[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12114

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
From: Sandee Lee
1b. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
From: Tina Berry
1c. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
From: Carol Dunster
1d. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
From: Gail Edmond
1e. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
From: Gail Edmond
1f. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
From: Gail Edmond

2a. Re: picking out bones
From: Felicia Kost
2b. Re: picking out bones
From: Felicia Kost
2c. Re: picking out bones
From: tottime47
2d. Re: picking out bones
From: Andrea
2e. Re: picking out bones
From: Felicia Kost
2f. Re: picking out bones
From: Tina Berry
2g. Re: picking out bones
From: tottime47

3a. Re: Is my pup too small?
From: Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)

4a. pork neck bones?
From: Heather
4b. Re: pork neck bones?
From: Andrea
4c. Re: pork neck bones?
From: costrowski75

5a. Re: Help! Time for the vet?
From: costrowski75

6a. Re: Feeding Toy breeds
From: Kay Sivel
6b. Re: Feeding Toy breeds
From: tottime47
6c. Re: Feeding Toy breeds
From: Gail Edmond

7a. Re: Diabetic Diet
From: Giselle

8a. Plant Material {previously - Re: Adding on to Supplement Question}
From: Giselle

9a. Re: Broken tooth
From: tottime47

10. feeding Pork
From: skylinefay

Messages
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1a. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 12:21 pm ((PDT))

What exactly are you feeding and for how long?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: <MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com>

> my dog is raw feed, and ifs having a huge bout of yeast. I am at a loss
for
> what I can do to help him. He is licking chewing and crusty in the normal
> areas, ears, feet armpits and inside his back legs. I need suggestions
to
> help clear him up. Is Micro Teck shampoo a good idea? what else can I
do? Lisa

Messages in this topic (26)
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1b. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 12:25 pm ((PDT))

"my dog is raw feed, and ifs having a huge bout of yeast"

How long has be been raw fed? I would use an all natural oatmeal shampoo.
If he hasn't been raw fed that long, could he be having an allergic reaction
to say chicken? Has anything changed recently as far as diet, etc?
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (26)
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1c. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
Posted by: "Carol Dunster" cedunster@centurytel.net carwynst
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 1:05 pm ((PDT))

On Wed, 3 Oct 2007 14:33:52 EDT, you wrote:

>my dog is raw feed, and ifs having a huge bout of yeast.

I'm new here, so I am hoping this is appropriate. I've always both fed
and used yogurt topically for yeast infections in the dogs, it does
wonders to get everything back into balance.
~ Carol
_____________
Carol Dunster
cedunster@centurytel.net

Messages in this topic (26)
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1d. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
Posted by: "Gail Edmond" windybond1@yahoo.co.uk windybond1
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 3:07 pm ((PDT))

Sorry but what do you mean as trim.

----- Original Message ----
From: Gail Edmond <windybond1@yahoo.co.uk>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October, 2007 6:08:28 PM
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner

***EDITED BY MODERATOR. PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

Put beef down i got from the butchers, untouched so i will take it up and try in a couple of hours. Then again in the morning and wont offer anything else.

Thanks for advice

Gail

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Messages in this topic (26)
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1e. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
Posted by: "Gail Edmond" windybond1@yahoo.co.uk windybond1
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 3:07 pm ((PDT))

Thanks for the reply i am learning lots and lots just trying to do the best for my two but feel as if they wont eat it i am doing something wrong.

Gail

----- Original Message ----
From: tottime47 <tottime@aol.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October, 2007 7:00:05 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner

Hi Gail,

Sometimes the dogs don't realize it's real food.
Some good ways of getting them going is to slice small ribboned areas
into the meat so they can get a gripe on it. You could also cut off a
couple of bites for them first and offer that. Some sear it quickly on
the outside to warm it up and others put it in a zip lock bag and warm
in water.
You could also try smearing some cheese down into slits in the meat.

Hope this helps some and good luck!

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogro ups.com, Gail Edmond <windybond1@ ...> wrote:

> Put beef down i got from the butchers, untouched so i will take it up
and try in a couple of hours. Then again in the morning and wont offer
anything else.
>
> Thanks for advice
>
> Gail
>

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Messages in this topic (26)
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1f. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
Posted by: "Gail Edmond" windybond1@yahoo.co.uk windybond1
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 3:07 pm ((PDT))

Sorry to sound so ignorant on this but am i doing wrong got a bag of bits from the butchers mostly beef with lots of fat so it looked yuk to me so boiled slowly for a couple of hours to get rid of the fat whats left was loads of good looking beef to me but still down on the kitchen floor untouched.

Trying to learn what is best. They are so skinny though and i worry about my two babies.

Gail

----- Original Message ----
From: tottime47 <tottime@aol.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October, 2007 7:00:05 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner

Hi Gail,

Sometimes the dogs don't realize it's real food.
Some good ways of getting them going is to slice small ribboned areas
into the meat so they can get a gripe on it. You could also cut off a
couple of bites for them first and offer that. Some sear it quickly on
the outside to warm it up and others put it in a zip lock bag and warm
in water.
You could also try smearing some cheese down into slits in the meat.

Hope this helps some and good luck!

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogro ups.com, Gail Edmond <windybond1@ ...> wrote:

> Put beef down i got from the butchers, untouched so i will take it up
and try in a couple of hours. Then again in the morning and wont offer
anything else.
>
> Thanks for advice
>
> Gail
>

___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it
now.
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (26)
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2a. Re: picking out bones
Posted by: "Felicia Kost" saphiradane@yahoo.com saphiradane
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 12:25 pm ((PDT))

Well, I thought maybe she was just full. But this is a normal amount for her and she hasn't ate any meat to speak of for almost 5 days, just the bones she picks out. Felicia
"

So she ate 4 lbs in one meal? Maybe she's just full. If mine eat 4-5 lbs
one meal, they get very little the next day or two. Depends on the dog.
Mine average eating 1.5 - 2.5 lbs daily.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (11)
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2b. Re: picking out bones
Posted by: "Felicia Kost" saphiradane@yahoo.com saphiradane
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 12:25 pm ((PDT))

Yes, whats left is just mostly the chicken meat. She gets variety, before the 4lb chicken was boneless beef. They also get fish, pork, turkey and a little lamb. Don't think variety is the issue. Other suggestions? Felicia

: When she picks out the bones do you offer the meat pile at the next
meal? If she's been eating chicken a la chicken for six months she
might just be sick of it, time to move on to pork? Aside from being
important in a raw diet, variety is the spice of life, you know

Andrea

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Messages in this topic (11)
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2c. Re: picking out bones
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 1:10 pm ((PDT))

Hi Felicia,

How's her stools? Are they showing signs of too much bone?

Do you have other dogs and are they eating OK?

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Felicia Kost <saphiradane@...> wrote:

> Well, I thought maybe she was just full. But this is a normal amount
for her and she hasn't ate any meat to speak of for almost 5 days, just
the bones she picks out. Felicia

Messages in this topic (11)
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2d. Re: picking out bones
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 1:14 pm ((PDT))

Ok, I thought I misunderstood that part. I'd just offer the deboned
chicken next meal. If you partially freeze it first it might help,
maybe she just likes some crunch.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Felicia Kost <saphiradane@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, whats left is just mostly the chicken meat. She gets variety,
before the 4lb chicken was boneless beef. They also get fish, pork,
turkey and a little lamb. Don't think variety is the issue. Other
suggestions? Felicia

Messages in this topic (11)
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2e. Re: picking out bones
Posted by: "Felicia Kost" saphiradane@yahoo.com saphiradane
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 1:33 pm ((PDT))

Hello, other dog and cat eat all about the same, different portions of course they all seem fine. The dane- hard to tell about her stools she plays outside alot, but I haven't noticed them being hard of her struggling. Felicia

How's her stools? Are they showing signs of too much bone?

Do you have other dogs and are they eating OK?

Carol, Charkee & Moli

---

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Messages in this topic (11)
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2f. Re: picking out bones
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 1:33 pm ((PDT))

"If you partially freeze it first it might help, maybe she just likes some
crunch."

Maybe she just has the ol' EWWWW factor (like some do with unthawed liver) I
agree on try to offer her frozen meat w/no bone and see what she does.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (11)
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2g. Re: picking out bones
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 3:09 pm ((PDT))

Hi Felicia,

Since her stools seem fine, I guess I'd throw my vote in with what
Andrea said and try the frozen meat.

Carol

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Felicia Kost <saphiradane@...> wrote:
>
> Hello, other dog and cat eat all about the same, different portions
of course they all seem fine. The dane- hard to tell about her stools
she plays outside alot, but I haven't noticed them being hard of her
struggling. Felicia

Messages in this topic (11)
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3a. Re: Is my pup too small?
Posted by: "Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)" carolyn.garnaas@siemens.com carolyn.garnaas
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 12:26 pm ((PDT))

My six-pound Toy Poodle, Molly Anne Malolly, has been eating raw food
since the day I brought her home from the breeder, four years ago this
month. She eats just what the big dogs eat, but smaller amounts. Don't
give the tiny dogs real cold food - it drastically lowers their body
temp and can result in convulsions. Otherwise, they can get just what
the big dogs get.

Since she eats indoors, she doesn't get the really fun stuff like whole
deer carcasses, goat heads or fur-on bunnies. She likes chicken best,
all parts, but will also eat lamb, beef, pork, and the rest of the
birdies - ostrich (when I get it), turkey, game hen, quail, duck. OH -
her new favorite dinner is green tripe. She flips over it!

For years she would not eat raw liver, but recently I found a way to get
some liver into her little belly. I pureed a bunch of chicken livers and
mixed them in with some green tripe. DELISH! She snarfed it up and
demanded more immediately.

Carolyn J. Garnaas and Molly Toy Poodle, Who Does Cartwheels Over Tripe
With Liver!

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Messages in this topic (4)
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4a. pork neck bones?
Posted by: "Heather" hpav061378@yahoo.com hpav061378
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 12:54 pm ((PDT))

Are these ok to feed? I got some at my commisary for cheap and was
just wondering if the dogs can eat them if not we will use them for
soup so not a total waste. thanks Heather

Messages in this topic (3)
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4b. Re: pork neck bones?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 1:14 pm ((PDT))

I have a Mexican market in my area that sells large fairly meaty pork
necks that I feed. They are about a foot long and have an L shape. I
usually add meat to the meal because even the meatiest pork necks don't
have that much meat. Grocery stores sell the necks cut up into 2"
slices which are too small for my dogs.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Heather" <hpav061378@...> wrote:
>
> Are these ok to feed? I got some at my commisary for cheap and was
> just wondering if the dogs can eat them if not we will use them for
> soup so not a total waste. thanks Heather
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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4c. Re: pork neck bones?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 1:25 pm ((PDT))

"Heather" <hpav061378@...> wrote:
>
> Are these ok to feed?
*****
An easy automatic and almost always correct answer is "no"...

I got some at my commisary for cheap
*****
...especially if they sold for human use.

we will use them for
> soup so not a total waste.
*****
They are meant for soups, stock and sometimes even barbecue. For
humans. For dogs, you want to feed bigger bones with lots more meat on
them.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. Re: Help! Time for the vet?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 1:15 pm ((PDT))

"Tina Berry" <k9baron@...> wrote:
>
> And IMO I would get more than one opinion, 2-3 depending on what the
first
> one says.
*****
Yes indeedy.
One vet may see neurological issues, the other may see a stuck bone.
Another may see liver or pancreas. It's scary sometimes how many
diagnoses one sick puppy can accumulate.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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6a. Re: Feeding Toy breeds
Posted by: "Kay Sivel" kaynine228@yahoo.com kaynine228
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 1:31 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

I have a 7 lb, 6 month old Chinese Crested, and she's eating chicken
necks, leg quarters - eating almost all the bone, she devours rabbit
parts whole, just cut down to the amount I want her to eat. No
problem! They may be small - but they're mighty!

> >
> > I was wondering if feeding my Silky Terriers (ranging from 10 lbs
to
> > 13 lbs) a whole chicken neck as part of their diet would be
> > appropriate. This would be in conjunction with meaty meals, I
> > wouldn't expect that to provide the meat in their meals.
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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6b. Re: Feeding Toy breeds
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 1:32 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

Hi Carol,

Sounds like you have a pretty good source. Wish I could find pasture
raised chickens here!

I have 2 small dogs and that is mostly the same bones mine can eat by
themselves. Most of the other bones (goat, lamb, etc) get knawed at
and not really eaten.....to hard......

When they get older they don't need as much bone anyway so I don't
worry too much about it.....

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Carol Dunster <cedunster@...> wrote
>
> I was wondering if feeding my Silky Terriers (ranging from 10 lbs to
> 13 lbs) a whole chicken neck as part of their diet would be
> appropriate. This would be in conjunction with meaty meals,
Three of them are
> elderly and one of them is middle aged. Anyway, I was thinking,
since
> they handled the chicken necks easily and I can get them in bulk
> (though not very cheaply) from someone that raises them as pastured
> poultry, that they might make a useful choice for some of their
bone.
> Any comments?
> ~ Carol
> _____________
> Carol Dunster
> cedunster@...
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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6c. Re: Feeding Toy breeds
Posted by: "Gail Edmond" windybond1@yahoo.co.uk windybond1
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 3:07 pm ((PDT))

Necks are supposed to be great tooth brushes

Gail

----- Original Message ----
From: Carol Dunster <cedunster@centurytel.net>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October, 2007 5:46:38 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Feeding Toy breeds

I was wondering if feeding my Silky Terriers (ranging from 10 lbs to
13 lbs) a whole chicken neck as part of their diet would be
appropriate. This would be in conjunction with meaty meals, I wouldn't
expect that to provide the meat in their meals. Last year I was giving
them half chicken necks at times with their other meals and they
handled the process of eating them just fine - no choking or other
problems. I wasn't feeding a raw diet at the time and want to fully
switch over as soon as I can get what I need to do so. (We live 30
miles from any grocery store at all and don't shop often.)

They have also been getting organ meat (mostly liver) as supplements
and raw egg. I can see I've been giving them a bit too much liver and
have cut that back. They only rarely have any sort of digestive
troubles, I think they have cast iron stomachs. :)

I'm sure they will switch over without a qualm. Three of them are
elderly and one of them is middle aged. Anyway, I was thinking, since
they handled the chicken necks easily and I can get them in bulk
(though not very cheaply) from someone that raises them as pastured
poultry, that they might make a useful choice for some of their bone.
Any comments?
~ Carol
____________ _
Carol Dunster
cedunster@centuryte l.net

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Messages in this topic (5)
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7a. Re: Diabetic Diet
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 1:37 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Donna!
You might need to adjust mealtimes, tweak his diet a little
or feed more frequently, but you definitely should continue to feed raw!

What 'flavor' of raw are you feeding now, what exactly do you feed,
when, how much?

Tell us more about your dog!

Is the vet recommending insulin injections, or diet control?

Here's a couple good links for info;
http://www.pgaa.com/canine/health/diabetes.html
http://www.bddiabetes.com/us/main.aspx?cat=1&id=384

As you can see, the diet recommendations are for higher protein, lower
fat, no carbohydrates.
The purpose of the recommendations for more fiber in the diet is to
restrict the absorption of carbs, which your dog doesn't get in a raw
diet, anyway, so no need for adding it.
Bone serves the purpose of 'fiber' in a carnivore's diet, so he's
getting what he needs anyway.
Feeding whole prey could add more, in the form of skin and fur and
organ variety, if you can get it, and your dog will eat it.
http://www.prey4pets.com/servlet/StoreFront

http://www.hare-today.com/index.php?cPath=23

http://www.rodentpro.com/products.asp

Raw already has a good amount of bioavailable protein in it, so no
need to worry about adding more.

You can feed more lean meats, either trimming visible fat and/or
feeding leaner meat more often, such as heart, rabbit, venison, etc.
Restrict or avoid feeding fattier cuts, such as tongue, beef or pork
ribs, breast of lamb, etc.
Feeding raw sweetbreads; the thymus or pancreas of animals, could also
enhance his health, if you can obtain them.

Feeding less fatty meats can also help you to take some weight off
him, if he's a little 'fluffy'.
Leaner dogs are healthier dogs. This will reduce the amount of insulin
he needs overall.
Feeding smaller meals, well spaced throughout the day, especially just
before an insulin injection is important.

TC and let us know if you have any more questions!
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> My 9 year old Rottie/Lab was diagnosed tonight with being a
diabetic. The
> vet wants to put him on a prescription diet. I don't want to do
that. Can he
> be on a raw diet? What can he eat?
>
>
> ~Donna~

Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. Plant Material {previously - Re: Adding on to Supplement Question}
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 2:38 pm ((PDT))

I vote for the sock.

I have no time for closed minds or people trying to sell me a bill of
goods to make a buck.

And I've never felt any need to justify what I feed to my dogs, or why!

But, if they're curious, and open minded..... doG, I love this list!

I'm a free spirit, I am. ROFLOL

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> "aliciamyan" <alicia_larson@> wrote:
> I did more research on the
> > internet: "zoo+wolf+diet". I am prepared if the same clerk is
there and approaches the subject of raw again.

<snip>

> But it's a fruitless battle in most cases anyway. I think saying you
> feed a species appropriate diet is plenty good. You could also tell
the guy to put a sock in it.
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (16)
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9a. Re: Broken tooth
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 3:07 pm ((PDT))

Hi Monica,

I can understand the expense part,just had a dog who had one pulled!

On the other hand, if you wait, since it's deep and he chews on that
side, it might wind up getting infected and then you'd probably have
added expenses and it might be harder on your dog....

Maybe you could work something out with the vet to pay a little at a
time?

Good luck either way you decide!

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Monica" <mommyof2gals@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all. My Loki (4yr old Kees) just did his annual vet check and
has a
> broken molar. It's cut down pretty deep but doesn't bother him

> My question is this: should I be concerned about him further
damaging the
> tooth by gnawing on his everyday, mealtime bones as this is the
side he
> normally chews on or should I just take a watch and see attitude.
I'm sure
> the bill to pull the tooth will be enormous so I want to put it off
as long
> as possible!
>
> Opinions?

> Thanks!
> Monica in IL

Messages in this topic (12)
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10. feeding Pork
Posted by: "skylinefay" skylinefay@aol.com skylinefay
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 3:07 pm ((PDT))

Hello,

I had someone ask me if when feeding pork it should be frozen first?
Is this true?

Thank you,
Tonilyn

Messages in this topic (1)
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