[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12084

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: 4 dogs starting
From: Shannon Hully

2a. Re: Nutrtion seminar in Lexington Ky
From: costrowski75
2b. Re: Nutrtion seminar in Lexington Ky
From: Felicia Kost

3a. Re: Serving Size
From: Yasuko herron
3b. Re: Serving Size
From: Andrea
3c. Re: Serving Size
From: girlndocs

4a. RAW vs k***le, cost & supplements/medicines
From: T Smith
4b. Re: RAW vs k***le, cost & supplements/medicines
From: Olga

5a. Raw with Puppy.
From: borderlicious
5b. Re: Raw with Puppy.
From: costrowski75
5c. Re: Raw with Puppy.
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

6a. Re: puking pets
From: Olga

7a. Re: Dog with Eating Disorder
From: Olga

8a. Re: New to the group/questions
From: Michael Moore
8b. Re: New to the group/questions
From: Pamela Picard

9a. bones in poo!
From: patti.h310
9b. Re: bones in poo!
From: Andrea

10.1. Venison
From: mariola9000
10.2. Re: Venison
From: carnesbill

11a. Re: Confused about beef bones
From: Misty Sargent

12a. Re: Is my dog starving?
From: eyed_blue

13a. Re: Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
From: heathermcpher822
13b. Re: Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
From: Laura Atkinson
13c. Re: Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
From: heathermcpher822

14. When starting out...how much is too much?
From: Mark Lester

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: 4 dogs starting
Posted by: "Shannon Hully" summerwolf@theherbalhotline.com bluehankw
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:58 am ((PDT))

Trina,

I don't have quite the same amount to clean up, having only a Greyhound
and two cats, but what we've done (well, what *I've* done, hehe) is
train my Grey to eat on a towel in the kitchen and my cats to eat on
their portion of the kitchen floor (I had to start them in the bathroom
because they used to play with their little furry bodies before eating
them. You wouldn't believe how high a cat can throw a mouse... LOL)

At any rate, I only have the kitchen floor in a few spots to clean up!
It only took my Grey two meals to get it, and I've only had him a week
and a half! (he's an off-the-track rescue). I don't know how big your
kitchen is ;-) but that would work for some. Some could eat in the
garage, and you could feed some at a time. My aunt used to have 13 dogs
at one point (she bred Shih-Tzu and had some Bouviers) and she fed
cooked homemade. She'd have some in one room, some in another, some in
the kitchen... Sorry I'm not more help with that.

Good luck! :-)
Shannon H.

>
> I'm having the same problems but i never free fed the dogs i have now!
> Unfortunately, they are dragging the chicken around & I have a 2 year
old
> son. I can't mop every single day my whole house...... I need to be
> realistic here.
> Trina

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Nutrtion seminar in Lexington Ky
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:10 am ((PDT))

Felicia Kost <saphiradane@...> wrote:
> Dr. Goldstein (from Newyork I belive) is doing a seminar on dog
nutrtion, raw feeding and vaccines.
*****
Perhaps you should Google him and see if what he says is what you want
to pay to hear.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: Nutrtion seminar in Lexington Ky
Posted by: "Felicia Kost" saphiradane@yahoo.com saphiradane
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:47 pm ((PDT))

Yes, that is a great idea. My computer skill are lacking to say the least. The advice on this list is free so maybe I don't want to pay for his. It sounded good though. So far he seems to promote raw feeding first. He seems to reccommend small amounts of fresh vegtables though. I like his idea if treating the whole animal nutrionally. Thanks Felicia

*****
Perhaps you should Google him and see if what he says is what you want
to pay to hear.
Chris O

---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: Serving Size
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:30 am ((PDT))

>She weighs about 65 pounds and is skinnier than I would like she could
>gain a few pounds,

hi,here is amount to start (guideline),since you write you want ideal weight 68lb or so...

If 2% feed,68x16x0.02=21.76oz (1.36lb)
If 3% feed,68x16x0.03=32.64oz(2.04lb)

>We also just got a male that is 66 pounds and switching from yucky
>beneful to raw..Now he is short and stalky he could loose a few pounds
>but not much.

Now,he is.. since you like to loose couple of lb,so... say 63lb ideal weight.

If 2% feed,63x16x0.02=20.16oz(1.26lb)
If 3% feed,63x16x0.03=30.24oz(1.89lb)

>They are both 14 months old and get fed once a day with supplements.

You mean,Fish body oil??

> I do ground turkey, chicken and rarely pork with ground organ.

so,you get pre-made or you grind meat yourself?

If pre-made,I feel that you really have no control over bone amount,organ amount and I rather prefer feeding chunks.Your dog have teeth/jaw prob?If you grind meat yourself,you still have control over how much bone,how much organ to go into dog's but you arestealing fun to work on meat from dog,and no mental excersise is provided. why do you think your dog does not eat chunk of meat?

> I also supplement and feed mackeral and occasional pumpkin as well.

Why pumpkin?? I know home-cooking diet people give pumpkin forfiber and to firm up poo but in raw feeding,bone does the same thing;firming up the stool,anddog cannot digest veggie enough to utelize nutrient from it and why do you feed?

yassy

---------------------------------
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: Serving Size
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:30 am ((PDT))

Why do you think your girl doesn't do well with whole foods? Feeding
ground food really limits the variety you can find and it does
nothing good for your dog's dental health. If your girl tries to
swallow her food whole I think you should try giving her really big
pieces. So big that she physically cannot swallow it without ripping
and tearing into it. To start with I would say feed around 1.5lbs to
each dog and reduce or increase the amount as necessary. There's no
need to try and get it perfect at first because all dogs are
different. If you feel your girl is too skinny, increase the amount
of food. Easy peasy.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "sarajane" <leopardjunkie@...>
wrote:

> We have an american bulldog that has been on raw due to demodex and
> is looking so fantastic no chemicals. We feed ground as she does
> not do well with whole or chunks.
>
> She weighs about 65 pounds and is skinnier than I would like she
> could gain a few pounds

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

3c. Re: Serving Size
Posted by: "girlndocs" girlndocs@hotmail.com girlndocs
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:53 pm ((PDT))

Hi Sarajane,

It's not really very complicated, don't let the math part scare you off :)

You probably already know that you aim for 2-3% of ideal adult body
weight. The way I do it is I go like this:

ONE percent of 65 is .65

.65 multiplied by two is 1.3, which is between 1 and 1 1/2 lbs

.65 multiplied by three is 1.95, a bit over one and three-quarters

So, for a 65-lb dog, I would start out with something in the middle of
those weights -- probably 1 1/2 lbs/day -- and tweak it a little
higher or a little lower depending on whether I liked the shape my dog
was in after a few weeks or so.

Another way to do it would be to calculate 10% of ideal adult weight
(10% is always easy) and give slightly less than a third of the figure
you arrive at. Whichever.

Mind if I ask what kind of problems your American Bull has with whole
meaty chunks? The #1 thing I love about a prey-model diet is that it
provides such wonderful dental benefits, which you don't get with ground.

Kristin

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. RAW vs k***le, cost & supplements/medicines
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:42 am ((PDT))

Approximately 4.5 cups of k***le = 1 pound of RAW chicken.
Casper eats (he was dropping down), let's say, 10 cups a day to make is
easy... so we have 2.5 pounds of k***le per day.....
One chicken leg & thigh = 1 pound so if Casper eats one of these twice a
day, he is close to the amount of k***le he was eating, less 8 ounces!
His weight estimated would be about 200. Right now he is over 130 (7 month
old) so ideal weight would be 4 - 6 pounds RAW per day. I am going to go
more to the 4 lbs because he is neutered and MELLOW! So his metabolism
isn't fast.
K***le for him was special diet so it was about .90cents/lb. The others ate
a food that came out to about .50/lb.
I am trying to find a way to make RAW as cost effective as the k***le was
:-) because i am feeding 9 dogs. Mind you we add canned in & one of my old
dogs eats canned ONLY & RAW will certainly be much cheaper for her in the
long run so it should balance out?
My old Dal gets a powdered medicine... I wonder should I roll his chicken in
it like a coating? His other supplements we are still giving in a ball of
canned. These are necessary for his health as well as the others taking
specific supplements & medications.
I didn't do well in math so if I made a mistake, help me out!!
I hope I am getting this right. I just offered a friend our extra bag of
food for the cost we paid if she wanted it. I still have the 5 others on
k***le until I get the first 4 switched & we all get the hang of things. I
don't plan to go back!
Trina
--
Chip (deaf Dalmatian)
Casper (deaf Great Dane)
Whisper (deaf Great Dane)
Louie (hearing Great Dane)
Joey (deaf & blind Lhasa Apso)
Amy (disabled Lhasa Apso)
Cassandra (disabled Lhasa Apso)
Mr Paris (Lhasa Apso)
Chloe (deaf & blind Spaniel mix)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: RAW vs k***le, cost & supplements/medicines
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:56 am ((PDT))

Ok, I'm a math person, but this totally confused me. I think you're
making it more complicated than it needs to be.

To start, commercial foods usually have a guideline based on the dog's
weight - was he at the top or bottom of that range? That will tell
you if you should err on the low or high side of feeding him. To
figure out your feeding costs, weigh how much food you give him per
day (i.e. the kibble), then divide the bag amount by that. For
example, if the bag is 30 lbs and you feed him 2 lb of kibble per day,
at $30/bag, you're spending $2/day. Makes sense?

Then onto raw - I would start at 2% of his weight per day (divided
into as many meals as required). For example, a 100 lb dog would get
2 lbs per day at 2%. Keep in mind that toy breed dogs sometimes need
up to 4% and giant breed dogs sometimes need under 2%, just because
it's not a linear scale. So assuming 2% of his weight, you know how
many pounds he needs per day. Then multiply that by price per pound
to get your daily feeding costs. Hope I didn't confuse you too much
there!

The supplements and stuff you can mix with a little bit of ground
meat, or hide it in a chicken/turkey heart or something like that.
Usually you need no supplements (except for maybe fish oil) once you
switch to raw, except for stuff that you give for a medical reason.
Also, I found that feeding raw drastically reduced our vet costs,
which some people don't count because it's not a "fixed" expense. But
so far we have skipped 3 dentals, which would cost $300-400 each.

Olga

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Raw with Puppy.
Posted by: "borderlicious" borderlicious@yahoo.com borderlicious
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:44 am ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

I'm new here, I'll be getting a puppy and need some help!

Your suppost to be 2-3% of there body weight, well how do you do that
with a growing puppy?

Do they need different things from adult dogs? Protien, carbs, ect?

Can they eat the same bones, ect with puppy teeth?

Also, those of you who who have had puppies and fed raw from the
beginning, could you tell me what all you fed and when(almost
something like a menu?)

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: Raw with Puppy.
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:35 pm ((PDT))

"borderlicious" <borderlicious@...> wrote:
> Your suppost to be 2-3% of there body weight, well how do you do that
> with a growing puppy?
*****
The recommendation is to feed 2-3% of the ideal adult weight.
Alternatively, until the dog is 16 weeks or so, you can also feed 10%
of the pup's current weight. When that exceeds the "2% of adult"
formula, you switch to the "2% of adult" formula. IMO, this is
unnecessarily complicated.

I suggest you feed 2-3% of ideal adult weight OR you don't use a scale
at all and simply feed amounts that keep the pupster looking and acting
happy and healthy. Whichever method you use though, plan on adjusting
as necessary forever.

> Do they need different things from adult dogs? Protien, carbs, ect?
*****
Not if you are feeding a menu reasonably based on what prey animals
deliver. You will probably have to feed smaller amounts in more meals;
you will probably have to make the body parts smaller and more
approachable. But overall, the fine tuning changes, not the
ingredients.

> Can they eat the same bones, ect with puppy teeth?
*****
Most people start with easy food like rib-in chicken breast or chicken
backs (maybe wings or even necks if the pup is quite small). I've had
great luck with dressed quail and cornish game hens. Given the
opportunity, most pups will step right up to the challenge. You just
have to play T-ball instead of major league baseball. Meat and organs
ought not present a problem unless they are overfew.

> > Also, those of you who who have had puppies and fed raw from the
> beginning, could you tell me what all you fed and when(almost
> something like a menu?)
*****
I started my BC (the most recent pup) on about a pound a day, divvied
into three meals. I fed whole quail (butterflied to make them more
complicated), game hen parts and chicken backs as meaty bones; and
lamb, venison, emu, beef, turkey, goat and pork meat (virtually
everything I had available) for meatymeat meals. Sometimes she got
meaty bones, sometimes she got meat. When I had them, I would give her
whole lamb shanks and trimmed out pork shoulder blade bones for the fun
and the workout. Wrestling with these meaty bones made teething a non-
issue. I also started adding bits of heart, liver, kidney, spleen and
green tripe after a week. With three squares a day, it's pretty easy
to rotate new food into the menu (three meals a day is 21 meals a
week!).

At four months I moved her to two meals; at 10 months I moved her to
one meal and reduced her intake to 3/4lb, more or less.

If you prefer to take it more slowly (as much for your sake as your
pup's) I suggest chicken with bone and chicken without bone til you get
settled. A very nice thing about switching pupsters to raw is their
lack of experience. Most of them are quite willing to sample variety.
Use this openness to introduce as many taste and texture sensations as
you can. Do not be afraid to offer oversized meaty bones. Let the kid
get whatever nutrition and joy it can from the event, then collect up
the remains.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

5c. Re: Raw with Puppy.
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:50 pm ((PDT))

Dear Borderlicious,
Puppy, what kind.
I had danes, so they ate what I thought they should weigh, for #120, about. But they would get two to three meals a day, since they are giant breed dogs, and they stopped when they were full.
I fed chicken to start, the whole thing. In halfs. And they did fine. They got the organs from the chicken at the end of the week, so they had the meat, the bones, and the organs, all in one, and you do that for several weeks until you are good at it, and have done your research, and your reading, then you try adding in other meats/protiens. Here we do the prey model way, no need for other sources like carbs and such, they get what they need from the whole prey model, Like the whole chicken.
Feed when you want to on your schedule, so they are doing what you want, not what they want, you are in charge, not the dog.
Depending on the type or breed of dog, is how often and how much you would feed, so that we would need to know.
Puppy teeth do very well with bones, even better than adults, they are so sharp:) so no worries there.
Read the list notes, you were sent and recommended reading. It will help.
I recommend "work wonders" by Tom Lonsdale, it's fast and easy to read and to the point. You can get it online at www.rawmeatybones.com
and it's funny too.
Goodluck. And don't forget to sign your name next time.:)
Jeni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: puking pets
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:57 am ((PDT))

Sounds like what she ate was really heavy in bone. Hence the dry and
white poop, and vomiting of excess bone. I would suggest adding extra
meat to meals like this.

Olga

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: Dog with Eating Disorder
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:08 pm ((PDT))

My mixed breed will also swallow, or try to swallow, boneless pieces
of meat. Usually she's fine with this, but if it's frozen it doesn't
seem to go down very easily, and she'll stumble around with her eyes
kinda bulging out trying to decide if she should bring it up, or keep
it down. I'm not sure if this is the behaviour you are describing as
"seizures"?

Basically what I do, is try to give her most of her food bone-in, and
when I'm giving boneless meat I cut it into pieces that she can
swallow. I don't give her frozen boneless meat anymore.

Olga

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: New to the group/questions
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:48 pm ((PDT))

>>Question: Can I please get some detailed information on how most of you wean your puppies and exactly how and with what food and when? What kind of feeding instructions do you give your puppy people? <<

Lorraine -- I started rawfeeding my Corgi puppies at around 4.5-5 wks., with bone-in chicken breasts, and cut "ribbons" into the chicken so they could grab on. They just licked at it for a few days, but within a week were cleaning the meat off the bones. Within another week, they were also eating the bones in their entirety. Within a couple of weeks, I had introduced boneless venison, pork, beef heart, fish, rabbit, and elk. They handled it all well.
I provide a great deal of information to my puppy buyers, and include 10 pages of info on rawfeeding, including how much, how often, benefits, etc., etc.

>>For those of you who have been feeding strictly prey raw feeding for many years now......... .....have you had any puppies/dogs that choked from the whole raw food or, surgery from bowel impacts, etc? <<

If six years qualifies as "many years," then I'm there. I have never had any dog (I have averaged feeding 7-10 dogs daily for those 6 yrs.) choke on whole raw food. I have had dogs "try" to eat pieces too large, vomit them back up and eat them more sensibly. My puppies have done this -- and continue to eat on this learning curve. Twice my GSD rescue did have severe constipation from pork necks and we administered enemas; this was *my* error -- way too much bone for her, and I finally learned on the second episode. She did not require surgery.

>>Did you have any problems with the pups growing confirmation wise (too fast, too slow, low pasterns, splayed feet) And finally what were your average results with OFA?<<

My first weaned-to-raw litter is just 5 mos. old, so this is not "complete" -- my puppies *were* smaller than typical Corgi pups at 9 wks., but as they have grown, they have caught up, size-wise. Interestingly enough, a puppy from the litter was switched to ki**le when he left here, and he is leggier, more "tubular" looking than the two littermates I kept. My two girls have wonderful proportions, more substance and more ligamentation and better muscling than their brother. Fascinating in my mind. (And FYI, because I'm a grammar person, it's conformation with an "o" -- spelled with an "i" it's a Catholic sacrament! Sorry -- can't resist, it's a bone of contention with me!)
Hope this is the kind of information you were interested in.

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (21)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: New to the group/questions
Posted by: "Pamela Picard" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:58 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Stephanie McGuirk <humming@...> wrote:
>
t 100% independently yet -- is
> a new and needy eater for me to think about.
>
> I say this in sympathy with the person who asked the question. Yes,
> I'm a wreck starting out. Embrace your wreckness, let it be.
>
> Stephanie of the Australian shepherd puppy
>
***

Mi too. It's just new. Once we've been doing it a while, it gets
easier. it helps too if your dog eats the same as your family. Like I
eat chicken, fish, turkey, beef and a little pork. So I buy more of
what he can eat when I shop for myself. Plus he gets rabbit, which I
have eaten in the past (but can't bring myself to eat now.) My partner
is vegan. Oh well. Nothing's perfect.

Pamela Picard
http://www.pet-wellness-update.com
http://aimees-law.blogspot.com/
aimees_law-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

***Sign the petition***
Exempt Sick & Senior Pets from Rabies Shots
http://www.petitiononline.com/tdsh2007/petition.html

Messages in this topic (21)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. bones in poo!
Posted by: "patti.h310" patti.h310@yahoo.com patti.h310
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:49 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: SIGN YOUR MESSAGES PLEASE.***

I'm new to raw feeding and my 50lb. Beardie loves me for it. However,
he's very particular! Chicken wings and leg quarters are ok, but he
won't touch necks. Beef Ribs give him loose stooles. Won't touch
turkey necks or any kind of liver. Will not even consider lamb. He
loves pork neck bones but sometimes I find large, quarter sized pieces
of hard bone in his poo. (I poked it with a stick!) Should I stop
giving him the pork neck bones?

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

9b. Re: bones in poo!
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:12 pm ((PDT))

What you describe is mostly boney and not so much meaty. I suggest
adding more meat to the diet. I also suggest taking a stronger stance
with your boy when it comes to feeding time. If you let him decide
what he will and will not eat now you are setting yourself up for hard
times in the future. Variety is key in a raw diet and allowing your
dog to decide he only wants chicken wings and pork necks doesn't give
you variety. You put down dinner, dog eats it or does not. After 20
minutes or so, food goes back in the fridge for next mealtime. Process
is repeated as many times as necessary before dog realizes that he
doesn't get to dictate what he eats.

Do some dogs have least favorite meals? Absolutely. Geiger gives
me "the look" every time he gets duck for dinner. For some reason he
just isn't a big fan, but he eats it or he goes without. Now that I
know he really doesn't like duck, I don't give it to him often. But
the point is that he will eat it and anything else he is given. It's
hard to do tough love but it works out so much better for both of you
in the end, trust me.

The bone in your pup's poo isn't a terrible thing, but obviously not
what you always want to see. I think adding more meat to the meals
will help with the problem. You should shoot for mostly meat, some
bone and some organ. Try giving liver from different animals, freezing
it, or mixing it with egg/green tripe/ground meat.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "patti.h310" <patti.h310@...> wrote:

> I'm new to raw feeding and my 50lb. Beardie loves me for it. However,
> he's very particular! Chicken wings and leg quarters are ok, but he
> won't touch necks. Beef Ribs give him loose stooles. Won't touch
> turkey necks or any kind of liver. Will not even consider lamb. He
> loves pork neck bones but sometimes I find large, quarter sized pieces
> of hard bone in his poo. (I poked it with a stick!) Should I stop
> giving him the pork neck bones?
>

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10.1. Venison
Posted by: "mariola9000" mariola9000@yahoo.com mariola9000
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:49 pm ((PDT))

I might be lucky to have finely found a source of venison for my dog.
At least it seems this way (I'm keeping my fingers crossed).
I talked to a hunter's wife and she promised me some of the meat when
her husband comes back from the hunting trip next week.

My questions:

1. Do I ask for scraps with lots of meat, big pieces or anything they
give me, organs, antlers (someone here once said they are a great
chewing object)?

2. Is there anything I should NOT be taking, considering a novice dog
(she never had venison and and so far had chicken, pork, beef, duck,
turkey and lamb)?

3.Is it wise to stock up on a new protein? How likely is it that my
dog will refuse venison?

4. How much should I expect to be paying for venison? I'm in Northern
California and the man hunts in Oregon.

5. How long do I have to freeze the venison meat for and at what
temperature?I hope an upright freezer is good enough for that purpose.

Mariola and Cookie

Messages in this topic (41)
________________________________________________________________________

10.2. Re: Venison
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:58 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mariola9000" <mariola9000@...>
wrote:
>
> 1. Do I ask for scraps with lots of meat, big pieces or
> anything they
> give me, organs, antlers (someone here once said they are a great
> chewing object)?

Take anything that is offered and experiment with it. My dogs love
the leg bones for chew toys. I've never fed antler because I've
never had any.

> 2. Is there anything I should NOT be taking, considering a
> novice dog
> (she never had venison and and so far had chicken, pork,
> beef, duck,
> turkey and lamb)?

I wouldn't want intestines or bladder but I think those are disposed
of in the field. Anything else incuding head are great.

> 3.Is it wise to stock up on a new protein?

Usually its not wise. In the case of venison, do it.

> How likely is it that my dog will refuse venison?

Very close to zero. I'm sure once I make my next statement someone
will write in and tell me i'm wrong, but I have never known a dog
that didn't LOVE deer meat.

> 4. How much should I expect to be paying for venison? I'm
> in Northern California and the man hunts in Oregon.

I THINK its illegal to sell venison. It's ok to give it away. That
may differ in different states.

> 5. How long do I have to freeze the venison meat for and at what
> temperature?I hope an upright freezer is good enough for
> that purpose.

I wouldn't worry about feeding it immediately. Depending on how
much you get, most of it will be frozen a while anyway. I don't
think I would feed venison exclusively until it's gone. I usually
feed it a couple of times a week when I have it.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (41)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. Re: Confused about beef bones
Posted by: "Misty Sargent" jrtlover27@yahoo.com jrtlover27
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:50 pm ((PDT))

What part of the leg are you giving them? I give my dogs beef knuckly bones (the knee of the cow) just as chew treats and dispose of them once they get the meat off. I have never had a problem with them, and the dogs love it, not to mention they are great for cleaning their teeth, much more than smaller bones.

Misty

cleone4100 <cleone4100@aol.com> wrote:
Hi there,

Is it only the beef leg bones that are a problem? I just bought a big
rack of beef ribs. Those are okay right? My dogs have been getting cut-
up raw beef leg bones, strictly for entertainment, for the past 3
months. After they have chewed off all the meaty scrapes and
cartiledge, they lose interest in them and I throw the bones away.
Well, other than to parade around with it in front of each other to
torment each other! Is it okay to give them these leg bone pieces, or
can their teeth be damaged just by chewing to get the scraps off?

Thanks, Carey, Biscuit & Gravy

---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12a. Re: Is my dog starving?
Posted by: "eyed_blue" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:52 pm ((PDT))

Dont give in to her! I wouldnt wait that long 15 mins is fine, might
even do her good to start with a 'clear system' when she does eat the
raw food.

Natalie

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13a. Re: Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
Posted by: "heathermcpher822" heathermcpher822@yahoo.ca heathermcpher822
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:53 pm ((PDT))

Can anyone tell me then how that translates to actual food?
I am have trouble with the volume.
Right now he gets about 4 very meaty chicken backs, 1 smallish( about
fist size) pork neck or riblet some (1 cup /day veg- not more than
about 1/4 cup) that is blended with liver and /or kidney and/or
giblets and/or whole fish.
He was 8 weeks yesterday and weights about 23lbs.
Mum and Dad are smallish ( 150-165 lbs) but I think he might be headed
for much bigger things ......<grin>

Thanks for your help so far
Heather & family ( Guinness & Hamish included)

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

13b. Re: Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:07 pm ((PDT))

Right off the bat, too much bone, not enough meat. Too much bone may
exacerabate the rapid growth issues that giant breed dogs (who are fed crap
in a bag) seem to be prone to. Challenge yourself to find him meat. Pork
and beef hearts are excellent places to start, as they're a nutrient dense
meat. Every meal, heck every day, does not need to include edible bone..if
it does, you're likely feeding too much bone.

In my world, there's no such thing as a "meaty chicken back." Even if
you're cutting up the chicken yourself, look at the amount of meat on the
back as opposed to a breast or even thigh.

Here's what Robin gets (in general) over the course of the week. She's 7
months now.

Breakfast: pork heart, beef heart, chicken quarter, leftovers from previous
night
Dinner: pork brisket, beef heart, chicken quarter, turkey neck, lamb flank,
fish, tripe, whatever + the organ d'jour (an unmeasured hunk of liver,
kidney or a glop of ground organ blend).

She probably gets edible bone 2-3x a week, not daily, nor have any of my
other puppies, the oldest of which is now <sob> going to be five in
November. He's not lacking in bone or size (see Ryder on my webpage).

I don't measure Robin's breakfast (look, Chris, no scale!) just hand her
whatever's in the "breakfast bag" in the fridge. Heck, I don't usually
measure her dinner either, because she's so active she'll never be fat...and
if she is, I'll just give her smaller meals. Everyone else, I seem to turn
into little balloons when I don't measure, especially the spayed/neutered
(and older) dogs who are less active. She probably gets, based on her pile
compared to some of the measured ones, between a pound and 1 1/2 lbs a day.
She'll probably finish up at about 38 lbs, so I'm feeding her WAY more than
2% of her anticipated adult weight...but whatever she's getting is the
amount that keeps her at a good weight now, while she's growing. Otherwise
I'd always be playing catch up when I wake up one day and realize she's a)
grown in her sleep and b) looking a little thin.

On 9/27/07, heathermcpher822 <heathermcpher822@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Can anyone tell me then how that translates to actual food?
> I am have trouble with the volume.
> Right now he gets about 4 very meaty chicken backs, 1 smallish( about
> fist size) pork neck or riblet some (1 cup /day veg- not more than
> about 1/4 cup) that is blended with liver and /or kidney and/or
> giblets and/or whole fish.
> He was 8 weeks yesterday and weights about 23lbs.
> Mum and Dad are smallish ( 150-165 lbs) but I think he might be headed
> for much bigger things ......<grin>
>
> Thanks for your help so far
> Heather & family ( Guinness & Hamish included)
>

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

13c. Re: Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
Posted by: "heathermcpher822" heathermcpher822@yahoo.ca heathermcpher822
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:25 pm ((PDT))

Thanks Robin,
I appreciate the help.
So that's what we will move to more heart and meat.

-- Hamish (8 weeks) is like a little tazmainian devil when he eats.
Guinness 4yrs Lab 100lbs( but lean)
just finishes in 3 gulps and walks away.
Regards,
Heather

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

14. When starting out...how much is too much?
Posted by: "Mark Lester" iumadness64@yahoo.com iumadness64
Date: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:03 pm ((PDT))

I am ready to try the 'raw diet' for my 9mo golden retriever/yellow lab. I got her approx a week ago from the shelter. I keep reading that when you start the dog on the 'raw diet' that too little is better than too much. This reduces the chances of loose stool. She is approx 45lbs. How much is too much to feed her? Thanks for any assistance.

Mark Lester

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------