[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12073

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1.1. Re: Feeding Heads
From: marieandthefuzzybunch

2a. Re: Raw & Stools (poop)
From: girlndocs
2b. Re: Raw & Stools (poop)
From: costrowski75

3a. Re: vet said not to feed raw liver
From: Laura Atkinson
3b. Re: vet said not to feed raw liver
From: tottime47
3c. Re: vet said not to feed raw liver
From: costrowski75
3d. Re: vet said not to feed raw liver
From: Laura Atkinson
3e. Re: vet said not to feed raw liver
From: Letha Welch
3f. Re: vet said not to feed raw liver
From: Sandee Lee
3g. Re: vet said not to feed raw liver
From: T Smith
3h. Re: vet said not to feed raw liver
From: costrowski75
3i. Re: vet said not to feed raw liver
From: tottime47

4. Hot Spots Problem - Is it the Food?
From: czab_ca

5a. Re: Won't eat chicken
From: Andrea
5b. Re: Won't eat chicken
From: mgitaville

6a. Re: Newbie Intro-Ellizabeth
From: Elizabeth Dill

7a. Re: Aust. shep. new in nashville
From: cdhaik

8. Processing Deer?
From: Denise and David Spotila

9a. Re: I tried and raw is just not going to work.
From: delcaste
9b. Re: I tried and raw is just not going to work.
From: one_sojourner_one
9c. Re: I tried and raw is just not going to work.
From: costrowski75

10a. what to feed a scared rescue?
From: pelirojita

11.1. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: vickies_28

12a. Re: re teeth and cardiac connection
From: Shannon Parker

13a. Re: Feeding once a day
From: Sandee Lee

Messages
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1.1. Re: Feeding Heads
Posted by: "marieandthefuzzybunch" marie@hotlinkhr.com marieandthefuzzybunch
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:58 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:
>
> I am beginning to think raw might not be for me.
> I cannot feed heads like this. It's just NOT something I can do.
***********************************
I have to agree with the heads thing. I do not plan to feed heads to
my guys. I love feeding raw and they are thriving on it, but no heads,
no cute little wild squirrels and no growing bunnies to feed them. No
quarrel with those who do, but it is not for me. I venture to guess
that I can get enough variety still to meet their needs.

Marie

Messages in this topic (31)
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2a. Re: Raw & Stools (poop)
Posted by: "girlndocs" girlndocs@hotmail.com girlndocs
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:59 am ((PDT))

Indeed. You wouldn't have heard anything from me, because once she got
the hang of eating real food, Zoe ate everything without any digestive
issues.

She finally did get the runs from too much lamb introduced at once,
but by that time I had been reading enough and was confident enough
that I could figure out the root of the problem and address it on my own.

So, I think not only do we not hear from newbies who do well, but we
also don't hear from newbies who have fairly normal "problems" and
already have enough information under their belt to not need lots of
hand-holding.

Kristin

> I would say that it probably seems like most newbie dogs get diarrhea,
> but in fact, i don't believe that is really true. I think since most
> people only post if they have trouble, it seems like most dogs have
> trouble. We usually don't read about the trouble free newbies.

Messages in this topic (10)
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2b. Re: Raw & Stools (poop)
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:37 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "girlndocs" <girlndocs@...> wrote:
>
> Indeed. You wouldn't have heard anything from me, because once she got
> the hang of eating real food, Zoe ate everything without any digestive
> issues.
>
*****
Every so often we try to have a "Don't Nobody Bring Me No Bad News" Day
so that we can revel in the banal and humdrum of uneventful raw
feeding. Successes are ALWAYS welcome posts!
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
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3a. Re: vet said not to feed raw liver
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:03 am ((PDT))

That'll be 30 lashes with a semi-frozen spleen for not including the
required FDA (that's a Food & Drink Alert for those of you puzzled by
the acronym) on that post, Miss ChrisO. Or just hand over the key to
the meat locker.

On 9/25/07, costrowski75 <Chriso75@aol.com> wrote:
> *****
> But yes! You should watch sometimes. There is capricious behavior
> although sometimes you may see a bit of sheepishness. And of course
> some livers are positively cowed by the larger ones: they're quite
> chicken actually and quail at the thought of going up against those
> that make pigs of themselves.
> Chris O
>
>
--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell

Messages in this topic (15)
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3b. Re: vet said not to feed raw liver
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:29 am ((PDT))

Lol, very funny today!

I keep reading that dogs are really cousins to wolves..
Don't wolves prey on weak, sick and old animals in the wild?
Seems that might be the worst liver to eat and yet they do and
I ain't (woops, that's not a word) read anything about wolves dying
enmass from eating it........

Gosh I really hate when a Vet says something so dumb.....

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...>
wrote:
>
> Cathy Crosby <biblecat@> wrote:
> > Sorry....am I the only one who thought this was funny? I can just
> > picture these little livers out in the field, grazing and
frolicking
> in
> > their freedom!
> *****
> But yes! You should watch sometimes. There is capricious behavior
> although sometimes you may see a bit of sheepishness. And of
course
> some livers are positively cowed by the larger ones: they're quite
> chicken actually and quail at the thought of going up against those
> that make pigs of themselves.
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (15)
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3c. Re: vet said not to feed raw liver
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:42 am ((PDT))

"Laura Atkinson" <llatkinson@...> wrote:
>Or just hand over the key to
> the meat locker.
*****
Would that be "put DOWN the key and step AWAY from the locker"?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (15)
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3d. Re: vet said not to feed raw liver
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:54 am ((PDT))

Depends on how much trouble you think you're in. Hand it over
peacefully and no one gets hurt. We can do this the easy way or the
hard way.

On 9/25/07, costrowski75 <Chriso75@aol.com> wrote:
> "Laura Atkinson" <llatkinson@...> wrote:
> >Or just hand over the key to
> > the meat locker.
> *****
> Would that be "put DOWN the key and step AWAY from the locker"?
> Chris O
>
--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell

Messages in this topic (15)
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3e. Re: vet said not to feed raw liver
Posted by: "Letha Welch" family@fantasycrafts.com dragonxser
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:42 am ((PDT))

Thank you!!!

As in any 'class' it is so necessary for the instructor to throw in some humor to get my
brain back on track. Back to where I can assimilate the mass of information. This... was too
funny! Thank you both!

< ;^ ) ... Going back to reading in the deep dark depths of a lurking puppy owner feeding
that protested frozen pre-mix stuff 'cause it is more convenient for my 10 and 13 yr old
kidlets to use ~ and 'cause I don't know yet how to obtain or balance out all the needs for
my 5 mo. old pooch.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
> Cathy Crosby <biblecat@> wrote:
> > Sorry....am I the only one who thought this was funny? I can just
> > picture these little livers out in the field, grazing and frolicking
> in
> > their freedom!
> *****
> But yes! You should watch sometimes. There is capricious behavior
> although sometimes you may see a bit of sheepishness. And of course
> some livers are positively cowed by the larger ones: they're quite
> chicken actually and quail at the thought of going up against those
> that make pigs of themselves.
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (15)
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3f. Re: vet said not to feed raw liver
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:08 pm ((PDT))

Paul,

We hear this kind of nonsense frequently! The liver is a filter, sending
impurities out of the system. If it were a storage receptacle, none of us
would be alive! :)) No need to avoid it...and that goes for humans as well
as our pets.

Other organs are not a substitution. Liver is necessary...but only as
around 5% of the diet.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "paulhrussell" <paulhrussell@yahoo.com>

Wondering if there's anything to her saying liver is the organ which
deals with all of the unhealthy things and sickness an animal has been
subjected to?

She said don't feed liver, other raw organ meats are a safer bet if
doing a raw diet.

Messages in this topic (15)
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3g. Re: vet said not to feed raw liver
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:31 pm ((PDT))

Oh for Pete's sake... from head gnawing dogs to livers free ranging in the
fields...
OK, this raw diet ....I want to breed those free range livers (they can't
eat THAT much) and they don't have heads!
I can just toss 'em to the dogs...I could even hunt them (for the lady who
trees squirrels) we could develop a liverhound ;-)
Alright, seriously, one ounce of liver per 10 pounds of chicken meal
daily....
Can I give that as 7 ounces in a week at one feeding or best to do it one
ounce daily?
Trina
--
Chip (deaf Dalmatian)
Casper (deaf Great Dane)
Whisper (deaf Great Dane)
Louie (hearing Great Dane)
Joey (deaf & blind Lhasa Apso)
Amy (disabled Lhasa Apso)
Cassandra (disabled Lhasa Apso)
Mr Paris (Lhasa Apso)
Chloe (deaf & blind Spaniel mix)

On 9/25/07, Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com> wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
> We hear this kind of nonsense frequently! The liver is a filter, sending
> impurities out of the system. If it were a storage receptacle, none of us
> would be alive! :)) No need to avoid it...and that goes for humans as well
> as our pets.
>
> Other organs are not a substitution. Liver is necessary...but only as
> around 5% of the diet.
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (15)
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3h. Re: vet said not to feed raw liver
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:54 pm ((PDT))

"T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:
>
> Oh for Pete's sake... from head gnawing dogs to livers free ranging
in the
> fields...
*****
We aim to please.

> Alright, seriously, one ounce of liver per 10 pounds of chicken meal
> daily....
*****
Per dog? How big a dog are you feeding that it would get 10 pounds a
day? How about one ounce of liver (or even less) per ONE pound of
chicken? Ten pounds of chicken might justify a pound of liver, but a
scant one at that.

> Can I give that as 7 ounces in a week at one feeding or best to do
it one
> ounce daily?
*****
Ultimately it depends on the dog but certainly at the beginning a
teensy small amount of liver is not as likely to create digestive
disorder. In fact, there's really no reason to feed liver right from
the get-go; give yourself and your dogs time to get used to things.

You might be able to feed as much as seven ounces in one meal later
on but you should ease into it. A full seven ounces out of nowhere
will almost certainly create havoc. My retrievers have been fed raw
for over seven years now and while they are comfortable with four or
five ounces of liver a couple of times a month, I don't feed them big
heaps of the stuff. Heart yes, liver no.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (15)
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3i. Re: vet said not to feed raw liver
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:11 pm ((PDT))

Hi Trina,

We are a group, lol.

When starting out wait a few weeks to add in the liver....

Then I would start with an oz a day and see how it goes,
maybe eventually you can feed all 7oz at once, but not at
first as liver is very rich and can give the old cannon butt
if fed too much, too soon.......

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:

> Can I give that as 7 ounces in a week at one feeding or best to do it
one
> ounce daily?

Messages in this topic (15)
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4. Hot Spots Problem - Is it the Food?
Posted by: "czab_ca" czab_ca@yahoo.com czab_ca
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:29 am ((PDT))

Hello everyone,

My 4 year old Shiba Inu just started on the raw food diet 3 weeks ago.
Lately I have been giving him beef this past week. But he's also
developing a hot spot on his back. Ever since he was little he's had
skin problems, such as dandruff and mild cases of hot spots.
Is he allergic to beef? I've been using fish oil supplements in his
food as well, and sometimes I give him canned fish (albacore) if I run
out of fresh raw food.
Should I switch him back to chicken instead? I hate seeing my dog
suffer and have to wear his elizabethean collar all day and night. :(
I've cleaned the hot spot with green tea and put a mild anti-itch
cream on it. It's been about a week he's had his hot spot.
Please help! Thank you.

Chrystine Z.

Messages in this topic (1)
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5a. Re: Won't eat chicken
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:29 am ((PDT))

Hi, Carmela, you know after something as wonderfully odiferous as goat I'm not surprised
your hound is less than excited by chicken. Sometimes Geiger gets in a mood and decides he
doesn't want what mom is offering. In that case, the food goes down for about twenty
minutes and if he doesn't touch it I put it away for the next day. Same food comes back until
he eats it. Luckily, he gives in by day three at most and I've never had to see just how long it
takes before I can't stand the smell anymore. Exercise is a great thing for a dog who is trying
to be picky, it will make him even hungrier. It could be he just isn't a big fan of chicken, or
he might not like the texture compared to the goat. You could try throwing it in the freezer
for a short time just to firm it up. Good luck.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "melabelle227" <carmelai@...> wrote:
>
> Now this dog is not a picky
> eater, but he won't eat the chicken (though he had no problem eating
> the frozen ground raw chicken). He licks it, nibbles it a tiny bit,
> and then leaves it.

Messages in this topic (3)
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5b. Re: Won't eat chicken
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:31 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "melabelle227" <carmelai@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi, I've been feeding my 56lb Plott a frozen raw diet for about a
> month and have just made the switch to "do-it-myself" raw last week
> (hurrah!). So far so good... I started with goat chunks with bone
> (because I got some at a great price) and he LOVED it.

******I am jealous as I often wish I could find goat for a decent
price. Just be cautious of "chunks" that you are feeding - if the
dog can swallow it hole without chewing the chunks may be too small
in particular for a newbie raw eater.

The goat ran
> out, and I had chicken quarters next. Now this dog is not a picky
> eater, but he won't eat the chicken (though he had no problem eating
> the frozen ground raw chicken). He licks it, nibbles it a tiny bit,
> and then leaves it.

***** After goat he likely thinks chicken is pretty boring. There
are definitely some days I get "a look" from my dog if chicken comes
out for the 2nd day in a row, but that is just the way it is. Is the
chicken frozen, thawed, room temp? Some dogs like it more room temp
wheras some like it straight from the fridge - might try switching
that up.

I'm fine with not feeding him anything else til
> he eats the chicken- I know I need to stick it out and eventually
> he'll eat-

*****Good for you!!! You are right, he will eventually eat it.

but I have some questions: (1) how long should I leave the
> chicken out for him to eat, before I put it away if he doesn't eat
it?

*****Generally my rule of thumb is about 20 minutes after no
sniffing, licking, or any other interest in it.

> (2) if this goes on for a few days, is it ok to keep putting out the
> same chicken day after day?

*****Yes, should not be a problem.

(3) is it ok for my dog to get his usual
> amount of exercise (which is a 4 or 5 mile run daily) if he isn't
eating?

******So, I admit I have bullmastiffs and their activity level is not
the same as your dogs so others may have different responses,
however, I say yes. Dogs are not like humans and go into starvation
mode much less quickly than us. I in fact think that a good amount
of excercise is only going to encourage him to actually try the
chicken. I generally will go 3 full days with something the dog is
resisting - if it comes out on the 4th and he will still not eat it
that may be when I choose to surrender. I can say though that only
fish has ever gotten us to day 4.

> Thanks everyone. I've learned a lot from the group!
> Carmela
> and Milo the Plott
>
*****No problem....I think by day 3 you will see him cave and realize
chicken isn't such a bad thing. He likely was simply holding out for
the goat again.

Marguerita

Messages in this topic (3)
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6a. Re: Newbie Intro-Ellizabeth
Posted by: "Elizabeth Dill" dill_elizabeth@yahoo.com dill_elizabeth
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:34 am ((PDT))

Hey Dawn!

Thanks so much for the welcome. I admire rescuers sooo much, if I were close by, I could donate a few hours a week to help out :>) Yes, definitely, I've learned (and am learning) tons! School starts back for me next Monday, so all I'm doing this week is reading posts and studying raw diets and animal nutrition. Way different than what what we study at school, huh? No, I haven't switched to raw yet, but Gisselle (sp??)'s postings are totally helpful because she has a great way of explaining things (like why some of the posts seems to be kind of scary i.e., all the loose stools and feeding heads and such).

I currently use Solid Gold and wet and dry, (typical). I tried feeling my girl a "real" bone when she was younger and it splintered and she got pretty sick and threw it all up, So that's when I started giving her rawhides, which she adores to this day. I'm kind of leary of switching her at 14 years. My chow is much more likely to make the transition if I'm up for it (I'm a vegetarian so that's another big mental road block for me).

Well, I've babbled enough, I'm thrilled to be here, great to hear about your success with teeth too. I'm 100% certain bones (and rawhides for me) are the key to healthy mouths! Thanks again ;>)

Elizabeth .

Dawn Ruhl <Dawnofthedanes@mac.com> wrote:
Welcome Elizabeth,
I used to be a Vet Tech... many moons ago. <G>
There is a lot to glean from this list. Your pets will
thank you when you make the switch! If you haven't
already.

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Messages in this topic (2)
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7a. Re: Aust. shep. new in nashville
Posted by: "cdhaik" cdhaik@yahoo.com cdhaik
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:44 am ((PDT))

Hi Stephanie and welcome. I am always excited about other Aussie
owners feeding raw. I have two. Amber a black tri, 2 and a half and
Rain a blue merle now only six months old. Amber has been raw fed
nine months now and Rain since we got him at 9 weeks old. Amber i
had no probs with she is a lover of raw Rain was a bit tricky as he
only knew kibble from his breeder. We stayed in Lake Tahoe for two
weeks after getting him before flying back home. We had a shortage
of freezer space there but would just swing by the grocers every
second or third day and buy his meals to refrigerate.

I started him off on chicken quarters and he took a long while to
get the jaw strong enough to crunch through the thighs and drums but
the rest he managed well. He would drag that damn piece of chook all
over the place. I never bothered rinsing just wacking in the fridge
and offering an hour or two later again. Even now he has a favourite
flower bed he drags his meal too and it gets quite a bit of sand and
stuff on it but that is his choice od seasoning. He is now attacking
pork picnic roasts and crunching through bones with great gusto. I
also added small amounts of different meats and organs over a long
period of time for a slow intraoduction of variety. Check out the
archives there is plenty of excellent info there. Hang in there I
guarantee you will not be sorry. The benefits are excellent for raw
feeding.

Caren y Amber y Rain y Angus

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8. Processing Deer?
Posted by: "Denise and David Spotila" brookside_casa@yahoo.com brookside_casa
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:45 am ((PDT))

We have several people who will be hunting for us ( the Poodles) this season. Can we use the stomach i.e. tripe? I am thinking of having all organs and tripe course ground? We will discard all weight barring bones but how do I instruct the butcher to cut the rest with as little waste as possible?

David and Denise Spotila

Brookside Casa
Standard Poodles
Great minds discuss ideas
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people.
E Roosevelt

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9a. Re: I tried and raw is just not going to work.
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:41 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "one_sojourner_one"
<onesojourner@...> wrote:
I can't starve this growing guy until he eats so, I can't just let him
skip meals until he gets hungry enough to eat this stuff. He is a picky
eater and I am quickly running out of options.

> -peter

I have had to feed one of my dogs by hand. Still am. He is so picky I
call him Ferdinand the Bull. Remember Ferdinand smelling the flowers?
Well Senator takes a bite and looks around and enjoys his yard then
takes another bite and looks around.....I just switched him to raw
(he's @ 13?) and he's not used to some of the stuff I feed him like
heart, tongue, liver. I cut it up and hand feed until he's able to
figure out that this is dinner. I don't give him any treats, etc., just
his dinner. If he doesn't eat it at once from me, I put it up and try
again later. No way will I go back to kibble, in two short weeks he's
looking great. Good luck with your pup.

Silvina

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9b. Re: I tried and raw is just not going to work.
Posted by: "one_sojourner_one" onesojourner@gmail.com one_sojourner_one
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:34 pm ((PDT))

Well I decided to give ground turkey a try (actually all I can find is
ground turkey with natural flavoring). So far it is a big hit. I also
bought some hormone and antibiotic free chicken hearts and gizzards to
try to mix in. I have been mixing in a little canidea lamb and rice
since this meat can not be getting him everything he needs. I am not
sure what I will start mixing in next.

-peter

Messages in this topic (15)
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9c. Re: I tried and raw is just not going to work.
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:09 pm ((PDT))

"one_sojourner_one" <onesojourner@...> wrote:
>
> Well I decided to give ground turkey a try (actually all I can find
is
> ground turkey with natural flavoring). So far it is a big hit. I
also
> bought some hormone and antibiotic free chicken hearts and gizzards
to
> try to mix in. I have been mixing in a little canidea lamb and rice
> since this meat can not be getting him everything he needs. I am not
> sure what I will start mixing in next.
*****
The meat is in fact adequate for a while. The notion of daily
balance comes from the laboratory, not nature. You can feed real
food all upside down for several weeks without damaging your puppy.

However, a lavish offering of variety may well cause digestive
upset. I recommend you find an unenhanced turkey product to add
those hearts and livers to; FYI everything chicken in the USofA must
by law be hormone and antibiotics free. So if you paid dearly for
your giblets, look further next time for a better price.

Adding Canidae is not necessary. Rice is never necessary. You have
time to feed a limited raw diet; over a longer stretch you will have
to get calcium into the pup but there are simpler and more natural
ways than Canidae to do that.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (15)
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10a. what to feed a scared rescue?
Posted by: "pelirojita" kerrymurray7@gmail.com pelirojita
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:44 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Ruhl <Dawnofthedanes@...> wrote:
>
> Normally, with rescues that aren't emaciated... I don't feed them
> right away.
> Just like with boarding dogs... the first night they get fresh water
> and not much else.
> Due to the trauma, even with dogs that have been here before... they
> know their
> family left them, they love coming here, but I know it is traumatic
> the first day...
> so, I basically fast them. They get a lot of love and attention, and
> by the AM they
> are ready to chow down.

Hi Dawn,

Thanks so much for the feedback. This helps me feel better about not
stressing over his food too much right now. We just got back from the
vet and he says part of the complete lack of energy is the little guy
is feeling pretty awful due to the upper respiratory infection. He
has no temp, and the vet could not induce a cough so he thinks it's
early and in a week or so he'll perk up, assuming he responds to the
antibiotics.

I used the parmesan cheese to get the antibiotic in to him and he
actually raised himself up to eat some of it. I then sprinkled it
liberally on some ground turkey and he ate probably about 2
tablespoons full.

I think I am going to try RawChat for some homeopathic recommendations
to support this little guy in his trauma, and through the antibiotics.

Thanks,
Kerry

Messages in this topic (4)
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11.1. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "vickies_28" vickies_28@yahoo.com vickies_28
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:30 pm ((PDT))

Hello All
Thanks for your feedback here. I got an update for you. When we went
to the doctor's, he did some blood work. So now he called back and
my husband was the one who talked to him. Anywhoooo
the doctor said, "I am very concered about the dog, he has elevated
white or red 9cannot remember cells, which is a sign of infection,
then he also has elevated phosfurus level and elevated something
else that make the doctor suspect pancreatitis." He said he was very
concerend. He also added that this is all because we feed him raw
food, because of the bacteria in there, and that his nose bleeds,
infection, etc is because of the bacteria in raw food and we should
stop right away. So my hubby just plain refused to feed raw, and
prohibited me to do it.
To give you some background on the puppy. He was coughing a week
ago, like really bad and we thought it was kennel cough. The doc
said NO, he said it is upper respiratory infection or most probably
just reaction of his trahea to the leash pressure, but noneless
prescribed anitibiotics. which we didn't give, because I dojn't want
to overmedicate him and he stopped coughing after we changed the
leash.
Then a week later the puppy started sneezing, had bloody discharge
from his nose and was feeling under the weather. We took him to the
doc's, he said he had a fever 103, and had an infection, because we
didn't give him the antibiotics as we were told to do. So - upper
respiratory infection. Fine. we started the antibiotics yesterday.
And now he called with the blood work, also lectured us about raw
while we were there.
What does it have to do with cancer - we had a puppy that had the
same symptoms, eye swelling, nose bleeds, etc. etc. etc. And it
turned out as cancer. We were given 1000000 antibiotics and non of
them helped becuase it was cancer.
Sorry, oit's a bit too long, but need to vent and no one in sight to
talk to about it.
any feedback will be much appreciated.
By the way, advice such as "have your husband read a book, article,
web site" about bad commercial food, and good raw food, doesn't do
anything for me. HE JUST DOESN"T LISTEN. I guess this is more of a
marriage counceling case, eh?

Vickie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Vickie" <dals4creekside@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@> wrote:
> >
> > Vickie,
> >
> > Not only does a raw diet not cause cancer, it is the first thing
> recommended
> > if/when a dog does have cancer.
> > Cancer feeds on carbohydrates....a cancer sparing diet includes
good
> quality
> > protein, good fat, no carbs. Raw!
> >
>
>
> Sandee, YES thats exactly right. When one of mine got cancer, She
got
> totally raw, no carbs. Cancer FEEDS on carbs.
>
> the other Vickie
>

Messages in this topic (29)
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12a. Re: re teeth and cardiac connection
Posted by: "Shannon Parker" mrbatisse@yahoo.ca mrbatisse
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:30 pm ((PDT))

Just to give a little more info....This bacteria targets the heart because there often are leaky valves, holes, etc in the heart (called a heart murmer) where the bacteria can lodge, grow and cause problems. I myself had a big hole in my heart and had to go on antibiotics for a few years after I had it repaired.

Shannon

tantelin22@aol.com wrote:
Toxic bacteria grow on the teeth and cause gingivitus. They can infect the
bloodstream from there, and for some reason usually target the heart. Human
dentists routinely prescribe 3 days of prophylactic antibiotics before doing
root canal and abscess removal work on humans for the same reason.

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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13a. Re: Feeding once a day
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:42 pm ((PDT))

This is another discussion we have had frequently on this list. There is
no evidence one way or another that feeding multiple small meals lessens the
chance of bloat or that large meals increase the chance of bloat. The
studies have all been inconclusive and obviously not done on rawfed dogs.

Here are just a few of the many posts available in the archives.....

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/133316
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/108358
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/64399

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Felicia Kost" <saphiradane@yahoo.com>
>
> Hello, I have danes and know several other people with danes that rawfeed.
We all feed twice daily to help prevent bloat/torsion. Although; with raw it
is much less of a concern vs. kibble fed danes. I personally fell the causes
of bloat are complex and may not been entirely nutrional related however I
still try to prevent it. I don't see any harm done feeding twice daily vs.
once daily other that convience. Do what works for you and your dogs. Just
my opinion. Felicia

Messages in this topic (11)
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