[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12083

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Clarification on proper food amount
From: costrowski75

2.1. Re: New to Raw
From: carolejc2007
2.2. Re: New to Raw
From: costrowski75

3a. Re: raw meat only
From: Andrea
3b. Re: raw meat only
From: Brandi Bryant
3c. Re: raw meat only
From: one_sojourner_one

4a. new to feeding raw
From: maxieii
4b. Re: new to feeding raw
From: mgitaville
4c. Re: new to feeding raw
From: carnesbill

5a. Re: Is my dog starving?
From: carnesbill

6a. Re: New to the group/questions
From: Stephanie McGuirk
6b. Re: New to the group/questions
From: girlndocs

7a. Re: Dog with Eating Disorder
From: annemariekruit

8a. Egg
From: Francine-Texas
8b. Re: Egg
From: costrowski75

9a. Re: Getting the cat on board
From: bonniepunch
9b. Re: Getting the cat on board
From: costrowski75
9c. Re: Getting the cat on board
From: Anita Wright

10a. Re: Link between high protein diets and "hyper" behavior?
From: swilken61
10b. Re: Link between high protein diets and "hyper" behavior?
From: Yasuko herron
10c. Re: Link between high protein diets and "hyper" behavior?
From: annemariekruit

11. Confused about beef bones
From: cleone4100

12. Nutrtion seminar in Lexington Ky
From: Felicia Kost

13. Serving Size
From: sarajane

14a. Re: puking pets
From: Pet Owner

Messages
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1a. Re: Clarification on proper food amount
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:22 am ((PDT))

Kathie Middlemiss <geekgirl717@...> wrote:
>
> I brought our lab pup in to the vet yesterday for his checkup, etc.
>
> He's 13 weeks now and is 30 pounds. The vet told me that he would
be
> 'an easy hundred' size wise.
>
> I anticipated a 65-75 pound dog and ended up with a moose instead!!
*****
I recommend you not take your vet's prognosis to heart. Most dogs
vets see are overweight. I think there are few Labs that are fit and
trim and healthy at "an easy hundred." I have seen lots of obese
ones at that weight that though, and yes, in many cases the owner is
thrilled the dog breaks the century mark even if the vet does gently
(so as not to offend the client) suggest the Lab is a tad thick
around the middle. Lab pups should not be camera-cute roly poly and
Lab adults suffer from too many joint and heart-related issues to
allow them to be roly poly grownups.

Other than breed standard (which is not relevant to many Labs), do
you have any references to rely on? Parents? Anecdotes about
parents?

> So, I want to clarify that I should be feeding Max
*****
I personally think he's past the "10% of current puppy weight" age;
at any rate he will certainly be by 16 weeks.

I don't think he's going to be 100+ pounds genetically. It's my
recommendation you feed him based on a higher weight than what you
thought but less than the vet's prediction. Which would be maybe 80-
85lb? But the best way to deal with this baby beast is to feed
amounts that keep him looking like the athlete he is supposed to be.
Pick a reasonable adult weight and if the corresponding amount of
food porks him out or (more likely) produces loose stools and other
digestive distress, feed less. And if/when he goes through the "skin
and bones" phase, increase food accordingly. You should never stop
adjusting anyway.

You might consider a starting range of something under two pounds to
perhaps something over two and a half pounds; like I said, somewhere
between your anticipations and the vet's.

As a puppy I want to make certain I'm giving him everything he
needs.
*****
As do we all. We none of us are content to settle for inadequate
nutrition. Meat, organs, edible bone. Protein variety and body part
variety. That's what the raw E ticket buys you: Everything.

> However I've read that labs can and will just eat what ever's there
too,
> which is why so many pet labs look more like seals and not dogs, so
I
> don't want to over feed.
*****
This is sometimes mythology, sometimes disease-related, often times
human error. I find the phenom a blessing myself, since it generally
means whatever I feed gets eaten. Just don't overfeed.

FWIW, When I got my current (fieldbred) Labster (he's 9yo now), his
breeder told me the pups were gonna be big. And yes, you could tell
by looking at the litter that there were no runts. I told the
breeder the pup wasn't going to top 85lb; if he did I was returning
him. I have no idea what he really weighs but I have always fed him
as if he weighs 85lb and darn if he doesn't look great! A couple of
his lower ribs show just a bit through his coat when he's bucking and
pronking and cavorting, otherwise he's lean without being the least
bit bony.

I have seen one of his brothers and yes, I'm certain the bro is over
100. Should he be? Not in my estimation.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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2.1. Re: New to Raw
Posted by: "carolejc2007" mooska2me@sbcglobal.net carolejc2007
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:36 am ((PDT))

I gave my dogs beef ribs last night for the first time and that is
exactly what they did...ate the meat/cartilage and left the bones!

Carole

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:

> When my boys get beef ribs they usually strip the meat
> and cartilage off the bones and then leave them around the house.
> Same thing with beef necks.

> Andrea

Messages in this topic (34)
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2.2. Re: New to Raw
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:09 am ((PDT))

"aliciamyan" <alicia_larson@...> wrote:
I will let go of my "perfect layed plans" and go with the
> flow of reality - it is just so against my nature.
*****
When I had a career, my show up job was to keep clients, suits,
creative types and suppliers all marching in the same direction to
the same tune for the same reason at the same time. It's a perfect
job for someone who thinks herding cats is a doable proposition.
Like the guy in "The A Team" said, I love it when a plan comes
together. I do love making plans and I don't like mere reality
getting in the way. But I get the joke.

You can't herd cats and you can't tell a dog's digestion to get a
grip. What you can do is breathe, relax, simplify and truly believe
that a day or a week or a couple months of chaotic dining will not
harm an otherwise healthy dog. And it will not harm you either. For
sicky dogs, you slow the process down even more.

Are beef bones a "no-no"?
*****
Not a flat out no-no, but certainly a committed maybe-maybe.

For years, because we do have easy
> access, we give them as "treats". But now I've read your post and
> another post ("we don't talk about beef an awful lot because most
of
> the bones are inedible (tooth wreckers--too dense/hard).") and
> wonder if I shouldn't be?
*****
I think there's clear evidence that dense weight-bearing bones cause
tooth damage. If not now, later. Eventually the odds will catch up
with you. I don't recommend providing barenaked weight bearing bones
from animals that had a LOT of weight to bear, and I don't care how
much fun the dog has with them.

However, the "you gotta do what you gotta do" rule works both ways:
sometimes the "gotta" is more restrictive than what I would choose,
sometimes it's less. Either way, we have to live with our
decisions. If you are comfortable with your dogs gnawing on bare cow
bones, continue the practice. Just keep watch on dem pearly whites.

Or is the point being made that we
> shouldn't be relying on beef bones as a mainstay? Which wasn't my
> thought anyway - I like using them for entertainment.
*****
I look at beef bones precisely opposite. I do not feed them for
entertainment but I will offer splendidly meaty beef bones if they
are truly splendidly meaty. But I collect up the bones when the
meat's been removed.

So an untrimmed shank I would be proud to feed. And I would happily
feed an untrimmed neck (or at least a haphazardly trimmed neck) if
only I could find one. And a slab o' ribs is a combo of light meal
and heavy entertainment, with a bit of edible bone thrown in. I get
huge, unnamed meaty bones from a local butcher that contribute very
little edible bone but take easily an hour to strip clean. IMO these
are GREAT beef bones.

Otherwise, I am content to feed beef as a meatymeat meal with no
dietary bone...or "compensated" later by a bony RMB meal, like pork
necks maybe. Or chicken backs.

now I will be asking
> to keep the "extras" (ie. heart, tongue, other organs, etc.)
*****
No no! Do not ASK. Tell. You are the customer. You have first
right of refusal on the throwaway stuff. In most states, you are the
only place other than the rendering barrel to which that good stuff
can legally go. Just say how you want the steer cut and tell the
butcher you want the offal and trim. There's nothing you can't
consider. You should make the decisions though, not the butcher
Chris O

Messages in this topic (34)
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3a. Re: raw meat only
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:36 am ((PDT))

Well, the most important would be liver, but anything you can find is
good. Most often kidney and liver are the easiest ones to find. FYI,
for rawfeeding purposes heart and tongue are considered muscle meat.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Francine-Texas" <francie43@...>
wrote:
>
> what is the best type of organ meat to ad to meat.

Messages in this topic (6)
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3b. Re: raw meat only
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:44 am ((PDT))

>>>Andrea what is the best type of organ meat to ad to meat.
Thank you
Francine<<<

You can feed all organs but liver is the one that is most essential!
Brandi
Bartlesville, OK

Messages in this topic (6)
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3c. Re: raw meat only
Posted by: "one_sojourner_one" onesojourner@gmail.com one_sojourner_one
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:39 am ((PDT))

Its true that wolves do not go around eating veggies. From what I have
found there is no scientific proof whether it benefits the dog to have
them, at least that I have found. A dog will be fine without them but
its up in the air whether they may do better with them. Figuring that
one out would require 20 years of study most likely.

peter

Messages in this topic (6)
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4a. new to feeding raw
Posted by: "maxieii" maxieii@yahoo.com maxieii
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:37 am ((PDT))

*** Mod Note: please sign your posts! ***

quick question..i fed pork liver, to my dog (1st time) she doesn't really care for it but ate it
because it was the only thing i gave her (rmb followed) well 30 minutes have passed and
she has thrown up bit's and pieces of it with lots of what looks like saliva...why? is this not
good for her?

Messages in this topic (5)
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4b. Re: new to feeding raw
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:38 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "maxieii" <maxieii@...> wrote:
>
> Hi i just started a few weeks ago and am concerned about which
kinds of cuts of meats to
> give my dog...also she is picky with the raw food i give her for
example i bought tongue
> (pork) and she didn't eat it she at the rmb's also not crazy about
kidneys or liver so I give
> it to her before i give the rmb. what do you do when an animal is
picky leave the food or
> take it away and offer it to them the next day? Am concerned with
her diet being
> balanced. thanks
>

******You should count your lucky stars at this point that she did
refuse what you offered. Tongue, liver, and kidney are a great way
to end up with loose stools and blowouts in the house when just
starting. Please read the archives and you will see that most
suggest not feeding organs until AT LEAST a few weeks into feeding
raw. Something like a chicken leg quarter or thigh depending on the
size of your dog would be a much better starting place for the next
week before trying anything else. By the way, liver may never be a
favorite....plenty of us here have dogs that don't love it. When
mine refuses to eat it I put it away and bring it back out the next
day. As for balance of diet - that comes over time, not one day.

Marguerita

Messages in this topic (5)
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4c. Re: new to feeding raw
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:42 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "maxieii" <maxieii@...> wrote:
>
> Hi i just started a few weeks ago and am concerned about which
> kinds of cuts of meats to
> give my dog...also she is picky with the raw food i give her
> for example i bought tongue
> (pork) and she didn't eat it

You can feed any cuts of meat. I generally don't make a habit of
feeding weird stuff like tongue or hooves or tails although I do
once in a while. I usually feed chicken parts, turkey parts, pork
roasts, beef roasts and venison when I can get it. Goat, lamb, and
rabbit are also good. My dogs do catch a lot of wildlife like
rabbits and squirrels for snacks.

> she at the rmb's also not crazy about kidneys or liver so I give
> it to her before i give the rmb.

I usually mix kidney or liver in a mixture of organ, canned salmon
or mackerel, raw eggs and some beef heart. They don't even pay
attention to the organs like that.

> what do you do when an animal
> is picky leave the food or
> take it away and offer it to them the next day?

I don't allow my dogs to be picky. If they don't eat a meal today,
they will get the same meal tomorrow.

> Am concerned with her diet being
> balanced.

Don't be. Feed meat, bones, and organs from a variety of animals.
Feed a variety of animal parst from a variety of animals. Feed
mostly meat, some bone and some organs. Follow thoes rules and you
will be ok.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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5a. Re: Is my dog starving?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:38 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "qsgirl916" <qsgirl916@...> wrote:
>
> Greyhound mix is still snubbing her food at every meal.
> I put it down, wait 20-30 minutes and put it away again.
>
> She isn't whining or behaving in any way to indicate that she's
> starving, but like most (I hope most anyway)doggie moms,
> I'm feeling
> terrible.

What she is doing is working(stressing you so that you will give
in). Buck up and get tough. She won't starve as long as food is
available. Don't give in. Don't change what you are offering. Put
it down and walk away and continue what you are doing.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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6a. Re: New to the group/questions
Posted by: "Stephanie McGuirk" humming@comcast.net sthumming
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:41 am ((PDT))

The reason I, also new, am a wreck whether I want to be or not, is
that if you feed kibble, that's that. Nothing more to think about. It
wrecks me a little to have to think all the time about what kind of
food someone needs, and the puppy isn't the only one. I have to think
about lots of people's nutritional needs and grocery lists and cost-
conservation and health day and night. So the puppy -- who needs a
lot more help since she can't tear meat 100% independently yet -- is
a new and needy eater for me to think about.

I say this in sympathy with the person who asked the question. Yes,
I'm a wreck starting out. Embrace your wreckness, let it be.

Stephanie of the Australian shepherd puppy

Messages in this topic (19)
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6b. Re: New to the group/questions
Posted by: "girlndocs" girlndocs@hotmail.com girlndocs
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:42 am ((PDT))

I'm over here with Laura and Chris :) I grew up with kibblefed family
dogs, but by the time we brought Zoe home I'd researched, hung out on
this list reading, and was excited to introduce her to real food.

The first time we heard a bone crunch around here there was a chorus
of enthusiastic "Yes!" and "Atta girl!" from the humans in the house.

Kristin

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Laura Atkinson" <llatkinson@...>
wrote:

> I'll have to stand next to Chris :-)

> > On 9/26/07, costrowski75 <Chriso75@...> wrote:
> >I thought the sound of crunching bones was utterly amazing.

Messages in this topic (19)
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7a. Re: Dog with Eating Disorder
Posted by: "annemariekruit" annemariekruit@yahoo.ca annemariekruit
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:42 am ((PDT))

I agree with you. I've been feeding Shadow twice a day to help with
her 'I'm starving' issues but I think she blocks off her airway with
the tender meat. Manageable chunks seem to work for now.

Shadow chews fish, chicken and turkey and has had no problems with
it, but I think the beef is just too tasty. That was a young cow and
the meat looks fantastic. I bought 460 pounds of it. For freezing
sake we cut hunks that would fit in the large size freezer bags. We
tried to keep bone in every portion, but that wasn't always
possible. Although I've been able to share with friends who feed
raw, I want to make sure that I get through it. I do alternate
between protein sources but the principal one at the moment is beef.
Thanks for the help. A.M.K.

> >
> Idiopathic seizures could, I suppose, be brought on by anxiety about
> eating, or by temporary partial or total suffocation caused by food
> blocking the airway.
> TC
> Giselle
> with Bea in New Jersey
>
>
> >

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8a. Egg
Posted by: "Francine-Texas" francie43@sbcglobal.net fcampinose
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:43 am ((PDT))

Do you also use egg with meat? If so how much? Also dose anyone use Emu
meat? Sorry for all the questions trying to learn.

Francine
francie43@sbglobal.net

Messages in this topic (2)
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8b. Re: Egg
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:38 am ((PDT))

"Francine-Texas" <francie43@...> wrote:
>
> Do you also use egg with meat?
*****
I mix everything with everything, including meat with egg, but I
didn't just jump into it. I recommend you file that thought for
later, for use after you've discovered what works for your dog. You
got lots of time.

If so how much?
*****
You feed egg to bowel tolerance, just as you feed other new foods to
bowel tolerance. How much is completely determined by the food and
the dog.

Also dose anyone use Emu
> meat?
*****
My dogs and cat adore emu meat and they've never had any problems
digesting it. It, with venison, are the two meats I've been able to
feed lots of right from the start. I'm not recommending you should
do that however.

You know, you will find answers to all the questions you've asked so
far (not that anyone minds you asking) by browsing the list message
archives. You simply type in a useful search word and hit enter. If
you don't know how to access the website, please ask! Thanks.
Chris o

Messages in this topic (2)
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9a. Re: Getting the cat on board
Posted by: "bonniepunch" bonniepunch@gmail.com bonniepunch
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:44 am ((PDT))

> I plan to start Oskar on the chicken too but I'm wondering what about
> the rest of the stuff? Should he get a full egg or should I only give
> him half of one when we start to introduce it? What about cuts and
> amounts? He's an over weight cat at about 13 lbs. How should I manage
> his weight loss with the raw diet?

If he can't handle the larger bones in chicken, you might try quail
(my 13 pound cat isn't fat, and can eat a half a quail a day, my
smaller 6 pound cat can eat a quarter of a quail and something else
like a couple of chicken hearts). Both my cats love it and it's easy
to crunch up the bones and still gives the jaw and teeth a work-out.
Be careful with a full egg at first - my cats can only tolerate a
quarter of an egg yolk at a time and they've been eating raw for
almost a year. Any more than that and I have diarrhea to clean up. I
freeze the yolk and then cut the frozen yolk into quarters, then allow
the quarters to thaw before I feed them (I line an ice cube tray with
plastic wrap and put the yolks from a dozen eggs in the holes, they
are very easy to deal with that way). I do not feed the white because
that also causes problems for me, but it may be fine for you.

BP

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9b. Re: Getting the cat on board
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:23 am ((PDT))

"Francine-Texas" <francie43@...> wrote:
>
> OK I missed something we also feed eggs to dog? If how much?
*****
Eggs are high quality food that you can feed or not as you choose. I
mostly don't because I forget to. If you want to feed eggs, I suggest
you wait til you and your dogs are over the initial shock and awe of
raw feeding, however long that takes. And then--when you do feed that
first egg--you can put into whole into a bowl (sounds a bit like Dr.
Seuss) and let the dog figure it out, or you can break the egg into the
bowl. As with all new foods, introduce eggs slowly to minimize the
chance of loose stools. Some veteran egg-eaters can handle four or
five eggs at a time without digestive upset! But they didn't get there
overnight.

Also, Francine, please do two things when you are posting. One, change
the subject line to reflect your change of topic, and two, delete
everything from the original post that doesn't relate to your new
post. You will get better responses when you keep your messages
uncomplicated.
Thanks!
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
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9c. Re: Getting the cat on board
Posted by: "Anita Wright" craftyhoosiermama@gmail.com anita42776
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:40 am ((PDT))

Ok great. I'm feeling so much better about doing this knowing that both of
my pets have crossed the biggest hurdle and dove in to their new diet head
first:)
Another question I have is, we have 2 trips coming up soon.
For the 1st trip my parents will be coming to watch the kids. I'm sure they
won't be thrilled with feeding raw but if I dumby proof it for them they'll
do it. So any suggestions since both pets are so new to raw and the sitters
will be new to it too. Right now the dog gets fed either outside or in her
crate and I just keep a big container of chicken backs in the fridge. I'll
probaby create a second container for the cat with more kitty friendly
pieces but he has always had his food in the laundry room in the basement.
Since it's all now in the fridge and I need to keep an eye on his eating I
thought I would just keep a dish in the kitchen for him. The room is gated
off to keep the kids out and if he's fed at the same time as the dog then
she won't have a chance to steal Oskar's food when we blink;)
Any other suggestions or ideas?
TIA
--
~Anita

Keep up with us at http://craftywrights.blogspot.com/

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10a. Re: Link between high protein diets and "hyper" behavior?
Posted by: "swilken61" powrfemme@aol.com swilken61
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:44 am ((PDT))

In Behavior Problems in Dogs, by William E. Campbell, the author
suggests that there is evidence, I can't remember if it was ancecdotal
or not, that implies (you know how these science guys talk) that high
protein diets can calm a hyper dog down, not rev him up. He does make
the charbohydrate connection. I may be misremebering, but I think he
also mentioned the adverse effects of some of dyes and preservatives in
dog food, although he didn't address the raw food issue specifically.
He has a more recent book out that I have yet to purchase.

I was interested at the time because my newly adopted terrier mix
seemed extremely hyper, even more so than a 9 month terrier should be.
I later found she had a bladder infection, she's two more since, in the
space of a year and a half. This and my pancreatic dog was what brought
me to raw feeding as I was researching either cooking for them or
giving them raw food.

Once we switched to raw, not only has she not had a bladder infection
(three month and counting, a little soon to be sure but I am hopeful)
but she has calmed down considerably. I know some of it is her health,
her maturing, and her being settled in the home, but I also think there
is a connection to the food. She has plenty of energy, but most of time
seems to be able to control herself. Also, my dog with pancrreatis has
gained weight and is feeling much better.

Yes, this is all anecdotal, but I'm convinced.

Stephany

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10b. Re: Link between high protein diets and "hyper" behavior?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:39 am ((PDT))

Hi. I was reading one book this morning and read about interesting stuff on food for dogs.

So,I thought I would share with you.

Now,the chapter that I was reading was about comparison between kibble and raw meat.

==============
The carb in kibble is 50 to 90% mostly from grain. Grains are used because it is cheap calories and necessary to hold dry food together.Example,lamb and rice kibble are generally 26% protin,63 % grain.

The saliva in human contain enzyme which starts digestion when food is chewed.

But the dog saliva does not have it,and consequenly,digestion of starch starch takes place only in small intestine.

Diets that are rich in carb (kibble) also favor the development of certain tapeworms etc while high protin diet will work against the growth of such parasite.

Also,high moisture diet(raw) may reducetherisk of calcium oxalate stone disease.

When dog eats cooked food,dog's pancreas,stomach,small intestine must make all enzyme necessary for digestion but enzyme in raw meat help with digestion andreducing the load on dog'sdigestive organs.
==================
So,now I see why cooking is not good for dog's health,and why raw is better than kibble more ..

Like others said in here,active dogs that does not get much excersise or interaction with human or other dogs,could also triggered constant barking in class and may not be food related,or maybe it is?

Either way, I feel my dog looks more satisfied with food and my husband agree that palette is doing better with raw feeding.we know that raw meats are good for health,and maybe key to live longer .But, I do not know why I did not notice this way of feeding before..much earlier..

Certainly, there is no regret and glad that I had made the choice to feed raw,but really,many people should notice what they are feeding really to dogs and cats.

yassy

---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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10c. Re: Link between high protein diets and "hyper" behavior?
Posted by: "annemariekruit" annemariekruit@yahoo.ca annemariekruit
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:39 am ((PDT))

You guys have perfect timing. I was just wondering the same thing
and you've answered my question about raw diet/protein and dog
behaviour. My dog (sheltie) is very energetic (no surprise) and I
was wondering if her raw diet was amplifying that energy. Now I know
it's simply keeping her healthy and normal. And keeps me outside
playing with her. That's a good thing. A.M.K.

"Laura Atkinson" <llatkinson@...> wrote:
>
>>
> And a raw diet is NOT 100% protein. A chicken breast is, what, 18%
> protein? There's some fat in it, that's not protein, some bone with
> vitamins and minerals, that's not protein. Don't fall for the 100%
> protein myth.
>
> On 9/26/07, dogladyme <ooblab@...> wrote:
>
> > >
> > Can anyone comment on this idea that high protein diets may make
some
> > dogs "hyper"?
> >
> > Thanks! Mary
>
>
>

Messages in this topic (14)
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11. Confused about beef bones
Posted by: "cleone4100" cleone4100@aol.com cleone4100
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:39 am ((PDT))

Hi there,

Is it only the beef leg bones that are a problem? I just bought a big
rack of beef ribs. Those are okay right? My dogs have been getting cut-
up raw beef leg bones, strictly for entertainment, for the past 3
months. After they have chewed off all the meaty scrapes and
cartiledge, they lose interest in them and I throw the bones away.
Well, other than to parade around with it in front of each other to
torment each other! Is it okay to give them these leg bone pieces, or
can their teeth be damaged just by chewing to get the scraps off?

Thanks, Carey, Biscuit & Gravy

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12. Nutrtion seminar in Lexington Ky
Posted by: "Felicia Kost" saphiradane@yahoo.com saphiradane
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:40 am ((PDT))

Hello everyone, I have a bit of info I though I would share. Dr. Goldstein (from Newyork I belive) is doing a seminar on dog nutrtion, raw feeding and vaccines. It will be held at the Kentucky Horse Park in Lexington Kentucky. Aside from sharing the info, I was wondering if anyone has been to his seminars and what they thought? Thanks Felicia

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13. Serving Size
Posted by: "sarajane" leopardjunkie@yahoo.com leopardjunkie
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:40 am ((PDT))

MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!!

Bear with me...I am not good with math or calculating portions.

We have an american bulldog that has been on raw due to demodex and is
looking so fantastic no chemicals. We feed ground as she does not do
well with whole or chunks.

She weighs about 65 pounds and is skinnier than I would like she could
gain a few pounds, if you go by ribs she is just about perfect but I
can see more hip bone and spine than I would like...who in long and
lean.

We also just got a male that is 66 pounds and switching from yucky
beneful to raw..Now he is short and stalky he could loose a few pounds
but not much.

They are both 14 months old and get fed once a day with supplements. I
do ground turkey, chicken and rarely pork with ground organ. I also
supplement and feed mackeral and occasional pumpkin as well.

I am feeding them once daily about 5 cups ground if I rember right,
they each get 1 tupperware container that would fit two sandwhiches on
top of each other full of meat each day!

Can someone tell me how much I should feed? If you have ground and can
tell me cups that would be prefered other wise thawed weight would be
ok too!

I am just so bad at math, but want to make sure I am feeding them the
right amount to get them both at the right weight!

Thanks in advance!

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14a. Re: puking pets
Posted by: "Pet Owner" rawnewfie@yahoo.com rawnewfie
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:40 am ((PDT))

mostly I think it was bone bile vomit. my wife was home and tried to describe it, she saved a bone about 1.5 inch to show me. I think she through up three times after some beef bones and pig necks. her poop looks like a snakes poop, dry with a white bone finish. I am so happy I have found people who enjoy talking about guts, puke and dog poop as much as me:)
Todd

Giselle <megan.giselle@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, Todd!
Yes, dogs don't see vomit as the worrisome, upsetting
biological embarrassment that we humans do.

They're not uptight about poops or pee, either. ; )

I have never known, first person, of anyone's dog having a medical
emergency due to bone shards in the digestive system. Occasionally, I
have read about someone on the list who has swept out or pushed down a
hasty, too big mouthful. Once or twice I have read of someone having
to remove a wedged piece of bone from a dog's mouth.

But, thats why we recommend supervised meals and feeding portions
bigger than the dog's head. : )

I have never had any of these problems with any of my own dogs. Just
lucky, I guess.

What kind of vomiting is your dog doing?
When does she vomit?
What does it look like?
What exactly had she eaten when she horked?
Inquiring minds want to know. ; )

There's a big difference between regurgitation, bile vomit (BV), bone
bile vomit (BBV) and vomit from an illness or digestive problem.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Maybe some of the longer term members will know. Has any one ever
posted some serious
> disaster as a result of raw feeding on this group? Any dogs choked
to death or been
> eviscerated by shards of bone. I have been feeding raw for about a
week. It is total trial and
> error, she won't eat chicken, is tentative about turkey necks, loves
beef and pork. My old
> retriever is starting to throw up, but poops have been firm. This is
really hardest on her
> worried parents I think.
> Thanks,
> Todd
>

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