Feed Pets Raw Food: [rawfeeding] Digest Number 12097

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. what to do
From: Judy McCammon
1b. Re: what to do
From: Casey Post
1c. Re: what to do
From: Judy McCammon

2. Re: Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment
From: Meg Helmes

3a. Re: How long to let new puppy go without food?
From: Andrea

4a. Re: coughing and bloody stool
From: Andrea
4b. Re: coughing and bloody stool
From: carnesbill

5a. Re: Frustrated and cannot find any answers
From: Andrea
5b. Re: Frustrated and cannot find any answers
From: costrowski75
5c. Re: Frustrated and cannot find any answers
From: carnesbill

6a. Re: Constipation? Bone Blockage?
From: Andrea

7a. Pig stomach
From: Shannon Hully
7b. Re: Pig stomach
From: Andrea

8a. Re: Should a Pit Bull be fed a Raw Diet?
From: Cindy Marabito
8b. Re: Should a Pit Bull be fed a Raw Diet?
From: Heather

9a. Dry Skin but Feeding Raw
From: s_retzer
9b. Re: Dry Skin but Feeding Raw
From: Sandee Lee

10a. scared of bones
From: c.bednar
10b. Re: scared of bones
From: Sandee Lee
10c. Re: scared of bones
From: carnesbill
10d. Re: scared of bones
From: carolejc2007

11. A few problems with raw diet
From: suburbancow

12a. Is a chicken only diet OK?
From: skyli_19
12b. Re: Is a chicken only diet OK?
From: carnesbill

13a. Re: no poop is it time to panic?
From: Josephine Morningstar

Messages
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1a. what to do
Posted by: "Judy McCammon" fenstokebullmastiffs@yahoo.com fenstokebullmastiffs
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:15 am ((PDT))

am going away for 6 days and my raw fed cats are a problem. is there a way to leave their raw food out and have it be ok? I just hate the thought of leaving them kibble. They have never had kibble .

Regards,

Judy

____________________________________________________________________________________
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Messages in this topic (3)
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1b. Re: what to do
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:55 am ((PDT))

> am going away for 6 days and my raw fed cats are a problem. is there a
> way to leave their raw food out and have it be ok? I just hate the
> thought of leaving them kibble. They have never had kibble .
>

For six days? No, there's no way to leave food out for six days and have it
be ok. If they've never eaten kibble, then it's not a safe option, either -
they may not recognize it as food and therefore won't eat it, which could
leave them open to the possibility of hepatic lipidosis.

Get a friend or neighbor to stop by and feed them while you're gone. Or
hire a pet sitter.

Casey

Messages in this topic (3)
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1c. Re: what to do
Posted by: "Judy McCammon" fenstokebullmastiffs@yahoo.com fenstokebullmastiffs
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:30 am ((PDT))

thanks...that's what I was feeling comfortable with...sometimes it's getting input that helps secure your decision

Regards,

Judy McCammon

www.geocities.com/fenstokebullmastiffs

----- Original Message ----
From: Casey Post <mikken@neo.rr.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 12:52:07 PM
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] what to do

Get a friend or neighbor to stop by and feed them while you're gone. Or
hire a pet sitter.

Casey

____________________________________________________________________________________
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Messages in this topic (3)
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2. Re: Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment
Posted by: "Meg Helmes" mhelmes@gmail.com meg_helmes
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:33 am ((PDT))

> hey, I had no idea you could get canned tripe..where do you get
that>?
*****
>LOL
>The issue isn't where, but why.
>If you can imagine it, canned tripe is cooked. Tripe isn't required at
>all; to feed it cooked is I think beyond the pale.
>Chris O

While the canned tripe is not exactly a health food (I agree with you there,
Chris), I use it as a means to get pills into my dog. Like I said before, it
is the only thing that she doesn't just suck off of a pill, and then spit
the pill out (she is a smart cookie). It is so "aromatic" that mixing canned
tripe with ground turkey makes the ground turkey become extra apealing, thus
assuring the whole mess will be scarfed down, including the all-important
meds. Sure beat stuffing them down her throat! =)
--
~Meg
*********************************************************
Children are for people who can't have dogs. ~Author Unknown

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Messages in this topic (1)
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3a. Re: How long to let new puppy go without food?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:50 am ((PDT))

Sounds like he's trying, but maybe his jaw strength just isn't there yet. If you can find some
cornish game hens that would be good for him to start with. They are really tender so he
should be able to work through them. If you can't find game hens try giving him a bone in
breast with the meat super ribboned. Hope that helps, congrats on the new pup! Pug
puppies are so adorable!

Andrea

> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "rareimer1979" <rareimer@> wrote:

> > Tonight I offered him a chicken thigh without the skin, and I ribboned
> > it a bit to make it easier for him to eat, even cut a little chunk off
> > for him as well. He was very eager to eat it, dove right in and
> > worked on it, but actually never ATE much, if any. He sure tried
> > though! I offered it to him again later, and he tried again, but
> > still didn't actually consume any, I don't think.

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: coughing and bloody stool
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:11 am ((PDT))

It is possible that a bit of bone irritated your daschund's throat on the way down which is
causing him to cough. When you cut up leg quarters do you cut smaller than leg/thighs?
If the coughing doesn't go away and sounds like a honk you he might have kennel cough.

Bright red blood in the stool usually means there was some irritation on the way out.
Maybe the pups could do well with more meat and less bone in their diet.

A lot of dogs act like they are starving all day every day after they are switched to raw food.
Probably some fear that the food won't be there tomorrow or something. Sometimes it
goes away once the dog realizes that mom isn't going to change her mind and give him
doom nuggets again, sometimes it helps to feed at random times.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Garnaat" <cgar88@...> wrote:

> 1) My daschund started hard coughing early evening last night. He coughed
> through the night and is still coughing this morning. He does not cough
> anything up. This morning, he refused his small biscuit that he begs for
> every morning when I get on the computer. The coughing makes me think
> perhaps this could be bone lodged somewhere. Any advice as what to do? He
> seems fine other than the coughing (and refusing his morning biscuit).
>
> 2) My Yorkie passed stool with blood in it last night and this morning. The
> stool has gelatinous looking parts, and was stringy. Advice on this would
> be appreciated.
>
> 3) They seem to be hungry, wanting more. I am watching their weight and
> have no weight loss, so I think I am feeding sufficiently. Do others
> experience this "hungry" attitude?

Messages in this topic (3)
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4b. Re: coughing and bloody stool
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:04 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Garnaat" <cgar88@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello all,
> I've just started my 12lb Daschund and 8.5lb Yorkie on raw feed
about 2
> weeks ago. They love it! I have been feeding chicken leg
quarters, cut to
> their 2% of ideal weight amounts. The daschund gets a couple
small Wellness
> brand biscuit treats in the morning. The Yorkie likes to beg for
lunch meat
> bits in the late evening, scratching at the refrig for me to get
her some.
> Neither is interested in dry kibble any longer.
>
> I have several questions.
>
> 1) My daschund started hard coughing early evening last night.
> He coughed
> through the night and is still coughing this morning. ..... He
> seems fine other than the coughing (and refusing his
> morning biscuit).

I agree with Andrea on this. Either an irratated throat or possibly
kennel cough. Him feeling fine tells me that he is ok.

> 2) My Yorkie passed stool with blood in it last night and
> this morning. The
> stool has gelatinous looking parts, and was stringy.

This is not unusual for newly switched rawfed dogs. It will happen
less and less as time goes by.

> 3) They seem to be hungry, wanting more. I am watching
> their weight and
> have no weight loss, so I think I am feeding sufficiently.

Again, not unusual for newly switched dogs. Sometimes the very
small dogs need a little more food than 2%/adult weight. You willl
get the volume worked out in time. It's nothing critical.

To re-emphasize something Andrea asked and it is important. Don't
cut the leg bone or thigh bone in two. You can seperate the two
bones but don't cut the individual bones. That COULD lead to sharp
edges that COULD irritate the throat or intestines.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. Re: Frustrated and cannot find any answers
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:12 am ((PDT))

Maybe it is time to do an elimination diet, yes? Unehnanced chickens aren't too hard to
find or too expensive for that matter. Foster Farms chickens are unenhanced and when
not on sale are only around $1.19/lb here in Central California. Stock up on just
unenhanced chicken and feed nothing but that for several months. It sometimes takes
months for old allergens to get out of the system, so if they don't clear up right away don't
blame the chicken just yet. During that time see if you can find some unenhanced pork. If
the symptoms don't go away/get worse with chicken, next try pork. If you try chicken,
pork, beef, goat, etc. and always see the same reaction I think you need to look at
environmental reasons again. Some dogs might have an allergy to a raw protein, but it is
really rare. It must be frustrating, but try and designate one day a week where you go in
search of new food sources (it is often times really fun). HTH

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Steffani Martino" <yahoogroups800@...> wrote:
>
> Ok, so I know there have been several "I feel like giving up" threads
> lately, but add me to the list. While I have been really trying to avoid
> trying to go back to finding a really good, high quality pet food, it seems
> as if feeding raw has become more and more of a hassle for my 2 dogs. I
> have been feeding raw for almost a year.

Messages in this topic (4)
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5b. Re: Frustrated and cannot find any answers
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:10 am ((PDT))

"Steffani Martino" <yahoogroups800@...> wrote:
While I have been really trying to avoid
> trying to go back to finding a really good, high quality pet food,
*****
Understanding that there is no such thing should make the decision
somewhat easier.

> Firstly, I am having a harder and harder time finding non-enhanced
meat
*****
Many of us choose not to feed enhanced meats; where do you live and
where have you been looking? There's a fabulous "source message"
that reappears from time to time, perhaps someone (Giselle?) will
repost it for you.

> because both of my dogs have been suffering allergies majorly and
Ive pretty
> much ruled out any environmental or household irritants, so I know
it must
> either be the type of meat, or the fact that it has been injected
with
> something.
*****
If you can identify one meat without enhancement that you can rely on
for several months, you should get a pretty good idea about what dogs
are responding to what. It's unlikely unless they are related that
they would suffer from the same "allergies".

I get most of our meat from the supermarket and a local meat
> market and it seems as if EVERYTHING now is enhanced!
*****
I doubt your only choices are the local super and organic. There's a
great deal of space between these extremes.

nor do I have the time to be going all over
> town to hunt it out as I am recently married to my new business!
*****
Yes, there's a certain amount of responsibility one has to muster up
in order to feed real food. It doesn't have to be so insufferable as
you make it sound though. Perhaps sorting things out, making a list
and checking it twice, working to apply a tiny bit of plan to your
personal life can give you some space.

I've even
> tried the local co-op foods, but they have a very limited selection
and one
> of my dogs does not like the ground stuff, so its not worth the
time or
> price.
*****
Perhaps you might make your needs and preferences known to the co-
op. You're right about the ground stuff: hardly worth the time or
price. Alas, very much the same conclusion you can apply to "really
good high quality pet food."

So, one of my dogs seems to only have allergies to certain types of
> meat and is very un-picky...she will eat anything, which is good.
The other
> dog seems to have allergies to everything and anything
*****
I think these are bigger and different issues than "food allergies"
but certainly getting rid of the enhanced meats is a step in tyhe
right direction. A dog that is allergic to everything has got immune
system problems that go way deeper than food. Changing back to
commercial pet food will nominally make your life easier but will do
NADA to address the issues your dogs have.

I know
> that picky eaters are made, however its frustrating when
your "child" does
> not want to eat for days at a time, so I usually give in, in
addition to not
> having the time play games over food.
*****
No, you should not have to waste time on food games. Identify a
healthy, unenhanced meat and feed it and if the dog doesn't eat
collect it up. Eating is not a game. It can be big fun but it isn't
a game.

My boy dog has just never gained the
> interest in raw meat and enjoyment in eating that his sister has.
*****
As long as you permit his indifference to get in the way, it will.
Additionally of course, a healthy dog is more likely to enjoy its
food, so addressing his larger systemic issues will almost certainly--
eventually--increase his dining satisfaction. At this point, eating
when he is hungry is your goal.

Between
> the constant itching all over and runny eyes, Im frustrated that my
dogs are
> not as "seemingly" healthy as they seemed before on pet food. I
dont know
> what is in the pet food that prevents or even hides these issues,
but my
> dogs didnt suffer on kibble.
*****
So that makes kibble better? My guess is your dogs are finally
getting fuel healthy enough to try to fix what's going on. Getting
rid of what ails ya (or trying) is better than not getting rid of
it. Stopping the behaviors is not fixing them.

So, as of right now, the only advantage that
> I am seeing to feeding raw is their clean teeth!
*****
There's probably additional advantageous stuff going on inside though.

> In addition, just to cover all bases, I have tried numerous
homepathic
> remedies. I have tried simple things such as oatmeal baths,
lavender, itch
> sprays, etc. My dogs have not been vaccinated in over a year, nor
have they
> been given any medications, etc. that are not natural products.
*****
No vax in one year after a life and generations of vax is a step in
the right direction but it's not the only step. You don't say how
long you've been trying homeopathic remedies or what they are but it
sounds to me like right now you are frantic for more time and less
stress in your life and you are looking for immediate solutions where
there can be none. Regaining--obtaining--good health is rarely as
easy as one hopes. Often there are not speedy answers.

I recommend you find one unhanced meat to feed. I recommend you
offer the picky eater one meal at a time and don't cater to his
pickiness. I recommend you not worry about menu variety for a
while. I recommend you think beyond your local supermarket. I
encourage you to control your urge to do it all perfectly. There are
probably resources that can help you prioritize and streamline
without sacrificing quality.

You can feed a raw diet without killing yourself in the process. You
will not feed healthier food by switching to "high quality" kibble.
You need to step back from the individual issues your dogs have and
work to treat the whole rather than the parts. By taking the time to
do the right--and effective--thing, you can avoid the huge
frustration of having to do a bunch of wrong--ineffective--things
over and over.

And I really really recommend you take a deep breath or three.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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5c. Re: Frustrated and cannot find any answers
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:31 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Steffani Martino"
<yahoogroups800@...> wrote:
>
> Firstly, I am having a harder and harder time finding
> non-enhanced meat
> because both of my dogs have been suffering allergies majorly
> and Ive pretty
> much ruled out any environmental or household irritants, so I
> know it must
> either be the type of meat, or the fact that it has been
> injected with
> something.

I think you are wasting your time worrying about food allergies,
enhancements, and homeopathic "cures". Assuming you are feeding
meat, bones, and organs only and not a lot of other junk (veggies,
fruits, etc), I don't think your problem is a food allergy.

I strongly suspect that you have been feeding non-enhanced meats for
a good period of time and still have the same problems. In spite of
what others think, I have never been convinced that enhancements
causes any problems at all. They are saline solutions and broth.
Neither are dangerous and millions of people eat those meats every
day with no adverse effects. Forget enhanced meats as being a
problem for your dogs.

I have never been convinced that anyone has ever been cured of
anything by homeopathy. Take your dogs to a veteranary
dermatologist and find out whats really wrong with them and treat
it. Right now you are just going in circles. Take the bull by the
horn so to speak and do something serious about their problem. The
raw diet is not the problem.

One more note: Don't let your picky dog determine his own diet.
Thats like letting a 2 year old child determine his diet. Give him
proper food and see to it that he eats it.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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6a. Re: Constipation? Bone Blockage?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:12 am ((PDT))

This is the first time he's had pork, yes? I would imagine it just upset his stomach. The rib
was boneless? I can't picture a boneless rib right now, but it just may have been too much
new food too fast for him. Depending on how he acts you might want to fast him for a day
and then go back to chicken. When you add pork, give him a little pork with a chicken meal
so his tummy gets used to it. Let us know how he does.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Kathie Middlemiss <geekgirl717@...> wrote:

> He's had nothing but chicken quarters/half chickens for a week and then
> this morning I gave him two pieces of boneless pork rib.
>
> Tonight, he's acting like he may be constipated or something. And when
> I let him out to go, I went out with him and (sorry if this is TMI) he
> farted really really loudly and then sat in the 'poo position' for quite
> some time. He came back up on the deck and rubbed his bum on the
> surface like worm dogs do, though his stools are worm-free.

Messages in this topic (3)
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7a. Pig stomach
Posted by: "Shannon Hully" summerwolf@theherbalhotline.com bluehankw
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:13 am ((PDT))

Hmm, I tried to post this but I got an error message so if it gets
posted twice I appologize!

I just found a pig stomach in my freezer that I evidently bought before
I got the dog and since we're now starting pork I thawed it out to feed
him. My question is: is it organ or meat?

If it's just meat then I won't worry about trying to find it again
since it isn't something I see frequently at the store but if it's
organ then maybe it's worth looking for specifically again at some
point. :-)

Shannon H.

Messages in this topic (2)
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7b. Re: Pig stomach
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:29 am ((PDT))

The stuff you get at the store has been boiled and bleached for our protection. I don't know
how much it offers nutritionally, but it becomes a fun chew toy. Definitely not something to
spend doggy dollars on, though.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Shannon Hully" <summerwolf@...> wrote:

> I just found a pig stomach in my freezer that I evidently bought before
> I got the dog and since we're now starting pork I thawed it out to feed
> him. My question is: is it organ or meat?

Messages in this topic (2)
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8a. Re: Should a Pit Bull be fed a Raw Diet?
Posted by: "Cindy Marabito" doggirl1@earthlink.net rowdycowgirl50
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:13 am ((PDT))

I have a pit bull rescue and they all eat 100% raw. They do great on
the diet and I've actually noticed more of a calmness among dogs and
pit bulls on a 100% raw diet as opposed to processed foods. There is
a trainer in northern California whose name I do not know who will
not train dogs who are not eating 100% raw diet..Cindy

Messages in this topic (10)
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8b. Re: Should a Pit Bull be fed a Raw Diet?
Posted by: "Heather" heather_b_bunny@yahoo.com heather_b_bunny
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:04 am ((PDT))

I was raised around a pit bull who was fed RAW (this was back in the 70s) and
Lumpy was the sweetest kindest dog I knew - I remember being shocked hearing
that Pit Bulls were dangerous animals and should all be destroyed.

As for diet making them blood thirsty - I can only speak to experiments done
when I was Pre-med in college and we studied rats - one of my classmates took 2
rats that were very docile and by shortfeeding them quite rapidly (in a matter
of about 7 days) one of the rats killed the other to get enough food. I think
that might be something that is done by the people who raise the Pits to fight
- it's a possibility that I can see happening. I think any species even a
beagle could become blood thirsty if to fight for it's food - regardless if it
was RAW or the other that shall not be named!

I think your mother should get all the support she can to keep her new puppy
happy and healthy.

-Heather

> Can anyone give me examples of Pit Bulls being fed a raw diet who are
> not ferocious killers? Or is my father right? They are very
> experienced and responsible dog owners, but they have never owned a
> Pit Bull.

The Homeopath and mommy to Declan

Women who behave rarely make history -

Messages in this topic (10)
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9a. Dry Skin but Feeding Raw
Posted by: "s_retzer" s_retzer@yahoo.com s_retzer
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:05 am ((PDT))

Hi Everyone

I have a friend that converted her 2 year old lab to raw this past
June. Strangely, the dog now suffers from dry skin/dandruff. The dog
did not have this kind of dry skin prior to the raw. She also
mentioned though the skin is dry, the dog does NOT seem to be itchy.

I don't know what to tell her as everything I know and have
experienced myself, the fur and skin of raw animals is much improved!

I realize it could be something else in the dog's environment, but
does anyone have any experience similar to this and could make a
suggestion on where to start investigating a solution? She mentioned
she will switch from pill form salmon oil to liquid, but I am thinking
there probably needs to be something else done to eliminate it entirely.

Thanks in advance,
Sarah

Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: Dry Skin but Feeding Raw
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:59 am ((PDT))

Do you know what she is feeding, Sarah? Too much chicken? Not enough meat
and fat?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "s_retzer" <s_retzer@yahoo.com>

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10a. scared of bones
Posted by: "c.bednar" itsagilitytime@aol.com c.bednar
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:34 am ((PDT))

Hello All, I am a total newbie! I have 3 dogs and I really want to feed
raw. I am terrified of the damage bones can do. While starting my
research I have found so many horror stories. I am not sure if I am
willing to take the risk. I don't agree with K***le but my dogs are
healthy right now. Can anyone tell me what is the safest way to feed
bones? Any input will be greatly appreciated, and I am so glad I found
this group. Carmie

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10b. Re: scared of bones
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:07 am ((PDT))

Carmie,

The safest way to feed bones is when they are slathered with meat!! And raw
of course.

We are well aware of the "horror stories" but have found them to be lacking
in detail and fact. On the other hand, this group has close to 10,000
members and countless numbers of dogs successfully eating raw *meaty* bones
without damage!

You've come to the right place...stick around, read through the rawfeeding
myths, look at Kevin's recipe page to visualize the many healthy dogs eating
real food...
http://rawfed.com
http://rawfeddogs.net

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "c.bednar" <itsagilitytime@aol.com>

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10c. Re: scared of bones
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:31 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "c.bednar" <itsagilitytime@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello All, I am a total newbie! I have 3 dogs and I really want
> to feed
> raw. I am terrified of the damage bones can do.

Dogs/wolves have been eating bones for millions of years. Most of
the horror stories you hear can't stand up to scrutiny. Also most
of the stories you hear are "my wife's coworker's husband's
brother's best friend's nextdoor neighbor's uncle had a dog
that ....". You almost never hear "my dog ....."

Don't worry. All of us here have been feeding bones almost daily to
many many dogs for many many years. We wouldn't do it if it was
dangerous.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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10d. Re: scared of bones
Posted by: "carolejc2007" mooska2me@sbcglobal.net carolejc2007
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:29 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
> Also most
> of the stories you hear are "my wife's coworker's husband's
> brother's best friend's nextdoor neighbor's uncle had a dog
> that ....". You almost never hear "my dog ....."
>
>
> Bill Carnes
> http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
>
> Feeding Raw since October 2002
>
> "Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
> Dr. Tom Lonsdale

LOL. That was really funny Bill!

Carole

Messages in this topic (4)
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11. A few problems with raw diet
Posted by: "suburbancow" lizzieodonnell@houston.rr.com suburbancow
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:36 am ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE REMEMBER TO SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

I've been feeding my 19 wk old German shepherd puppy a raw diet since
about the third week he's been home (11 wks). I asked on another
message board about this problem and they said I shouldn't be feeding
my puppy a raw diet and that I sohuld wait til he's an adult.

I took my pup out to play with the other dogs and he's bouncy and
playful and acting normal but in the 15 or so minutes I was out there
he peed three normal-length times. I always thought he drank a little
too much water than normal dogs.

I took my pup for his third set of shots about two weeks ago so it has
nothing to do with an reaction from the shots I'm sure. His poop is
also very small and from what I gather it's somewhat liquidy because I
can see circular areas in the concrete from where he pooped. They
disappear really fast... I saw one of them and it was dark but not
black, and it had an odd smell to it. It didn't smell like normal
poop. Smelled very strange. Are we allowed to post pictures of poop
here? If I can I'd like to go out and try to take a picture of it so
someone can tell me what's going on.

The person on the other message board suggested it may be a UTI or
something wrong with his kidneys so I should go to the vet and ask for
a urine check, kidney check, and some bloodwork. I'm thinking of
calling my vet about this if he pees a lot again today.

One last thing.. I'm thinking about changing my vet for these
reasons... Please tell me if they're valid or if I'm just being paranoid:

1.) Regarding my pup's temperature. My vet said his temp was slightly
elevated because he was scared of being in his office. It was 102
during the second visit and 103 during the last visit. He also peed on
me when I went last time when they were taking his temperature
probably from being scared but I'm sure a regular temperature would be
101 and that 103 is quite high.

2.) The vet gave the pup a physical exam only the first time I went
(which was his second set of shots). He looked at his eyes, ears,
teeth, smoothed his hand down his body, checked the groin area, and
expressed his glands. During the third set of shots I didn't even see
the vet, the vet tech administered the shots and didn't check anything
but his temp.

3.) He received rabies and DHLPP (I tihnk that's the acronym) in the
same shot. The vet tech shot half the shot in one leg and half the
shot in the other and I was really wondering what that was all about...

Should I change my vet? And does what I described sound like a UTI or
some issue with his kidneys?

My puppy has been eating chicken wings, necks, ground beef, ground
turkey, I gave him leg quarters a couple times, and I don't think I
give him enough big bones to chew on but I have been giving him beef
bones since his adult teeth are coming in. I also give him a veggie
mixture that includes leafy greens, cottage cheese, ACV, eggs with
shells, carrots, other vegetables that I have available and I throw
some fruit in there if I have it. I blend this all down to a pulp and
feed it to him about once every other day. Should I up the veggies? He
gets in total about 2-2 1/2 lbs of food a day split into two meals.

Please tell me if I'm doing anything wrong because I am 100% open to
any advice you guys have. Sorry this post was so long but every other
board tells me to go to the Raw feeding group on Yahoo rather than
help me out. Thanks in advance and tell me if I missed anything or if
I need to explain anything more.

Messages in this topic (1)
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12a. Is a chicken only diet OK?
Posted by: "skyli_19" NRB19@aol.com skyli_19
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:50 am ((PDT))

I have been feeding raw for about a month now but Maggie is really only
getting chicken. A thigh and a breast or various half to one pound
mixes each day. I can't afford anything else right now (new house,
underestimated bills, in over head) but have managed to keep her on
chicken parts each day (sometimes organs but not often). Is she getting
enough nutrition? She certainly isn't complaining and seems to be
keeping her weight. I picked up beef ribs and turkey necks for cheap,
once or twice, so that gives her a little bit of a mix but mostly it is
just chicken. I've also noticed that she likes apples, bananas,
zucchini and will eat peach slices (all raw) if i drop them. Is this
ok? It doesn't bother me but wanted to check with you all to be sure it
isn't a problem. Once I get my financial legs back under me I will get
more of the good stuff, but for now I want to be sure I'm not depriving
her of needing nutrients.

Nicole & Maggie

Messages in this topic (2)
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12b. Re: Is a chicken only diet OK?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:28 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "skyli_19" <NRB19@...> wrote:
>
> Is she getting
> enough nutrition?

Probably not. Look around, there are ways to get cheap meat. It
takes a few months to learn how to shop for raw fed dogs. Buy in
bulk, its cheaper. CHeck with meat wholesalers. Check with
butchers to see if you can get their scraps. Check with hunter
friends to see what you can get from them. Scan the newspaper for
sales.

> I picked up beef ribs and turkey necks for cheap,
> once or twice, so that gives her a little bit of a mix but mostly
> it is
> just chicken.

Cool, that helps. Try a little harder. Pork is often pretty cheap
and easy to digest.

> I've also noticed that she likes apples, bananas,
> zucchini and will eat peach slices (all raw) if i drop them.
> Is this ok?

It's ok in that it won't hurt her but they will give her no
nutrition.

> Once I get my financial legs back under me I will get
> more of the good stuff, but for now I want to be sure I'm
> not depriving
> her of needing nutrients.

Just put forth a little more effort in finding cheap meats and I'm
sure she will do fine.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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13a. Re: no poop is it time to panic?
Posted by: "Josephine Morningstar" josephine.morningstar@gmail.com jomorningstar
Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:29 pm ((PDT))

On 9/29/07, Andrea <poketmouse45@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Sounds like she did poop, though, right? Depending on the size of dog you
> have,

great pyrenees. 29 inches at the shoulders weight is 125 lbs. (service dog
work built more muscle then the breed normally carries.

the poo
> sounds just about right to me. Raw fed dogs poo a whole lot less than
> ki**le fed dogs.
> Don't worry, nothing is wrong.
>
> As far as refusing to eat anything but ground, don't let her.

this was right after a pork brisket bone. and the other smaller bones with
it.. more bone then she is normally getting. I usually dont let her have
it.. i watch and let her take the meat off it.. and then take it from her
(knowing that bone with no meat on it is not that great a thing) BUT i got
called away urgently befoer i could take the bone.. so she ate it.. with no
meat around it.. part of my panic.

You're the owner and she's
> the dog. Give her real food and if she doesn't eat it, maybe she'll
> change her mind at the
> next meal. Just be firm.

I have tried that in the past.. she went 4 days without eating.. since i
need her to do service dog work. thats not an option. without her being up
to speed for her work. it puts me at risk. death is too likely an outcome
for ME then for her.

thanks though

also. i checked back every couple of hours and then wham all the responses
finally show up today.. gmail or yahoo.. needs a laxative.

OH.. she had a poop last night also.. no bone in it. but dark.. But she had
eaten some beef liver the night after the bone meal. so im hoping that was
that.

because she goes into stores and all with me.. i need her to pooey in the
morning (i only feed at night) and usually that works out okay. except the
last pork bone meal thru that off really bad.. I can not go into a store
without her. its not a case of *leave her at home do the shopping*. the only
thing that comes close to doing what she does. but much more delayed as in
response to past events. is the oxygen saturation machine in Hospitals. i
cant drag that with me. it only shows what happens AFTER the event.. and
Heather alerts just as it starts ( i also dont go slowly down in O2 sats. i
crash) so i really really depend on her to be tip top shape and can not
*stick it out* with her.

but she pooped last night. a couple of hours after her evening meal.. which
she cleaned up.. it was beef hamburger, beef burger with organ (kidney /
liver ) and green tripe (cow gut, lung and spleen)

at least the stinky poozes have ended.. they were so rank that in the middle
of the night i thought she had died. (dogs when they die their bowls let
go) she is 9.6 yrs old. and the other sdog here died suddenly just keeled
over dead. his heart had exploded.

--
Josephine MorningStar & Heather, Pyr, Mobility & MASD
Native American in Massachusetts

Never threaten anyone. It ruins the surprise.
www.apachecreations.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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Feed Pets Raw Food

Sunday, September 30, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12097

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