Feed Pets Raw Food: [rawfeeding] Digest Number 12082

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Getting the cat on board
From: Anita
1b. Re: Getting the cat on board
From: Casey Post
1c. Re: Getting the cat on board
From: Francine-Texas
1d. Re: Getting the cat on board
From: Andrea

2a. Re: re freezing bones
From: Andrea
2b. Re: re freezing bones
From: caroline gebbie

3a. Re: Clarification on proper food amount
From: Andrea
3b. Re: Clarification on proper food amount
From: carnesbill

4a. Re: Link between high protein diets and "hyper" behavior?
From: Misty Sargent
4b. Re: Link between high protein diets and "hyper" behavior?
From: eyed_blue

5a. Is my dog starving?
From: qsgirl916
5b. Re: Is my dog starving?
From: Misty Sargent
5c. Re: Is my dog starving?
From: Andrea

6.1. Re: New to Raw
From: Andrea
6.2. Re: New to Raw
From: aliciamyan

7a. raw meat only
From: starcos
7b. Re: raw meat only
From: Andrea
7c. Re: raw meat only
From: Francine-Texas

8a. Re: Pancreatitis
From: DPM333@aol.com

9a. Re: New to the group/questions
From: Kathie Middlemiss
9b. Re: New to the group/questions
From: Laura Atkinson

10a. Re: Link between high protein diets and "hyper" behavior?
From: Kathleen

11a. new to feeding raw
From: maxieii

12a. Re: Fish and fur and other friends?
From: costrowski75

13. Puppies - Re: [rawfeeding] Re: New to the group/questions
From: Laura Atkinson

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Getting the cat on board
Posted by: "Anita" craftyhoosiermama@gmail.com anita42776
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:03 am ((PDT))

Ok so we started Pearl on the raw diet about a week ago and we love
it. It is soooo much easier now that I'm not worrying myself with
supplements and grains and veggies;)
So far she's only had chicken and eggs but I hope to pick up some
chicken liver and slowly introduce that in the next week.
Now I want to get the cat on board too but I have a few questions.
I gave Oskar a little bit of meat with some small bones and he really
seemed to like it till Pearl came in and stole it right out from under
him.
I plan to start Oskar on the chicken too but I'm wondering what about
the rest of the stuff? Should he get a full egg or should I only give
him half of one when we start to introduce it? What about cuts and
amounts? He's an over weight cat at about 13 lbs. How should I manage
his weight loss with the raw diet?
TIA
Anita

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: Getting the cat on board
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:49 am ((PDT))

> I plan to start Oskar on the chicken too but I'm wondering what about
> the rest of the stuff?

Cats generally do well on a lot of variety right up front. Don't be shy
about trying anything and everything with him!

>Should he get a full egg or should I only give
> him half of one when we start to introduce it?

As with dogs, not all cats like or tolerate eggs - I'd offer him a bit and
see what he thinks and go from there.

>What about cuts and
> amounts?

Any cut that works for the dog will generally work for the cat, but keep in
mind that they do need smaller bones, especially in the early days when
they're still building up jaw strength.

>He's an over weight cat at about 13 lbs. How should I manage
> his weight loss with the raw diet?

You shouldn't - not at first. Weight loss in a fat cat is a dodgy thing
because of the risk of hepatic lipidosis. So early on, you want to get him
eating and eating *well*. Only after he's solidly on raw and a confirmed
good eater do you even want to think about weight loss for him ... and even
then, you want a VERY gradual loss.

You may want to check out www.rawfedcats.org for tips and tricks on
switching cats.

Casey

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: Getting the cat on board
Posted by: "Francine-Texas" francie43@sbcglobal.net fcampinose
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:58 am ((PDT))

OK I missed something we also feed eggs to dog? If how much?
Francine
Learning

-------Original Message-------

From: Casey Post
Date: 9/27/2007 9:49:04 AM
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] Getting the cat on board

> I plan to start Oskar on the chicken too but I'm wondering what about
> the rest of the stuff?

Cats generally do well on a lot of variety right up front. Don't be shy
About trying anything and everything with him!

>Should he get a full egg or should I only give
> him half of one when we start to introduce it?

As with dogs, not all cats like or tolerate eggs - I'd offer him a bit and
See what he thinks and go from there.

>What about cuts and
> amounts?

Any cut that works for the dog will generally work for the cat, but keep in
Mind that they do need smaller bones, especially in the early days when
They're still building up jaw strength.

>He's an over weight cat at about 13 lbs. How should I manage
> his weight loss with the raw diet?

You shouldn't - not at first. Weight loss in a fat cat is a dodgy thing
Because of the risk of hepatic lipidosis. So early on, you want to get him
Eating and eating *well*. Only after he's solidly on raw and a confirmed
Good eater do you even want to think about weight loss for him ... And even
Then, you want a VERY gradual loss.

You may want to check out www.rawfedcats.org for tips and tricks on
Switching cats.

Casey

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: Getting the cat on board
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:00 am ((PDT))

"Anita" <craftyhoosiermama@...> wrote:

> I gave Oskar a little bit of meat with some small bones and he
really
> seemed to like

Ok, well you have jumped the biggest hurdle already: the cat ate the
food. Some of us (me included) have cats that took about a year to
completely switch over. The fact that he tried it is great!

> I plan to start Oskar on the chicken too but I'm wondering what
about
> the rest of the stuff?

Unlike dogs, cats seem to do best when offered a variety right off.
Some cats can't stand chicken, some love pork, some always vomit
beef. You'll have to try lots of little samples for your cat to see
what he likes or thinks is poison. One of my cats will now eat a
bone in chicken leg or thigh without a problem, but the other two
refuse to try anything that large. There is a sister list, rawcat
that is dedicated specifically to cats since they can so often be a
huge PITA to switch.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawcat

> He's an over weight cat at about 13 lbs. How should I manage
> his weight loss with the raw diet?

Above all, make sure he is eating every day. Cats, especially
overweight cats, *must* eat something every day. Unlike dogs, you
can't just wait out a cat until he eats his liver, cats can get a
liver disease, HL, that is really hard to recover from. Let the cat
eat what he will and then slowly reduce the amount of food he gets
down the road. You'll be so happy with the soft coat of a rawfed cat!

Andrea

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: re freezing bones
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:04 am ((PDT))

A frozen meaty bone is fine, but marrow bones of any kind are another
story. The "marrow" bone is usually one of the leg bones that holds up
a cow while it is alive so it has to be extremely dense. So dense, in
fact, it can fracture or break a dog's teeth. I would advise finding
something safer like a cow's foot or leg with meat and sinew on it so
you can let the dogs tear off the meat etc. and toss it out before they
start chewing on the bone itself.

On the general idea of freezing, thawing, and refreezing food it is
perfectly ok. The only reason we don't do it for humans is
freezing/refreezing changes the texture of foods and we don't like it.
Dogs don't care.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, caroline gebbie <caz320ml@...> wrote:
>
> Is it ok to take a bone etc out of the freezer (large marrow bone
> with lots of meat) and let the dogs go at it for a while and then
> refreeze, let them have it and refreeze etc.

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: re freezing bones
Posted by: "caroline gebbie" caz320ml@yahoo.com caz320ml
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:36 am ((PDT))

Thanks Andrea

I will look for bigger pieces

Caroline, Bonnie and Londo

Andrea <poketmouse45@yahoo.com> wrote:

Andrea

Recent Activity

119
New Members

Visit Your Group
Drive Traffic
Sponsored Search
can help increase
your site traffic.

Real Food Group
Share recipes,
restaurant ratings
and favorite meals.

Yoga Groups
Exchange insights
with members of
the yoga community.

---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: Clarification on proper food amount
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:04 am ((PDT))

How does your pup look? Unless he looks too thin I wouldn't change the
amount of food he gets. You're right that you don't want a rolly polly
pup so I wouldn't adjust his amount of food until it looks like he
needs it.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Kathie Middlemiss <geekgirl717@...>
wrote:

> I anticipated a 65-75 pound dog and ended up with a moose instead!!
> So, I want to clarify that I should be feeding Max 2 pounds a day
> because that's his 2% of his new anticipated adult weight, or
> should I be feeding him 3 pounds a day because it's 10% of his
> current weight OR do I feed him 1.5 pounds a day because that's
> the weight he was originally said to be?

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: Clarification on proper food amount
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:06 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Kathie Middlemiss
<geekgirl717@...> wrote:
>
> So, I want to clarify that I should be feeding Max 2 pounds a day
> because that's his 2% of his new anticipated adult weight,
> or should I
> be feeding him 3 pounds a day because it's 10% of his
> current weight OR
> do I feed him 1.5 pounds a day because that's the weight he was
> originally said to be?

If it were my pup, I would feed something close to the 1.5lbs/day
and keep an eye on his build. If he gets too thin, feed more ...
too fat, feed less. His build will tell you how much to feed.
Remember you want him on the thin side.

> As a puppy I want to make certain I'm giving him everything
> he needs.

Feed a variety of animal parts from a variety of animals and all
will be ok. ;) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: Link between high protein diets and "hyper" behavior?
Posted by: "Misty Sargent" jrtlover27@yahoo.com jrtlover27
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:04 am ((PDT))

A high protein diet will generally give a dog more energy and stamina, but that is how they are supposed to be. If there weren't like that, they never would survive in the wild. It sounds like to me that the other dogs could be this way for one of many reasons:

-They haven't been properly socialized and don't get regular interaction with other dogs so the others are just too much for them to handle.
-They don't get out much. LOL.
-They are suffering the effects of all the toxins they are ingesting in their kibble, and it is wreaking havoc on their system to the point where they can't calm down and concentrate.
-They simply have not been worked with at home. The owner expects the one hour of obedience class to do the job and doesn't practice with them at home.

Just some ideas. I'm sure others will have some suggestions as well.

Misty

dogladyme <ooblab@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi all- I'm currently taking an obedience class with my 6 m/o male GSD.
There are 6 other dogs in the class including a spitz and an aussie,
who bark and carry on for almost the whole hour of class, pretty much
totally distracted the whole time.

The instructor- who I feel handles all these dogs very well and teaches
with a clicker and only positive strategies- encouraged these owners-
who are all feeding kibble- to switch to some other food with a lower
percentage of protein. She knows that I feed my guy raw and as she was
making this suggestion to these other owners, looked at me and my guy,
who was calmly lying on the floor in the midst of all this chaos, and
was very perplexed because he ONLY gets protein.

Can anyone comment on this idea that high protein diets may make some
dogs "hyper"?

Thanks! Mary

---------------------------------
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: Link between high protein diets and "hyper" behavior?
Posted by: "eyed_blue" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:36 am ((PDT))

When my pup was on dry pet food he was hyper, for example he went to
a 2 hour obedience class(he had as much energy the second hour as
the first)then played for a while with one dog, then chased two
German Shepherds around the same age for at least half an hour, the
GSD's had had enough and jumped in the owners car, my pup (about 6
months old at the time)was still running around the park not wanting
to be 'caught'
He didn't stop there either.

This was typical and it was after a whole day on the go. I noticed a
big difference when I switched him to raw feeding,within a few meals
he had just as much energy but he was able to 'switch off' certain
behaviours and calm down.

My trainer had suggested low protein food at the time. Only reason
given was that protein gives them energy, so less protein less
hyper......

Natalie

Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Is my dog starving?
Posted by: "qsgirl916" qsgirl916@yahoo.com qsgirl916
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:04 am ((PDT))

I'm on day 2 and a half with the raw diet. Corgi is still chowing away
at every meal. Greyhound mix is still snubbing her food at every meal.
I put it down, wait 20-30 minutes and put it away again.

She isn't whining or behaving in any way to indicate that she's
starving, but like most (I hope most anyway)doggie moms, I'm feeling
terrible. It has been so tough not to give in and give her something
not raw just so I know she's eating something.

I guess I just need some encouraging feedback. She isn't starving,
right? She'll break down soon and dig in to her food bowl, right?

It's hard to tell with her. She's a great dog - extremely laid back
and, compared to her Corgi companion, in no way a drama queen.

How do I know when enough is enough and it's time to try something else?

Sarah

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: Is my dog starving?
Posted by: "Misty Sargent" jrtlover27@yahoo.com jrtlover27
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:34 am ((PDT))

Have you tried different kinds of meat for your Greyhound? Just wondering if maybe she is only snubbing one or two kinds of meat, or if you have tried several kinds.

Misty

qsgirl916 <qsgirl916@yahoo.com> wrote:
I'm on day 2 and a half with the raw diet. Corgi is still chowing away
at every meal. Greyhound mix is still snubbing her food at every meal.
I put it down, wait 20-30 minutes and put it away again.

I guess I just need some encouraging feedback. She isn't starving,
right? She'll break down soon and dig in to her food bowl, right?

It's hard to tell with her. She's a great dog - extremely laid back
and, compared to her Corgi companion, in no way a drama queen.

How do I know when enough is enough and it's time to try something else?

Sarah

---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

5c. Re: Is my dog starving?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:36 am ((PDT))

No, she isn't starving, she's just trying to train you (=
Make sure she isn't getting any treats between feedings and don't
fret when you put down her food. A lot of the time we
unintentionally make things worse because we are stressing about them
not eating and they pick up on it. Just relax, you aren't being a
bad mom.

Since you have tried a couple of times to no avail, you might try
making the food more interesting. Before you feed her next time, cut
slices into the meat and sprinkle some parmesan cheese in the
cracks. The smell might make her more interested in the food. But
if she still doesn't want it, don't worry. Just read a book or watch
some tv for the 20 minutes. Some dogs go four days before they
finally give in and eat what is given them. Remember that wolves
routinely go days without food and dogs are just wolves in pretty
coats, so don't worry.

Keep us updated, ok?

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "qsgirl916" <qsgirl916@...> wrote:
>
> Greyhound mix is still snubbing her food at every meal.
> I put it down, wait 20-30 minutes and put it away again.
>
> She isn't whining or behaving in any way to indicate that she's
> starving, but like most (I hope most anyway)doggie moms, I'm
> feeling terrible. It has been so tough not to give in and give her
> something not raw just so I know she's eating something.

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6.1. Re: New to Raw
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:04 am ((PDT))

Paul, for the most part beef bones are just too darned dense for safe
eating. The leg bones are strong enough to hold up an extremely
heavy cow so between the bone and a dog's tooth something has to
give. Usually dogs make a good dent in the bone, but that doesn't
mean the teeth didn't get their share of damage. Lots of people on
this list stopped offering marrow bones when their dogs had teeth
broken or removed because of fractures.

That said, not all beef bones are hard enough to break teeth, but
they are super hard compared to other bones and a lot of dogs just
don't bother. When my boys get beef ribs they usually strip the meat
and cartilage off the bones and then leave them around the house.
Same thing with beef necks. As a matter of fact, I don't recall them
ever consuming a beef bone except for oxtail.

Beef bones with meat covering them are good things, they give a great
workout for the dog. The bare leg bones or knuckle bones, not so
much.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Paul Hoebing <pjhoebing@...> wrote:

> Now I'm a bit confused. Are beef bones bad for their teeth? I
thought beef bones were ok and even beneficial for cleaning because
they are so hard?

Messages in this topic (32)
________________________________________________________________________

6.2. Re: New to Raw
Posted by: "aliciamyan" alicia_larson@msn.com aliciamyan
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:35 am ((PDT))

Thank you for you timely, helpful reply Chris!

> You may WANT to have all your ducks in a row, I
> understand that urge. But really--let it go. Buy some unenhanced
> chickens, try them, buy more or buy something else. You can always
> find chicken somewhere. Several months of chicken may be required
> but I kind of doubt it.

**** Okay, I will let go of my "perfect layed plans" and go with the
flow of reality - it is just so against my nature. I will buy enough
chickens just to get started...and be ready to adjust daily, even if
it means I must change "The Plan".

> Probably the biggest issue with beef is the basic inedibility of
its bones. Pork, lamb and goat have much more approachable bones, as
> does chicken of course. So yes, if you can use beef as the staple,
> go for it...but don't forget to feed edible bone as well.
>
**** Are beef bones a "no-no"? For years, because we do have easy
access, we give them as "treats". But now I've read your post and
another post ("we don't talk about beef an awful lot because most of
the bones are inedible (tooth wreckers--too dense/hard).") and
wonder if I shouldn't be? Or is the point being made that we
shouldn't be relying on beef bones as a mainstay? Which wasn't my
thought anyway - I like using them for entertainment. The beef that
I will be using for food will be the meat I wouldn't prepare for my
family that we currently leave at the butcher - now I will be asking
to keep the "extras" (ie. heart, tongue, other organs, etc.) From
what I've read, I understand if I will be feeding non-boney beef
(hehe, say that 5x's fast), I'll need to supplement with boney meat,
like chicken. I'm catching on now!

Thanks for your patience with the newbie.
Alicia

Messages in this topic (32)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. raw meat only
Posted by: "starcos" sistergoldenhair3034@msn.com starcos
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:04 am ((PDT))

Hi, I'm new to this group and this is my first post here. I started
my Boxer and not even a year old Chihuahua on raw about 7 months ago
and my dogs are doing really well on their diet. When I started
reading on the subject I was totally overwhelmed as I'm sure alot of
you had the same experience. So I did the veggies and raw meat
basically but no vitamin or mineral supplements. I am now just
feeding them the raw meat and feel a little guilty because my dogs are
not getting the veggies. My dogs seem to be fine though. My question
is, are any of you raw feeders doing just the meat? Somewhere on my
reading I came across someone saying that raw meat was the only food
necessary for your dogs. I will appreciate any help on this matter.

eacosta

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Re: raw meat only
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:36 am ((PDT))

This list advocates a prey model raw diet and understands that dogs
are carnivores. Carnivores don't have nutritional requirements for
vegetation, so no, no veggies here. Some people feed veggies or
fruit as treats, but not as part of the diet.

And I'll have to step in and clarify that we don't feed just meat
either. Mostly meat, yes. But dogs also need some edible bone and
some organs in their diet too. Basically you want to mimic real prey
that they might eat. A guideline is 80% meat, 10% edible bone, 10%
organ.

Welcome to the group! If you have more questions, let us know.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "starcos"
<sistergoldenhair3034@...> wrote:

> I am now just feeding them the raw meat and feel a little guilty
> because my dogs are not getting the veggies. My dogs seem to be
> fine though. My question is, are any of you raw feeders doing just
> the meat?

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

7c. Re: raw meat only
Posted by: "Francine-Texas" francie43@sbcglobal.net fcampinose
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:55 am ((PDT))

***EDITED BY MODERATOR. TRIM YOUR MESSAGES PLEASE!***

Andrea what is the best type of organ meat to ad to meat.
Thank you
Francine

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: Pancreatitis
Posted by: "DPM333@aol.com" DPM333@aol.com dferris23
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:05 am ((PDT))

I do feed ground meats, beef, chicken, lamb, pork etc.. He doesn't get a
lot of whole pray cuz he guards his food & if he chokes i cant help him. But
he's getting better. The book "Mine" i have & am currently reading threw it.
Could it be from the ground meats i give him? Too high in fats? His blood
work is being done now so ill post with update when available. Thanks to
all who have responded. I love this group for all the support & knowledge.
Thanks Derek

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (25)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. Re: New to the group/questions
Posted by: "Kathie Middlemiss" geekgirl717@gmail.com katjermid
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:05 am ((PDT))

merril Woolf wrote:
>
>
> I personally, am glad that people are going back to natural feeding. I
> hope they'll start doing the same for their kids to but somehow, with
> a McDonald's on every corner, maybe not.
>
> Merril
>

This is what prompted me to look into Raw feeding for my dogs, actually.

Our family has been switching to organic foods and I have noticed a HUGE
difference in my kids because of it. My oldest was on meds for ADHD.
He had no known food allergies. We swapped to mostly organic, cut all
sodas and artificial sweetners out of our diets and guess what? No more
meds.

I love my four-footed babies as much as my two-footed babies and got to
talking to my husband about swapping the pets to organic. So we went to
organic kibble first. But even feeding that, and before I started
reading about raw diets, I wondered why my dogs needed the grains and
the fillers. It's not like a foraging dog eats that stuff anyway. Or
wolves or what have you.

It took nothing to convince my husband that raw was for us, particularly
with all of the scares because of the toxins in pet foods recently.

I'm convinced that this is the best way to feed my dogs (and kitty!), I
just need to get past the mental blocks that years of pet-food industry
crowing has stuck into my head. That, and I need to get past my
newb-osity and be less fearful about what I'm doing.

This list is great for that, and while I understand that you all must
see the same grouping of questions over and over again, I'm glad that
you all are so patient with us - the 'new parents' on board who are
worried about doing the right things for our fur-babies.

Kathie
Mom to:
Jake Lab/something mix - 6 years/98 pounds
Max Lab - 13 weeks/30 pounds
Ruby Lab/shepherd mix - 12 weeks/20-ish pounds

Messages in this topic (17)
________________________________________________________________________

9b. Re: New to the group/questions
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:05 am ((PDT))

I'll have to stand next to Chris :-) We've never had kibble in our
house, by the time the first dog moved in, I knew we were feeding raw,
there was no other option. It's been almost six years and I've never
regretted it.

On 9/26/07, costrowski75 <Chriso75@aol.com> wrote:
> *****
> I would just like to state for the record that I was not a wreck and I
> thought the sound of crunching bones was utterly amazing.
>
> I don't believe everyone is a wreck when they first feed raw. I think
> people can talk themselves into wreckness and out of it. I recommend
> talking oneself out of wreckness.
> Chris O

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell

Messages in this topic (17)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. Re: Link between high protein diets and "hyper" behavior?
Posted by: "Kathleen" kbabcock1@yahoo.com kbabcock1
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:36 am ((PDT))

There is another hyper activity - those dogs who are by nature active dogs and people who get them do not understand the breeds need for exercise-like Jack Russels, weinmeiner(spell?) etc. I am sure someone on this list has one of those. Their resultant activity from being bored has been coined everything from destructive, spiteful to hyperactive. Unfortunately a lot of these dogs are given away due to owners not being able to deal with them. I have a very active dog, who runs and runs several times a day around my large yard, she is a greyhound. One of the very Mild active dogs, but I have had some of the others, and much to my dismay, without the Internet at that time, I had nothing but trouble as I truly did not understand the breed before I adopted it. Raw feeding gives our dogs what they need, but it does not cause a behavior they already, in some form, was not already displaying.
Raw feeding is great for all dogs.....

Kathleen and TAMI (Tuxedo Greyhound)

---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. new to feeding raw
Posted by: "maxieii" maxieii@yahoo.com maxieii
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:57 am ((PDT))

Hi i just started a few weeks ago and am concerned about which kinds of cuts of meats to
give my dog...also she is picky with the raw food i give her for example i bought tongue
(pork) and she didn't eat it she at the rmb's also not crazy about kidneys or liver so I give
it to her before i give the rmb. what do you do when an animal is picky leave the food or
take it away and offer it to them the next day? Am concerned with her diet being
balanced. thanks

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12a. Re: Fish and fur and other friends?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:23 am ((PDT))

"rawnewfie" <rawnewfie@...> wrote:
>
>I know the Newf
> was fed a diet based on fish and some kind of grain meal on the
working boats of old.
*****
This does not necessarily make either fish or grain an appropriate
menu item. Newfs were bred from other dogs which were bred from
other other dogs which were bred from other dogs and when you take it
back not so far at all those dogs were bred from wolves and despite a
mere couple of centuries, Newfs are still wolves. The breed as a
whole has no unique dietary requirements. Some Newfs--just as
certain dogs of any breed--may have health issues that require
specific menu adjustments, but that's it. I assume your pup will be
well bred and healthy.

Your Newf has no nutritional need for grain and no physiologial means
of access to it. Do the kid a favor, skip the grains.

Fish can indeed be a useful and nutritious part of the diet
especially when you feed whole fish (as in intact, head to tail) but
I recommend you include other critters as well. The more red meat
you can get into your dogs the better, and you'll need to feed lovely
juicy meaty bones for the dental benefits and occasionally you'll
probably want to toss in some liver, although if you are feeding
whole fish (and you will be, no?) then you'll have most of if not all
of the liver needs covered.

Also I was thinking of trying some whole rabbits and
> game birds as I find them.
*****
The more the merrier. The wholer the better.

My sweet old retriever? I just don't see her grubbing a rabbit, She
> is more likely to mourn for it. Should I um, well... "open" it
first or something?
*****
You may have to anyway, it's hard to know beforehand how even our
youngsters will take to fur and hair. For your sweet old dog, I
recommend you feed whatever works, whenever it works, however you
need to offer it. Dear seniors deserve at least that. You might
consider keeping meals small and simple, and feed as many of them
through the day as she does best on.

> What about prey drive? My dogs have always lived amongst my garden
laying hens and
> tortoise?
*****
If they honored the hens and tortoise on kibble, they will when fed
raw. If your dogs were disrespectful hooligans on kibble, raw will
not fix the behavior. It's a training thing.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13. Puppies - Re: [rawfeeding] Re: New to the group/questions
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:18 am ((PDT))

Yes, I've had dogs (well, a dog) choke; I was feeding these perfect
plug sized pieces of pork brisket and he just sucked one in. Once he
passed out, his throat relaxed enough to pull it out. He took a
couple of deep, gasping breaths and never got one of those pieces
again. Problem solved.

Weaning puppies, keeping in mind I've only weaned one litter that
started out being bottle fed from the beginning:

At around 3 - 3 1/2 weeks, I give them a mix of ground chicken meat
and warm milk (goat, cow, didn't seem to matter) and a chicken thigh
to play with. I decrease the milk, adding ground chicken w/ bone over
the course of a week or so and by 6 weeks, they're eating a meal of
ground meat/bone and making darn good progress on whatever meaty bone
object I give them. I continue a ground meal in the am for my
convenience, because I don't care to get up early enough in the AM to
wait for a puppy to eat a RMB type meal but as soon as they're eating
whole bones (chicken breasts and thighs are easy bones) then they get
a hunk o meat in the am and meaty bone in the PM. I add organ meat in
dribs and drabs from the beginning. They nurse on mom for as long as
she'll let them.

8-10 week old puppies: I have a lot more practice here <grin>. I
start with a ground meal in the AM, because it fits my schedule not to
get up an hour early to supervise a RMB meal. They get whatever the
grownups are getting for dinner, they just need more time to eat it
and then, sometimes, a bed time snack. Once they're eating the RMB
meal easily, then we drop the AM ground for just whole meat meals in
the AM (still relatively a quick eat). They keep with 2 meals a day
for a while...usually around 6-7 months, but Miss Robin, at 7 months,
is still easily eating almost 1 1/2 lbs a day and growing, so I'm not
inclined to switch her to a single meal yet.

Remember, not every meal has to contain edible bone; if it does,
you're probably feeding too much bone.

As far as growth, it's been entertaining. While they don't grow as
unnaturally fast as a kibble fed litter mate, they grow more steadily.
That's not to say you won't have your butt-high moments...but they're
not as pronounced as in a kibble fed puppy (based on my observation of
littermates to my raw fed puppies). A raw fed puppy will take longer
to finish growing and filling out...it grows at a more natural rate.
In the end, whatever their genetic potential is for size and growth,
they'll hit it.

OFA results for my raw fed (although not all weaned to raw by their breeders):
3 excellents and 2 goods. Humvee, Blaze and Robin are too young for
OFA and since Humvee's back with his breeder now, he's kibble fed
again <sigh>).

On 9/26/07, Loraine Jesse <rothburg@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> This group has been a real learning experience for me. Thank-you.
> Question: Can I please get some detailed information on how most of you wean your puppies and exactly how and with what food and when? What kind of feeding instructions do you give your puppy people?
> For those of you who have been feeding strictly prey raw feeding for many years now..............have you had any puppies/dogs that choked from the whole raw food or, surgery from bowel impacts, etc?
> Did you have any problems with the pups growing confirmation wise (too fast, too slow, low pasterns, splayed feet) And finally what were your average results with OFA?
> Loraine Jesse
> rothburg@xplornet.comwww.rothburgrottweilers.com
>

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Feed Pets Raw Food

Thursday, September 27, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12082

0 Comments:

About Me

Previous Posts