Feed Pets Raw Food: [rawfeeding] Digest Number 12124

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: NEED ADVICE - BOWEL DISTRESS
From: Andrea
1b. Re: NEED ADVICE - BOWEL DISTRESS
From: carnesbill

2a. Re: Pork neck whole?
From: Andrea
2b. Re: Pork neck whole?
From: costrowski75

3a. Re: Time Limit? (MEREDITH)
From: carnesbill
3b. Re: Time Limit? (MEREDITH)
From: Andrea
3c. Re: Time Limit? (MEREDITH)
From: Meredith Soriano
3d. Re: Time Limit? (MEREDITH)
From: carnesbill

4a. Re: Diabetic Diet
From: bonniepunch

5a. Re: Is This Natuutal? (MEREDITH)
From: Andrea
5b. Re: Is This Natuutal? (MEREDITH)
From: carnesbill
5c. Re: Is This Natuutal? (MEREDITH)
From: Meredith Soriano

6a. Re: Enhanced meat
From: Andrea
6b. Re: Enhanced meat
From: Laurie Swanson
6c. Re: Enhanced meat
From: costrowski75
6d. Re: Enhanced meat
From: carnesbill

7a. Re: BOWEL DISTRESS - ONE MORE QUESTION
From: carnesbill

8a. Re: My update
From: Andrea

9a. Re: Fresh Pork? Safe?
From: Andrea

10a. List on Freecycle
From: carolejc2007
10b. Re: List on Freecycle
From: john payne

11a. Re: Newbie predator question
From: cleone4100@aol.com

12.1. Re: Fasting
From: Roseann

13a. Re: quarters turn into thighs and drumsticks
From: Roseann

14a. Re: internal organs for dalmatians
From: T Smith

Messages
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1a. Re: NEED ADVICE - BOWEL DISTRESS
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 6:46 am ((PDT))

It sounds like you went a little too fast with variety here. You've
only been feeding raw for two weeks and already you have introduced
chicken, turkey, beef, egg, and organs. Take a step back and go
slower this time. Go back to chicken, and keep with just chicken
until her stomach settles down. Then slowly introduce turkey by
adding it to a chicken meal. Don't add any organs until you are sure
that she is digesting well, and even then go very slowly. At first
just give tiny bits of organ and then work up to smaller bits.

Molly will be fine, her digestive system probably just said "That's
it, I can't take one more new thing!" Fast her for a day, offer
plenty of water, and when you feed her again give her some bone in
chicken breast. Hope she feels better today.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "miensasis" <kpmnlm@...> wrote:

> I have given them the following meals, all weighing between 8 and 9
> oz (my wheatens are 30 lbs and on the thin side)...
>
> **boneless chicken breast, two chicken kidneys, one chicken
drumstick
>
> **turkey breast with skin & some bone, egg with some crushed shell,
> and small turkey liver
>
> **beef chunks with about 1 oz of been liver (no bone in this meal)

Messages in this topic (3)
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1b. Re: NEED ADVICE - BOWEL DISTRESS
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 7:33 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "miensasis" <kpmnlm@...> wrote:
>
> I have given them the following meals,
> all weighing between 8 and 9 oz (my wheatens are 30 lbs and on the
> thin side)...
>
> **boneless chicken breast, two chicken kidneys, one
> chicken drumstick
>
> **turkey breast with skin & some bone, egg with some
> crushed shell,
> and small turkey liver
>
> **beef chunks with about 1 oz of been liver (no bone in this meal)
>
> The meal Molly at yesterday morning was the beef meal. I have fed
> that once before without incident. All meats are either
> organic or
> naturally raised.
>

I also think you went too fast. I suggest you fast her for a day,
then feed her nothing but chicken for 2 weeks. Be sure there is
plenty of bone in the chicken.

After 2 weeks add some turkey meals a couple of times that week. A
week later add a pork meal or 2. A week later, try beef again. A
week later try some fish.

Be sure she is getting plenty of bone and don't feed any organs for
at least a month and waiting two months wouldn't hurt anything.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: Pork neck whole?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 6:49 am ((PDT))

Yeah, sounds like you need to go even bigger. If the dog can fit the
food into his mouth enough to try and swallow it, it isn't big enough.
Pork shoulder and boston butt roast usually make up at least one meaty
meal before they get to the bone inside (is there a bone in boston
butt?). I'm not lucky enough to find beef roasts for cheap, so my beef
meaty meat is usually whole hearts or tongues.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Cdandp2@... wrote:

> The incidents I referred to was his swallowing a huge chunk of soft
> meat and freezing in his tracks, not being able to breathe, and
> looking panicked. One time he got it down. The other he coughed
> it up (as I was lifting him to run to the ER). Then I started
> cutting.

Messages in this topic (9)
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2b. Re: Pork neck whole?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 9:16 am ((PDT))

Cdandp2@... wrote:
>> Regarding the website you sent, though. It brings me to a list of
sites.
> Which one would I select to find the pictures you referred to?
*****
Oh my dog.
I sent you to the wrong place. I am very sorry.
Howsabout THIS one:

http://rawfeddogs.net

I gave you COM; it should have been NET.
Stupid me.

So. Once you get to rawfeddogs.NET, click on "recipes" from the list
that runs down the left side of the page; then once you are at recipes
scroll down to "pork neck bone".

While you're there you can check out other "recipes".
Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
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3a. Re: Time Limit? (MEREDITH)
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 7:32 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Meredith" <mom2mytwinz@...>
wrote:
>
> How long should I wait for my toy dog to eat this chicken?

Until she figures it out.

> Is there a time Limit?

> Can she get salmonella poisoning afer an hour or 2

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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3b. Re: Time Limit? (MEREDITH)
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 7:32 am ((PDT))

As in, how long does she get to start eating, or how long does she get
to finish? With newbie dogs I let them contemplate the food for about
20 min max before picking it up and putting it away. Once they start
eating, I don't take it away until they walk away from it. Sometimes
that is about 20 minutes, sometimes a lot longer. Recently Geiger has
taken to curling up next to his food and waiting until Tycho is
finished eating before he starts eating his own.

Dogs have a short digestive tract and seriously strong stomach acids
that help keep them from getting overrun by bacteria, so you don't need
to worry about that. Even if she buries some chicken outside and
doesn't come back to it for a week.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Meredith" <mom2mytwinz@...> wrote:
>
> How long should I wait for my toy dog to eat this chicken? Is there a
> time Limit? Can she get salmonella poisoning afer an hour or 2

Messages in this topic (5)
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3c. Re: Time Limit? (MEREDITH)
Posted by: "Meredith Soriano" mom2mytwinz@yahoo.com mom2mytwinz
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 8:11 am ((PDT))

Well....I put the little thigh out fof her, but she really just carried it around from room to room. This morning I tried beef (steak) and I cut it in slices for her....she ate it so fast, I think she likes it better than chicken. is that ok?

Andrea <poketmouse45@yahoo.com> wrote: As in, how long does she get to start eating, or how long does she get
to finish? With newbie dogs I let them contemplate the food for about
20 min max before picking it up and putting it away. Once they start
eating, I don't take it away until they walk away from it. Sometimes
that is about 20 minutes, sometimes a lot longer. Recently Geiger has
taken to curling up next to his food and waiting until Tycho is
finished eating before he starts eating his own.

Andrea

"The purity of a person's heart can be quickly measured by how they regard animals"

Meredith

---------------------------------
Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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3d. Re: Time Limit? (MEREDITH)
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 9:32 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Meredith Soriano <mom2mytwinz@...>
wrote:
>
> Well....I put the little thigh out fof her, but she really
> just carried it around from room to room. This morning I tried
> beef (steak) and I cut it in slices for her....she ate it so fast,
> I think she likes it better than chicken. is that ok?

Yes, no, and maybe. There is one problem and the posibility of a
second problem. Let's do the second problem first. Beef is a richer
food, therefore a little more difficult to digest. Beef can and
sometimes does cause digestive upset if fed too early in the diet.
Your pup MAY get diarrhea from it. Maybe she won't.

The other problem is that you are teaching her something you don't
want her to learn. What you are teaching her is "If I hold out, I
will get something better". Therefore you are creating a picky
eater.

My dogs eat what I put down or they don't eat. After 10 minutes of no
interest, I pick up the food until next meal. No between mean treats
or snacks. Next meal, the same thing is brought out again. This
happens over and over until that particular food is eaten.

I am the one who decides what is in my dog's diet, not them. If it
were me, I'd go back to the chicken and keep giving the same piece
until it's eaten. If she is not eating on it in 10 minutes, take it
up for next meal.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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4a. Re: Diabetic Diet
Posted by: "bonniepunch" bonniepunch@gmail.com bonniepunch
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 7:32 am ((PDT))

> BP, this is not typical that the blood glucose levels would elevate
> with rawfeeding ... typically one should be on the lookout for
> decreased sugar levels and the possibility of too much insulin
> (hypo'ing which is insulin shock) when pulling all the carbs out of the
> diet. Perhaps in your case you were experiencing a rebound affect.

I agree - it is not typical, but it does happen on rare occasions, so
one does need to watch for it (particularly if giving insulin). It
happened to a couple of other diabetics I know of, when they
switched to raw. They did what I did, backed off and made the
transition slowly instead of 'cold turkey' and they were fine.

> I, too, have a diabetic cat, and rawfeeding her saved her life! She has
> now been diabetic for 5 years and is healthy and beautiful. I test her
> blood sugar levels myself twice a day before she gets her insulin ...
> her average blood sugar level is 145 now, often going a couple of days
> in the normal range and needing no insulin at all!

Wonderful! Go pancreas, go! I love to hear of people whose pets have
been diabetic for so long - it makes me so much less anxious for my
beastie-boy :-) 145 is a great number on insulin. I am unusually lucky
that my cat has gone into complete remission with a raw diet and
hasn't given me a BG over 100 since May. Maybe it was because he
wasn't very old and we caught before it had time to do any real damage
(he was 11), or maybe we were just lucky! I wish more people with
diabetics would consider raw. Even those who understand the carb
connection will still feed crap in a can - they claim it's ok because
it has 'only 7% carbs'.

> this has my anti-rawfeeding vet
> absolutely confused! It is against everything he was ever taught ... 5
> years ago he said that rawfeeding would kill her ... oops!

Hehe - my vet is struggling too. She insisted I feed the Purina
diabetic diet, even though it contained corn, which was a known
allergin for my cat. At the 6 month follow-up, she was very unhappy to
find I had switched to a raw diet, and warned me I was going to make
my cat sick (salmonella, nutritional deficiencies, the usual...). We
go for the 1 year follow-up in a couple of weeks, and she's likely to
fall over in a faint when she sees my cat. BGs consistently in the
60-80 range with no insulin needed, a weight gain of two pounds, a
flaky skin problem that has cleared up and as much energy as my 18
month old cat. Looks very sick indeed :-)

Messages in this topic (7)
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5a. Re: Is This Natuutal? (MEREDITH)
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 7:32 am ((PDT))

Don't cut it into pieces, but you can cut ribbons into the meat so she
has something to get a hold of. As her jaw gets stronger she won't
have a problem tearing into her food, but for now this gives her a good
starting point. If it bothers you that she carries her food around,
give her a certain place to eat, on a towel, vinyl tablecloth, her
bed. If she starts to take the food off of her area, just put the food
back where it should be. They get it really fast and it is super cute
to see dogs sprint to their eating place when they know you are about
to feed them.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Meredith" <mom2mytwinz@...> wrote:
>
> I watched my 6 pounder (Toy Chi -Poo) eat raw chiken, she seemed to
> have liked it, but I noticed she didn't really eat it, it was more
> so, inspecting,smelling,and licking. Would it be better if I cut the
> raw meat into pieces? Because she carries it everytwhere?

Messages in this topic (4)
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5b. Re: Is This Natuutal? (MEREDITH)
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 7:32 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Meredith" <mom2mytwinz@...> wrote:
>
> Would it be better if I cut the raw
> meat into pieces? Because she carries it everytwhere?

Are you saying she is carrying the whole chicken around? I think for
a dog that size, I would cut it into whole pieces like legs, thighs,
wings, etc. Obviously she hasn't figured out this is food at this
point. Give her a little time. She will figure it out.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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5c. Re: Is This Natuutal? (MEREDITH)
Posted by: "Meredith Soriano" mom2mytwinz@yahoo.com mom2mytwinz
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 8:10 am ((PDT))

yes, I'm saying she carries the WHOLE thigh around the house....=]

carnesbill <carnesw@bellsouth.net> wrote: --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Meredith" <mom2mytwinz@...> wrote:
>
> Would it be better if I cut the raw
> meat into pieces? Because she carries it everytwhere?

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

"The purity of a person's heart can be quickly measured by how they regard animals"

Meredith

---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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6a. Re: Enhanced meat
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 7:33 am ((PDT))

So far I haven't had a problem with my dogs eating stuff with saline
solution injected, only if it is injected with "flavorings". I would
rather not feed the extra salt, but if it comes down to either pork
with saline or no pork, I choose pork. If your dog tolerates it well
it's fine.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "iumadness64" <iumadness64@...>
wrote:
>
> It seems that all the different meat in the grocery store says it is
> enhanced with a certain percentage of saline solution...except the
> chicken. Is this normal and acceptable? Today I found a pork
> shoulder, pork ribs, and turkey...all enhanced with a saline
> solution.

Messages in this topic (6)
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6b. Re: Enhanced meat
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 8:27 am ((PDT))

I don't know if it's normal--we seem to have a decent amount of
unenhanced meat in Seattle, but I am working my way through a couple
big orders of meat through the local buying co-op so I haven't been
shopping the stores as much lately. I don't think it's acceptable,
myself--I'm sick of all our food being messed with. Our dogs don't
need added salt and other flavorings/chemicals (well, neither do we, of
course). I hope you'll make your opinion known at the stores and you
might try asking the manager or meat dept. at any of the stores if they
can special order you something else, maybe by the case. Just a
thought.

Laurie

Messages in this topic (6)
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6c. Re: Enhanced meat
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 8:56 am ((PDT))

"iumadness64" <iumadness64@...> wrote:
>
> It seems that all the different meat in the grocery store says it is
> enhanced with a certain percentage of saline solution...except the
> chicken. Is this normal and acceptable?
*****
It's quite common though IMO not at all normal and not acceptable. It
probably isn't harmful to most dogs, but like all the other "probably
not harmful" stuff the food industry uses, I'd rather not, thank you
very much.

I recommend you continue to shop around; not every pork part from every
brand is enhanced. Here in Sacramento, most pork from cheapie bigbox
stores is enhanced AND the chicken is as well. So I buy pork and
chicken from the more expensive stores (it helps to know the pricing
structure in your area) when they're on sale and generally skip both
the bigbox stores (although Costco appears to carry enhanced meatrs)
and the high end supermarkets. Finding a meat wholesaler might help.

The only regulation I know regarding butchered meat is that scrap--any
scrap, any critter--cannot be sold except to the original customer.
However, you can make under the table and out the back door deals for
scraps that never show up on anyone's books--if the butcher trusts
you. And that may take some time. You can also make upfront deals
with the original customer if you have access to that info. I have
always been able to get whatever pork or beef scraps I want (ay,
there's the rub, most of the scrap is crap) just for the asking.

Perhaps what you have to do is broaden your horizons to the Chicago
area and Indianapolis. You might also consider local farms.

I think it's much harder to avoid enhanced foods but if you want to
(and not everyone does) you can.

Good luck.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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6d. Re: Enhanced meat
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 9:32 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "iumadness64" <iumadness64@...>
wrote:

> Is this normal and acceptable?

I don't give enhancements a second thought. Saline solution is
harmless. When you or your dog is dehydrated at the hospital, they
inject saline solution into you. Your body and your dog's body is
75% saline solution anyway. Excess salt is immediately filtered out
by the kidneys.

To me, this enhancement controversy is a lot of sound and fury over
nothing. Hundreds of millions of people eat enhanced meats every
day with no harm.

> I have talked with the butchers in the local area, and they
> tell me I
> can't get the parts (scrap) due to USDA regulations.

Thats not true. THey can sell or give you all the scraps they want
to. What the USDA regulations forbid is giving or selling out of
date meat.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (6)
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7a. Re: BOWEL DISTRESS - ONE MORE QUESTION
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 7:33 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "miensasis" <kpmnlm@...> wrote:
>
> I did not feed her this morning, but am unsure when the
> time comes how to reintroduce her to food without upsetting
> her system
> any more.

Feed her a piece of chicken ... leg, thigh, quarter, or back.

> Do I feed meat only?

No, bone is a constipator. You want to feed bone.

> Do I feed less?

Yes

> In the old days the
> vet always told me to give boiled rice and boiled ground beef....but
> obviously this isn't an option anymore.

True

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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8a. Re: My update
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 7:33 am ((PDT))

I'm glad things are going well, Trina, and that your dogs have more
energy. Don't be too hard on yourself for not getting the
poo "right". It's hard not to overreact when you see a dry crumbly poo
and add organ to the next meal. You'll get the hang of things and just
remember that the poo that comes out is a reflection of what went in,
it won't be the same every day.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:

> I'm still screwing up on their food because they go from good poo
> to runs, but one of these days I'll get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Messages in this topic (2)
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9a. Re: Fresh Pork? Safe?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 7:34 am ((PDT))

Unless you live in the same town as the plant that supplies the
supermarket pork, it was frozen while it was transported and that would
have killed any worms in the meat. Not that I wouldn't shun
supermarket pork for wild game if I had the chance. Although wild game
is much more likely to carry parasites than supermarket pork.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Tina Berry" <k9baron@...> wrote:

> True. It was store bought pork roast; and they were tapeworms.
> I'll just stick to venison, turkey, chicken in that order ;-)

Messages in this topic (13)
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10a. List on Freecycle
Posted by: "carolejc2007" mooska2me@sbcglobal.net carolejc2007
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 8:27 am ((PDT))

Okay, I have read here several times that a good place to score meat
was place an ad on Freecycle and/or Craigslist and ask for freezer
burned meat and meat scrap from hunters. I placed an ad this
morning and immediately received a response from someone who advised
me as follows:

"Please consider the following: -strangers can be evil. You just
never know if a stranger has added poison, antifreeze, or other
harmful things to your pet's possible food. Saving dollars is not
worth the life of your pet. Please just wait for really great sales
or find a cheaper, natural alternative to BARF."

Well, I wrote her back and asked if she or any one she knows
personally had this experience. She wrote back quite put out
telling me basically to put my dog's life at risk if I wanted to but
it would be too late when the dog was dead.

So, what I would like to know is; has ANYONE here has had a bad
experience in getting meat this way.

I am aware there are all kinds of people walking around in this
world but I think basically people are decent and that something
adverse happening would be quite remote. I'm just kind of gun shy
about the whole thing now and would like some experiences. Thanks!

Carole (Mom of 2 Greyhounds and 2 Italian Greys)

Messages in this topic (2)
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10b. Re: List on Freecycle
Posted by: "john payne" brendajohn2823@yahoo.com brendajohn2823
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 9:31 am ((PDT))

I have posted on freecycle and craigslist for freezer burnt meat, fish and venison for over a year. I have NEVER gotten anything bad at all. In fact we just picked a good haul up last night. I always meet the people and chat for a few minutes about my dogs and everytime the people are very interested in raw diet. in fact ive personally converted 4 people this way. If I ever felt uncomfortable with the people, or the looks of the house etc, i would personally take the meat and pitch it when i get home.you have to remember you have these peoples names, and address's so i think it would be stupid for anyone to try to give you poisoned meat. chances are you're going to get more then one package, so if ones poisoned, then you have others as evidence. I have repeat people that email me every couple of months to come clean out their freezer. one lady gave me 1/2 cow, my dogs had t bone steaks for alot of dinners!! Plus 99% of the time when i get to the house, people usually invite
us in ( i always have my husband go with me), and they take the food right out of their freezer while im standing there.
Id just follow my instincts about people. Im sure someone out there will KNOW of someone who had a bad experience, but the majority of the people will tell you how good their experiences have been.
Brenda

carolejc2007 <mooska2me@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Okay, I have read here several times that a good place to score meat
was place an ad on Freecycle and/or Craigslist and ask for freezer
burned meat and meat scrap from hunters. I placed an ad this
morning and immediately received a response from someone who advised
me as follows:

"
or find a cheaper, natural alternative to BARF."
!

Carole (Mom of 2 Greyhounds and 2 Italian Greys)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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11a. Re: Newbie predator question
Posted by: "cleone4100@aol.com" cleone4100@aol.com cleone4100
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 9:29 am ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

You wrote that if a dog is well-fed it would probably not kill. The truth is
dogs are dogs and given a pack mentality and prey instinct, they can and
will hunt and kill. We lived adjacent to a cattle ranch in Sourhtern California
and calves were being killed. The rancher assumed it was coyotes. He started
posting watches and it turned out to be a 'pack' of local dogs, all house
pets, all well-fed on kibble diets, who were allowed to roam free. They formed
their own little pack and when seeing the cattle, gave chase and brought down
the young calves. Unfortunately all the dogs were destroyed , as well as any
other dog that wandered innocently onto the ranch property. But it had
nothing to do with being fed kibble vs raw, it had to do with being dogs.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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12.1. Re: Fasting
Posted by: "Roseann" rgabrys@wyan.org gaiabreeze
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 9:33 am ((PDT))

great_dane_devotee wrote:

> Thanks, with the egg addition, the one dog who ate the chicken a couple
> of days ago ate it
> again, so that's at least progress. However, the Dane, takes the chicken
> out of the dish,
> moves it to the floor and licks up all the egg.

LOL, that sounds like my merle girl. That big 'ol tongue can do some
mighty fine grade sorting through stuff in her dish. She can easily
pick up an empty salmon oil cap or lick the egg out of the shell without
breaking it. At least when she's picked or licked out everything she
really likes, most times she'll go back and clean her plate; egg shells
and all. Also, I find that she prefers her meat chilled not room temp.
We've only been doing this about 10 days so far but we're both getting
better at it. She hasn't done a morning 'reject' in two days and her
poop is a delight to behold. I'm off to meet the meat manager at Kroger
today to see about any outdated meat... I'm really anxious to start
introducing some variety. So far, she's only had chicken.
Roseann and Mecka the 2yr old Great Dane

Messages in this topic (39)
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13a. Re: quarters turn into thighs and drumsticks
Posted by: "Roseann" rgabrys@wyan.org gaiabreeze
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 9:39 am ((PDT))

> Bill Carnes wrote:
> If I were you, I would substitute chicken leg quarters in place of
> the drumsticks and thighs. They are a more appropriate size. Both
> drumsticks and thighs can be swallowed whole.

So, if I give my Great Dane a quarter, she just snaps it in half and
chomps the bones into pencil sharp pieces (I've seen those pieces in a
morning reject/barf 12 hours after she had dinner) then swallows. To
me, it seems as though cutting the quarter for her would allow her to
chew up the smaller pieces more and reduce the size of the bones before
she swallows them. Don't big dogs consume the entire thing, bones and
all? I find the same to be true with backs--bigger pieces get swallowed
in bigger hunks vs smaller chunks get more chewing. I'm kinda confused...
Roseann

Messages in this topic (9)
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14a. Re: internal organs for dalmatians
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 10:34 am ((PDT))

liver & heart.
It is over all balance.
I have had Dals for uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........... 17-ish years!
The 10% is MUCH less than any k***le out there has in it & necessary for
their health.
Trina

--
Chip (deaf Dalmatian) 11 yrs old
Casper (deaf Great Dane) 7 mos old (140+ lbs now!)
Whisper (deaf Great Dane) 4 mos old
Louie (hearing Great Dane) 5 mos old
Joey (deaf & blind Lhasa Apso) 11 yrs old
Amy (disabled Lhasa Apso) 11 yrs old
Cassandra (disabled Lhasa Apso) 2 yrs old
Mr Paris (Lhasa Apso) 7 yrs old
Chloe (deaf & blind Spaniel mix) 16+ yrs old

On 10/5/07, bel_the <bel_the@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> internal organs are high in purines and could cause kidney problems for
> dalmatians. where can i get the "10" in the 80+10+10 meat, internal
> organs and bone equation?
>
> thank you.
>
> _
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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Feed Pets Raw Food

Friday, October 5, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12124

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