Feed Pets Raw Food: [rawfeeding] Digest Number 12102

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: runns in house & gagging!
From: T Smith
1b. Re: runns in house & gagging!
From: Andrea
1c. Re: runns in house & gagging!
From: costrowski75

2a. Re: Frustrated and cannot find any answers
From: briargarden07
2b. 911-PLEASE HELP
From: Doguefan@aol.com
2c. Re: 911-PLEASE HELP
From: Andrea
2d. Re: 911-PLEASE HELP
From: brutus_buckley
2e. Re: 911-PLEASE HELP
From: Sandee Lee
2f. Re: 911-PLEASE HELP
From: costrowski75
2g. Re: 911-PLEASE HELP
From: Doguefan@aol.com
2h. Re: 911-PLEASE HELP
From: shane clays
2i. Re: 911-PLEASE HELP
From: carnesbill

3a. Re: A few problems with raw diet
From: Andrea

4a. Re: {raw feeding} Link for Graigs list
From: keishay79

5a. Re: runns in house & gagging
From: Andrea
5b. Re: runns in house & gagging
From: Giselle

6. FREECYCLE (was: Cheap meat)
From: T Smith

7a. Partial success with my "starving" dog
From: qsgirl916
7b. Re: Partial success with my "starving" dog
From: Andrea

8a. Largemouth Bass Heads and Misc. ?'s
From: larsen_biology
8b. Re: Largemouth Bass Heads and Misc. ?'s
From: k9dine

9. Shedding on raw
From: kaebruney

10a. Re: Prepared Raw
From: Sandee Lee
10b. Re: Prepared Raw
From: raffiangel2

11.1. Re: New to raw
From: Giselle

Messages
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1a. Re: runns in house & gagging!
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 10:34 am ((PDT))

No one's 'fault'. We let her have it since it has been almost a week, we
didn't think it would be so horrible. Remember I am VERY new to this
feeding, I don't want to be made to feel guilty for feeding a something I
didn't know she wasn't ready for. Why would it cause her to hack (like
gagging kennel cough?) BTW, she doesn't have kennel cough, that's just what
it sounds like as an example.
Please understand this feed change was a HUGE step for me & I want to be
convinced it's the right thing to do but if i don't get it right & I think
my dogs are suffering from it's effects, it might not be the right thing for
us. I only want what's best for my dogs & not to have blame pointed at
me.
Sorry but it's a sensitive issue trying to get this feeding right & thinking
I have just hurt my dog by feeding it a bone that I assumed by reading would
be fine! Perhaps you didn't mean anything Chris & I know you are a list
moderator.
Have a nice day.

Trina

On 10/1/07, costrowski75 <Chriso75@aol.com> wrote:
>
> "T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:
> >> She did get a beef bone to chew on, could this be the cause of this
> whole
> > mess??????
> *****
> Yes.
> And whose fault is that?
> Chris O
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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1b. Re: runns in house & gagging!
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 11:30 am ((PDT))

Trina, I think you are being a good protective mom to your pup and
just getting too worried about something that isn't a big deal. If
she ate beef bone without a lot of meat to cushion it, it is likely
she scratched her throat a little which causes her to cough. Other
than being annoying for her, it doesn't seem to bother her much - as
evidenced by her running around and playing as usual. FYI, though
beef ribS are a good workout, a beef rib (single) is not usually
recommended for anything but toy dogs since larger ones can easily
try to swallow the whole thing. You could always take her into the
vet so they could have a look at her throat and check for kennel
cough just in case if it still bothers you.

Everyone makes some missteps along the way, some larger than others.
IMO this wasn't a big mistake on your part, just a learning
experience.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:

> Sorry but it's a sensitive issue trying to get this feeding right &
> thinking I have just hurt my dog by feeding it a bone that I
> assumed by reading would be fine!

Messages in this topic (9)
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1c. Re: runns in house & gagging!
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 11:56 am ((PDT))

"T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:
>
> No one's 'fault'. We let her have it since it has been almost a
week, we
> didn't think it would be so horrible. Remember I am VERY new to
this
> feeding, I don't want to be made to feel guilty for feeding a
something I
> didn't know she wasn't ready
*****
Yes, you are very new. And you have asked many many questions which
is fine and many many members have devoted a wonderful amount of time
to helping you through your anxieties. I am blown away by the
efforts these people have sustained to assist you. There are some
remarkable people on this list.

Almost every one of these people suggested you go slowly, you start
simply, you not rush changes. They suggested meat choices and body
part choices. They discussed easy to eat bones and bones that are
difficult. Without doubt beef bones were included in the
conversations and I am pretty sure no one recommended beef bones at
this point. In fact, I'm pretty sure you were also told about
digestive fallout and what likely causes it.

That you chose to feed what you did despite the tonnage of advice you
received is unfortunate. I'm not sure why exactly you thought she
would be ready for a beef bone. It is somewhat distressing to think
you have not been reading all the good words people have been sending
your way.

Why would it cause her to hack (like
> gagging kennel cough?)
*****(
Possibly because her esophagus has been abraded.

> Please understand this feed change was a HUGE step for me & I want
to be
> convinced it's the right thing to do
*****
Slow down, pay attention to what people are recommending, think
things through, and ask questions beforehand. It is better--as I
think you unfortunately discovered--that proceeding by leaps and
precipitious bounds may not be the most successful way for you to
switch to raw food.

Given the special needs of your dogs, you might have proceed extra
super slowly to "do it right". You should. You shouldn't even think
twice about having to move slowly. You should however put a whole
lot of thought into taking ANY giant steps at this point.

It's easier to back up from baby steps than it is to recover from
wherever giant steps have taken you.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
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2a. Re: Frustrated and cannot find any answers
Posted by: "briargarden07" briargarden07@yahoo.com briargarden07
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 10:34 am ((PDT))

To the OP - I wonder what you mean by allergies? Dogs with itchy
skin or hot spots, ect, are often lumped into the "allergy" category,
when in fact, the dog suffers from a dietary deficiency. I've been
feeding raw long enough to have seen many obstacles that, in the
beginning, I also mistakenly thought were allergies.
I don't go crazy over balance, but you need to pay some
attention to it, and while variety helps, you may still have gaps in
the nutritional value. Are you feeding any foods that are high in
zinc (lamb, beef, fish) and how often do you give them? Dogs require
a very high zinc content in their diet, and this is always the
nutrient I have a hard time squeezing enough of in the diet, because
i do feed mostly chicken.
On the subject of chicken, I know its contrary to what we've
always heard, but sometimes trimming most of the fat does help bring
down the Omega 6 content and helps balance out the ratio of Omega 3:6
fatty acids. In turn, instead of giving poor coats, trimming the fat
off chicken helps IMPROVE coat and alleviate itching. Wolves in the
wild do not have the luxury of consuming fatty prey. Rather, most of
what they catch are extremely lean, because no wild animal will be as
overfed and inactive as chickens being fed for slaughter. I have also
noticed that some of my black dogs took on a reddish tint with too
much chicken fat in their diet, so trimming the fat also has
eliminated that problem as well. You are better off giving lamb for
fatty content, since it contains so much zinc and less Omega 6 as
chicken.

Noelle M.

Messages in this topic (22)
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2b. 911-PLEASE HELP
Posted by: "Doguefan@aol.com" Doguefan@aol.com knoxkennels
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 11:27 am ((PDT))

I have a frenchie puppy-11 weeks that has been eating raw for two weeks now.? She choked this morning on her usual chicken breast!? I heard is in her crate, and she was BLUE!? She could not get any air.? I stuck my finger in her mouth and down her throat.? I was able to feel the tip of a bone, but I could not get it.? I got in the car and ran to the vet, she was NOT getting much air at all...I did not think she would make it to the vet.?
I am new to this area, and I do not know this vet at all.? I went to the nearest place.? He stabilized her and took x-rays immediately.? There is nothing odd in the x-ray, no blockage now, but her little throat(remember this is a frenchie) was so swollen and irritated that she was choking on all the saliva.? She is on O2 and IV's and is doing well, she is calm and though she is still having a hard time breathing, it is not because she has a blocked airway.? NOW, the vet tells me he needs to open her up and take out whatever is in her stomach!? That sound slike a disaster to me, all the secondary infections of opening a gutt!
Does anyone have any advice?? If she got the bone down, will it digest...PLEASE HELP ME!

__,_._I

________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (22)
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2c. Re: 911-PLEASE HELP
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 11:35 am ((PDT))

First off, I'm glad your dog is doing better, I'm sorry that you guys
had the scare. If she was eating bone in chicken breast I see no
reason why the bone wouldn't digest fine in her stomach, breast bones
are about the softest in the chicken. If there is no problem seen
from the x-ray I don't see a reason to chance surgery. I hope the
pup feels better and I hope the vet gives you a reason for surgery
other than she won't digest the bone (because I can't see that being
true). Please, keep us updated.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Doguefan@... wrote:
>
>
> I have a frenchie puppy-11 weeks that has been eating raw for two
weeks now.? She choked this morning on her usual chicken breast!? I
heard is in her crate, and she was BLUE!? She could not get any air.?
I stuck my finger in her mouth and down her throat.? I was able to
feel the tip of a bone, but I could not get it.? I got in the car and
ran to the vet, she was NOT getting much air at all...I did not think
she would make it to the vet.?
> I am new to this area, and I do not know this vet at all.? I went
to the nearest place.? He stabilized her and took x-rays
immediately.? There is nothing odd in the x-ray, no blockage now, but
her little throat(remember this is a frenchie) was so swollen and
irritated that she was choking on all the saliva.? She is on O2 and
IV's and is doing well, she is calm and though she is still having a
hard time breathing, it is not because she has a blocked airway.?
NOW, the vet tells me he needs to open her up and take out whatever
is in her stomach!? That sound slike a disaster to me, all the
secondary infections of opening a gutt!
> Does anyone have any advice?? If she got the bone down, will it
digest...PLEASE HELP ME!
>
>
>
>
> __,_._I
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL
Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (22)
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2d. Re: 911-PLEASE HELP
Posted by: "brutus_buckley" brutus_buckley@yahoo.com brutus_buckley
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 11:36 am ((PDT))

I would certainly wait and see if it passes naturally before doing any
surgery! It might not turn out to be an obstruction; then your poor
little pup will have to recover from surgery on top of everything else.
Please keep us posted.
-Renee W.

Messages in this topic (22)
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2e. Re: 911-PLEASE HELP
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 11:50 am ((PDT))

Of course the bone will digest. Do not let the vet do surgery!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: <Doguefan@aol.com>

> I am new to this area, and I do not know this vet at all.? I went to the
nearest place.? He stabilized her and took x-rays immediately.? There is
nothing odd in the x-ray, no blockage now, but her little throat(remember
this is a frenchie) was so swollen and irritated that she was choking on all
the saliva.? She is on O2 and IV's and is doing well, she is calm and though
she is still having a hard time breathing, it is not because she has a
blocked airway.? NOW, the vet tells me he needs to open her up and take out
whatever is in her stomach!? That sound slike a disaster to me, all the
secondary infections of opening a gutt!
> Does anyone have any advice?? If she got the bone down, will it
digest...PLEASE HELP ME!

Messages in this topic (22)
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2f. Re: 911-PLEASE HELP
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 12:16 pm ((PDT))

Doguefan@... wrote:
There is nothing odd in the x-ray, no blockage now, but her little
throat(remember this is a frenchie) was so swollen and irritated that
she was choking on all the saliva.?
*****
That will heal with time. I suspect the vet may want to give her
some abx because that's what vets do, but soft food and room
temperature water should get down okay. Maybe even a bit of broth.
You might also feed her several small meals until the inflammation
goes away.

NOW, the vet tells me he needs to open her up and take out whatever
is in her stomach!?
*****
Why don't you ask the vet? Doesn't sound like anything has been
determined. If there's no reason to cut her open, then she should
not be cut open! Dogs, even young small breeds, have the ability to
digest chicken bones. Unless there is significant indication that
something else is in there, I can't see a justification for abdominal
surgery.'

Please let us know how this resolves.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (22)
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2g. Re: 911-PLEASE HELP
Posted by: "Doguefan@aol.com" Doguefan@aol.com knoxkennels
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 12:26 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

Thank you...God they make you feel like you had better do it or she will die right now!? I knew better, My big dogs eat huge bones but they are 165 lb DDB.? They digest everything.? And the puppy has been doing so well, I was just starting to introduce new meats to her, now I am surely PARANOID!
I told them to wait on the surgery.? They are giving decadron and IV antibiotics, because of the irritated throat and asophagus(sp?).
Pray for the little thing!
Chelsea

-----Original Message-----
From: Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 11:50 am
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] 911-PLEASE HELP

Of course the bone will digest. Do not let the vet do surgery!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: <Doguefan@aol.com>

________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (22)
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2h. Re: 911-PLEASE HELP
Posted by: "shane clays" shane_clays@yahoo.com shane_clays
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 12:28 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

Did the vet say why he needed to do surgery? Does the vet know that it is an uncooked chicken bone? Did you explain to the vet (this may be a good time??) that the dog is on a raw food diet and has been succesfully digesting raw chicken bones for the last couple weeks?

I know this is very stressful to you right now and I am sorry to hear this happened, however, try and take a deep breath and think through the situation... If it were me, I would leave the dog there for observation and have her monitored, but would NOT do surgery unless there is a varifiable reason beyond getting the chicken bone out. After 2 weeks, she should have enough acids to break that down as she usually does.

Good luck and keep us posted....

Shane Clays
Phx, AZ

Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com> wrote:
NOW, the vet tells me he needs to open her up and take out
whatever is in her stomach!? That sound slike a disaster to me, all the
secondary infections of opening a gutt!
> Does anyone have any advice?? If she got the bone down, will it
digest...PLEASE HELP ME!

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Messages in this topic (22)
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2i. Re: 911-PLEASE HELP
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 12:29 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Doguefan@... wrote:
>
>
> NOW, the vet tells me he needs to open her up and take
> out whatever is in her stomach!? That sound slike a disaster
> to me, all the secondary infections of opening a gutt!
> Does anyone have any advice?? If she got the bone down, will
> it digest...PLEASE HELP ME!

Do NOT do the surgery ... IT WILL DIGEST.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (22)
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3a. Re: A few problems with raw diet
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 10:34 am ((PDT))

> The only reason I did all that grinding is because I read it in a
> book, and because it simulated the contents of the prey's stomach.

Yeah, there are a bunch of books out there that insist that dogs eat
the contents of their prey's stomach. That might be true with small
animals like rabbits where the animal is more of a crunch crunch done
thing, but with bigger animals they will most often open up the
stomach and shake the contents out.

> would I be looking for animal organs that still contained the
> stomach contents before it was killed? Or are you just talking about
> organs like heart, liver, kidneys and that stuff?

Just plain organs. There are some places that offer green tripe (raw
stomach material of usually cows) that dogs really like. It can be
pretty expensive to get depending on where you live, but that is
about as close as you need to get to buying stomach contents. Not
that green tripe is necessary, just another fun (and smelly) thing to
offer.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (6)
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4a. Re: {raw feeding} Link for Graigs list
Posted by: "keishay79" keishay79@yahoo.com keishay79
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 10:35 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> I think you want Craig's list
> http://www.craigslist.org
>
> Andrea
>
I just put an ad up this morning.So far I have gotten one reply,
However they are nearly 2hrs from me. If anyone on here lives in or
near Lincolnton, NC and wants about 20+lbs of deer. Let me know, I can
put you in contact with the lady.

Keisha

Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. Re: runns in house & gagging
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 10:37 am ((PDT))

Ok, I think the loose stool (it was dark in color, right?) was a result
of liver and heart being introduced at the same time as well as the
beef rib (I assume it had some meat on it). I don't think you have any
big problems, but you'll want to hold off on beef ribs until the pups
are more accustomed to the diet. Also, you should give whole slabs of
ribs instead of singletons when you get around to it. It's probably
good that she skipped breakfast, next meal it would be good to give
something easy and meaty like chicken breast quarter. Since liver and
heart can both cause loose stools it's best to introduce them in
seperate meals from now on.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:
>
> Not bile, clear fluid with some brown tint here & there.
> Beef spare rib & only one each for some chewing & intro to beef
> slowly. She ate her dinner after that (a few hours)
> Before the watery poo she had eaten her regular chicken with a wee
> amount of liver & a small heart (probably about 4 hours before)

Messages in this topic (9)
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5b. Re: runns in house & gagging
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 12:13 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Trina!
Beef bones are the densest bones, and the hardest to digest.
My Bea is a Newfy, and 130 lbs - she pretty much has a cast iron
digestion. But, if she horks, its usually beef bone bits. Therefor, I
don't feed her beef bone. I make sure that the beef she gets is heart,
or boneless roast (I remove any bone) or if I feed beef ribs, its a
slab of them, and I take them up when she's done flossing.
Slippery Elm Bark Powder can help soothe an irritated gut, and help a
new-to-raw dog over digestive issues related to adjustment to raw, or
over enthusiastic new-to-raw owners feeding too much or to much new
when introducing new proteins and organs. It won't firm loose stools,
but it reduces inflammation and irritation and coats the intestines
with mucous.
From my recommendations;
****15. SEBP - Slippery Elm Bark Powder. This is a good innocuous herb
that soothes the stomach and digestive system. If you feel you need to
intervene when your dog has loose poops or constipation, this is the
way to go. SEBP is âœused to treat diarrhea, constipation, enteritis,
colitis & irritations of the stomach. Used to soothe, protect &
lubricate mucous membranes. Also, used to relieve the discomforts of
kennel cough & other types of bronchitis.â
http://fiascofarm.com/herbs/supplements.htm
I use 1 tsp of SEBP to one ounce of ground or chopped chicken. Mix
together and shape enough meatballs for several days doses, and freeze
them. They thaw quickly. For small dogs, divide in Â½ ounce meatballs,
for large to giant dogs, 1 ounce meatballs. Feed 1 with each meal. Or,
fast for a day, (not for pups, fast for just a meal or two) offer
plenty of water or low sodium broth. Feed SEBP meatballs 3-4 times
throughout the day. Feed smaller, more frequent meals for several days
after, gradually increasing the meals and decreasing the SEBP
meatballs. You will often see an increase in mucousy poops with SEBP,
this is part of the way it soothes the digestive system, and the dogâ™s
body will do the same sometimes even without SEBP. ****

The hacking may be because her throat has been scraped with a sharp
piece of bone while eating. This can cause coughing or gagging, or
even vomiting. There are often large chunks of cut bone at the end of
a beef rib, so if she swallowed a hunk, that might account for the
problems.
TC
Giselle

> Not bile, clear fluid with some brown tint here & there.
> Beef spare rib & only one each for some chewing & intro to beef slowly.
> She ate her dinner after that (a few hours)
> Before the watery poo she had eaten her regular chicken with a wee
amount of
> liver & a small heart (probably about 4 hours before)
> She ate on schedule but maybe a bit more than usual at dinner? She
is a 4
> month old puppy.
>
> She refused to eat this morning & still hacking really bad but full of
> energy.
> I hope we don't have a serious issue, this is real discouraging.
> Trina

Messages in this topic (9)
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6. FREECYCLE (was: Cheap meat)
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 10:37 am ((PDT))

Can anyone tell me what to write to this list to look for meats?
We seem to have a very active one on the island I live on. :-)
Trina

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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7a. Partial success with my "starving" dog
Posted by: "qsgirl916" qsgirl916@yahoo.com qsgirl916
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 10:40 am ((PDT))

Well, with all your encouragement, I stayed strong!

Friday and Saturday, Fern was still snubbing the raw food. Despite the
fact that by Saturday night she was begging for food, she still ignored
the chicken when I put it down.

Last night, I tried searing the chicken. She was super excited when I
carried her food out to her, and she licked the chicken like crazy.
When all was said and done, she ate half of it.

I'm pretty pleased with that, and I'm hoping that tonight will be at
least as successful.

Thanks for encouraging me to stay strong!

I'll let you know how it goes tonight!

Sarah

Messages in this topic (2)
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7b. Re: Partial success with my "starving" dog
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 11:28 am ((PDT))

That's great, Sarah! Hopefully she'll continue being enthusiastic
about the food and you can slowly start searing less and less each
time. I think for the most part people who had to use bribes like
searing and parmesan cheese don't have to use them for too long before
the dog is fine eating food as is. Hope you gave Fern lots and lots of
praise and had a good party for yourself. Good job!

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "qsgirl916" <qsgirl916@...> wrote:

> Last night, I tried searing the chicken. She was super excited when
> I carried her food out to her, and she licked the chicken like
> crazy. When all was said and done, she ate half of it.

Messages in this topic (2)
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8a. Largemouth Bass Heads and Misc. ?'s
Posted by: "larsen_biology" larsen_biology@yahoo.com larsen_biology
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 10:59 am ((PDT))

My husband went to a very rural lake and caught a limit of largemouth
bass. This time he brought them home packed on ice and waited
approximately 24 hours to clean them.

I kept the heads and tossed them in the chest freezer for the dogs-
two of which will eat fish, one of which just wants to roll in it!
Picky little thing that she is! How long should the bass heads be
frozen before being considered safe to eat?

While we were cleaning the fish the dogs ate a few small pieces of
the meat and liver that dropped... Since these small parts hadn't
been frozen should I be concerned about the dogs getting any
parasites?

Also, is there any reason not to feed Sacramento Pike Minnow?
Apparently this lake is swarming with them- some are very large. My
DH has offered to save them for the dogs if they are an acceptable
protein source.

Thanks for you help,
Heather & the labradors

Messages in this topic (2)
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8b. Re: Largemouth Bass Heads and Misc. ?'s
Posted by: "k9dine" k9dine@yahoo.com k9dine
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 12:24 pm ((PDT))

I don't know exactly where you are/the fish-source lake is, but in my
state (Wisconsin) there is information on the Department of Natural
Resources page on known contaminant levels in various lakes in the
state, and which contaminant levels are high where. In the off-
chance you were in California I did a google search for "california
lake contamination" (without quotes) and the 6th link was

http://www.oehha.ca.gov/fish/general/99fish.html - the Office of
Environmental Health Hazard Assessment website that listed
information on the eating of fish and which parts are less healthy
than others, as well as a link to Site-Specific Advisory
Information. That kind of information can let you know about lead,
mercury, and other heavy metal and organic toxin levels in various
lakes if the lakes have been tested (and being "very rural" doesn't
mean uncontaminated - some areas may have high levels of arsenic or
lead or whatever else in the soil naturally).

In general, the larger the fish (the higher in the food chain) the
greater concentration of contaminants like lead, mercury, arsenic,
organophosphates, etc., so the suggestions given for people will
likely be true for pets. Don't eat/feed too much fish from lakes
that have more contaminants and maybe restrict the consumption of
livers and fatty tissue for larger fish since those portions may have
higher levels of chemicals that may be toxic in large amounts.

I know that salmonid fish (salmon and trout) carry some seriously
nasty tapeworms that you can get from eating them raw (dozens of feet
long in a human digestive tract when adult! gross!) so I would be
wary of feeding them unfrozen, but I do not know about bass
specifically. Maybe others here will know more. And I've never
heard of the other fish type you mentioned....

Amanda

Messages in this topic (2)
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9. Shedding on raw
Posted by: "kaebruney" kaebruney@yahoo.com kaebruney
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 11:28 am ((PDT))

Someone posted some info sometiem back about the shedding cycles of
dogs on raw...

Can someone help me with that. I tried searching and can't find it.

My dogs are shedding liek the dickens now. My rat terrier is about
8mos and my AmBull is about 3yrs but has been on raw for only 2mos. i
know it's not time for them to change coats as it's not even cold
down here yet and there is no increased shedding from my Scottie.

Anyone have any idea what's going on and what I can do to help
alleviate it? I do give them fish oils in (as per the dosages
recommended here) their diet 2-3 times a week.
Thanks for the help!

Kae

Messages in this topic (1)
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10a. Re: Prepared Raw
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 11:55 am ((PDT))

There's nothing to prepare...buy a chicken, cut into serving sized portions,
hand to dog! Then go on to another protein. Easy!!

Prepared raw diets are not without problems. Not only is ground
inappropriate, they include unnecessary, inappropriate ingredients over
which you have no control, and there was a recall on Bravo raw just a week
or so ago.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Dcaloosa" <Dcaloosa@aol.com>

I am transitioning to raw for my Rotties and am happy with the results
so far, but as yet have not taken the plunge into preparing it
myself.....due to many reasons that may be resolved someday.....like
work, freezer space, etc......but anyway, does anyone have experience
using the top quality prepared raw diets, like Halshan, Bravo, etc? I
am experimenting with them. Please feel free to bombard me with info!

Messages in this topic (6)
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10b. Re: Prepared Raw
Posted by: "raffiangel2" snazgal@aol.com raffiangel2
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 12:23 pm ((PDT))

****MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM AND SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
> "Dcaloosa" <Dcaloosa@> wrote:
> does anyone have experience
> > using the top quality prepared raw diets, like Halshan, Bravo, etc?
I
> > am experimenting with them. Please feel free to bombard me with
info!
> *****
> This list neither recommends or supports commercial prefab food. You
> can take your question to RawChat or private: it is off topic for the
> rawfeeding list and further posts will be redirected.
> Chris O
> Moderation Team
>
I tried it for a while before rescuing my second golden...had way too
many veggies, fruits and 'stuff' in it that I had no control over..and
price wise it was rediculous...for way less money I could and did get
the best cuts of meat and several months supply of great meaty bones...
Raw is so darn easy...my girls see the towels coming out and get
nuts...down goes their bowls, dinner is over in less then 10 minutes.
lThrow towels in washer...done.
RELAX...don't make it more then it is...there is no rocket science to
this...Follow your moderators advice and enjoy the shopping 'game' and
the 'crunch' game....

Messages in this topic (6)
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11.1. Re: New to raw
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Oct 1, 2007 12:15 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Uh, Teri!
Welcome to the raw side! ^_^
My recommendations includes The Lis List, a creative compilation of
ways to source raw, cheaply or for free. You might want to print out
all the suggestions, and highlight those you want to focus on first.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374

post # 141374

These websites are helpful also;
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

Tc and let us know if you have any other Qs!
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I am getting ready to start my 9 month old Bouvier on raw. Can any one
> give me some advice on the best and most economical way/places to buy
> meat. I do have a very large deep freezer for storage.
>

Messages in this topic (43)
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Feed Pets Raw Food

Monday, October 1, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12102

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