[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12092

There are 21 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: 2yr old dog new to raw, sick
From: Giselle

2a. Re: Questions about Pork
From: linoleum5017
2b. Re: Questions about Pork
From: carnesbill

3a. Re: Thin Dog
From: Shannon Parker
3b. Re: Thin Dog
From: sueandsheepie

4a. Re: Puppy evaluation/admonished for feeding raw
From: Giselle
4b. Re: Puppy evaluation/admonished for feeding raw
From: cypressbunny
4c. Re: Puppy evaluation/admonished for feeding raw
From: Caren OConnor
4d. Re: Puppy evaluation/admonished for feeding raw
From: Caren OConnor

5a. Re: What to do?
From: cypressbunny

6a. Re: How many people out there have been feeding raw for 10 years or
From: Giselle
6b. Re: How many people out there have been feeding raw for 10 years or
From: cypressbunny

7a. Re: New member - probably silly question
From: Morledzep@aol.com
7b. Re: New member - probably silly question
From: T Smith

8a. Re: new to raw with a question
From: Giselle

9a. Re: 13 years feeding raw
From: Maofryan@aol.com
9b. Re: 13 years feeding raw
From: Howard Salob

10a. Re: Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
From: caroline gebbie

11. another runny poo question
From: sillypoodle2003

12a. German Shepherd Overwieght
From: nasseralkhalifa
12b. Re: German Shepherd Overwieght
From: carnesbill

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: 2yr old dog new to raw, sick
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:28 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Kay!
I'm not sure what experience you have feeding raw, or what
'flavor' of raw feeding you have ascribed to, or what research you
have done.

This list supports a species appropriate raw whole prey model diet.

A lot of people who post to this list for help seem to have an
exaggerated conception of the importance of bones to a dog's health
and nourishment. The example guideline we recommend for new-to-raw
people to begin with is;
80% meat - this is muscle, skin, fat, fur, connective tissue.
only 10% bone - EDIBLE, digestible bone
10% organs - 5% liver, the rest a variety of other organs.
As you can see, bone, consumable bone is a very small, but important
part of the whole.

Thinking RMBs, instead of whole prey or a variety of animal parts that
emulate whole prey which is mostly meatymeat can be detrimental to
planning and feeding a healthy optimum diet.

Dogs, especially dogs who are new to raw, can hork up undigested or
indigestible bone. Chicken backs and turkey necks are waaay too bony
to feed regularly without adding lots of meatymeat. Buffalo ribs are
also way too bony as a stand alone meal. And, depending on your foster
dog's size and ability (or eventual ability) to digest bone, they may
be too hard for her to consume, or digest.

The following links will help you to refocus your feeding plan, also
with shopping for meat cuts. You may want to print this out and
highlight relevant information;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374

post # 141374

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/meatcharts.html

A day's fast may be helpful, and offering plenty of fresh water and
maybe even some low salt broth. Slippery Elm Bark Powder can soothe an
irritated digestive system. More information about fasting and using
SEBP is in the first link above.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I recently converted a foster dog I have to the raw diet. Her teeth
> had a good amount of plaque, coat not good, etc. Her teeth are
> looking great - white for the first time!
>
> However, she's having bouts of vomiting. I don't remember how many
> weeks it's been since I switched her. Maybe 3.
<snip>
Then today she's barfed everywhere, liquid &
> grass.
<snip>
> Any thoughts? I'd like to be able to rule out the raw diet.: )
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kay

Messages in this topic (5)
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2a. Re: Questions about Pork
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:33 pm ((PDT))

Bill,

I have appreciated your wisdom since I began reading these posts....

a word of caution about dogs chasing deer: I read that a number of
dogs have bled to death (in minutes) from severed tongues because deer
kick them in the mouth.

Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
>
> Well ... Abby does occasionally when she's chasing a deer but never
to chase cows. I always wonder what would happen if she finally did
catch a deer. :) :) :)

Messages in this topic (9)
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2b. Re: Questions about Pork
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:57 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "linoleum5017" <linoleum5017@...>
wrote:
>
> a word of caution about dogs chasing deer: I read that a number
of
> dogs have bled to death (in minutes) from severed tongues
> because deer
> kick them in the mouth.

I'm glad you brought that up. Many people say wolves don't live
such long lives in the wild. One reason for that is their food can
actually kill them.

As for my dogs chasing deer ... I don't think either one has been
within 50' of a deer. :) They just can't get that close. I think
if my Thor were to actually catch a deer, he would run in front to
get the deer to chase him. He loves to be chased. :) :) :) He does
this a lot with Abby. He will chase her and when he catches her he
passes her so now she is chasing him. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (9)
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3a. Re: Thin Dog
Posted by: "Shannon Parker" mrbatisse@yahoo.ca mrbatisse
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:33 pm ((PDT))

Hi Crystal,

Well, I guess when it comes down to it, every dog no matter what the breed is different. I have a friend with an 9 year old bassett who could out run most dogs on any given day. A thin, year old boston doesn't worry me too much. Is he neutered? That could make a difference...if he was, then I might get a bit suspicious. I agree with the other poster that hypothyroidism could be a concern. It's an easy test to get done...a simple blood test. If he tests normal, then I'd say you just have yourself a very laid back boy. As the owner of a greyhound and an Argentine Dogo (both lazier than you can imagine) sounds like a perfect dog to me!

Shannon

CRYSTAL <cryrolfe@msn.com> wrote:

He has always been very lethargic by nature....very laid back and low
key...reminds me of a Bassett.

My vet says some dogs are just lean and his lethargic nature may also
be just natural.
I know some dogs don't fill out til they're about 2yrs old sometimes.

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Messages in this topic (5)
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3b. Re: Thin Dog
Posted by: "sueandsheepie" yomama109@comcast.net sueandsheepie
Date: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:10 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "CRYSTAL" <cryrolfe@...> wrote:
>
> I have a Boston terrier. He is a little bit over a year old and has
> always been on a raw diet. He mostly eats chicken and beef and fish
> once a week. he's
> 18lbs.
> His stools look fine.
> He seems to be very lean to me. I can see his ribs slightly and he
> doesn't have a lot of muscle.
> He has always been very lethargic by nature...> My vet says some dogs are just lean and
his lethargic nature may also
> be just natural.
> I know some dogs don't fill out til they're about 2yrs old sometimes.
>
> I guess I'm just a worrier, but is there anything more I should be
> giving him to help put on some weight?
> Are there some tests that I should maybe get for him?
>
>
>
Dear Crystal,
After reading your post I went back an reread the BT AKC standard. Had forgotten
that the breed has weight classes. The weights go from <15/15 to <20/20 to
no>25lbs. So, your little guy at 18lbs might just be the perfect middle weight. They also
emphasize muscles to balance bone to create the sturdy, square, balanced dog.
I think that Bill is right on when he says to get him out and exercise him (not just a
walk!).
Course I sometimes think we are like our dogs - are you happier sitting in the sun,
reading, rather than playing tennis? No contest for me and I have to work and be creative
not to have a chub club around here.
Take a look at a dog that is REALLY thin - their ribs show, hip bones and scapulae may
protrude and, if not worked like greyhounds, they will have no visible muscle in their
shoulder, topline, rump or stifle.
You will get a definite comparison.
If your dog still remains lethargic (standard says "lively") you might contact yours or
another breeder and ask about this characteristic - good breeders are usually pretty
knowledgeable about various types of temperaments that show up in their breed and if
your type is unusual, what tests you could ask your vet to do. They are a whole lot cheaper
(usually free and quite pleasant about it) than your vet!

Good Luck. Joan, the maniacal herders; the lazy, old Cocker and the Shi Tzu with a Rottie
attitude.

Messages in this topic (5)
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4a. Re: Puppy evaluation/admonished for feeding raw
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:56 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Caren!
If this were my litter, I would be much more likely to
discount this AKC judges evaluation, considering her bias against raw.

If I were at all doubtful, and to prove to myself and this person that
she was mistaken, I would either have a different conformation person
eval my pups, without giving any diet info first, or take them to an
orthopedic vet, for a structural eval.

You shouldn't let one person's opinion, no matter their standing in
the dog fancy, skewed by their bias against your feeding choice to
lead you to doubt your pups healthy growth and your feeding philosophy.

This AKC judge sees kibble fed pups and dogs most of the time. How can
she accurately evaaluate raw fed pups or dogs if she has such a
slanted base for her expert opinion?

TC
Giselle

> Giselle -
> She did suggest a grain free kibble or to reduce total calories.
I can't see myself switching over from raw so will feed less.
> She did say that a couple of dogs in the other litter being
evaluated were slight because they were not processing their food
properly. That litter is ki**le fed.
> Thanks so much for your insightful response. I must remind myself
I went for a structure evaluation not a nutritional evaluation but
somehow, I know the two are inseparable.
> Caren O'Connor
> Nansemond Cavaliers

Messages in this topic (13)
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4b. Re: Puppy evaluation/admonished for feeding raw
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:18 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Caren OConnor <cavkist@...> wrote:
>
> Giselle -
> She did suggest a grain free kibble or to reduce total calories.

*** Calories may cause weight gain, but total calories have nothing
to do with bone structure (except that fat dogs/pups put more
pressure on growing bones/joints).

> I can't see myself switching over from raw so will feed less.

*** If the pups are pudgy, feed less, but otherwise, don't.

> I must remind myself I went for a structure evaluation not a
nutritional evaluation but somehow, I know the two are inseparable.

*** It's true the two go hand in hand, but an evaluation should be
strictly on the pups, and not on their diet/husbandry/heritage. That
being said, a judge used to evaluating Doom Nugget- (how I love to
see other people using my term for kibble!) fed pups might find
properly fed pups to be smaller/less developed.

*** I rather doubt that you are feeding too much bone. Too much
calcium in the kibblefed pup can cause pano and other bone
abnormalities, but in the rawfed pup, excess bone (within reason) is
generally excreted in the stool. Too little bone in the rawfed pup
can also cause bowing out, so I would make sure the pups are eating
at minimum 10% bone by weight, and preferably closer to 15%. Unless
they were eating really a lot of bone, as in more than 25%, I doubt
bone content had anything to do with the supposed weakness in your
girl.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (13)
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4c. Re: Puppy evaluation/admonished for feeding raw
Posted by: "Caren OConnor" cavkist@yahoo.com cavkist
Date: Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:44 am ((PDT))

Carrie -

Carrie -

That being said, a judge used to evaluating Doom Nugget- (how I love to
see other people using my term for kibble!) fed pups might find
properly fed pups to be smaller/less developed.

I actually thought the same myself. Again, no knee-jerk reactions here. I'm going to continue on my raw feeding path.

Excess calcium from the bone is always excreted in the stool? Can you confirm?
Thanks:)
Caren O'Connor
Nansemond Cavaliers

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Messages in this topic (13)
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4d. Re: Puppy evaluation/admonished for feeding raw
Posted by: "Caren OConnor" cavkist@yahoo.com cavkist
Date: Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:44 am ((PDT))

Giselle -
I do believe she knows structure like "the back of her hand" and, since this is my first litter and I'm wanting to breed better structure, I truly wanted an "expert" opinion.
I have no problem with her evaluation, because structure is an objective finding. You can see it, once you know what you're looking for. And, honestly, I learned volumes about what structure should be in all canines whether they are a working dog, sporting dog, or toy. They are, after all, canines.
I did learn something else, which is next time omit what I feed or lie about it. My pups were healthy, robust, with luscious little coats while the doom nugget (love that too) fed litter had two who were obviously not nutritionally well.
She even mentioned that someone on the west coast had monitored raw fed dogs and found that their coats were more coarse. Now that is HOGWASH! She totally showed me her bias!
No worries, I'm not about to let someone who knows more information in other areas about dogs influence me on what I know about the best diet for dogs:)
Bless you for helping me out here:)
Caren O'Connor
Nansemond Cavaliers

Giselle <megan.giselle@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, Caren!
If this were my litter, I would be much more likely to
discount this AKC judges evaluation, considering her bias against raw.

If I were at all doubtful, and to prove to myself and this person that
she was mistaken, I would either have a different conformation person
eval my pups, without giving any diet info first, or take them to an
orthopedic vet, for a structural eval.

You shouldn't let one person's opinion, no matter their standing in
the dog fancy, skewed by their bias against your feeding choice to
lead you to doubt your pups healthy growth and your feeding philosophy.

This AKC judge sees kibble fed pups and dogs most of the time. How can
she accurately evaaluate raw fed pups or dogs if she has such a
slanted base for her expert opinion?

TC
Giselle

> Giselle -
> She did suggest a grain free kibble or to reduce total calories.
I can't see myself switching over from raw so will feed less.
> She did say that a couple of dogs in the other litter being
evaluated were slight because they were not processing their food
properly. That litter is ki**le fed.
> Thanks so much for your insightful response. I must remind myself
I went for a structure evaluation not a nutritional evaluation but
somehow, I know the two are inseparable.
> Caren O'Connor
> Nansemond Cavaliers

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Messages in this topic (13)
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5a. Re: What to do?
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:27 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "rottincherrie" <rottincherrie@...>
wrote:
> 1.) Too expensive (my sister is going to a private college and my dad
> bought a new car)

*** When the Doom Nugget eating dog needs veterinary care to clean the
nasty teeth and handle the other diseases that are the inevitable
result of feeding crap, will Dad refrain from wasting money on vet
bills?

> 2.) Gross

*** I'm afraid I think kibble is gross and totally nasty, while I
think raw meat is healthy and nutritious. So I don't get the gross
part of it at all. Does he know what goes into kibble?

> 3.) He will get sick and die from food poisoning

*** Is Dad planning to start eating raw himself? Does he not know how
to bathe properly and wash his hands? Does your dog not lick his
behind?

> And by then he has stopped talking and refuses to say anything more.

*** There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

> How to convince him? Our dog eats KIBBLE, poor dog! I don't know what
> to do!

*** I suppose you could start by telling dear old dad about what goes
into kibble. A book to get started would be Foods Pets Die For by Ann
Martin.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (3)
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6a. Re: How many people out there have been feeding raw for 10 years or
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:38 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Peter!
This list is nearly 10,000 strong, and includes people from
all over the world. Most people, I think, once they are comfortable
feeding raw, just fade into RL, and come back to lurk here only
occasionally, or check in when they have a new pup, or dog, or
encounter a problem that they don't know how to deal with.

You don't seem to be taking into account the real people, the
volunteers, who read and respond to the "Help, I'm new, how do I
start?" or other newbie Qs daily. Quite a few are long time raw feeders.

There have been several topics recently that ask about list member's
and their raw fed dog's longevity - it seems to come up about once a
month - maybe you could search the archives.

About 15 years for me. I have 'done' rescues since my switch to raw,
so I can't answer that question. But, I've had 2 Newfies live to 15 &
16yo, after being switched over to raw at about 10yo. Their life
expectancy is usually quoted as 6-8 yo, as are most giant breeds.
TC
Giselle

> It seems most of the people that are doing raw are relatively new at it,
> new being less than 5 years. I know there are some of you on this list
> that have been feeding raw for much longer and I would like to know
> how the dogs or doing in the long run. How many dogs are there out
> there that have ate raw from puppy hood to death?

> pete

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: How many people out there have been feeding raw for 10 years or
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:51 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> Most people, I think, once they are comfortable
> feeding raw, just fade into RL

*** Giselle is totally right. The folks on the list that have been
feeding raw less than 5 years are generally active here because they
are paying it forward. There are list members who have been feeding
raw for many many years, but have burned out from answering the same
questions day after day, month after month, year after year.
Fortunately, the beginner concepts can be easily handled by folks that
have been feeding raw for only a few months or years.

*** In short, there are lots of list members that have been feeding
raw for more than 10 years, for multiple generations of purebred dogs,
and even for multiple human generations. Most of those folks posted in
years past (sadly yahoo only keeps posts for 4 years or so), but you
can't blame them for not reading and responding to every new post
demanding to hear from people who have been feeding raw for a long
time. After all, Nature has been feeding raw to dogs for about a
million years, and it seems to have worked.

*** For those long time raw feeders who *do* answer every newbie
demand for long term rawfeeders, THANKS!

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (5)
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7a. Re: New member - probably silly question
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:20 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/28/2007 10:56:07 AM Pacific Standard Time,
coldbeach@gmail.com writes:

So, what do you think is better to feed than a chicken quarter because that
will not work for my 98 pound Dal. Unless I chop it.

Trina,

then you opt for more complicated food and larger food.. like half chickens
or turkey parts.

chopping is not the answer, making the food more complicated is.

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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Messages in this topic (15)
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7b. Re: New member - probably silly question
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:55 am ((PDT))

Thank you very much. We bought several whole chickens tonight & about 120
pounds of chicken legs, thighs, parts.....
Mind you, I feed 3 Danes & one 98 lb Dal so we use at least 11 pounds a day
for now. Eventually the other 5 dogs here will be on RAW too.
I bought the whole chickens for my Dal so he did have to work harder (see, I
do listen *smile*)
Thank you.
We add about an ounce of liver per feeding after a week?
I got the ground beef for their pills.
Hopefully I got it right. We are on Day 3 & just feeding the chicken. All
the dogs are seeming to love the food now!
I've joined a few groups to try to get more food and a cheaper cost &
putting the word out to people what we are looking for (hunters, people
cleaning out freezers, etc).....
I think buying bags of k***le was 'easy' for everyone here in the family
because it was bought & lasted a month but buying RAW shows initial cost
which seems to be the first kind of 'shock' because it takes up more room
(freezer, fridge, etc) so it takes some getting used to for others here. &
it takes thinking to buy it :-)
Trina
http://myspace.com/coldbeach

On 9/28/07, Morledzep@aol.com <Morledzep@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 9/28/2007 10:56:07 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> coldbeach@gmail.com <coldbeach%40gmail.com> writes:
>
> So, what do you think is better to feed than a chicken quarter because
> that
> will not work for my 98 pound Dal. Unless I chop it.
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (15)
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8a. Re: new to raw with a question
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:03 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Arlene!
Wiki says;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demodex
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mange
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mites
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Hello everyone I have the six AB's that have been on raw for two weeks
> now, I have been reading the messages and came across the one about
> demodex my question is what is demodex?
>
> Arlene
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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9a. Re: 13 years feeding raw
Posted by: "Maofryan@aol.com" Maofryan@aol.com waldorfsarah
Date: Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:44 am ((PDT))

Peter
I have been feeding raw for 13 years. I am a professional breeder. I
breed German Shepherd Dogs (from Germany) English Mastiffs and Bull terriers.
My Mastiffs and Bull terriers show. My Shepherds work. I bred 4 dogs that
searched at the World Trade Center, a Mastiff with 148 Best of Breeds and the
#3 Bull Terrier (all-breed) in the US. My puppies are weaned on goat's milk,
and minced meat...and move on to wings and necks by 4-5 weeks. My puppy
people get a copy of "Give your dog a bone" by Billinghurst, when they get a
puppy (to either read or keep). I encourage raw feeding...although I do not
demand it....as everyone has their own learning curve. I can't even read all the
emails I get...let alone answer them. I can say that raw is the way to go.
I have few medical problems....my dogs look and do well. My show dogs do
extremely well...my work dogs have stamina, breed robustly, have good litters
that raise easily.

When you see the Best In Show line-up at Westminster, I can tell you 50%
of those dogs are eating raw....not Pedigree. Rufus (I have a Rufus son) is
a raw dog. There are countless others. Showing is hard on a dog....very
hard. Raw helps them manage the stress, contition changes, travel and exposure
to disease. Good luck to all...we are lurking. Sarah Waldorf, Konigsdorf
Shepherds

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: 13 years feeding raw
Posted by: "Howard Salob" itiskismet1968@yahoo.com itiskismet1968
Date: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:48 am ((PDT))

Dear MAofryan,

Loved your e-mail. Would love to see more people like this.Testimonials for dogs that have a lot of responsibility(rescue dogs) as well as show dogs. If it works for them then it works for my little old doxie.

Sincerely,

Howard

Maofryan@aol.com wrote:
Peter
I have been feeding raw for 13 years. I am a professional breeder. I
breed German Shepherd Dogs (from Germany) English Mastiffs and Bull terriers.
My Mastiffs and Bull terriers show. My Shepherds work. I bred 4 dogs that
searched at the World Trade Center, a Mastiff with 148 Best of Breeds and the
#3 Bull Terrier (all-breed) in the US. My puppies are weaned on goat's milk,
and minced meat...and move on to wings and necks by 4-5 weeks. My puppy
people get a copy of "Give your dog a bone" by Billinghurst, when they get a
puppy (to either read or keep). I encourage raw feeding...although I do not
demand it....as everyone has their own learning curve. I can't even read all the
emails I get...let alone answer them. I can say that raw is the way to go.
I have few medical problems....my dogs look and do well. My show dogs do
extremely well...my work dogs have stamina, breed robustly, have good litters
that raise easily.

When you see the Best In Show line-up at Westminster, I can tell you 50%
of those dogs are eating raw....not Pedigree. Rufus (I have a Rufus son) is
a raw dog. There are countless others. Showing is hard on a dog....very
hard. Raw helps them manage the stress, contition changes, travel and exposure
to disease. Good luck to all...we are lurking. Sarah Waldorf, Konigsdorf
Shepherds

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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10a. Re: Feeding pills in RAW/Temperment & RAW
Posted by: "caroline gebbie" caz320ml@yahoo.com caz320ml
Date: Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:45 am ((PDT))

Pill pockets never work for my fussy dog, what I used was a small piece of a cheese slice. They are so sticky they stick to the pill.

Caroline, Bonnie and Londo

Laura Atkinson <llatkinson@gmail.com> wrote:
Heck, I use Pill Pockets (tm) that I order or buy at PetSmart. Life's too
short to worry that hard about little things like what to wrap around a
pill.

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell

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Messages in this topic (13)
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11. another runny poo question
Posted by: "sillypoodle2003" angels_mom73@hotmail.com sillypoodle2003
Date: Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:47 am ((PDT))

my mom's dog (schipperke, 8 y/o, altered) has been having poop
issues. now, a little background. he was kibble fed up until about
december last year when she grudgingly started feeding prairie
preground along with kibble. then, went to totally raw about a month
later. was feeding preground along with chicken legs or thighs. now,
he is on real raw, eating chicken quarters, pork, beef ect. now, they
both (my dog, mini poo, almost 2, unaltered, rawfed sinse about 10
months old) get alot of chicken due to our budget right now. the
schipperke (comet) almost always has runny poo after eating lately.
it is the color and consistency of chocolate pudding. he eats about a
half a leg quarter, then will go and drink a bunch of water. later in
the night, he has runny poo on the floor. wondering if we should
limit his water intake? also, his belly feels very hard and bloated
and he wont eat for 2 days. this is just with chicken. my mother
seems to think that there is some connection between him eating part
of the back which is attatched to the leg quarter. so my questions
are:
1. do you all think this is a variety problem, being that their main
diet is chicken?
2. how do i correct the "bloating" problem? someone suggested
probiotics/or yogurt?
i know variety is key, and we do our best.

thanks all in advance,
kelly, zeke(i'm fine mommy, wheres my chicken??) and comet, (ugh, my
tummy hurts, sorry i made a mess on the floor)

Messages in this topic (1)
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12a. German Shepherd Overwieght
Posted by: "nasseralkhalifa" nasseralkhalifa@yahoo.com nasseralkhalifa
Date: Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:05 am ((PDT))

I have just moved to raw and have had my GSD 3 month puppy for about a
month. At first she didn't gain weight and when I dewormed her she
started gaining a lot of weight. My question is how much should I feed
her? I can't recall but I remember seeing that you should feed a puppy
2-3% of their grown weight. Since she is growing she may need it I
guess but will it affect her structure to carry all theat weight at
such a small age.

Nasser

Messages in this topic (2)
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12b. Re: German Shepherd Overwieght
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:20 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "nasseralkhalifa"
<nasseralkhalifa@...> wrote:
>
> My question is how much should I feed
> her? I can't recall but I remember seeing that you should feed
> a puppy 2-3% of their grown weight. Since she is growing she
> may need it I guess but will it affect her structure to carry
> all theat weight at such a small age.

She shouldn't be carrying "all that weight" anytime. The 2-3%
number is only a starting point. You should always guage your
dog/pup's build and weight and adjust the volume of food intake
accordingly. Puppies should be kept on the thin side. Thin is
healthier than "chubby". If she is chubby, feed her less and
exercize her more.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

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