[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12085

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Chickens and Ducks
From: Francine-Texas
1b. Re: Chickens and Ducks
From: Andrea
1c. Re: Chickens and Ducks
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

2a. Re: When starting out...how much is too much?
From: Andrea
2b. Re: When starting out...how much is too much?
From: costrowski75

3a. Re: Is my dog starving?
From: k9dine

4a. Re: Nutrtion seminar in Lexington Ky
From: Sandee Lee

5a. Re: Getting the cat on board
From: Giselle

6.1. Re: New to Raw
From: aliciamyan

7a. How do I start?
From: luvmy4shihtzus

8a. raw beginner
From: lamar.vaughan
8b. Re: raw beginner
From: Laura Atkinson

9a. Re: Fish and fur and other friends?
From: Michelle Grabert

10a. Re: RAW vs k***le, cost & supplements/medicines
From: Giselle
10b. Re: RAW vs k***le, cost & supplements/medicines
From: eyed_blue
10c. Re: RAW vs k***le, cost & supplements/medicines
From: girlndocs

11.1. Re: Venison
From: Tina Berry

12a. Re: Confused about beef bones
From: cleone4100

13a. Re: Demodex
From: cr008k

14.1. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: Shannon Hully
14.2. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: vickies_28

15a. 2yr old dog new to raw, sick
From: Kay
15b. Re: 2yr old dog new to raw, sick
From: Laura Atkinson

16a. Puppy evaluation/admonished for feeding raw
From: cavkist
16b. Re: Puppy evaluation/admonished for feeding raw
From: Laura Atkinson

Messages
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1a. Chickens and Ducks
Posted by: "Francine-Texas" francie43@sbcglobal.net fcampinose
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:59 pm ((PDT))

If I start feeding my dogs raw will they bother my chickens and ducks that
they now get along fine with?
Thank You

Francine
francie43@sbglobal.net

Messages in this topic (3)
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1b. Re: Chickens and Ducks
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:18 pm ((PDT))

If they get along fine now they will get along fine when fed a species
appropriate diet.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Francine-Texas" <francie43@...>
wrote:
>
> If I start feeding my dogs raw will they bother my chickens and ducks
> that they now get along fine with?

Messages in this topic (3)
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1c. Re: Chickens and Ducks
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:18 pm ((PDT))

my dogs don't like doing the plucking of the birds at our house, they did find a dead pigeon out back and played with it like a stuffed toy, so I don't think they put the two together that it could have been food.
I do alot of rehabing here with birds and that was a concern of mine too. I don't feed my dogs birds with feathers though, so that may be the difference. If you do feed with the feathers on, that, would be a problem, I would think, then they would know, that is a bird, and I might like a snack:)
My dogs like to jump up for the birds coming down in to get seed, and I am constantly training for them not too, so it's a training thing in mho. Up to you.
Jeni

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Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: When starting out...how much is too much?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:59 pm ((PDT))

I'd say start off between 1-1.5lbs a day. You'll know pretty quickly
if you are feeding too much and you can back off. I'm going off a
guestimate of around 65lbs ideal adult weight. Don't worry too much
about loose stools, they are the only way for you to know when you've
given too much too fast.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Mark Lester <iumadness64@...> wrote:
>
> I am ready to try the 'raw diet' for my 9mo golden retriever/yellow
lab. I got her approx a week ago from the shelter. I keep reading
that when you start the dog on the 'raw diet' that too little is better
than too much. This reduces the chances of loose stool. She is approx
45lbs. How much is too much to feed her?

Messages in this topic (3)
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2b. Re: When starting out...how much is too much?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:56 pm ((PDT))

Mark Lester <iumadness64@...> wrote:
I keep reading that when you start the dog on the 'raw diet' that
too little is better than too much. This reduces the chances of
loose stool. She is approx 45lbs. How much is too much to feed her?
*****
Okay, so there are some variables to consider. One, there's too much
food as in one simply gives the dog too much to eat. That issue can
be reduced by feeding at the low end of the recommended range. My
guess is a reasonable adult weight for this Lab/golden girl might be
55lb.

Using a 2%-3% range (a good enough place to start), you might feed
her as little as a generous pound or as much as a healthy pound and a
half. It is harder with rescue or shelter dogs since you don't know
the actuals, but the generals usually suffice. If she's a skinny,
leggy 45lb, she'll probably weigh more than 55lb. If she's compact
and her parts are in pretty good proportion, she will be probably
mature closer to 55lb.

So to avoid this version of "too much" feed the lesser percentages,
and adjust up as you see need.

Then there's the too much that relates to meal size. You might
decide on an appropriate amount to feed her but given her iffy
history, you may have to feed her three times a day instead of two,
or two instead of one in order to minimize digestive distress.

To avoid this version of "too much", start with smaller more frequent
meals and move to fewer meals when you see she's literally and
figuratively solid.

And then there's the "too much fat", which can be mitigated by
feeding lean for a while.

And of course there's the "too much new" which is pretty much the
same as "too much variety". The threat of that can be lessened by
choosing one protein source and sticking to it until she's good and
comfortable with it. And then moving gently to the next protein
source.

Keep in mind though that loose stools are not bad things. They can
be unfortunate and distressing to the human, but at their best they
merely represent what was fed. They give you an indication of what
you have to do next. If there is a total disconnect between what you
fed and the quality of stool, it's a clue that something else may be
going on besides too much food.

As you get to know your girl's stomach, you'll be able to anticipate
the various too muches.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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3a. Re: Is my dog starving?
Posted by: "k9dine" k9dine@yahoo.com k9dine
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:59 pm ((PDT))

What temperature is the food? Warmer food has a greater scent, so
maybe warming it up to at least room temperature before you give it to
her will help (for my cats I run warm tap water over the bag with their
goodies from the fridge - not that they need much encouragement). I've
also heard rubbing the sliced-into food with something good and smelly
can help. Maybe crush a few kibbles (if you still have some, that is)
or put some stinky canned food on it (or parmesan cheese, or egg if the
dog likes egg).

Good luck!

Amanda

Messages in this topic (6)
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4a. Re: Nutrtion seminar in Lexington Ky
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:19 pm ((PDT))

We discussed this earlier in the year when he was a guest on Oprah. He
*says* raw feeding is best but then goes on to say he cooks meat, rice,
potatoes, pasta, etc. In his book he recommends that a meal contain 1/4
meat, 1/2 grain and 1/4 veggies.

I really think you will get better information hanging around here! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Felicia Kost" <saphiradane@yahoo.com>

> Yes, that is a great idea. My computer skill are lacking to say the least.
The advice on this list is free so maybe I don't want to pay for his. It
sounded good though. So far he seems to promote raw feeding first. He seems
to reccommend small amounts of fresh vegtables though. I like his idea if
treating the whole animal nutrionally. Thanks Felicia

Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. Re: Getting the cat on board
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:43 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Anita!
I have to get a clarification from you for my own peace of mind;
You are only feeding chicken BACKS now?
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

<snip>
"I just keep a big container of chicken backs in the fridge. "
<snip>
Any other suggestions or ideas?
> TIA
> --
> ~Anita
>
> Keep up with us at http://craftywrights.blogspot.com/

Messages in this topic (8)
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6.1. Re: New to Raw
Posted by: "aliciamyan" alicia_larson@msn.com aliciamyan
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:18 pm ((PDT))

Thanks again for the replies.

I think we are on the same page about the beef. I just needed to make
sure it wasn't beef bones in general. The only bones we've given are
ones worth chewing on - which is the meaty kind. The large "clean"
bones aren't worth packing home for any reason. We too dispose of the
remaining bone - not safe for the dog or for bystanders when the
lawnmower hits them. As for making requests to the butcher, thanks for
the encouragment. I have a tendency to be too accomodating for my own
good. Sounds a bit strange, but I can't wait for the next batch of
steers to grow up. Maybe I'll head out with the hubby at feeding time
and throw them extra hay - jk! We usually butcher 2 to 4 steer at a
time and our customers almost never want the "extras", which means I'll
need another freezer! To think what we've been "wasting" all these
years while feeding our dogs the other stuff makes me sick.

Alicia

Messages in this topic (35)
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7a. How do I start?
Posted by: "luvmy4shihtzus" luvmy4shihtzus@yahoo.com luvmy4shihtzus
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:18 pm ((PDT))

I have VERY picky small dogs. How do I get started with raw feeding?
What do I feed them that will address all of their issues? Do I need a
meat grinder so they don't choke? Here are my kids:

12 year old female Shih Tzu with heart failure, cancer, bronchitis,
immune system weakening, extremely picky eater, bad teeth, and
underweight (cardiac cachexia, possibly)

12 year old female Shih Tzu (sister) with heart murmur, allergies, and
overweight

6 year old male Shih Tzu with sensitive stomach, severe fish allergy

5 year old male terrier rescue with skin allergies, aggressive with
other dogs when he's eating his food, food gulper/hoarder, skin
allergies, overweight

9 month old male Shih Tzu with skin allergies

4 month old male Shih Tzu, very little, adult teeth almost in but not
yet, has runny poop when I try to feed him anything other than kibble

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Kristi

Messages in this topic (8)
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8a. raw beginner
Posted by: "lamar.vaughan" jlamarvaughan@hotmail.com lamar.vaughan
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:19 pm ((PDT))

I have a puppy that I am starting to change over to raw. Would it upset
his system if I made a sudden change over or should he be slowly
introduced to raw? Also, does it matter if I serve raw room temperature
or should it be served right out of the fridge?

J.L.

Messages in this topic (2)
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8b. Re: raw beginner
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:23 pm ((PDT))

Toss the kibble stuff and just feed him <g>. I found that Robin tended to
hork fridge temp meats up and re-eat them again...sort of a pre-warming
cycle?...but she grew out of it.

On 9/27/07, lamar.vaughan <jlamarvaughan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I have a puppy that I am starting to change over to raw. Would it upset
> his system if I made a sudden change over or should he be slowly
> introduced to raw? Also, does it matter if I serve raw room temperature
> or should it be served right out of the fridge?
>
> J.L.

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell

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Messages in this topic (2)
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9a. Re: Fish and fur and other friends?
Posted by: "Michelle Grabert" chalienme@yahoo.com chalienme
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:19 pm ((PDT))

ok, so whatever fowl or critter you are feeing they get ALL, fur and feathers? Do they eat the fur and feathers>? And with fish....fed whole...all those needle sharp bones inside are perfectly ok for pups/dogs to swallow and eat? thanks. michelle

costrowski75 <Chriso75@AOL.COM> wrote: "rawnewfie" <rawnewfie@...> wrote:
>
>I know the Newf
> was fed a diet based on fish and some kind of grain meal on the
working boats of old.
*****
This does not necessarily make either fish or grain an appropriate
menu item. Newfs were bred from other dogs which were bred from
other other dogs which were bred from other dogs and when you take it
back not so far at all those dogs were bred from wolves and despite a
mere couple of centuries, Newfs are still wolves. The breed as a
whole has no unique dietary requirements. Some Newfs--just as
certain dogs of any breed--may have health issues that require
specific menu adjustments, but that's it. I assume your pup will be
well bred and healthy.

Your Newf has no nutritional need for grain and no physiologial means
of access to it. Do the kid a favor, skip the grains.

Fish can indeed be a useful and nutritious part of the diet
especially when you feed whole fish (as in intact, head to tail) but
I recommend you include other critters as well. The more red meat
you can get into your dogs the better, and you'll need to feed lovely
juicy meaty bones for the dental benefits and occasionally you'll
probably want to toss in some liver, although if you are feeding
whole fish (and you will be, no?) then you'll have most of if not all
of the liver needs covered.

Also I was thinking of trying some whole rabbits and
> game birds as I find them.
*****
The more the merrier. The wholer the better.

My sweet old retriever? I just don't see her grubbing a rabbit, She
> is more likely to mourn for it. Should I um, well... "open" it
first or something?
*****
You may have to anyway, it's hard to know beforehand how even our
youngsters will take to fur and hair. For your sweet old dog, I
recommend you feed whatever works, whenever it works, however you
need to offer it. Dear seniors deserve at least that. You might
consider keeping meals small and simple, and feed as many of them
through the day as she does best on.

> What about prey drive? My dogs have always lived amongst my garden
laying hens and
> tortoise?
*****
If they honored the hens and tortoise on kibble, they will when fed
raw. If your dogs were disrespectful hooligans on kibble, raw will
not fix the behavior. It's a training thing.
Chris O

---------------------------------
Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos.

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Messages in this topic (4)
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10a. Re: RAW vs k***le, cost & supplements/medicines
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:34 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Trina!
If I were you, and I *was* there at one point, I'd forget
trying to convert kibble measurements to raw measurements or vice
versa. It makes your head hurt, has no redeeming value, and, since all
your dogs are going to make the switch to raw and NEVER look back, its
ultimately an exercise in futility. ^_^

Your calculations will be easier and more helpful to you and your dogs
if you just decide on a starting amount for each dog, the lower amount
is almost always where you should start, and plan to ADJUST and TWEAK
for the rest of the dog's life! Feeding raw to your dogs is more an
act of love, and an art - not a scientific calculation or 'tab A fits
into slot B' sort of procedure.

Most experienced raw feeding peeps on this list, I dare say, don't
weigh their dogs, or the dog's food. You might start out that way, but
it quickly becomes apparent that its not necessary. Get used to really
looking at each dog's appearance, feel of his ribs and back bone and
hip bones, and feed a bit more if the dog is getting a little lean, a
bit less if the dog is getting too 'fluffy'. Its a dynamic, and
organic process. And fun, if you let it be.

A lot of peeps (US) make a plan to spend less than $1 per pound of
protein - they make that, and under, by taking advantage of all the
freebies they can source, and spending more $$ on protein variety or
parts or organs they have to buy.

Once you factor in future savings on vet care, you'll be good to go!
You may even find you need to reevaluate and reduce, or eliminate,
meds for some of the dogs. Raw feeding helps dog's bodies to repair
their immune systems and physical health. Its not a cure-all, but it
is remarkable. Its not just soft coats, bright eyes, sparkly teeth and
increased energy that you'll be seeing as positive changes in your
dogs happen, but a lot of intangible benefits, too.

Have you looked at The Lis List for creative ways to obtain cheap &/or
free protein variety?
You could print it out, highlight the most likely items to start with,
and use it to refer back to later, to explore other options and get
more sources pinned down. You can even use The Lis List to find free
or cheap freezers to keep all the meat you'll be finding!
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/140467
post # 140467

You can always keep a little cheap ground meat on hand to make
meatballs to feed supps in. Chicken or turkey hearts make a great
medicine time treat. Just slip the pill into the cavity and watch them
gobble them up!
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

<snip>
> My old Dal gets a powdered medicine... I wonder should I roll his
chicken in
> it like a coating? His other supplements we are still giving in a
ball of
> canned. These are necessary for his health as well as the others taking
> specific supplements & medications.
> I didn't do well in math so if I made a mistake, help me out!!
> I hope I am getting this right.
<snip>
we all get the hang of things. I
> don't plan to go back!
> Trina
> --
> Chip (deaf Dalmatian)
> Casper (deaf Great Dane)
> Whisper (deaf Great Dane)
> Louie (hearing Great Dane)
> Joey (deaf & blind Lhasa Apso)
> Amy (disabled Lhasa Apso)
> Cassandra (disabled Lhasa Apso)
> Mr Paris (Lhasa Apso)
> Chloe (deaf & blind Spaniel mix)

Messages in this topic (5)
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10b. Re: RAW vs k***le, cost & supplements/medicines
Posted by: "eyed_blue" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:13 pm ((PDT))

My pup was in and out of the vets before 'going raw' and since the
very first meal of being raw fed has not had to see a vet once.
Prior to this I had spent about £150.00+ in just one month on
consultation fees, diahrea tab's, eye-drops, AB's, steroid,
antihistamines..... and the problems were still there, add to that
he could be fine on a food then if something gave him the runs, I
couldnt get him back on the food, thats half a bag of food wasted,
the cost of buying and trying other food only for the remainder to
be given or thrown away....

Almosty every symptom that he has ever had has almost dissapeared
since we started raw feeding and his very bad excess gas and colitis
hasn't returned once since raw feeding.

I now realise that what I have is a healthy dog whos body was
rejecting all the crap that they put into the so-called premium
pet 'food' that I was paying a fortune for.

Also I buy from what you would call a co-op type set-up so I only
spend what a 'good' k****e would cost, if not less. Even if I bought
from the butcher all the time it would only be the same cost as
ki**le/cans.

Add that to not having to smell stinking poo when i pick up after
him, as well as that there's less to pick up less often.

Have recently spoken to someone who's had to pay £500.00 for dental
treatment on their spaniel and is now spending money feeding two
denta-sticks a day to prevent another £500. bill in the future, I'm
confident it's not likley I will need to spend money on either
sticks or serious dental work (which also carries the worry of
anaesthetic)

Raw feeding also reduces the risk of thyroid trouble/cancer brought
on by BHA/BHT, which is used even in some very well known brands,
labelled as an ec additive or antioxidant.

I dont use supplements for a few reasons and so that cost does not
even exist. When it comes to medicines you will have to give these
anyway, regardless of what you are feeding (although I believe long
term you wont need as many if raw fed = less expense)

When you think of all this RAW FEEDING MORE THAN PAYS FOR ITSELF!!

Sorry if this was a bit long winded, I do try to limit my posts but
never seems to work!! lol

Natalie

Messages in this topic (5)
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10c. Re: RAW vs k***le, cost & supplements/medicines
Posted by: "girlndocs" girlndocs@hotmail.com girlndocs
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:13 pm ((PDT))

Hi Trina,

If you feel you absolutely have to be able to compare kibble
unit-to-unit with raw (and it can definitely be helpful, for example
to do a reality check on how different the cost of raw may or may not
be) I find the easiest and most usable way to do that is to compare
them on a per-day basis, not per cup or per pound.

Divide the cost of a bag of kibble by how many days it lasts you and
you have the per-day cost to feed that kibble.

Calculate the pounds of meat per day you feed by the average price per
pound you pay (or expect to pay) and there's your cost per day to feed
raw.

Do NOT forget that there are benefits not included in this comparison,
for instance, the cost of dental work and cleanings is pretty much
completely eliminated with raw prey-model feeding, and that's nothing
to sneeze at. Similarly you want to consider that there may be fewer
vet bills for other issues, less work picking up poop, there will
surely be better overall health and quality of life for your dogs, you
may have better peace of mind about the safety of their food source,
and so on.

In my case when I did the numbers I found that feeding raw costs the
same as it would to feed the lowest price kibble I consider edible
(not ideal, but edible), which happens to be Canidae. I budget a
dollar a pound for Zoe's meat; I get quite a bit of that cheaper, so
I'm able to spend a bit over $1/lb for some items and it all comes out
in the wash.

Kristin

Messages in this topic (5)
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11.1. Re: Venison
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:13 pm ((PDT))

Ditto what Bill said; and mine have eaten venison not frozen yet, just
refrigerated for years and been fine.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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12a. Re: Confused about beef bones
Posted by: "cleone4100" cleone4100@aol.com cleone4100
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:13 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Misty Sargent <jrtlover27@...>
wrote:
>
> What part of the leg are you giving them?

I get a bag from the grocery store that contains knuckles (knees &
hocks?) and sawn portions of the leg bone. So if the knuckles are
okay, it is the leg bone now that has me concerned. These are cut
into slices about 1-3" thick, depending on the width of the bone,and
have little on them other than the marrow. My dogs enjoy them so
much, I was disappointed when I saw the concerns mentioned in the
emails. And it makes a big difference in their teeth.

So what do you think, leave the knuckles but lose the leg slices?

>
> Thanks, Carey, Biscuit & Gravy
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s
user panel and lay it on us.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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13a. Re: Demodex
Posted by: "cr008k" crakoczy@gmail.com cr008k
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:13 pm ((PDT))

Hello
I'm new- we have 2 beagles (Molly- 9 months; Bailey almost 4 months)
that we are going to be switching over to raw food very soon. Molly
has a mild case of localized demodex and was put on some kind of
medicine from the vet that she gets orally by a syringe once a day.
My question, for the person who said they fed their bulldog with
demodex on raw and that the dog was looking great (or anyone else who
has experience with this) will the raw food really have an affect on
the demodex and if so, how long will it take to see an improvement in
her itching. She's been on the meds from the vet for almost 3 weeks
and she still has a red spot on one of her legs and she is still
itching :(
We're planning on starting on chickens (either whole or the chicken
quarters) and then slowly introducing other proteins and organs.
Thanks!
Christy

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> Why do you think your girl doesn't do well with whole foods? Feeding
> ground food really limits the variety you can find and it does
> nothing good for your dog's dental health. If your girl tries to
> swallow her food whole I think you should try giving her really big
> pieces. So big that she physically cannot swallow it without ripping
> and tearing into it. To start with I would say feed around 1.5lbs to
> each dog and reduce or increase the amount as necessary. There's no
> need to try and get it perfect at first because all dogs are
> different. If you feel your girl is too skinny, increase the amount
> of food. Easy peasy.
>
> Andrea
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "sarajane" <leopardjunkie@>
> wrote:
>
> > We have an american bulldog that has been on raw due to demodex and
> > is looking so fantastic no chemicals. We feed ground as she does
> > not do well with whole or chunks.
> >
> > She weighs about 65 pounds and is skinnier than I would like she
> > could gain a few pounds
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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14.1. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "Shannon Hully" summerwolf@theherbalhotline.com bluehankw
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:16 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "vickies_28" <vickies_28@...>
wrote:
>
Well, our experience was that our puppy had diarrhea, loss of
appetite, and vomiting. He'd always been prone to vomiting bile when
he figured it was feeding time and we didn't though (possibly a
warning sign). My poor boy lost so much weight he was pretty much
*literally* skin and bones before the vet found the right test to try
to pinpoint his problem. :-( He was a long-haired Shepherd so you
didn't notice it as easily looking, but if you ran your hands along
his sides they would bump in and out on each rib, then they cut right
to the spine at the end of the ribs, it was awful! We were going
crazy trying to find out what was wrong with him. He had been on
antibiotics for something to do with his stomach (sorry, it's been
almost 13 years!) right before this, may have been a warning sign,
may have been a trigger, I have no idea. :-(

I'd cut way back on the fat until he's feeling better (assuming
you're actually having any problems along these lines!) then slowly
bring it back.

Have you looked up pancreatitis on-line at all? I bet you could find
a plethora of good info out there that might help you to either know
what tests to ask your vet to do or what to look for yourself.

Good luck, knowledge is half the battle!

Shannon H.

> What are the symptoms of pancreatitis and how would I suspect my dog
> has it? Until we saw that crazy vet I didn't even think he had a
> digestive problem.,and don't think he does now.
> We saw the vet for the sneezing and fever and not feeling well. But
> after we got the antibiotics for upper respiratory infection the dog
> seems better.

Messages in this topic (46)
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14.2. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "vickies_28" vickies_28@yahoo.com vickies_28
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:29 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

Thanks, Shannon.
What if a dog doesn't have any of these symptoms? just the blood work?

Vickie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Shannon Hully" <summerwolf@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "vickies_28" <vickies_28@>
> wrote:
> >
> Well, our experience was that our puppy had diarrhea, loss of
> appetite, and vomiting. He'd always been prone to vomiting bile
when
> he figured it was feeding time and we didn't though (possibly a
> warning sign). My poor boy lost so much weight he was pretty much
> *literally* skin and bones before the vet found the right test to
try
> to pinpoint his problem. :-( He was a long-haired Shepherd so you
> didn't notice it as easily looking, but if you ran your hands along
> his sides they would bump in and out on each rib, then they cut
right
> to the spine at the end of the ribs, it was awful! We were going
> crazy trying to find out what was wrong with him. He had been on
> antibiotics for something to do with his stomach (sorry, it's been
> almost 13 years!) right before this, may have been a warning sign,
> may have been a trigger, I have no idea. :-(
>
>

Messages in this topic (46)
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________________________________________________________________________

15a. 2yr old dog new to raw, sick
Posted by: "Kay" k12lytle@flash.net kay12327
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:39 pm ((PDT))

I recently converted a foster dog I have to the raw diet. Her teeth
had a good amount of plaque, coat not good, etc. Her teeth are
looking great - white for the first time!

However, she's having bouts of vomiting. I don't remember how many
weeks it's been since I switched her. Maybe 3. She had 1 day of
fasting, then the following day I started her on chicken backs. When
on processed food, she was a gulper.

I don't know if I started her too fast, or what. Could the raw diet
be causing the puking? It isn't all the time. We've had 2 small
spots that contained bone pieces that were the size of 1/2 a cracker
several weeks ago. Then today she's barfed everywhere, liquid &
grass.

If she eats her food too fast could it cause this? By this afternoon
she was ready to eat & had a tin of sardines & a big chunk of veal
w/bone. Yesterday she had buffalo ribs. Before that it was always
either chicken backs or turkey necks.

I was worried about a bone puncture in the gut, but now she's
running, jumping & climbing like usual. When I checked out her guts
this morning & pushed around (after the puking) she groaned, but
didn't cry. I didn't feel anything suspicious.

Any thoughts? I'd like to be able to rule out the raw diet.:)

Thanks,

Kay

Messages in this topic (2)
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15b. Re: 2yr old dog new to raw, sick
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:53 pm ((PDT))

Too much bone too soon would be my diagnosis. Start her on something with
some more meat on it. And if she's still giving you bile urps, give her a
small snack in between meels.

On 9/27/07, Kay <k12lytle@flash.net> wrote:
>
> I recently converted a foster dog I have to the raw diet. Her teeth
> had a good amount of plaque, coat not good, etc. Her teeth are
> looking great - white for the first time!
>
> However, she's having bouts of vomiting. I don't remember how many
> weeks it's been since I switched her. Maybe 3. She had 1 day of
> fasting, then the following day I started her on chicken backs. When
> on processed food, she was a gulper.
>
> --
> Laura A
> Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
> Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
> Bertrand Russell

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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16a. Puppy evaluation/admonished for feeding raw
Posted by: "cavkist" cavkist@yahoo.com cavkist
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:06 pm ((PDT))

Hello group -
I had my litter of Cavalier pups evaluated today by a well-known AKC
judge who routinely evaluates litters for breeders. She told me that
by feeding raw I'm giving my puppies too many calories from protein
and their front legs are starting to "bow out" because of the improper
nutrition. She said a puppy in the wild would never be given the
quality and quantity of protein I'm feeding.
May I have some feedback from others who have had success in weaning
pups onto raw. I'm sold on raw just a little rattled by the comments.
Your thoughts and comments in this regard, please.
Thanks so much.
Caren O'Connor
Nansemond Cavaliers

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

16b. Re: Puppy evaluation/admonished for feeding raw
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:15 pm ((PDT))

Ok, here it goes.

You are not feeding a high protein diet. You are feeding a combination of
vitamins, minerals, WATER, protein, fat and even some limited carbs.
(there's a recent thread about feeding 100% protein, it's just not
happening)

If there's a nutritional aspect to the legs bowing, then let's evaluate WHAT
you're feeding them and fix that. My suspicion (as usual) is that you're
probably feeding too much calcium (aka bone) for the puppies. But let's
start with what they're eating and go from there.

On 9/27/07, cavkist <cavkist@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hello group -
> I had my litter of Cavalier pups evaluated today by a well-known AKC
> judge who routinely evaluates litters for breeders. She told me that
> by feeding raw I'm giving my puppies too many calories from protein
> and their front legs are starting to "bow out" because of the improper
> nutrition. She said a puppy in the wild would never be given the
> quality and quantity of protein I'm feeding.
> May I have some feedback from others who have had success in weaning
> pups onto raw. I'm sold on raw just a little rattled by the comments.
> Your thoughts and comments in this regard, please.
> Thanks so much.
> Caren O'Connor
> Nansemond Cavaliers
>

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

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