[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12074

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1.1. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: brutus_buckley
1.2. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: Brandi Bryant
1.3. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: Sandee Lee
1.4. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: Sonja
1.5. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: Dawn Crosier
1.6. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: Tina Berry
1.7. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: Sonja
1.8. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: T Smith

2.1. Re: Feeding Heads
From: Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)
2.2. Re: Feeding Heads
From: Morledzep@aol.com
2.3. Re: Feeding Heads
From: Giselle

3a. Pet Tabs Plus/Vitamin A
From: brutus_buckley
3b. Re: Pet Tabs Plus/Vitamin A
From: costrowski75
3c. Re: Pet Tabs Plus/Vitamin A
From: brutus_buckley
3d. Re: Pet Tabs Plus/Vitamin A
From: Sandee Lee

4a. Re: I tried and raw is just not going to work.
From: one_sojourner_one
4b. Re: I tried and raw is just not going to work.
From: costrowski75

5a. Re: vet said not to feed raw liver
From: paulhrussell
5b. Re: vet said not to feed raw liver
From: costrowski75

6a. Re: Success! (was: Raw & Stools (poop))
From: susan holbeck
6b. Re: Success! (was: Raw & Stools (poop))
From: Sandee Lee
6c. Re: Success! ( Question of my own on poop
From: Kaitlin Fraser

7a. Re: Raw & Stools (poop)
From: Giselle
7b. Re: Raw & Stools (poop)
From: Renate

8. Fish body oil
From: Yasuko herron

Messages
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1.1. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "brutus_buckley" brutus_buckley@yahoo.com brutus_buckley
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:12 pm ((PDT))

Vickie,
It seems to me that what you have is a vet with raw-food blinders on.
That is, this vet is obviously opposed to raw and therefore blames
everything on the diet.

Nose bleeds are not a symptom of salmonella or e-coli poisoning.
Bacteria, in raw meat, or any other food, do not cause pancreatitis.
The symptoms you described sound NOTHING like pancreatitis or
bacterial poisoning. I am no vet, but I can use google:

http://www.vetcentric.com/reference/encycEntry.cfm?
ENTRY=23&COLLECTION=EncycIllness&MODE=full

I realize you are scared, and I sincerely hope it's not cancer this
time. However, if something is going on, it is not going to get
solved by blaming the diet and switching to kibble. So please, get a
second opinion. Don't tell the new vet that you feed/fed raw until
you get a proper diagnosis. Clearly something is wrong with your pup,
but it is NOT because of diet.

As for husbands, well, what can I say. Mine is OK with raw food as
long as he doesn't have to touch anything "squishy." Perhaps when you
get to the bottom of this problem and discover it is not diet-
related, he will change his mind or at least agree to have another go
at it. Please keep us posted.

-Renee W.

Messages in this topic (37)
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1.2. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:13 pm ((PDT))

>>>He also added that this is all because we feed him raw
food, because of the bacteria in there, and that his nose bleeds,
infection, etc is because of the bacteria in raw food and we should
stop right away. So my hubby just plain refused to feed raw, and
prohibited me to do it. <<<<

I would consider getting a 2nd opinion with a vet that will support your
decision on feeding RAW! I have seen what it has done for my dogs and I
wouldn't turn back to kibble!!!

Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok
www.obediencetrainingclubofbartlesville.com

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Messages in this topic (37)
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1.3. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:25 pm ((PDT))

Vickie,

I am really sorry you are having all these problems with your pup (and
hubby), but again will reiterate that none of this is caused by diet.

A raw diet is not going to cause pancreatitis, kidney disease, upper
respiratory or any other kind of infections, nosebleeds, elevated blood cell
counts...or cancer! Your vet needs to figure out what the puppy's problem
is and deal with it. Diet has nothing to do with this. In fact, I like the
suggestion of visiting another vet and don't bring up food at all. If a vet
cannot look for a cause without blaming everything on a raw diet, they need
to be dumped!

Bacteria is everywhere..you are not going to avoid it by feeding kibble.
Look at all of the food recalls recently....kibble is far from safe! You
just can't do anything better than feeding him the food his body was
designed to eat. Feeding a sick dog sick food is not going to result in
health.

Get a different vet, find out what the problem is and treat it.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "vickies_28" <vickies_28@yahoo.com>
Anywhoooo
the doctor said, "I am very concered about the dog, he has elevated
white or red 9cannot remember cells, which is a sign of infection,
then he also has elevated phosfurus level and elevated something
else that make the doctor suspect pancreatitis." He said he was very
concerend. He also added that this is all because we feed him raw
food, because of the bacteria in there, and that his nose bleeds,
infection, etc is because of the bacteria in raw food and we should
stop right away. So my hubby just plain refused to feed raw, and
prohibited me to do it.

Messages in this topic (37)
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1.4. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:26 pm ((PDT))

Vickie,

My pup has had all sorts of issues on raw (mostly due to MY mistakes), but I still feed it because she has had far FEWER health issues on raw than she ever had when she was on kibble! I agree with everyone else....see what happens if you get a second opinion without bringing up the diet. Vets don't know enough about canine (or feline) nutrition to blame the diet. The diet becomes a scapegoat because the vets are just as programmed as the general public when it comes to the belief that dogs do best on kibble.

As for the bacteria load in raw food....I had a German Shepherd a few years back that would chow down on his and any other animal's feces. I know plenty of other dogs that do the same and have heard stories of even more raiding the litter box. No one worries out the bacterial load of THAT diet because dogs have been safely eating it for as long as dogs have been dogs. The only thing to worry about in this situation is parasitic worms.

When my husband questioned my decision to try raw, I simply told him "If dogs can eat poop, then Kodie can eat raw". He thought about it and said "Good point". There hasn't been an argument since.

I hope your pup has a speedy recovery!

Sonja

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Messages in this topic (37)
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1.5. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "Dawn Crosier" dlcrosier@sbcglobal.net dlc110161
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:25 pm ((PDT))

>> I simply told him "If dogs can eat poop, then Kodie can eat raw". He
thought about it and said "Good point". There hasn't been an argument since.

<<

That's a good one! Do you mind if I use it? I have a reluctant husband as
well.

Dawn

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Messages in this topic (37)
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1.6. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:25 pm ((PDT))

"A raw diet is not going to cause pancreatitis, kidney disease, upper
respiratory or any other kind of infections, nosebleeds, elevated blood cell
counts...or cancer!"

I thought I read on this list that blood levels are different for a raw fed
dog vs kibble fed and if the vet doesn't know the difference, find another
vet. Can someone confirm this?
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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Messages in this topic (37)
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1.7. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:18 pm ((PDT))

> That's a good one! Do you mind if I use it? I have a reluctant husband as
> well!

No need to ask to use it, after all, it's true, isn't it? :-)

I'd also like to make a correction to my previous post. Even though it's
painfully obvious, I guess I should've stated that worms aren't the only
thing to be concerned with in the habit of poop eating. Viruses and diseases
are of course also a concern. I've never had to worry about that with raw
meat from the market! Makes you wonder why vets don't ever blame a poop
eater's ailments on their less-than-pleasant habit.

Sonja

Messages in this topic (37)
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1.8. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:04 pm ((PDT))

Giardia & coccidia are commonly transferred via poo poooooooo
Trina

> I'd also like to make a correction to my previous post. Even though it's
> painfully obvious, I guess I should've stated that worms aren't the only
> thing to be concerned with in the habit of poop eating. Viruses and
> diseases
> are of course also a concern. I've never had to worry about that with raw
> meat from the market! Makes you wonder why vets don't ever blame a poop
> eater's ailments on their less-than-pleasant habit.
>
> Sonja
>
>
>

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Messages in this topic (37)
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2.1. Re: Feeding Heads
Posted by: "Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)" carolyn.garnaas@siemens.com carolyn.garnaas
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:19 pm ((PDT))

I would not feed a head, or a foot, to my Toy Poodle Molly. She looked
at me as if she needed crampons and climbing gear when she saw her first
whole game hen - no way is she going to straddle a deer head just to get
her dinner. She practically wears white gloves at mealtime she's such a
diva.

However, even if you don't feed strict prey model, you can still keep
your dog healthy and free from k**ble-induced illnesses (periodontal
disease, kidney disease, heart disease, etc.) by feeding fresh raw meat
on the bone. My six-pound dog eats fresh raw meat on and off the bone
regularly, and she is so healthy, robust and energetic, it's like she
needs an agent and her own luxury trailer.

Carolyn J. Garnaas and Molly Anne Malolly, Aspiring Film Actor

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Messages in this topic (34)
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2.2. Re: Feeding Heads
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:05 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/25/2007 8:35:57 AM Pacific Standard Time,
brutus_buckley@yahoo.com writes:

Feeding heads are also great for freaking husbands out!!!

***lol, that's why i buy them.. actually a couple of my dogs get absolutely
giddy when they get a lamb head and it takes a few hours for my pit bull to
dismantle and eat all that he's going to. i love it when the food keeps the dogs
busy for hours..

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (34)
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2.3. Re: Feeding Heads
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:56 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Trina!
We are a friendly bunch! 'Swhy so many of us offer advice
and support and stories about our experiences with our dogs. I
couldn't point to ANY post that has had, shall we say, a certain
fanatic fervor about it. We all have our own 'flavor' of raw feeding,
what works for us and our own dogs, we jostle along companionably
together when we disagree a bit, but the basics we generally agree on.

I don't remember if I posted my recommendation for starting raw
feeding for you, or if you've seen them in another topic. They're
pretty much what every long term raw feeder agrees is a good way to
begin. They also include The Lis List, a very creative compilation of
ways to source cheap &/or free meats. You might want to print it out
and highlight the relevant points.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374

post # 141374

I don't 'do' free range, grass fed or organic - simply can't afford
it, for myself or the dog. I'm limited in the wild game I can obtain.
I mostly shop for "frankenprey" animal parts 'n organs at grocery
stores, but do try to fit in some more exotic variety when I can.

I came to species appropriate whole prey model raw feeding by way of
kibble, many many brands of kibble - through home cooked, with grains
- home cooked without grains - to barfy style raw with veggies, etc. -
and finally by process of elimination, to whole prey model.
Did my dogs improve markedly on the home cooked vs kibble? Yes!
Did they improve even more on barfy style raw? Yes, indeed!
Did they improve even more once I ditched the unnecessary ground,
supps, herbals 'n plant matter? Oh, my Yes indeed!
Could I see even more health and well being if I could feed free
range, grass fed or organic? I think I would.
Do I beat myself up about not being able to - not on your life.
But, I never stop trying to figure out how to fit a better quality
diet into my life and budget.

I guess my point is; Do what you can, don't sweat it if you can't feed
your ideal of the optimum diet to your dogs, but never stop trying to
improve their diet nd add more variety.

Heads! heh heh I probably would feed 'em, if I could get 'em. Bea
would think she had gone to Newfy heaven if she got a head, I think.
But, its not for everyone. Not absolutely necessary to go all out to
feed them. And, if you are going to feed whole small prey, they'll
have the heads on, most likely. so NPs.

Usually, we spend a lot of time talking about poops, and vomit - so I
think a lot of people chimed in because it was a welcome change of
subject. ^_^
Not that I don't like a good poop or vomit discussion, you understand
.... ; )

Starting with chicken breast, boneless or not, can be fine. Boneless
meals are a big part of raw feeding. Its just that new-to-raw dogs
tend to need a higher than optimum percentage of bone to keep the
stools from being sloppy or loose - and setting a new-to-raw owner in
a panic. You might could get some cheap chicken leg quarters and feed
with the boneless breasts, to start.

Fat is fine to feed, its one of the major food groups for dogs, along
with meatymeat, organs and bone. But, new-to-raw dogs can get ugly
poops from high fat meals, right off the bat, especially if those
meals also are a bit light on meat. The suggestions are, at first, to
start with less fatty meats, and when you do introduce fattier meats,
only add a bit at a time to a well tolerated protein and build up the
dogs tolerance, just as its suggested you intro organs.

I'd suggest you read over The Lis List with your husband, highlight
what sources you're going to focus on; even if at first, its to check
out grocery store sale ads and figure out which stores mark down
ready-to-expire meat on what days. Then, GO TOGETHER! Its a great
adventure, you won't be disappointed that your husband doesn't bring
home what you want, and he won't be upset or aggravated because he's
looking for stuff he's not sure about. Getting meats for your dogs
isn't like shopping, its like a treasure hunt. Really. On this list,
there are several people who have bought more than one big freezer to
hold 'dog meat' 'cause they can't stop hunting! : )

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Because I have hunter friends, there may be some foods easier to get
than
> others.
<snip>
> I currently have a freezer of chicken breast boneless but I should be
> feeding bone in? & really thought the free range organic was best,
right?
> Wrong? Am I confused again?
<snip>
> What's wrong with the fat content?
> How much fat content is recommended? Not recommended? bad? good?
>
> My dogs will like what they get! hehe well, between 9 of them
eventually,
> SOMEONE will eat what's in the freezer....
>
> *shuddering at the idea of a cow head in my yard* ~ with my luck it
would
> MOO at me! *faint*
> OK, i have emailed 2 organic free range feeding chicken farms to see
what
> they have to offer to start with, if anything at all....
> Is the store brand really not a good idea?
<snip>
> Help! :-)
> Trina
> AGAIN

Messages in this topic (34)
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3a. Pet Tabs Plus/Vitamin A
Posted by: "brutus_buckley" brutus_buckley@yahoo.com brutus_buckley
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:25 pm ((PDT))

OK all, despite my 'no supplements just in case' policy, my husband
really really wants to give our dogs pet Tabs Plus. He is convinced
that it will 'cover' anything we miss with the diet. Quite honestly, I
wouldn't really mind, but I don't want to risk too much vitamin A. I
feed liver in small amounts and these vitamins have
1500 IU Vitamin A per tablet. Is this enough to cause vitamin A
toxicity? My plan was to allow him to feed this bottle out and then
simply not replace it. *sigh*
-Renee W.

Messages in this topic (4)
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3b. Re: Pet Tabs Plus/Vitamin A
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:45 pm ((PDT))

"brutus_buckley" <brutus_buckley@...> wrote:
>
> OK all, despite my 'no supplements just in case' policy, my husband
> really really wants to give our dogs pet Tabs Plus. He is convinced
> that it will 'cover' anything we miss with the diet.
*****
You might have him browse the USDA Nutrient Database to see just what
you're feeding when you feed an appropriate raw diet. What are your
dogs missing? Nothing. What does he THINK they're missing? That's
the question. My guess is he will not find an area that's lacking.

I > feed liver in small amounts and these vitamins have
> 1500 IU Vitamin A per tablet. Is this enough to cause vitamin A
> toxicity?
*****
I see no reason to add more A to a diet that gets plenty of naturally
occurring A from liver. If you are bound by marital vows to both
love AND obey, how about finding a dog vitamin that doesn't heavy up
the A?

IMO you're messing unnecesarily with Mother Nature by adding more
vits and mins than the diet intrinsically offers. I don't believe
the redundancy has value. The only supps I would consider if I were
suffering from loss of faith in rawfeeding would be C, E and a B
complex.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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3c. Re: Pet Tabs Plus/Vitamin A
Posted by: "brutus_buckley" brutus_buckley@yahoo.com brutus_buckley
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:25 pm ((PDT))

//What does he THINK they're missing?//

***good question, Chris. I suspect he doesn't really know!

//If you are bound by marital vows to both love AND obey, how about
finding a dog vitamin that doesn't heavy up the A?//

***OBEY was deliberately left out of our vows <G> I think this is an
excellent approach...I say a supplemental vitamin is fine, if he finds
one lower in vitamin A. Trust me, he won't want to go through the
trouble and it should be dropped at that point.

Thanks-

Renee W.

Messages in this topic (4)
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3d. Re: Pet Tabs Plus/Vitamin A
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:35 pm ((PDT))

AND...no added calcium, corn syrup, sorbitol, sucrose....LOL

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "brutus_buckley" <brutus_buckley@yahoo.com>

***OBEY was deliberately left out of our vows <G> I think this is an
excellent approach...I say a supplemental vitamin is fine, if he finds
one lower in vitamin A. Trust me, he won't want to go through the
trouble and it should be dropped at that point.

Messages in this topic (4)
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4a. Re: I tried and raw is just not going to work.
Posted by: "one_sojourner_one" onesojourner@gmail.com one_sojourner_one
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:27 pm ((PDT))

I am open to suggestions for getting calcium. He has had several eggs
but last time he puked it up so I have not given him another. By
enhanced turkey do you mean the natural flavor part? My grocery store
had 3 brands of ground turkey and they all said that. I did not pay
extra for the hearts, there was no other option.

-peter

Messages in this topic (17)
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4b. Re: I tried and raw is just not going to work.
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:05 pm ((PDT))

"one_sojourner_one" <onesojourner@...> wrote:
>
> I am open to suggestions for getting calcium.
*****
You do not need calcium immediately but I hope ultimately you can rely
on fresh whole meaty bones. Hey, you never know.

Meanwhile, you can safely and easily use 1/2 teapsoon ground eggshells
per pound of meat. It doesn't depend on the dog's weight, it depends
on the amount of food. So if you feed half a pound of food a day, you
would add 1/4tsp of ground eggshell to that.

You can also use pulverized calcium supps. When I was having to force
feed my sick cat, I used calcium citrate w/o vitamin D. 900-1000mg per
pound of food.

Perhaps others can offer additional options.

By
> enhanced turkey do you mean the natural flavor part?
*****
Yeah, that. The stuff that comes in trays is usually enhanced. Zacky
Farms produces an unenhanced one pound chub; I'm sure they're not the
only source of unenhanced product.

I did not pay
> extra for the hearts, there was no other option.
*****
Right, there wouldn't be.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (17)
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5a. Re: vet said not to feed raw liver
Posted by: "paulhrussell" paulhrussell@yahoo.com paulhrussell
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:27 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
> "paulhrussell" <paulhrussell@> wrote:
> >
> > Wondering if there's anything to her saying liver is the organ
> which
> > deals with all of the unhealthy things and sickness an animal has
> been
> > subjected to?
> *****
> Nothing replaces liver. Even if you bail out and use cod liver oil
> (not recommended!) you have to feed liver something.
>
> If you want to minimize the specter of sickness and unhealthy
> organs, buy freerange organic liver. OTOH, it might just be enough
> to know that a. liver is not a repository but rather a filter. (If
> liver just accumulated, ain't none of us would be alive today.), and
> b. storebought liver is healthy enough for human consumption and
> that should work for dogs. Remember, cooking may kill parasites but
> it doesn't do squat to toxins.
>
> Also consider that only 3%-5% of the diet should be liver. For a
> dog that eats a pound a day, that's less than one once a day.
>
>
> > I give mine lots of frozen beef liver mixed with various beef and
> > chicken from Whole Foods.
> *****
> You don't need to feed "lots" but you have enough wiggle room to
> feed it generously without being excessive. When you say "mixed",
> does that mean you are feeding prefab ground blends?
> Chris O
>

Thanks for the info.

I only shop Whole Foods with the intention of buying only free-range
healthy beef liver from the frozen meat (human) section.

By 'mixed' I mean I do some canned Instinct when short on time... and
regularly mix in human-grade beef and chicken from Whole Foods... Also
do some frozen broccoli and carrots for fiber...

My beloved 10 year old Golden Lab rescue was dx with HSA in her heart
2 months ago and have read how raw liver is one of the best things for
her condition.... so she and her younger sister (Springer chow mix
rescue) get copious amounts of it... about 25% of their diet.

think that's too much? haven't seen any bad signs of Vit A poisoning
or the like...

She's getting a whole host of homeopathic/holistic supplements too for
this supposed HSA.... could also be a blood clot or so they say from
looking at ultrasounds.

they get frozen chicken/turkey necks on a regular basis along with
beef raw bones....

Messages in this topic (17)
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5b. Re: vet said not to feed raw liver
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:11 pm ((PDT))

"paulhrussell" <paulhrussell@...> wrote:
> My beloved 10 year old Golden Lab rescue was dx with HSA in her heart
> 2 months ago and have read how raw liver is one of the best things for
> her condition.... so she and her younger sister (Springer chow mix
> rescue) get copious amounts of it... about 25% of their diet.
>
> think that's too much? haven't seen any bad signs of Vit A poisoning
> or the like...
*****
I do yes. But if you believe it's helping with her hemangio, it's not
for me to say. Certainly "normally" that's excessive.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (17)
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6a. Re: Success! (was: Raw & Stools (poop))
Posted by: "susan holbeck" nu1edie@yahoo.com nu1edie
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:26 pm ((PDT))

Mine is a Newbie success story! At least so far.

I've been feeding raw about 5 weeks now and I am delighted! I've gotten quite a bit of flack along the way, but I blame ignorance for that! My 4 1/2 year old Rottweiler has NEVER looked better. He had a HUGE tarter problem before raw and I knew he would have to be put under for proper tooth cleaning. Guess what? His teeth look amazing! Not perfect yet, but in no way in need of a full ultrasonic cleaning. His shedding is less than half of what it was and his coat is smooth and shiny. I am a happy dog momma! He's still a lazy boy, but our new addition has brought a little more spark to his life.

Which brings me to our new addition! I picked up a stray pit mix to save her from the dog catcher. Well I fell in love with the little snot and she is great with Ozzie and my kids. She's getting spayed next week! She took to raw like a champ and over the past 2 weeks has gained weight and adapted like a pro. I lured her in the van with raw hamburger to begin with.

Anyway, Oz eats anything EXCEPT whole fish. He won't touch it (neither will the girl dog, Edna). Either way, I'll never turn back. Their poo is so much less, their breath is totally non offensive and they are happy, healthy dogs!

Susan, momma of Oswald (aka Ozzie, Oz) and Edna the girl dog!

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6b. Re: Success! (was: Raw & Stools (poop))
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:40 pm ((PDT))

Great! We love success stories!

It's amazing how quickly those teeth clean up when fed appropriately. When
we adopted Austin at 6-years-old the first thing hubby commented was how
much he stunk. My first observation was his horrible teeth! Ughhh......the
stench disappeared almost immediately, the teeth took a little longer but
continued to improve over a few month's time. He is 8 now and my vet was
amazed on a recent visit that he has never had his teeth cleaned! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "susan holbeck" <nu1edie@yahoo.com>
>
> I've been feeding raw about 5 weeks now and I am delighted! I've gotten
quite a bit of flack along the way, but I blame ignorance for that! My 4
1/2 year old Rottweiler has NEVER looked better. He had a HUGE tarter
problem before raw and I knew he would have to be put under for proper tooth
cleaning. Guess what? His teeth look amazing! Not perfect yet, but in no
way in need of a full ultrasonic cleaning. His shedding is less than half
of what it was and his coat is smooth and shiny. I am a happy dog momma!

Messages in this topic (15)
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6c. Re: Success! ( Question of my own on poop
Posted by: "Kaitlin Fraser" fraserk7@hotmail.com fraserk7
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:58 pm ((PDT))

Congrads on your good luck!

I get more compliments on my dogs beautiful teeth, coats that look like
crystal and good breath...( ya a dog with good breath)... to the point when
someone asks what I feed, I smile... tell them RAW... and then say" Don't
bash it... you just told me how amazing he was"....

Raws a wonder working, my older two none raw feds coats... used to look
great compared to other peoples dogs coats... and they get raw eggs. But
their breath, coat and teeth arn't half as nice.

I thakn raw every day for not needing to brush my raw feds dogs teeth and
scrap them.

Go RAW!

But a question... Malo has green solid poop? And he had white poop
yesturday? Any ideas? He checks out as healthy.

Kaitlin Fraser
Prince SJA therapy dog, CGN
Jester SJA therapy dog CGN
Wenlisa's Command Performance HIC, CKC majorPTd "Malo" A work of art in
progress.( Raw Fed, )
Sheep's Kin Unusually Unusaul Kiska- Another work of art in even more
progress.( Raw fed)

No dogs are vaccinated in my home.

" No one can walk into a room and bring as much joy, happyness and love as a
single dog can"

>From: susan holbeck <nu1edie@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
>To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] Success! (was: Raw & Stools (poop))
>Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 13:53:41 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Mine is a Newbie success story! At least so far.
>
> I've been feeding raw about 5 weeks now and I am delighted! I've gotten
>quite a bit of flack along the way, but I blame ignorance for that! My 4
>1/2 year old Rottweiler has NEVER looked better. He had a HUGE tarter
>problem before raw and I knew he would have to be put under for proper
>tooth cleaning. Guess what? His teeth look amazing! Not perfect yet, but
>in no way in need of a full ultrasonic cleaning. His shedding is less than
>half of what it was and his coat is smooth and shiny. I am a happy dog
>momma! He's still a lazy boy, but our new addition has brought a little
>more spark to his life.
>
> Which brings me to our new addition! I picked up a stray pit mix to
>save her from the dog catcher. Well I fell in love with the little snot
>and she is great with Ozzie and my kids. She's getting spayed next week!
>She took to raw like a champ and over the past 2 weeks has gained weight
>and adapted like a pro. I lured her in the van with raw hamburger to begin
>with.
>
> Anyway, Oz eats anything EXCEPT whole fish. He won't touch it (neither
>will the girl dog, Edna). Either way, I'll never turn back. Their poo is
>so much less, their breath is totally non offensive and they are happy,
>healthy dogs!
>
> Susan, momma of Oswald (aka Ozzie, Oz) and Edna the girl dog!
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who
>knows.
>Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
>
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>

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Messages in this topic (15)
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7a. Re: Raw & Stools (poop)
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:02 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Kristen!
Great to hear from you, anyway!
Glad Zoe is truckin' along. ^_^
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Indeed. You wouldn't have heard anything from me, because once she got
> the hang of eating real food, Zoe ate everything without any digestive
> issues.
>
> She finally did get the runs from too much lamb introduced at once,
> but by that time I had been reading enough and was confident enough
> that I could figure out the root of the problem and address it on my
own.
>
> So, I think not only do we not hear from newbies who do well, but we
> also don't hear from newbies who have fairly normal "problems" and
> already have enough information under their belt to not need lots of
> hand-holding.
>
> Kristin

Messages in this topic (15)
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7b. Re: Raw & Stools (poop)
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:25 pm ((PDT))

I'm totally new at this, but I've been looking for sources, here slaughter
houses are called abbatoirs. Great source. Another one is people that keep
laying hens, cause they basically dump them and start again every year and
the market for those chickens is not great. Also cull rabbits. I'm
planning on trying our local Freecycle list and the corresponding Cheapcylce
list.
Renate

On 9/25/07, T Smith <coldbeach@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> No, I've not started raw yet. I wanted to start the beginning of next
> month
> (about a week)n.
> I am on an island so it takes me 30+ minutes to get to the mainland to
> anywhere that might have a butcher market! I've been checking on line but
> to no avail to find a slaughter house or... whatever they call them now.
> I don't even know where to begin to find this kind of food bulk food. I am
> trying to find free range chicken to start. Being a vegetarian, if I am
> going to do this for my dogs, I need to not support the industry that
> (IMO)
> treats them cruel. I know dog food has chicken but we don't see it so it
> makes it 'easier'. I am sure they use caged chicken but the 'out of
> sight...out of mind' theory does wonders!
> I will seek out free range beef & talk to some hunter friends I know also
> as
> I get further *IF* I make it to get started! I am terrified of the
> diarrhea
> issues.
> I already give fish oil capsules, Vit E & Ester-C to a few of my dogs for
> specific needs. Several are medicated, too.
> Finding the free range might be the most difficult but if anyone is in my
> area (NW of Seattle) & knows of anywhere....Speak up!!
> Please, any preference of fish. I really do want specifics (types) to get
> started to make me feel more comfortable to get started. I will be putting
> a list on the fridge for everyone here to make sure we are all in check &
> on
> the same track. My mum has agreed to let her Dane pup go on this plan too!
> (I did get her to finally agree with us, Maggie. As long as it was her own
> decision *grin*).
> I will be purchasing a scale to weigh the food for their feedings to
> monitor
> it.
> Casper is 7 month old & already over 130 pounds. He eats 12 cups a day of
> k***le, Louie is 5 months, 100 pounds now & 9 cups of k***le... you get
> the
> idea? The special food for Casper & the 4 month old Dane girl "Whisper" is
> 37$ a bag.... That adds up. Just one tube of my Lhasa's eye meds is 55$ &
> he uses 4 eye medicines up to 9 times a day (at least 1/2 hour apart)...
> He
> has battled ear infections, skin infections, etc for the 11 years we've
> had
> him. As a pup he came home with severe ear issues & it progressed from
> there even with thousands of dollars in vet visits & medicines &
> specialists. His new vet has done wonders but.... I am in good hopes raw
> may assist him better? He is on the next 'wave' of raw feeders after I get
> the first 4 stable & find out if I can do it. 3 are terminal & I would
> like
> their final time with me as long and comfortable as possible.
>
> Thanks for the compliment about my fur kids. They are my everything. My
> house is really set up for their needs; doggie doors everywhere & the
> Lhasas
> have their own room! I applied to be a foster home again. I am the lucky
> one to have them in my life, really, I am truly blessed by these wonderful
> kids & I just want to do what is best for them. I need the free range
> animals though in order to help myself get through this easier as well.
> Any
> idea how to find these types of people to supply food for my fur kids?
> I look forward to ALL answers, help, advice, etc...
> Trina
> Chip (deaf Dalmatian)
> Casper (deaf Great Dane)
> Whisper (deaf Great Dane)
> Louie (hearing Great Dane)
> Joey (deaf & blind Lhasa Apso)
> Amy (disabled Lhasa Apso)
> Cassandra (disabled Lhasa Apso)
> Mr Paris (Lhasa Apso)
> Chloe (deaf & blind Spaniel mix)
>
> On 9/24/07, Laurie Swanson <laurie@mckinneyphoto.com<laurie%40mckinneyphoto.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> > Wow, Trina, you have your hands full! That's wonderful you take care
> > of all those special needs' dogs.
> >
> > Take things slow, don't mix up lots of different proteins, don't do
> > organs right away, feed a bit higher bone content to start, feed meals
> > on the smaller side rather than larger.
> >
> > Have you started raw? If so, what are you feeding? Non-enhanced
> > chicken (read the fine print on the label and make sure no additives,
> > no injections of broth or other solutions, etc.) is usually a good
> > first meat.
> >
> > Laurie
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

--
Renate
'The more I learn about men, the more I love my Shih Tzu'

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Messages in this topic (15)
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8. Fish body oil
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:39 pm ((PDT))

Hi. Do you give fish body oil when you feed fish meal too? How often doyou give it to dog?

At this moment,I give fish body oil daily but was curious if I give fish body oil on fishday as well (usually omega 3 rich fish),then,too much omega 3 and cause over dose from fish body oil?

yassy

---------------------------------
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