Feed Pets Raw Food: [rawfeeding] Digest Number 12103

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Rescues
From: Misty Sargent

2a. Re: Partial success with my "starving" dog
From: Misty Sargent

3a. Are pork ribs tips safe?
From: Carol Garnaat
3b. Re: Are pork ribs tips safe?
From: Andrea
3c. Re: Are pork ribs tips safe?
From: Giselle

4a. Re: Shedding on raw
From: Caren OConnor
4b. Re: Shedding on raw
From: Giselle

5. Co-op in Houston?
From: Michael Moore

6a. Re: 911-PLEASE HELP
From: T Smith

7a. Re: Frustrated and cannot find any answers -I'm In The Same Boat
From: Giselle
7b. Re: Frustrated and cannot find any answers -I'm In The Same Boat
From: Giselle

8a. raw feeding advice for a beginner
From: sfed57
8b. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
From: Tina Berry
8c. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
From: Sandee Lee
8d. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
From: sfed57
8e. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
From: Andrea

9a. Re: Largemouth Bass Heads and Misc. ?'s
From: larsen_biology

10a. Re: How often for different organs?
From: Giselle
10b. Re: How much raw egg?
From: Carol Dunster
10c. Re: How often for different organs?
From: Tina Berry
10d. Re: How much raw egg?
From: Tina Berry
10e. Re: How much raw egg?
From: Andrea
10f. Re: How much raw egg?
From: Carol Dunster

11a. Re: runns in house & gagging
From: T Smith

12a. Re: A few problems with raw diet
From: Giselle

Messages
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1a. Re: Rescues
Posted by: "Misty Sargent" jrtlover27@yahoo.com jrtlover27
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 12:30 pm ((PDT))

I treat my rescues as if they were one of my own dogs. They are fed raw along with my dogs, and if their adopter chooses to go back to kibble or something else, then that is their decision. I do encourage them to feed raw, but the reality is that not everyone is going to do it. I do find that the rescues who have been on a very low quality diet tend to take a bit longer to adjust to the raw, but they eventually do fine on it.

Misty

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Messages in this topic (7)
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2a. Re: Partial success with my "starving" dog
Posted by: "Misty Sargent" jrtlover27@yahoo.com jrtlover27
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 12:30 pm ((PDT))

I'm glad to hear that Fern is coming around. :-)

Misty

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Messages in this topic (3)
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3a. Are pork ribs tips safe?
Posted by: "Carol Garnaat" cgar88@ameritech.net sewnchine
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 12:30 pm ((PDT))

Hello all,
Are pork rib tips safe for my small dogs, Yorkie 8.5lb, Doxie 12lb? The rib
bones are cut 1/2 to 3/4 inches long.
Thanks for all your help,
Carol

Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: Are pork ribs tips safe?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 1:25 pm ((PDT))

If it is small enough for the little'uns to swallow without breaking it
down first I would pass. I'm terrible at estimating size but it sounds
too small to me.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Garnaat" <cgar88@...> wrote:

> Are pork rib tips safe for my small dogs, Yorkie 8.5lb, Doxie 12lb?
> The rib bones are cut 1/2 to 3/4 inches long.

Messages in this topic (3)
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3c. Re: Are pork ribs tips safe?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 3:17 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Carol!
Too small - feed food bigger than their head is a good rule
of thumb for tiny dogs, as well as big'uns.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> > Are pork rib tips safe for my small dogs, Yorkie 8.5lb, Doxie 12lb?
> > The rib bones are cut 1/2 to 3/4 inches long.
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: Shedding on raw
Posted by: "Caren OConnor" cavkist@yahoo.com cavkist
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 12:31 pm ((PDT))

Kae -
I have Cavalier King Charles Spaniels and they shed "to beat the band" all year 'round. I don't know how they would shed if fed a diet of doom nuggets because I've never fed these guys that type of diet.
When bathing my crew I use a comb after using a heavy conditioner and comb through to remove dead hair. That removes loads of hair but I need the vaccuum to catch the rest. I wasn't aware the shedding cycles of dogs on raw were different from the shedding cycles of dogs. Does anyone know this to be a fact?
Caren O'Connor
Nansemond Cavaliers

kaebruney <kaebruney@yahoo.com> wrote:
Someone posted some info sometiem back about the shedding cycles of
dogs on raw...

Can someone help me with that. I tried searching and can't find it.

My dogs are shedding liek the dickens now. My rat terrier is about
8mos and my AmBull is about 3yrs but has been on raw for only 2mos. i
know it's not time for them to change coats as it's not even cold
down here yet and there is no increased shedding from my Scottie.

Anyone have any idea what's going on and what I can do to help
alleviate it? I do give them fish oils in (as per the dosages
recommended here) their diet 2-3 times a week.
Thanks for the help!

Kae

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Messages in this topic (3)
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4b. Re: Shedding on raw
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 2:43 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Kae!
I don't think its a shedding cycle per se (although it can
occur at a normal time for dogs to shed), as it is some dogs body's
reaction to the more optimum nutrition. Out with the old, in with the
new, as it were.
Other dogs, who may not have as strong a reaction to eating raw, have
a more controlled shed, more than 'normal', but less than a complete
coat change.
Any of these different 'shed patterns' seem to occur anytime, from a
couple weeks to several months down the road from starting raw feeding.
Here's an archived post on the subject;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141039
and another;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141711

There are tons of posts you get if you type in shedding into the
search box, you just have to have patience and sort.

I'd give them each a bath, using a gentle additive free oatmeal
shampoo or castile soap. Then, I'd brush, and brush and brush -
outdoors - daily, to help the shed along. A good shedding brush, comb
or tool can help a lot. You don't have heavily coated breeds, so thank
your lucky stars! ; )
http://www.google.com/products?q=shedding+brush+comb&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=X&oi=product_result&resnum=1&ct=title
http://tinyurl.com/yse2wk

TC
Giselle

> Someone posted some info sometime back about the shedding cycles of
> dogs on raw...
>
> Can someone help me with that. I tried searching and can't find it.
>
> My dogs are shedding like the dickens now. <snip>
> Anyone have any idea what's going on and what I can do to help
> alleviate it? I do give them fish oils in (as per the dosages
> recommended here) their diet 2-3 times a week.
> Thanks for the help!
>
> Kae
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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5. Co-op in Houston?
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 12:31 pm ((PDT))

Hi, folks -- I'm asking for a friend who's recently moved to Houston, and I don't remember what "link" to send her to. Anyone have info on a rawfeeding co-op in the Houston, TX area? I'll pass it along. Thanks in advance...

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

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6a. Re: 911-PLEASE HELP
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 12:38 pm ((PDT))

You are in my thoughts & prayers for your little one.
We, too, just returned from an emergency vet visit.
PLEASE keep us updated, I know how worried you must be.
I wish I could give more advice but I am new to raw & screwing it up *s* so
definitely follow the 'oldies' here!
Trina

> From: <Doguefan@aol.com <Doguefan%40aol.com>>
>
> > I am new to this area, and I do not know this vet at all.? I went to the
> nearest place.? He stabilized her and took x-rays immediately.? There is
> nothing odd in the x-ray, no blockage now, but her little throat(remember
> this is a frenchie) was so swollen and irritated that she was choking on
> all
> the saliva.? She is on O2 and IV's and is doing well, she is calm and
> though
> she is still having a hard time breathing, it is not because she has a
> blocked airway.? NOW, the vet tells me he needs to open her up and take
> out
> whatever is in her stomach!? That sound slike a disaster to me, all the
> secondary infections of opening a gutt!
> > Does anyone have any advice?? If she got the bone down, will it
> digest...PLEASE HELP ME!
>

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Messages in this topic (23)
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7a. Re: Frustrated and cannot find any answers -I'm In The Same Boat
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 1:22 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Carla!
Your problem with Beau sounds like a combination of a dog
thats hard to keep and one who KNOWS if he holds out, he will get
something 'better'. Not an easy combo to overcome.

We like focus and persistence in a dog when we're training them, but
not when they use it to get their own way! ; )

This is complicated by the fact that he also knows when training time
is coming, and can get high value stuff (to him) then, too.
I'd stick with the feeding plan and schedule you have set with Bailey,
for Beau, too; but I'd plan to offer higher fat meats, like pork and
tongue.
Both these archived posts can help you get your boy on track;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/134336
Message #134336

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/130758
Message #130758

Tripe can indeed be a way to get him to eat what he doesn't like, if
you ribbon a portion or cut slits in it and mash the tripe into the
piece. If he likes tripe, tho' I've never heard of a dog who didn't.
For this purpose, I'd used the coarsely ground that you can buy online.

Another thing I would do, is start using raw as training treats.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/142146
message # 142146
Mixing the 'old' training treats with raw treats in the same container
can make the raw more palatable, and then you just phase out the 'old
stuff' gradually.

Someone recently emailed me (Thanks, Nicole!) and mentioned that she
is making teensy 1/4 ounce meatballs as training treats. She freezes
them, and takes out just enough for the day. You could mix up some
ground meat with ground tripe, sounds yummy! If Beau likes to chew,
you could stuff a Kong with ground meat/tripe and poke a Bully stick
in it - freeze, and you have a Kongsickle!
Once Beau figures out that he won't get 'the old stuff' anywhere,
anymore, he will start to accommodate his palate to raw.

Hmm, any other ideas? Yeah, if Beau got any tummy grumbles when first
eating raw, he may just be reluctant to experience that again. Some
dogs are VERY proactive when it comes to avoiding stuff that doesn't
agree. Its a survival skill. You could use Slippery Elm Bark Powder
with his meals, temporarily, to counteract any upset he might experience.
15. SEBP - Slippery Elm Bark Powder. This is a good innocuous herb
that soothes the stomach and digestive system. If you feel you need to
intervene when your dog has loose poops or constipation, this is the
way to go. SEBP is âœused to treat diarrhea, constipation, enteritis,
colitis & irritations of the stomach. Used to soothe, protect &
lubricate mucous membranes. Also, used to relieve the discomforts of
kennel cough & other types of bronchitis.â
http://fiascofarm.com/herbs/supplements.htm
I use 1 tsp of SEBP to one ounce of ground or chopped chicken. Mix
together and shape enough meatballs for several days doses, and freeze
them. They thaw quickly. For small dogs, divide in Â½ ounce meatballs,
for large to giant dogs, 1 ounce meatballs. Feed 1 with each meal. Or,
fast for a day, (not for pups, fast for just a meal or two) offer
plenty of water. Feed SEBP meatballs 3-4 times throughout the day.
Feed smaller, more frequent meals for several days after, gradually
increasing the meals and decreasing the SEBP meatballs. You will often
see an increase in mucousy poops with SEBP, this is part of the way it
soothes the digestive system, and the dogâ™s body will do the same
sometimes even without SEBP.

Another thing you can do, which will be harder than anything else, is
not to stress and worry, and hover. Dogs pick up on our feelings, if
not our meanings, and part of his problem with the new raw food may be
that meals have become impossibly anxiety filled for him, and he'd
rather not deal.

Do you still have kibble or processed treats in the house? Tossing the
'old stuff' and cleaning out the containers and storage area while
Beau is there watching, can help 'clear the air' and get rid of the
'alluring scent' of those Doom Nuggets.

Breathe, frequently and often, and SMILE whenever you think about
feeding Beau.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> His sister Bailey is an easy keeper. She was on kibble as well. She
eats
> anything and everything although was slow to switch over to raw, but
now that she
> has gotten the hang of things loves it and continues to look great.
Will even
> eat little chicken feet for snacks now. :o) Can't wait to finish her
and breed
> her next year and have some raw babies! (But to find a raw fed,
no-vac male
> that I like will be another hurdle, but I will address that then :o))
>
> As I mentioned I have been fortunate and took it slow with the dogs
and have
> found no tummy upsets with any of the protein sources that I have
used which
> have only been chicken, pork, beef, lamb, duck and fish and can take
mixed
> meats. Organ meat also agrees with them.
>
> As far as Beau goes, when he was on a k***le, he needed one that was
high in
> protein and fat to maintain his weight and did best on a food for
very active
> dogs, which he is not and he tended to require more food than less.
If say his
> weight listed on the bag required 4-6 cups of food, he would need 6
cups. (Of
> course that was not carved in stone and I know just a guideline but
I adjust
> that for the dog) That worked fine for him. I do not consider him an
easy
> keeper, but I really didn't have to do anything special besides
having him on the
> right food. I don't keep my dogs fat, even when showing, but since
he has been
> on raw he has dropped a good 15 or more pounds and now has the terrible
> tearing of his eyes.
>
> He does not always refuse his meals. Like this morning after missing
three
> days of eating, he ate about 2 lbs of the pork loin that had been
seared and had
> garlic on it. I only put part of it down,
> because I thought maybe he would eat some and he did. On k****le
they ate two
> meals. I have tried two meals with him and one meal and seems to
make no
> difference. He has never been a dog to eat large amounts in one
sitting, so again
> I was figuring two meals at the beginning of raw was the way to go.
When he
> doesn't want the food, he walks over to it, sniffs it and then tries
to cover it
> with whatever is handy...a leaf, a toy, whatever and then goes and
lays down.
> I know he is hungry because when he is training in obedience class
he is
> quite interested in the cooked chicken or liver. If he is going to
eat the food he
> eats it and if not, he won't. It now doesn't seem to matter what it is,
> whether it is a London broil or baby back ribs or chicken or liver
or pork shoulder
> or whatever. He went through a not wanting chicken, but got through
that.
>
> I just got some green tripe today, but he can't just eat tripe.
>
> Again, I know all of the experienced people are just rolling their
eyes at
> me, but I am an experienced dog person who tells people all of the
time don't
> let your dog dictate what it will and won't eat. This is different
when you see
> your dog who looked great before, looking terrible on something that is
> supposed to be good for him. It is frustrating.
>
> HELP!!!! :o(
>
> Regards,
> Carla

Messages in this topic (6)
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7b. Re: Frustrated and cannot find any answers -I'm In The Same Boat
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 1:25 pm ((PDT))

Pooh, got carried away and forgot to mention this list;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ClassifiedDogsNR/
TC
G

<snip>
Can't wait to finish her and breed
> her next year and have some raw babies! (But to find a raw fed,
no-vac male
> that I like will be another hurdle, but I will address that then :o))
<snip>
> HELP!!!! :o(
>
> Regards,
> Carla

Messages in this topic (6)
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8a. raw feeding advice for a beginner
Posted by: "sfed57" sfed57@yahoo.ca sfed57
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 1:25 pm ((PDT))

Hello all, I've just joined the group and am so pleased with the
amount of supportive advice I have been seeing on the site. After
having so much trouble with finding good quality dog foods in the K%
^&ble variaty, I have decided to try my dogs on the raw food. I
currently have to drive two and a half hours to buy the food I'm
feeding them (which, for K**ble standars is very good, it is made
locally with human quality chicken, locally cought whitfish and
salmon, other meats, and absolutly no carbs)and a 30lbs bag cost me
$65 and only last two and a half weeks!! Still, as good as it may
seem, I really am seeing the benefit of switching to raw.

I have two Siberian Huskys. Ruby is a ten month old female about
47lbs and my Raven is a five month old female I think about 15-
20lbs. My question is do I feed Raven 2-3% of her ideal ADULT
weight? In this case, I would be feeding my two dogs the same amount
even though one is full grown and one is still a little puppy? Also,
their weight should be between 35-50lbs so do I just average at
around 42 lbs for the ideal weight?

Any advice would be much appreciated, thanks so much,

Shawna

Messages in this topic (5)
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8b. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 2:08 pm ((PDT))

"My question is do I feed Raven 2-3% of her ideal ADULT weight? In this
case, I would be feeding my two dogs the same amount even though one is full
grown and one is still a little puppy?"

You are correct - this is a good place to start and then adjust if they get
too fat or too thin. You should be able to see their last rib and their
sides should feel like a washboard when they are at an ideal weight, but not
too skinny.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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8c. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 2:10 pm ((PDT))

Hi Shawna,

You don't need to drive 2 1/2 hours to purchase "made" food for your dogs.
If you have a grocery store anywhere nearby, you can feed them far more
economically and healthier. Just run down and buy a chicken, a fish, some
beef parts, a nice pork roast, etc. and you're all set! :))

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "sfed57" <sfed57@yahoo.ca>

Messages in this topic (5)
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8d. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
Posted by: "sfed57" sfed57@yahoo.ca sfed57
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 2:48 pm ((PDT))

Thanks, I'll start them on the same amount of food. And no kidding,
its rediculous to have to drive that far to get "good" K***ble, I
figure with the cost of food and gas, I was spending at least $5 a day
on food for them. Even though the groceries in my remote town are very
expensive, I will still save money by switching to raw, not to mention
how much better it is for them!

Shawna

Messages in this topic (5)
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8e. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 2:51 pm ((PDT))

Shawna, you're right, you should start feeding both girls the same
amount of food. Raven should probably have her meals split into two
feedings a day for a while. You don't have to be super precise with
the amount of food the girls eat, so shoot for feeding them 3/4 to
1lb of food a day. Once they have been eating for a while you can
use their appearance as a guide to feed more or less.

It's usually easiest to start with chicken, though any protein source
will do. Just stick with that one source for a week or two until you
are sure their digestion is up to snuff. At least you know you won't
have to ask yourself if the price is too high with raw feeding!
Assuming your pups eat around 1lb a day you could spend $2.30/lb on
food and still break even! Welcome to the group.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "sfed57" <sfed57@...> wrote:

> I currently have to drive two and a half hours to buy the food I'm
> feeding them (which, for K**ble standars is very good, it is made
> locally with human quality chicken, locally cought whitfish and
> salmon, other meats, and absolutly no carbs)and a 30lbs bag cost me
> $65 and only last two and a half weeks!! Still, as good as it may
> seem, I really am seeing the benefit of switching to raw.
>
> I have two Siberian Huskys. Ruby is a ten month old female about
> 47lbs and my Raven is a five month old female I think about 15-
> 20lbs. My question is do I feed Raven 2-3% of her ideal ADULT
> weight? In this case, I would be feeding my two dogs the same
> amount even though one is full grown and one is still a little
> puppy? Also, their weight should be between 35-50lbs

Messages in this topic (5)
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9a. Re: Largemouth Bass Heads and Misc. ?'s
Posted by: "larsen_biology" larsen_biology@yahoo.com larsen_biology
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 1:26 pm ((PDT))

Thanks for the feedback. The only issue on this particular lake would
be mercury and its not in the "crazy don't do it list..." more in the
watch and limit consumption to just a few times each month. I'm not
worried about the heads since it'll only be a one meal thing. However,
I have decided that edible or not, I'll not be doing the squawfish- at
least from this lake.

We are in California (on Clear Lake) so I am familiar with mercury and
other contaminants. My DH and I are avid bass fisherman and are *very*
selective about the lakes that we'll eat from.

Largemouth bass are not pacific salmonids so I am not worried about
salmon poisoning at all. One of the upsides! I didn't "plan" on them
ingesting any parts of the fish prior to freezing- it was totally my
fault for not restricting their access to the yard while we cleaned.
At least the fish were not "fresh caught" and had been iced for 24
hours.

-Heather

Messages in this topic (3)
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10a. Re: How often for different organs?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 1:51 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Carol!

****I wouldn't feed a whole meal of organs to any dog I wasn't sure could
> >tolerate it. Feeding whole meals of squidgey ick organs is a sure
> >recipe for cannon butt. Toleration often can be built up over time.
****
>
> Is that the main reason for not feeding more organ meat?

**** Organs are important, but, they are NOT meat. Organs should
comprise 10% of the TOTAL diet.

Some organs are fed as meat, because they are.
The percentages we use and recommend to feed are an approximation of
whole prey, which, for each animal, is perfectly balanced.
80% of a dog's diet should be meatymeat - that consists of muscle,
fat, skin, fur, connective tissue - any part that isn't bone or organ.
Organs that are fed as meat are; heart, gizzards, tongue and most
likely, tripe. ****

What are the
> good points and the bad ones for liver, for instance? (I have a large
> supply of quality organ meat, but can find other stuff I'm sure.)

**** Liver is an essential part of the diet - and it should comprise
only about 3-5% of the TOTAL diet.

You can't feed organs instead of meatymeat, just like bones can't take
the place of meatymeat or organs, but they all have their place.

If you overfeed organs, short term, most likely you'll have cannon
butt or the hershey squirts PDQ - at some point, long term, your dog
might have an overabundance of Vit. A from liver - you'll have to
balance it out with lots of meatymeat and a little bone. ****
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> ~ Carol
> _____________
> Carol Dunster
> cedunster@...

Messages in this topic (12)
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10b. Re: How much raw egg?
Posted by: "Carol Dunster" cedunster@centurytel.net carwynst
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 1:59 pm ((PDT))

Ok, I have the percentage pretty well figured for the organ meat...
now how much egg is appropriate? Often our ducks lay more than we need
and I KNOW how they are fed and cared for, so I'd want to use their
eggs too. Are there any other considerations for feeding raw eggs?
~ Carol
_____________
Carol Dunster
cedunster@centurytel.net

Messages in this topic (12)
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10c. Re: How often for different organs?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 2:01 pm ((PDT))

"If you overfeed organs, short term, most likely you'll have cannon butt or
the hershey squirts PDQ - at some point, long term, your dog might have an
overabundance of Vit. A from liver - you'll have to balance it out with lots
of meatymeat and a little bone."

Ditto. And we feed liver either a little with each meal (like whole
chickens with organs) or once a week feed a liver meal. They can get too
much Vitamin A & D from liver; it should be 10% of total diet over time
meaning it doesn't have to be 10% per meal or per week; just average out to
10% over time.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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10d. Re: How much raw egg?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 2:08 pm ((PDT))

"Ok, I have the percentage pretty well figured for the organ meat... now how
much egg is appropriate? Often our ducks lay more than we need and I KNOW
how they are fed and cared for, so I'd want to use their eggs too."

I give mine a raw whole egg daily.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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10e. Re: How much raw egg?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 2:48 pm ((PDT))

> Are there any other considerations for feeding raw eggs?

IMO, just bowel tolerance. I don't think I've ever fed my boys enough
egg to give them loose stools, but I've also never fed them more than
one or two at a time every so often. They love eggs, but I'm not such
a huge fan of the egg-farts that they bless me with. It is a joy to
watch Geiger gently break open his egg and lick out the inside. Not so
much fun to watch Tycho throw the egg in the air so it breaks open on
the kitchen floor. <Note to self: ask Tycho to study Geiger eating eggs>

Andrea

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10f. Re: How much raw egg?
Posted by: "Carol Dunster" cedunster@centurytel.net carwynst
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 2:48 pm ((PDT))

On Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:01:42 -0600, you wrote:

>I give mine a raw whole egg daily.

What size dog do you give a whole egg daily?
~ Carol
_____________
Carol Dunster
cedunster@centurytel.net

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11a. Re: runns in house & gagging
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 1:59 pm ((PDT))

After my posting this morning, Whisper had a gran mal seizure.
We've returned from the vet but I am still very upset about a few things, I
am at work (she is with me).
Trina

--
Chip (deaf Dalmatian)
Casper (deaf Great Dane)
Whisper (deaf Great Dane)
Louie (hearing Great Dane)
Joey (deaf & blind Lhasa Apso)
Amy (disabled Lhasa Apso)
Cassandra (disabled Lhasa Apso)
Mr Paris (Lhasa Apso)
Chloe (deaf & blind Spaniel mix)
.

On 10/1/07, Andrea <poketmouse45@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Trina, I think you are being a good protective mom to your pup and
> just getting too worried about something that isn't a big deal. If
> she ate beef bone without a lot of meat to cushion it, it is likely
> she scratched her throat a little which causes her to cough. Other
> than being annoying for her, it doesn't seem to bother her much - as
> evidenced by her running around and playing as usual. FYI, though
> beef ribS are a good workout, a beef rib (single) is not usually
> recommended for anything but toy dogs since larger ones can easily
> try to swallow the whole thing. You could always take her into the
> vet so they could have a look at her throat and check for kennel
> cough just in case if it still bothers you.
>
> Everyone makes some missteps along the way, some larger than others.
> IMO this wasn't a big mistake on your part, just a learning
> experience.
>
> Andrea
>

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12a. Re: A few problems with raw diet
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 3:05 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Elizabeth!
Wolves, the wild counterpart to our dogs, do NOT eat the
stomach contents of large prey. This is a misconception, propagated by
the inaccurate reportings of some early wolf observers. They reported
that wolves usually consumed the *stomach* of the prey first, when
they should have reported that they opened and consumed the *abdomen*,
which is the easiest part to open, and is the gateway to those
essential organs. This misconception has led to feeding plans that
include vegetable matter, and grinding, pureeing and suchlike.

Wolves may consume some or part or a little of the digesta of large
prey, but that would be because they didn't shake it out thoroughly
enough, or because the hunting had been scarce and they were starving.

Wolves, and dogs, have not evolved to derive optimum nourishment from
plant matter. Even that which is predigested by prey animals. They eat
the animals that eat the plant matter, and derive all their nutrients
in this way. Each to its own ecological niche.

You might benefit from reading over these recommendations for feeding raw;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374

post # 141374

And these websites;
http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

Raw feeding is not hard, but there is a plethora of websites, books,
old wives tales and 'info' out there that makes it seem difficult,
that isn't helpful, and may be harmful to feeding your dogs a species
appropriate raw whole prey model diet, which gives them optimum
nutrition in a form that feeds the whole dog.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Okay thank you so much Libby. You actually addressed quite a few of my
> concerns that I didn't mention. It was hard work grinding all that
> stuff up. I'll check the archives like you said. The only reason I did
> all that grinding is because I read it in a book, and because it
> simulated the contents of the prey's stomach. In case you check back
> on this, would I be looking for animal organs that still contained the
> stomach contents before it was killed? Or are you just talking about
> organs like heart, liver, kidneys and that stuff? Thanks a lot for
> your help and the percentages you gave.
>
> -Elizabeth O.

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Feed Pets Raw Food

Monday, October 1, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12103

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