[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12077

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Starting to get a little frustrated here...
From: Stephanie Sorensen
1b. Re: Starting to get a little frustrated here...
From: mgitaville
1c. Re: Starting to get a little frustrated here...
From: carnesbill

2a. Re: new to RAW, but my English Mastiff is loving it
From: mgitaville

3a. Re: Pork as a starter?
From: katkellm
3b. Re: Pork as a starter?
From: carnesbill

4a. Re: New to the group/questions
From: Andrea
4b. Re: New to the group/questions
From: kaylsraven
4c. Re: New to the group/questions
From: carnesbill

5a. Re: feeding fish and smaller bones
From: Andrea
5b. Re: feeding fish and smaller bones
From: Howard Salob
5c. Re: feeding fish and smaller bones
From: Maggie Smith

6a. Re: Going to start!
From: Andrea

7a. Re: Feeding once a day
From: katkellm

8a. Chicken was not a crowd-pleaser!
From: qsgirl916
8b. Re: Chicken was not a crowd-pleaser!
From: Giselle
8c. Re: Chicken was not a crowd-pleaser!
From: Andrea

9a. Re: FYI for newbies
From: kaylsraven

10a. 4 dogs starting
From: Francine-Texas
10b. Re: 4 dogs starting
From: Andrea

11a. Supplement Question...again
From: nlhp4
11b. Re: Supplement Question...again
From: Giselle

12a. Re: Feeding Frozen RAW
From: carnesbill

13. Fw: Texas
From: Francine-Texas

14a. Re: Pet Tabs Plus/Vitamin A
From: brutus_buckley

Messages
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1a. Re: Starting to get a little frustrated here...
Posted by: "Stephanie Sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:37 am ((PDT))

I am currently feeding pork shoulders, and this was the first time I cut hunks off of the shoulder and just gave them boneless, but later on in the day, I gave them pork neck bones to chew on, so that should have at least somewhat made up for it, right? As far as variety, they were also getting venison, which they LOVED, but I ran out of that, having a limited supply to begin with.

I fed them each a whole 3lb chicken yesterday morning, and I won't feed again until tomorrow, since they only need about 1.2lbs a day. I also feed them strips of beef heart and a strip of liver every now and then, and they get to eat the organs along with their chicken (but Scarlet eats Lucy's chicken liver because Lucy doesn't like it).

I have a feeling I need to stick to chicken for my husband next week since I will be out of town. They seem to do the best on that.

-Steph
Scarlet, Lucy and Minkey (the kitty)

katkellm <katkellm@yahoo.com> wrote:
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "steph.sorensen"
<steph.sorensen@...> wrote:
>
Is this because I
> started them on variety too soon? Right now, they are going between
> pork and chicken,

Hi Steph,
For a month of raw feeding, 2 protein sources doesn't sound like too
much variety to me. What cut of pork are you feeding? I'm asking
because most of my pork meals tend to be boneless, since i buy pork
roasts which give me a few meatless meals and then a meal with a hunk
of bone. What i'm trying to ask is if maybe your pork meals are
just too light in the bone department for her right now. KathyM

---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

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Messages in this topic (5)
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1b. Re: Starting to get a little frustrated here...
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:37 am ((PDT))

>
> Hi Steph,
> For a month of raw feeding, 2 protein sources doesn't sound like too
> much variety to me. What cut of pork are you feeding? I'm asking
> because most of my pork meals tend to be boneless, since i buy pork
> roasts which give me a few meatless meals and then a meal with a
hunk
> of bone. What i'm trying to ask is if maybe your pork meals are
> just too light in the bone department for her right now. KathyM
>

*****I have to agree here - some dogs are more sensitive to boneless
meals than others. My bullmastiff and I learned a valuable lesson
again just recently about the difference between a pork shoulder with
bone and a boneless butt roast with regards to stools. I will give
you a hint....the latter led to a trip needed outside at 2 am. Since
you are already feeding chicken can I suggest tossing in a few
chicken feet with the boneless pork. The other option is you could
do 1/2 chicken with bone and 1/2 boneless pork for a bit if you can't
find the chicken feet.

Marguerita

Messages in this topic (5)
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1c. Re: Starting to get a little frustrated here...
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:31 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "steph.sorensen"
<steph.sorensen@...> wrote:
>
> So should I go back to chicken for a couple of weeks before
> integrating other things again?

Thats what I would suggest. Start at the beginning and get things
settled down. After a couple of weeks, gradually add back in the
pork by feeding a pork meal every other day or every three days so
you can tell if its causing a problem.

I also suggest you feed no organs for at least 2 months.

Following this procedure, you should be able to determine exactly
what is causing the dog's problem.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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2a. Re: new to RAW, but my English Mastiff is loving it
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:37 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mastiffmom08012"
<mastiffmom08012@...> wrote:
>
> AND reaping all the benefits. Hello, I'm new to this group but I do
> belong to an English Mastiff group. I'm very new to this RAW feeding
> (only been at it for approx 1 month) but I have seen such an increase
> in his activity level and cleaning up after him in the yard is much
> easier.
>
> Can you guys provide me with more education on RAW?? I want to
become
> more knowledgeable on this subject.
>
> Thank you
>
> Angela
>
> ps, can I post pics here of my Mel?
>

*******Just thought I would jump in and say as a fellow Mastiff owner
(Bullmastiffs) I am more than happy to help answer any questions you
may have.

Marguerita

Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. Re: Pork as a starter?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:38 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Kathie Middlemiss <geekgirl717@...>
wrote:
> I did get some bone-in pork ribs yesterday and am wondering if it's
okay
> to start him on pork if he won't eat the chicken?

Hi Kathie,
Sure, its fine to start him on pork ribs if he likes them. Its not a
big deal it he doesn't like chicken, however, because its usually the
cheapest option, which allows you to buy some cuts of meat that cost
more and still stay within the budget, i wouldn't give up on the
chicken yet. You could slice the chicken open and sprinkle some
Parmesan cheese on it. You could sear it just a tad to see if it gets
him interested. You could offer him a little hunk of boneless chicken
as a side dish served with his pork ribs. It sounds to me like he
wants to just chew his food and not have to rip it apart, so you could
help him do his job for awhile until he graduates to doing it for
himself. Good Luck,KathyM

Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: Pork as a starter?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:31 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Kathie Middlemiss
<geekgirl717@...> wrote:
>
> My older dog, however, not so much. He won't touch the half
> of chicken
> I was giving him for his breakfast (and then reoffering
> for dinner) but
> I did get him to eat a couple of boneless pork ribs.

<snip stuff>

> I did get some bone-in pork ribs yesterday and am wondering
> if it's okay
> to start him on pork if he won't eat the chicken?

It's ok to begin on pork ... HOWEVER ... it's NOT ok to let your dog
decide what he will and will not eat. Stop catering to him or you
will have a picky eater the rest of his life. Picky eaters are
made, not born. Deciding the diet is your responsibility.

Put his half chicken down and take it back up after 10 minutes of no
interest. No fuss, no cajoling him to eat. Put it down and get out
of the way and let him decide. Offer it again the next meal. No
between meal snacks or treats. If he snubbs it the next meal,
repeat the process. Repeat until he eats it. Some dogs will hold
out for 4 days or more but he will not starve himself.

Once he realizes that holding out won't get him a better offer, he
will eat it. He will soon learn that if he doesn't eat what you put
down, he doesn't eat at all. At that point, he will stop being a
picky eater although he may try you from time to time just to see.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: New to the group/questions
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:13 am ((PDT))

Jen Craver <jcraver1@...> wrote:

> I was told to try leg quarters for meatier meals - I think what I'm
> unclear on is how much "meat" I need to be feeding?

Lots of meat, a little bone and a little organ. If you want numbers
you can shoot for 80% meat, 10% edible bone, 10% organ.

> Additionally; I'm a little confused by amount of vegetables I should
> be feeding

That's an easy one, the amount of veggies you have to figure into
mealtime is: None. Nope, dogs are carnivores and have no nutritional
need for vegetation. A good varied raw diet will give all the
nutrients that they need. If your dog values them you can use
fruits/veggies as a treat, but they shouldn't take up real space in the
diet.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (4)
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4b. Re: New to the group/questions
Posted by: "kaylsraven" kaylsraven@yahoo.com kaylsraven
Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:31 am ((PDT))

> I am feeding predominanty a mixture of chicken backs/necks and
turkey necks - that so far is what I have local/easy access too -
when I need to I can get (with a little advance planning) rabbit,
duck, beef etc.

Backs and necks are really high in bone, not normally recommended
unless they're attached to the rest of the bird. Can you get ahold of
whole or quartered chickens? What about pork? Pork is good--one of
the cheaper red meats.

> I was told to try leg quarters for meatier meals - I think what I'm
unclear on is how much "meat" I need to be feeding?

Lots. ^_^ Rule of thumb is about 80% of the entire diet is meat if
you want numbers (I did when I started--I had the scale and was
measuring, and then got tired of it so I stopped *lol*), but you're
pretty good if you feed a lot more meat than bone.

> Additionally; I'm a little confused by amount of vegetables I
should be feeding, some sources say no more than 1x week, others are
telling me every day!

This source will tell you none :D Veggies aren't necessary, but a lot
of dogs enjoy them--my guys like peaches and carrots and, sometimes,
green beans. And grass. You can give them as treats--if they like it,
training's good--but don't sweat over it. They're carnivores. There's
no minimal daily/weekly/monthly/yearly requirement for plant matter.

Cheers,

Sabrina 'n the gang

Messages in this topic (4)
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4c. Re: New to the group/questions
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:36 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Jen Craver <jcraver1@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> Just joined the group - and have a few questions.
>
> I am feeding predominanty a mixture of chicken backs/necks
> and turkey necks - that so far is what I have local/easy
> access too - when I need to I can get (with a little
> advance planning) rabbit, duck, beef etc.

Cool ... if the chicken necks are attached to the backs, thats
good. If not, necks are pretty small for all but the very smallest
of dogs. They can be swallowed whole and cause a choking hazzard.
Turkey necks are good if not cut in half like you usually find in
grocery stores.

I suggest a good place to find good dog food is to go to a small
independent grocery store, not a chain store. Ask them to order
stuff for you in bulk. You will need a freezer for this because you
will be buying larger quanities at a time. I order my chicken
backs, turkey necks, and beef hearts that way. Don't call on the
phone to ask about this. It's too easy to say no. Go in person and
talk to the meat manager or the owner of the store. Explain that
you will be buying a lot of meat over a long period of time and they
should be willing to do business with you.

> I was told to try leg quarters for meatier meals - I think
> what I'm unclear on is how much "meat" I need to be feeding?

Leg quarters are great and cheap at Walmart where you can get them
for around 45 cents/lb in 10lb bags. Don't worry a lot about
meat/bone ratio or any other ratio's. If you feed a good variety of
animal parts from a good variety of animals, everything will balance
out over time.

> Additionally; I'm a little confused by amount of vegetables
> I should be feeding,

NO vegetables. None are needed. My dogs haven't had a veggie in
nearly 5 years. No problem with their health.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. Re: feeding fish and smaller bones
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:13 am ((PDT))

Fish are good for protein variety, but there isn't much of a
requirement for feeding them. Lots of us have to feed lots of grain
fed animals and so we supplement the diet with O3's from fish body
oils. Don't go breaking the bank on fishes, but if you can get them
cheap (or free) I wouldn't pass them up.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "michelle.pinkney"
<michelle.pinkney@...> wrote:

> So far I haven't fed fish. Fish is extremely expensive in New
> Zealand so will probably have to send my husband out to catch
> some. How often should I feed fish and how necessary is it?

Messages in this topic (5)
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5b. Re: feeding fish and smaller bones
Posted by: "Howard Salob" itiskismet1968@yahoo.com itiskismet1968
Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:31 am ((PDT))

Dear Andrea,

How about sardines? They are cheap and read about it here. Tried it yesterday and my dog devoured them.

Sincerely,

Howard

Andrea <poketmouse45@yahoo.com> wrote:
Fish are good for protein variety, but there isn't much of a
requirement for feeding them. Lots of us have to feed lots of grain
fed animals and so we supplement the diet with O3's from fish body
oils. Don't go breaking the bank on fishes, but if you can get them
cheap (or free) I wouldn't pass them up.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "michelle.pinkney"
<michelle.pinkney@...> wrote:

> So far I haven't fed fish. Fish is extremely expensive in New
> Zealand so will probably have to send my husband out to catch
> some. How often should I feed fish and how necessary is it?

---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

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Messages in this topic (5)
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5c. Re: feeding fish and smaller bones
Posted by: "Maggie Smith" redkeds@comcast.net redkeds1
Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:11 am ((PDT))

All my fault becausee you saw how great my boys look and are doing
on raw? OK, I can take that kind of blame :) My only regret with
raw feeding? Not doing it sooner!

Really - this is quite easy and you and the Danes will be fine. I
did just send you a separate email with more details and suggestions.

Maggie, Rufus and Oliver
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:
>
> Pork loin here is $4.19/lb (I think my family will be eating
that!) & they
> bought 10 pounds of chicken thighs tonight to start with. I
already have
> boneless breast I can give for treats during the day right? I am
afraid I
> won't feed them enough!
> How much food is 9 cups of k***le = to lbs of meat with bone?
> OK, I'm REALLY stressing about this. All your fault Maggie :-)

Messages in this topic (5)
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6a. Re: Going to start!
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:31 am ((PDT))

You've got it, Trina. I'd start on the low end (3lbs a day) for both
of them to reduce the chance of loose stools. Don't feed anything
smaller than a chicken quarter to them since they are so big.
Splitting the food into two meals will cut down the likeleyhood of
loose stools too. You don't need to add any calcium supplements, and
for now just focus on chicken, ok? We'll deal with organs and variety
down the road. Good luck.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:
>
> Well, for now, I am just going to start with the two pups.

Messages in this topic (4)
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7a. Re: Feeding once a day
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:31 am ((PDT))

. I don't see any harm done feeding twice daily vs. once daily other
that convience.

I'd like to go out on a limb here, after thinking about it for a day,
and say that i certainly would bet my well stocked freezer full of raw
stuff, that no one on this list feeds once a day or less often because
its convenient. I actually find that it takes more time to acquire and
feed big meals than multiple little ones. I think that everyone who
feeds big meals at irregular intervals does so because they have tried
it and believe that their dogs benefit from this style of eating. I
would go on to bet that they would instead talk about how feeding like
this most closely allows you to mimic not only the food but the habits
of a wolf, about how their dogs are physically designed to eat this
way, about how their dogs are no longer clock watchers and are
no longer obsessed with food, about how content their dog is after
being allowed to eat until they decide they are full and not when
their people tell them they are, about the increased benefits, both
physical and mental, they have seen for their dogs. It certainly is
NOT necessary to feed big meals, for some dogs with health issues it
might not even be advisable, so new to raw feeders have to read and
think and make a choice for their dogs and keep an open mind because
raw feeding is an evolving journey-has been for me anyway, but no one
should ever believe that the choice on how often to feed is made for
the sake of convenience and not made for the sake of the dog. KathyM

Messages in this topic (12)
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8a. Chicken was not a crowd-pleaser!
Posted by: "qsgirl916" qsgirl916@yahoo.com qsgirl916
Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:31 am ((PDT))

Hi,

I'm new to the group and new to raw feeding.

I started my dogs on the raw feeding diet this week. I have a
greyhound/beagle mix and a Welsh Corgi. Both dogs had ground
pork/beef for breakfast which was a big hit.

At dinner, I decided to introduce raw, meaty bones. Most of my
research said to start out with chicken - because it is bland, I
guess. However, my Corgi is allergic to poultry so he got pig's feet.
Typically, he can be a difficult and fussy eater, but he tore into
that pig's leg like a kid at Christmas.

My other dog, the easy-going one, got chicken backs. She was not
thrilled. In fact, she blatantly ignored it. I tried doing nothing
hoping hunger would get the best of her, and after several hours,
tried tempting her into it but to no avail. It went uneaten.

This morning, I put out the previously well-received ground meat. She
ate half and left the rest. The Corgi is still pigging out.

Is this normal? Do some dogs have a longer adjustment time to the new
diet? Any suggestions from any of you veterans?

Thanks!
Sarah

Messages in this topic (3)
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8b. Re: Chicken was not a crowd-pleaser!
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:12 am ((PDT))

Hi, Sarah!
Welcome!

Some dogs take to chewing and crunching faster than others, other dogs
may be concerned that they will be chastised for trying to eat 'people
food', some just don't 'get' that it is food, period.

I'm not sure what info you have gotten about raw feeding or from where.

Pigs feet are fatty and bony, they can cause 'cannon butt' in the
uninitiated - not a good first meal, nor a good meal in general -
they're an OK 'chew toy', but thats about it.

Chicken backs are also too bony - not nearly enough meat.

Just because your dog may have a sensitivity to cooked chicken in
kibble doesn't mean that he will have a problem with raw chicken.
Cooking changes the components and makes it more difficult for the dog
to digest and absorb nutrients.

Ground meats do not provide enough crunching activity to provide
dental, mental and physical activity, some of the best points of raw
feeding. for ideas to get your 'uninterested' dog engaged in real food
follow this link;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/130758
Message #130758
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/134336
Message #134336

This list supports a species appropriate raw whole prey model.
Here's a link to my recommendations to start feeding raw;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374

post # 141374

You also might be interested in using meat cuts charts, to help you
figure out what to buy;
http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/meatcharts.html
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I'm new to the group and new to raw feeding.
>
> I started my dogs on the raw feeding diet this week. I have a
> greyhound/beagle mix and a Welsh Corgi. Both dogs had ground
> pork/beef for breakfast which was a big hit.
<snip>
> Typically, he can be a difficult and fussy eater, but he tore into
> that pig's leg like a kid at Christmas.
>
> My other dog, the easy-going one, got chicken backs. She was not
> thrilled. In fact, she blatantly ignored it.
<snip>
> ate half and left the rest. The Corgi is still pigging out.
>
> Is this normal? Do some dogs have a longer adjustment time to the new
> diet? Any suggestions from any of you veterans?
>
> Thanks!
> Sarah

Messages in this topic (3)
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8c. Re: Chicken was not a crowd-pleaser!
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:23 am ((PDT))

Woah, there, I think you might be headed for some pretty sloppy
stools soon. If/when you end up with cannon butt, don't despair,
just take a step back and start over.

> Both dogs had ground pork/beef for breakfast which was a big hit.

Good that they are eating it, but mixing pork and beef might cause
digestive upset. Also, ground food doesn't offer the dental benefits
as whole foods.

> my Corgi is allergic to poultry so he got pig's feet.

Dogs that are allergic to cooked chicken or have a positive allergen
test for chicken often aren't allergic to raw chicken. Don't
necessarily count it out for your boy.

> Typically, he can be a difficult and fussy eater, but he tore into
> that pig's leg like a kid at Christmas.

Pigs feet are good chew toys, but are mainly cartilage, fat, skin,
and bone. You might see some loose stools from this. It's good to
know that he likes pork, though.

> My other dog, the easy-going one, got chicken backs. She was not
> thrilled. In fact, she blatantly ignored it.

Chicken is much less aromatic than beef and pork so it is often
snubbed at first by dogs. Backs don't have much meat on them either,
so you might try adding some breast meat to the meal.

> I tried doing nothing hoping hunger would get the best of her, and
> after several hours, tried tempting her into it but to no avail.

Don't worry if the dog turns their nose up at something you give.
Leave it down for 20 minutes or so and if they don't want it, put it
away. No treats or snacks until the next mealtime when the same food
is offered again.

> Do some dogs have a longer adjustment time to the new diet?

Yes, some dogs take to it right away while some are stubborn and try
to dictate what they get fed. You have to be pretty firm at first
otherwise you end up with a super picky eater. Don't worry, a
healthy dog won't starve itself in the presence of food. You're
doing fine, just cut back on the variety and stand your ground.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (3)
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9a. Re: FYI for newbies
Posted by: "kaylsraven" kaylsraven@yahoo.com kaylsraven
Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:32 am ((PDT))

> A post from someone like you who has recently worked through these
> distressful episodes must be a lot more reassuring than a ton of us
> long time raw feeders, who say "Its just loose poops, it'll be fine,
> really." ^_^

Not sure how long you have to feed raw before you're considered
a 'long time raw feeder' *G* but I still remember freaking out over
my GSD pup, Siris, when I brought him home two years ago and
encountered bad canon butt. I'd changed my other dogs over a year and
a half before, so I thought I was pretty cool on the whole poop
issue...not so much with a new puppy, lemme tell ya!

I tried just letting him work through it for a few days on chicken,
thinking it was just his little body adjusting (prolly was...). No
change. Tried switching him back to the kibble he'd been on when I
got him for a couple days. Not a lot of change. Okay, so let's put
him on raw but add some more bone to firm it up, right? Right...next
couple trips outside had the squirts with the occasional pause to let
a chunk of digested bone out, followed immediately by more squirts.
Someone said try tripe--not sure why, but it didn't help. He sure
enjoyed it though. Someone on-list suggested boiled chicken and rice,
to be nice and easy on his stomach--someone else on shot back almost
immediately, demanding to know how undigestible grain and changing
the chicken from its natural state was going to help soothe his
stomach? Scratch that idea, mostly. I wound up making up some white
rice and feeding him some of that with his raw, just so I could
sleep! It firmed it up in a day or two, I dropped the rice, and he
was (and is) good. Not exactly the recommended solution, but
sometimes you do what you need to do so you won't be a zombie at work
the next morning.

They settle down--it may take a while, but they settle down. When I
switched Aussie, my older ACD (older...he's four, the younger one's
three and a half *lol*) it took him a couple weeks to adjust his
stomach. On the other hand, I discovered Taffy, my old Collie, had
pretty much a cast iron stomach. All dogs is different. Nowadays, I
don't get the squirts from any of my guys hardly ever (Siris will get
them if he gets a too-large pork meal, along with the death farts,
but he so loves his pork. And chicken. And beef. And fish. And
rabbit. And goat heads. And...)

Hope that helped and didn't scare anybody off *G*

Cheers,

Sabrina 'n the gang

Messages in this topic (6)
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10a. 4 dogs starting
Posted by: "Francine-Texas" francie43@sbcglobal.net fcampinose
Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:32 am ((PDT))

I want to start my 4 large dogs on raw but how do I separate the food. Do I
need to feed one at a time if I put one in front of one or the other and one
dose not eat someone else might grab it now I just leave dry kibble down all
the time no food issues at all.
Thank you
Francine

Messages in this topic (2)
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10b. Re: 4 dogs starting
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:11 am ((PDT))

Many times dogs who didn't have resource guarding issues with ki**le
decide that their new raw food is worth guarding. I would feed the
dogs in different areas of the room or better yet, in their crates if
they have them. Just be there while they eat so you can keep the
peace.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Francine-Texas" <francie43@...>
wrote:
>
> I want to start my 4 large dogs on raw but how do I separate the
> food.

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11a. Supplement Question...again
Posted by: "nlhp4" nlhp4@yahoo.com nlhp4
Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:32 am ((PDT))

I have two one year old dogs, a lab-rotty? mix and an English
Springer Spaniel, both are completely raw fed with no supplements.

For various reasons, I am starting to doubt that they are getting the
proper nutrition and thus started to do a bit of research on
supplements. I read about two dozen postings already in this group
regarding supplements and found the USDA Nutrient Database, GREAT
RESOURCE!

I can figure out how many vitamins/minterals/fats, etc. the dogs are
currently getting based on this database, but how do I know how much
nutrients my dogs actually needs? Is there a similar web site to
this USDA site that shows the reccommended nutrients for for a dog
based on a dogs weight?

I just want to be sure the two are REALLY getting enough of what is
reccommended for proper health and growth (lab mix is still growing
like a weed!) without supplements if at all possible.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Sibyl

Messages in this topic (2)
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11b. Re: Supplement Question...again
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:46 am ((PDT))

Hi, Sybil!
All you have to do, is ask yourself the question; "What
would the wolf eat?"

Once you've done that, and remembered that the species appropriate
whole prey model is the ideal, you'll know you need to head off in
that direction more, if you want to further improve your dog's
nutrition. Not artificial supps.

Everything I've seen or heard about thats been done on dog nutrition
has come from pet food corps, bent on proving their cr*p-in-a-bag is
the best - not the most reliable source of unbiased data, imo.

Why not rely on Mother Nature's wisdom? Research sources of whole
prey, wild or grass fed, instead;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/139618
Post #139618

http://www.prey4pets.com/servlet/StoreFront

http://www.hare-today.com/index.php?cPath=23

http://www.rodentpro.com/products.asp

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I have two one year old dogs, a lab-rotty? mix and an English
> Springer Spaniel, both are completely raw fed with no supplements.
>
> For various reasons, I am starting to doubt that they are getting the
> proper nutrition and thus started to do a bit of research on
> supplements. I read about two dozen postings already in this group
> regarding supplements and found the USDA Nutrient Database, GREAT
> RESOURCE!
<snip>
> I just want to be sure the two are REALLY getting enough of what is
> recommended for proper health and growth (lab mix is still growing
> like a weed!) without supplements if at all possible.
>
> Any help is greatly appreciated!
>
> Thanks,
> Sibyl

Messages in this topic (2)
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12a. Re: Feeding Frozen RAW
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:32 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:
>
> Can I feed frozen?
> Like a frozen boneless chicken breast as a treat: not the meal
> but for
> treats in between meals?

Of course. Sometimes I forget to get something out and will feed
things like chicken leg quarters frozen for a meal.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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13. Fw: Texas
Posted by: "Francine-Texas" francie43@sbcglobal.net fcampinose
Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:34 am ((PDT))

-------Original Message-------

From: Francine-Texas
Date: 9/26/2007 9:51:30 AM
To:
Subject: Texas

Hi I live in the Texas Hill Country Marble Falls area any one know of any
raw food suppliers out my way thank you.
Francine

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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14a. Re: Pet Tabs Plus/Vitamin A
Posted by: "brutus_buckley" brutus_buckley@yahoo.com brutus_buckley
Date: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:11 am ((PDT))

//Why not clue him in to the O6 / O3 story, and encourage him to give
them Salmon or Fish Body oil supps?//

***Thanks Giselle; we already supplement with Grizzly SO. Mr. Husband
gave up on the vitamins notion, surprisingly, with no struggle
whatsoever. He said, "yeah, I don't think they really need vitamins
anyways." ??? What can I say...
-Renee W.

Messages in this topic (6)
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