,
gizzards and liver. Also, you can often buy a little tub of chicken
livers at the grocery store. If you don't see it, ask the 'meat man'
behind the counter. The 5% 'other organs' is a little more difficult.
But, you can do it, I know!

Look for marked down meats that are close to their expire date, even
cheap ground beef is good in a pinch for variety. There are very cheap
brands of human grade hamburger patties in the freezer case that have
added heart and liver ground up in the mix. (weed out the ones with
added soy, tho') Pork, the larger cuts can be very cheap on sale. Ask
the man behind the counter if they can get beef or veal heart for a
good price - this is often very cheap in the supermarket, too. Holiday
turkey sales are coming up soon, be ready to stock up!

Veggies or fruits shouldn't be considered as part of Maggie's diet. If
she likes a bit as a snack when you're having one, then its all good.
But don't convince yourself you can substitute plant matter for
protein, bones and organs.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I have been feeding raw for about a month now but Maggie is really only
> getting chicken.
<snip>
I've also noticed that she likes apples, bananas,
> zucchini and will eat peach slices (all raw) if i drop them. Is this
> ok? It doesn't bother me but wanted to check with you all to be sure it
> isn't a problem. Once I get my financial legs back under me I will get
> more of the good stuff, but for now I want to be sure I'm not depriving
> her of needing nutrients.
>
> Nicole & Maggie

Messages in this topic (3)
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6a. Re: no poop is it time to panic?
Posted by: "Josephine Morningstar" josephine.morningstar@gmail.com jomorningstar
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:46 pm ((PDT))

Heather pooped again this evening. this is 2nd day on just the beef, 2 day
on taper of cortisone, and 3rd day off the (too short) antibiotics.

Her coat is now getting So much softer.. (it had been horribly rough and
coarse ) and the amt of energy?? wow.. trotting even more and a bit of a
chow hound now..

she had been really slower BEFORE the steroid and antibiotic. so this return
is a good thing.

--
Josephine MorningStar & Heather, Pyr, Mobility & MASD
Native American in Massachusetts

Never threaten anyone. It ruins the surprise.
www.apachecreations.com

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Messages in this topic (5)
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7a. Re: How long to let new puppy go without food?
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:46 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "rareimer1979" <rareimer@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all...I just got my little pug puppy (Ozzy) today, and I think I'm
> in love. :)

Wait til you get your second or third ;) I would recommend doing what
Merrill said. Help him out until you see that he's getting the hang of
it and can go it alone.

Silvina

Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. Re: Should a Pit Bull be fed a Raw Diet?
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:46 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "aqualitybeagles"
<aqualitybeagles@...> wrote:

My Pittie Boy is a raw fed angel! He's probably aroound 8-9 mos and has
been on raw since I found him. I have hand-fed him so when I take a
bone away because he's going to bury it, he just looks at me with
a, "But Mom, Why?" look. He's a sweetie. Tell your dad that raw is good
for Pits.

Silvina

Messages in this topic (11)
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9a. Re: Frustrated and cannot find any answers
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:52 pm ((PDT))

Wa-La!
The Lis List;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/139618
Post #139618

btw, Steff - when you put so many artificial restrictions on a goal
that you say you wholeheartedly espouse - like feeding a species
appropriate raw whole prey model diet, so your dogs can be healthy and
symptom free - it makes the outcome practically unachievable.

Time to step back, review what you know and refocus your feeding plan.

Give it time to work. And, simplify, simplify, simplify. You can't
control an outcome by trying to force it.

You need a Cuba Libre! And a big chunk of dark chocolate! ^_^

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> "Steffani Martino" <yahoogroups800@> wrote:
> While I have been really trying to avoid
> > trying to go back to finding a really good, high quality pet food,
> *****
> Understanding that there is no such thing should make the decision
> somewhat easier.
>
>
> > Firstly, I am having a harder and harder time finding non-enhanced
> meat
> *****
> Many of us choose not to feed enhanced meats; where do you live and
> where have you been looking? There's a fabulous "source message"
> that reappears from time to time, perhaps someone (Giselle?) will
> repost it for you.
>
>
> > because both of my dogs have been suffering allergies majorly and
> Ive pretty
> > much ruled out any environmental or household irritants, so I know
> it must
> > either be the type of meat, or the fact that it has been injected
> with
> > something.
> *****
> If you can identify one meat without enhancement that you can rely on
> for several months, you should get a pretty good idea about what dogs
> are responding to what. It's unlikely unless they are related that
> they would suffer from the same "allergies".
>
>
> I get most of our meat from the supermarket and a local meat
> > market and it seems as if EVERYTHING now is enhanced!
> *****
> I doubt your only choices are the local super and organic. There's a
> great deal of space between these extremes.
>
>
> nor do I have the time to be going all over
> > town to hunt it out as I am recently married to my new business!
> *****
> Yes, there's a certain amount of responsibility one has to muster up
> in order to feed real food. It doesn't have to be so insufferable as
> you make it sound though. Perhaps sorting things out, making a list
> and checking it twice, working to apply a tiny bit of plan to your
> personal life can give you some space.
>
>
> I've even
> > tried the local co-op foods, but they have a very limited selection
> and one
> > of my dogs does not like the ground stuff, so its not worth the
> time or
> > price.
> *****
> Perhaps you might make your needs and preferences known to the co-
> op. You're right about the ground stuff: hardly worth the time or
> price. Alas, very much the same conclusion you can apply to "really
> good high quality pet food."
>
>
> So, one of my dogs seems to only have allergies to certain types of
> > meat and is very un-picky...she will eat anything, which is good.
> The other
> > dog seems to have allergies to everything and anything
> *****
> I think these are bigger and different issues than "food allergies"
> but certainly getting rid of the enhanced meats is a step in tyhe
> right direction. A dog that is allergic to everything has got immune
> system problems that go way deeper than food. Changing back to
> commercial pet food will nominally make your life easier but will do
> NADA to address the issues your dogs have.
>
>
> I know
> > that picky eaters are made, however its frustrating when
> your "child" does
> > not want to eat for days at a time, so I usually give in, in
> addition to not
> > having the time play games over food.
> *****
> No, you should not have to waste time on food games. Identify a
> healthy, unenhanced meat and feed it and if the dog doesn't eat
> collect it up. Eating is not a game. It can be big fun but it isn't
> a game.
>
>
> My boy dog has just never gained the
> > interest in raw meat and enjoyment in eating that his sister has.
> *****
> As long as you permit his indifference to get in the way, it will.
> Additionally of course, a healthy dog is more likely to enjoy its
> food, so addressing his larger systemic issues will almost certainly--
> eventually--increase his dining satisfaction. At this point, eating
> when he is hungry is your goal.
>
>
> Between
> > the constant itching all over and runny eyes, Im frustrated that my
> dogs are
> > not as "seemingly" healthy as they seemed before on pet food. I
> dont know
> > what is in the pet food that prevents or even hides these issues,
> but my
> > dogs didnt suffer on kibble.
> *****
> So that makes kibble better? My guess is your dogs are finally
> getting fuel healthy enough to try to fix what's going on. Getting
> rid of what ails ya (or trying) is better than not getting rid of
> it. Stopping the behaviors is not fixing them.
>
>
> So, as of right now, the only advantage that
> > I am seeing to feeding raw is their clean teeth!
> *****
> There's probably additional advantageous stuff going on inside though.
>
>
> > In addition, just to cover all bases, I have tried numerous
> homepathic
> > remedies. I have tried simple things such as oatmeal baths,
> lavender, itch
> > sprays, etc. My dogs have not been vaccinated in over a year, nor
> have they
> > been given any medications, etc. that are not natural products.
> *****
> No vax in one year after a life and generations of vax is a step in
> the right direction but it's not the only step. You don't say how
> long you've been trying homeopathic remedies or what they are but it
> sounds to me like right now you are frantic for more time and less
> stress in your life and you are looking for immediate solutions where
> there can be none. Regaining--obtaining--good health is rarely as
> easy as one hopes. Often there are not speedy answers.
>
> I recommend you find one unhanced meat to feed. I recommend you
> offer the picky eater one meal at a time and don't cater to his
> pickiness. I recommend you not worry about menu variety for a
> while. I recommend you think beyond your local supermarket. I
> encourage you to control your urge to do it all perfectly. There are
> probably resources that can help you prioritize and streamline
> without sacrificing quality.
>
> You can feed a raw diet without killing yourself in the process. You
> will not feed healthier food by switching to "high quality" kibble.
> You need to step back from the individual issues your dogs have and
> work to treat the whole rather than the parts. By taking the time to
> do the right--and effective--thing, you can avoid the huge
> frustration of having to do a bunch of wrong--ineffective--things
> over and over.
>
> And I really really recommend you take a deep breath or three.
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (9)
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9b. Re: Frustrated and cannot find any answers
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:01 pm ((PDT))

Giselle" <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>> You need a Cuba Libre! And a big chunk of dark chocolate! ^_^
*****
LOL
Wrong list, Giselle.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
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9c. Re: Frustrated and cannot find any answers
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:21 pm ((PDT))

Then, can *I* have a Cuba Libre and a big chunk of dark chocolate?
; )
G

duh, thot for a mo' that I had posted the worng list. ROF

> Giselle" <megan.giselle@> wrote:
> >> You need a Cuba Libre! And a big chunk of dark chocolate! ^_^
> *****
> LOL
> Wrong list, Giselle.
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (9)
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10a. Re: Day 4 of Raw and WILD!
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:07 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Alicia!
Yup. You betcha!

The dry itchy skin could conceivably take longer than a month, or two,
or three, to resolve.

We humans are so 'want it right now!'. ^_^

A good quality Salmon or Fish Body oil supp could help that along.
http://timberwolforganics.com/pet-omega-oils

Dogs to 25 lbs - 1/2 teaspoon

Dogs 25 - 50 lbs - 1 teaspoon

Dogs 50+ lbs - 1 1/2 teaspoon

http://www.icelandpure.com/salmon_oil.htm

Each pump dispenses 1/2 a TSP.

Directions: For best results, add to your dog's food daily day or night.

Pet's Weight Up To Amount

1 - 10 lbs 1/2 tsp daily 1 pump

10 - 25 lbs 1 tsp daily 2 pumps

25 - 50 lbs 2 tsp daily 3 pumps

50 - 75 lbs 3 tsp daily 4 pumps

50 + lbs 4 tsp daily 5 pumps

http://www.grizzlypetproducts.com/salmon_oil/salmon_oil.html

http://www.grizzlypetproducts.com/dosages/dosages.html

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

<snip> He is normally a very active, obedient dog, but today he is
> absolutely crazy with "joy"?
<snip>
could raw really be affecting him this way so soon? Or visa-versa,
was kibble slowing him down that much?
<snip>
> Thanks,
> Alicia
>

Messages in this topic (2)
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11a. How often for different organs?
Posted by: "trayc2244" BreeZ119@catt.com trayc2244
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:13 pm ((PDT))

How often do you give different organs in the raw diet?
As in how often would you give liver? Hearts? Kidneys?
Once a week? Twice a week?
Does a serving of organs count as a meal?

Thanks,
Tracy

Messages in this topic (3)
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11b. Re: How often for different organs?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:13 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Tracy!
Liver is about 5% of the total diet, another 5% is 'other'
organs.
So, if your dog eats 1 lb. of food daily, about 1/2 oz, maybe .6 oz
would be the correct amount for liver and 'other' organs each.

But, you don't have to feed organs every day. You can feed them once a
week, or once a month. Just so that the 5%-5% organs 'Balances Over Time'.

I wouldn't feed a whole meal of organs to any dog I wasn't sure could
tolerate it. Feeding whole meals of squidgey ick organs is a sure
recipe for cannon butt. Toleration often can be built up over time.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> How often do you give different organs in the raw diet?
> As in how often would you give liver? Hearts? Kidneys?
> Once a week? Twice a week?
> Does a serving of organs count as a meal?
>
> Thanks,
> Tracy
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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11c. Re: How often for different organs?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 4:24 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "trayc2244" <BreeZ119@...> wrote:
>
> How often do you give different organs in the raw diet?
> As in how often would you give liver?

Once or twice a week along with a meal.

> Hearts?

Hearts are not organs for our purposes. They are muscle meat. I
feed a few globs of beef heart 3 or 4 times a week along with a meal.

> Kidneys?

Rarely

> Does a serving of organs count as a meal?

I wouldn't feed a whole meal of organs. Just a glob along with a
meal.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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12a. Different stomachs
Posted by: "trayc2244" BreeZ119@catt.com trayc2244
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:13 pm ((PDT))

Hello,
I know cow stomach is the most popular choice, but is it just as
acceptable to feed different stomachs (pig, deer, goat, ect)? Do they
provide just as much essential nutrients as the green tripe? How often
shouls stomachs be fed?

Thanks,
Tracy

Messages in this topic (2)
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12b. Re: Different stomachs
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:40 pm ((PDT))

"trayc2244" <BreeZ119@...> wrote:
> I know cow stomach is the most popular choice
*****
Only because cow green tripe is the most available choice. I much
prefer lamb tripe but cow is easier to come by.

but is it just as
> acceptable to feed different stomachs (pig, deer, goat, ect)?
*****
The stomach of merit is the stomach of a ruminant. Cows, goat, sheep
and deer have appropriate stomachs; a pig's stomach is very much like
ours and while an ungulate, a pig has neither the diet nor the
plumbing that lends itself to tripe.

Do they
> provide just as much essential nutrients as the green tripe?
*****
Green tripe is the term that describes the stomach lining with some
amount of digesta stuck on to it. It can be cow green tripe or goat
or sheep or venison.

Green tripe doesn't offer much in the way of essential nutrients;
it's a part of the critter and that alone qualifies it as valuable
but it has no magical properties and bestows on a raw diet no special
blessing. It's a good thing. It's not essential.

How often
> shouls stomachs be fed?
*****
If you mean whole stomachs, "infrequently" would probably be the
correct answer. If you mean green tripe (regardless of source), you
can feed it as often as you want and can afford. I doubt it can be
overdone but it is not a substitute for meat and bone.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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13a. [Raw Feeding] Fish and ? about eggs
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:13 pm ((PDT))

Fish, you can get omega from feeding fish right? I can usually get
catfish and salmon pretty easily and sometimes I can get other fish
from like Food Pyramid (was Albertsons) what about Salmon out of the
can, as long as it's in water, or oil? What about sardines? Good
bad?

And tonight I tried something new - eggs - didn't I read that dogs can
eat the shell? None of mine did? Or am i dreaming that I read it?

--
Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok
www.obediencetrainingclubofbartlesville.com

Messages in this topic (3)
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13b. Re: [Raw Feeding] Fish and ? about eggs
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:56 pm ((PDT))

"Brandi Bryant" <bbryant573@...> wrote:>
> Fish, you can get omega from feeding fish right
*****
Certain kinds of fish provide Omega 3s. Not all fish, not by a long
shot. Here are three websites that can help you make choices.

http://www.tufts.edu/med/nutrition-infection/hiv/health_omega3.html
http://www.annecollins.com/dietary-fat/fish-oils-fatty-acids.htm
http://www.thepaleodiet.com/nutritional_tools/omega3.shtml

I can usually get
> catfish and salmon pretty easily and sometimes I can get other fish
> from like Food Pyramid (was Albertsons)
*****
Catfish offer no Omega3 but many people feed it for protein variety.
Farmed salmon offer some Omega 3; wild caught offer more. Farmed
salmon is raised on the fish equivalent of Purina Dog Chow. Check out
the links I included, then compare these options to what the
supermarket offers. Few will be high Omega 3 fish but most will be
useful for protein variety.

what about Salmon out of the
> can, as long as it's in water, or oil? What about sardines? Good
> bad?
*****
Many people choose not to feed canned salmon, mackerel or sardines
because these fish are cooked. Many others include them in the menu,
offering them from time to time. It is your choice. Ironically
enough, wild salmon from the Arctic is what gets canned. This Arctic
salmon is the best of the best. Figures, no?

> And tonight I tried something new - eggs - didn't I read that dogs can
> eat the shell? None of mine did?
*****
Some dogs eat the shells, others do not. My guess is it's an acquired
skill. Don't worry.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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13c. Re: [Raw Feeding] Fish and ? about eggs
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 3:02 am ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/30/2007 7:13:43 PM Pacific Standard Time,
bbryant573@gmail.com writes:

what about Salmon out of the
can, as long as it's in water, or oil? What about sardines? Good
bad?

Brandi,

Canned = Cooked.. therefore other than an Emergency meal, they have no place
in a raw diet.

fish are great for meat variety, and cold water fish like tuna, salmon,
mackeral and sardines are good for O3. BUT, the little bit you're going to get
from the fish will in no way make up for what you're missing by feeding feedlot
raised meat. The folks on this list who feel their dogs are lacking something
by eating regular grocery store meat, or have dry skin issues, or feed heavy
on the chicken side often suppliment with fish body oil or salmon oil.

I do give salmon oil in the hottest part of the summer and the driest part of
the winter. But i don't add it to every meal, mostly just once or twice a
week (when i remember). the things that make the biggest difference in my dogs'
coats is FAT and MEATY MEAT. when their skin gets very dry i add fattier
meats, more meat and less bone, this makes far more difference in their coats
that the measly little amount of salmon oil that they get. i really don't think
you can suppliment with enough salmon oil to make a serious difference without
causing digestive upset.

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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14. New to group/introduction
Posted by: "Bethany Satterlee" cmykgrl@gmail.com cmykgrl
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:29 pm ((PDT))

Hi, this is my first post to the group. I've been lurking for almost a week
and just started feeding raw. I'm VERY excited about it as are my dogs! They
have taken to it like pros!

My husband and I have two dogs. Maddie is a 1 year old Australian Cattle
Dog/Jack Russell mix and Éva is a 11 month old Vizsla. They keep me very
busy.

Monday I decided to ditch the kibble when I woke up to find Éva, our Vizsla
covered in hive-like bumps. She looked like a red rice krispy treat. They
were out of their regular food (which I order from petfooddirect) so I had
them eating another food (which they normally did ok with). They were eating
SG Barking at the Moon regularly and I had them eating SG Hund-n-flocken for
a few days until my order of Barking at the Moon came.

Monday I started giving them frozen chicken breast partially cooked. Each
day I cooked it less and less. Wednesday I gave them totally raw quartered
chickens with the skin. They LOVED it!! I was amazed!! They seemed a little
confused at first, but then dug right in and have been doing excellent ever
since!! So far they have eaten quartered chicken pieces and leg quarters.

My husband is disgusted and very squeamish by the whole thing. I told him
this is what we are doing from now on and our girls will be much healthier
for it. I also told him to be on the look out for a good deal on a deep
freeze! Ha Ha!!

I've seen a dramatic change in Éva's coat and skin in less than a week. She
doesn't have hardly any hives now and her skin isn't as dry and flaky. She
suffers from seasonal allergies and has eczema.

I have also been feeding them fish oil capsules with each meal. They think
it's a fabulous treat!

I'm just so happy with what I've seen in such a short amount of time from
the switch in diet.
Beth

--
"We can judge the heart of a man by his dealings with animals."
-Immanuel Kant

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Messages in this topic (1)
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15.1. Re: New Member
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:32 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Carol!
Welcome to the raw side! ^_^

My recommendations to start feeding raw;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374

post # 141374

Check out these websites, too;
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

This list promotes and supports a species appropriate raw whole prey
model diet -
no bread, no grains, no veggies, no fruits necessary.
Just lots of lovely meat, a little edible bone, some organs, and as
many other bits of whole critters as you can manage.

Ditch the vet dental, your dogs won't need it. Ditto the bare bones
from the butcher - dogs need soft edible bones, not tooth breakers
like w/rec/k bones, marrow bones or soup bones. Feed your dogs
portions larger than their heads, and they will get mental, dental,
physical benefits and soul stirring satisfaction from their food, as
well as optimum nourishment.

TC and let us know how you progress!
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

<snip>
> I have access to several good sources of raw food for my dogs and
> decided that it is time to look into going from supplementing their
> kibble with raw food to a full diet. Before I do this, I want to
> research so that I feed them a healthy diet, not just whatever I
> happen to have on hand.
<snip>
> So... there is my situation, I'm looking forward to the ideas you all
> have!
>
> ~ Carol
> _____________
> Carol Dunster
> cedunster@...
>

Messages in this topic (120)
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16a. Re: First RAW WITH BONES served today!!
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:38 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Alex!
For most of us, and our dogs, the light just keeps getting
brighter every day! ^_^
YQW.
Keep us posted!
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

<snip>
I THINK WE'VE SEEN THE LIGHT!!
>
> Thanks everybody!!
>
> Alex Dewey

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17a. Re: Ostrich bones
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:39 pm ((PDT))

"ms1616emc" <auntie_bear@...> wrote:
>
> Has anyone ever fed ostrich knuckles? I see them on my supplier's
> wesbiste, but not sure how big they would be (didn't even know
> ostrich's has knuckles!).
*****
Not knowing your supplier nor the website, I can only guess those
ostrich knuckles are like most others I've seen and that's bare naked,
no meat-just bone worthless.

Even for a 12lb Chi a bare bone is not a useful toy. I recommend you
pasadena.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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