[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12120

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Newbie here with a question
From: Andrea
1b. Re: Newbie here with a question
From: jennifer_hell

2a. Re: Wolf goes fishing for salmon
From: nkjvcjs
2b. Re: Wolf goes fishing for salmon
From: Laura Atkinson
2c. Re: Wolf goes fishing for salmon
From: PK Shader

3a. Re: Hello....I'm a Newbie!!
From: Meredith Soriano

4.1. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
From: costrowski75
4.2. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
From: katkellm

5.1. newbie
From: andrew_schoener
5.2. Re: newbie
From: costrowski75

6a. Re: Predator behavior
From: pelirojita

7a. Fresh Pork? Safe?
From: Jamie Dolan
7b. Re: Fresh Pork? Safe?
From: costrowski75
7c. Re: Fresh Pork? Safe?
From: Tina Berry
7d. Re: Fresh Pork? Safe?
From: costrowski75

8a. Need direction for Newbies
From: Brenda & Karl Miller
8b. Re: Need direction for Newbies
From: Tina Berry

9a. Re: first day success and chicken feet
From: Giselle

10a. New Here
From: rlayt
10b. Re: New Here
From: Andrea

11a. Newbie predator question
From: Brenda & Karl Miller
11b. Re: Newbie predator question
From: Andrea
11c. Re: Newbie predator question
From: katkellm

12a. Re: Ground beef
From: Sonja

13. newbie need advise on starting
From: firedestroyer2001

Messages
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1a. Re: Newbie here with a question
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 1:07 pm ((PDT))

Yes, heart is most definitely a muscle meat, and a great one at that.
Just be aware that heart meals usually result in really dark poos, so
don't let it freak you out.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jennifer_hell" <jenniferhell@...>
wrote:
> They're not whole chicken and turkeys,I don't know how much meat is
> left on them until I get them. Carcasses are what is left after the
> meat for human consumption is removed.
> I thought heart is muscle meat? Would that be bad to add in the
> beginning?

Messages in this topic (6)
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1b. Re: Newbie here with a question
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 1:13 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, heart is most definitely a muscle meat, and a great one at that.
> Just be aware that heart meals usually result in really dark poos, so
> don't let it freak you out.
>
> Andrea
Ah, okay, thank you! =D

Jennifer with Mandy from Germany

Messages in this topic (6)
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2a. Re: Wolf goes fishing for salmon
Posted by: "nkjvcjs" nefreed@gmail.com nkjvcjs
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 1:08 pm ((PDT))

I took my Katie to a park with a pond, and she popped into the pond,
and came out, less than 30 seconds later with a fish in her mouth.
I made her drop it, but it convinced me that fish is an important part
of her diet.

-Nicole
Katie, Petey and the cats

Messages in this topic (5)
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2b. Re: Wolf goes fishing for salmon
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 1:28 pm ((PDT))

Well heck, if I drop a sock in the hallway, it's immediately in someone's
mouth...that doesn't make it necessary for their health.

On 10/4/07, nkjvcjs <nefreed@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I took my Katie to a park with a pond, and she popped into the pond,
> and came out, less than 30 seconds later with a fish in her mouth.
> I made her drop it, but it convinced me that fish is an important part
> of her diet.
>
> -Nicole
> Katie, Petey and the cats

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Forget love...I'd rather fall in chocolate.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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2c. Re: Wolf goes fishing for salmon
Posted by: "PK Shader" Forloveofdogs@gmail.com forloveofdogs
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 1:32 pm ((PDT))

When Honey was younger (before his brain bleed) I used to buy big, fat
chubs at the bait store and throw them into his large kiddie pool. He
would have an absolute blast catching them and tossing them to the
other Jacks who weren't as good at catching them as he.

It was a great way to work their minds and bodies while providing them
the freshest of meals.

PK

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/SATZ_Main/

Two Sided Communication, Cooperation, Respect

Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. Re: Hello....I'm a Newbie!!
Posted by: "Meredith Soriano" mom2mytwinz@yahoo.com mom2mytwinz
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 1:12 pm ((PDT))

***EDITED BY MODERATOR. PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

You were helpful.....I'm watching her eat that chicken plain she's dragging it everywhere so I can't get a pic this time, but this is great!!

"The purity of a person's heart can be quickly measured by how they regard animals"

Meredith

---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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4.1. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 1:24 pm ((PDT))

Gail Edmond <windybond1@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks i didnt realise you meant this thought you meant trim the
reply even though i thought it was trim enough. How stupid you must
think but i am sure there are other newbies to groups who dont
realise this.
>
> Gail.
>
> Ps i have trimmed i think
*****
Tee hee. You get full marks for trying.
If you had trimmed with a vengenance, you'd also have deleted the
stuff below that I just this very moment put in brackets:

[----- Original Message ----
> From: costrowski75 <Chriso75@...>
> To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, 4 October, 2007 4:49:21 AM
> Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
>
> , Gail Edmond <windybond1@ ...> wrote:]

And this all that would have been included in your response to the
list:

> Trim as in cut out--delete, remove--material from the old post
>

What we all (moderators and subscribers alike) love to see is a
message as lengthy as it needs to be to adewquately describe the
situation, to which is attached as little as possible of the original
poster's message. Sometimes, if it helps relay your response, it's
good to include reference bits from the original post. It's rarely
necessary to include the entire original post. And it's often very
confusing when one does.

Beginners get special dispensation.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (38)
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4.2. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 2:16 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Gail Edmond <windybond1@...> wrote:
>
> thanks for the reply i think you are probably right it is me at fault.

Hi Gail,
I really didn't mean it was your fault in a bad way. Actually, its a
compliment that you love your dogs so much that you are worried about
their health and are getting back spasms sitting over you computer
trying to learn about raw feeding. I was lucky when i started feeding
raw, my 3 dogs took to it instantly. I didn't have to use the tough
love approach, so i can only imagine how hard it is to pick up their
food and know they didn't eat. In the same token, when my son was
young, he's 18 now, he became an Oreo cookie and Lucky Charm cereal
connoisseur. When i had to finally tell him no junk food allowed, it
was hard on me because he did the 3year old tantrum thing. I was able
to stay the course because i knew i was right. So, what i'm trying to
say is that by staying strong, you are doing the best thing for your
dogs. It seems hard to you because you probably aren't for sure, as
in 100% sure, that you are doing the right thing, but i can tell you
that from my experience with my dogs, raw feeding is the best thing
that i ever did for them. Honest. How is it going today? KathyM who
is positive that no one on this list thinks that you are stupid
because "Everyone who got where he is, started where he was."

Messages in this topic (38)
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5.1. newbie
Posted by: "andrew_schoener" andrew_schoener@yahoo.com andrew_schoener
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 1:30 pm ((PDT))

Hi - I just gave my 6 month 38 pound brittany his first taste of
chicken. It's a rather large chicken wing. He's a fairly polite
eater, so I am not too worried about this. He's more of a gnawer, but
i will be curious what happens with the bones.

Any Boston are raw feds? I'm looking for good sources.

Andy

Messages in this topic (54)
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5.2. Re: newbie
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 2:45 pm ((PDT))

"andrew_schoener" <andrew_schoener@...> wrote:
>
> Hi - I just gave my 6 month 38 pound brittany his first taste of
> chicken. It's a rather large chicken wing.
*****
A 38lb pup needs more than a wing. Rather large notwithstanding. Are
you dabbling with raw parts as a supplement to kibble or are you and
your pup good to go? What's the plan, Stan?

Gnawing is good. Gnawing is terrific in fact. Much more productive
than grab and swallow and even on a mere wing gnawing will benefit
teeth and gums.

> i will be curious what happens with the bones.
*****
I am confused. Do you mean what happens to the bones after the pup has
eaten them? Or what happens when the pup has gnawed off all the meat?

I suggest you try a Cornish game hen quarter, or perhaps a bone-in
chicken breast for some real food, some real raw dining entertainment.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (54)
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6a. Re: Predator behavior
Posted by: "pelirojita" kerrymurray7@gmail.com pelirojita
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 1:34 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

Hi Carol,

I think the point has been made many times here that this is an issue
of training and not of diet.

But if it helps your friend to know our story. My 40+lb lab mix and
80+lb golden retriever have been rawfed since the beginning of July
this year. Their diet is primarily chicken and turkey carcasses
(because I can get ethically raised, appropriately fed birds for a
price/lb that is in my budget).

We have 2 parrots and at various times foster many more. Some of the
parrots fly and they all are rescues and subject to some nervous
behavior which means lots of squawking and nervous flapping of wings.
Neither of my dogs respond to these behaviors. Several times a
parrot with clipped wings has flown directly into my golden retriever
and bounced off her and she hasn't moved. Yet, my dogs will pursue
pigeons and other wild birds that invade "their" backyard.

The only time we had a slight issue was when an African Grey, climbed
down from his cage, toddled over to me and bit my foot to get my
attention. He had climbed over my lab mix to get to me and the lab
did not move. But when the lab saw him bite me and heard my surprised
response, he came in to defend me and there was a kerfluffle of
feathers. I immediately called off my lab. The Grey had lost 2 tail
feathers, and otherwise there was not a mark on him - though he
weighed only 500 grams and had just been in a tussle with a 40lb dog
with large teeth defending his human.

My golden retriever came to us as a stray, had been well-trained by
someone in her past and it only took diverting her attention from the
parrots 2 or 3 times before she learned not to bother them. My lab
mix came to us as a puppy. He once got close enough to sniff our
Pionus parrot when he was quite young and she wheeled on him and bit
him on the nose. He has never bothered her or any other parrot in our
house since (except for above exception when he was defending me) and
this is a dog who pushes every boundary and would be considered a
"handful."

They both practically do backflips to get at their raw meals but don't
attempt to create their own raw meals. Well-trained herding dogs
should have their prey drives well in check.

Good luck,
Kerry

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> My dogs have the prey drive of a kumquat even though they are fed raw.
> They don't make the correlation between what mom feeds them and the
> living animals they see. Lots of raw fed dogs live with livestock,
> hunt with their owners, etc without attacking the animals. If they
> don't hurt the goats now they won't when they are fed raw, even if
> their diet is primarily goat.
>
> Andrea
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Carol Dunster <cedunster@> wrote:
> >
> > I was talking with a friend about feeding raw and he said that he
> > wouldn't be comfortable doing that because he has two 95 lb dogs and
> > livestock. He said that he couldn't be sure that, having been eating
> > raw meat, they wouldn't go for his livestock - esp. if one of them
> > were bleeding. What is everyone's experience on that?
>

Messages in this topic (9)
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7a. Fresh Pork? Safe?
Posted by: "Jamie Dolan" jamiedolan@gmail.com jamiedolan
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 1:49 pm ((PDT))

HI,

I got a organic hog today, it is frozen, raised by a fairly small
local farmer. I had it butchered on tuesday. Should I keep it in the
freezer for a while before I feed to to make sure any parasites
(trich) are dead, or is this not really a problem even with a pig from
a small farm? (Is this really only a problem with wild game and
fish?)?

If you reccomend I keep this frozen, how long? I keep my freezers
atleast -10 or lower.

Thanks

Jamie

Messages in this topic (4)
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7b. Re: Fresh Pork? Safe?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 2:10 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jamie Dolan" <jamiedolan@...> wrote:
>
> HI,
>
> I got a organic hog today, it is frozen, raised by a fairly small
> local farmer. I had it butchered on tuesday. Should I keep it in the
> freezer for a while before I feed to to make sure any parasites
> (trich) are dead,
*****
IMO if the farm was truly certified organic, the pig will be fine. But
if by "organic" you mean "naturally raised" and that includes letting
the pig root as pigs so love to do, you might want to freeze the meat
first. The problem with pigs is they really do eat everything if
allowed to.

So it comes down to what farmer let the pig eat.
Maybe you can ask the farmer?
It's entirely possible I am being too much a worrywart.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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7c. Re: Fresh Pork? Safe?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 2:18 pm ((PDT))

"But if by "organic" you mean "naturally raised" and that includes letting
the pig root as pigs so love to do, you might want to freeze the meat first.
The problem with pigs is they really do eat everything if allowed to."

The one and only time I fed pork, mine got worms. Coincidence? I don't
know, but they've never had worms since and I don't feed pork. How many
wild pigs to wolves actually eat?? IMO deer, antelope, elk is the best to
feed and most of what they would eat in the wild, but I know small game is
good too, rabbit, etc. wolves would eat - I'm just not a big fan of pork.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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7d. Re: Fresh Pork? Safe?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 2:54 pm ((PDT))

"Tina Berry" <k9baron@...> wrote:
> The one and only time I fed pork, mine got worms. Coincidence?
*****
What kind of worms? What kind of pork? Unless and until you can
provide some evidence to contrary, I am comfortable seeing this as a
good example of superstitious behavior. I mean, you can feed pork or
not feed pork, it's okay by me but worms after feeding pork is
probably in the Myths files on Rawfed.com.

How many
> wild pigs to wolves actually eat??
*****
Oh maybe none. But pigs are ungulates and wolves eat ungulates. How
many wolves eat chicken? Oh maybe none. Pigs are closer to being
species appropriate than chickens are, yet you have no problem
including chicken in your dogs' diet.

I'm just not a big fan of pork.
*****
Clearly. Which is cool. But your reasoning is a tad skewed.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. Need direction for Newbies
Posted by: "Brenda & Karl Miller" Brendajo_Miller@msn.com brendadoxy
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 1:59 pm ((PDT))

We're totally new to raw feeding; want/need to start today. Where can I
find how much to feed my two 2-year-old dachshunds, and the ratio of
meat/bone/organs. So much info to wade through; a point in the right
direction will be very appreciated.
Brenda & Karl

Messages in this topic (2)
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8b. Re: Need direction for Newbies
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 2:17 pm ((PDT))

"Where can I find how much to feed my two 2-year-old dachshunds, and the
ratio of meat/bone/organs."

The easiest way to start.... go buy some bone in chicken breasts or whole
chickens (whatever is on sale) and give them 2-3% of their total adult
weight. Ratios are 80% meat, 10% organs, 10% bone. So your little guys may
eat a leg/thigh once a day, or a bone in breast, depending on the size of
your fur kids.

After they've adjusted to chicken (2-3 weeks), you can start them on other
meat source. I feed mine whatever is on sale when it is not hunting
season. So we are on elk, venison, antelope right now. We were on chicken
all summer when I ran out of wild game. Liver we feed either once a week or
when we were on chickens, they got the innards of the chicken daily.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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9a. Re: first day success and chicken feet
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 2:14 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Caroline!
If they're attached to the chicken, and he is still
trying to swallow them whole, you might want to chop them off before
you feed them and freeze several in a shallow container of ice. I give
these to my Newfy girl as chewies - I buy the feet separately.

If he is getting to the end of the leg and just doing the crunch -
swallow routine, thats normal dog 'chewing', ime and I wouldn't stress
over it.
TC
Giselle

> Thanks
> Another easy morning, Londo still a bit slow but he is anyway LOL
>
> He seemed to be trying to swallow the foot again, once he got down
to that level, so I took it off him.
> Am I being over cautious?
> He could do with the natural glucosomaine as he is currently
supplemented he has a narrowing of his spine and his back end is very
under developed.
>
> Thanks
> Caroline, Londo and Bonnie the chicken queen

Messages in this topic (20)
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10a. New Here
Posted by: "rlayt" rlayt@bresnan.net rlayt
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 2:15 pm ((PDT))

I am new here and I do have a couple of questions. I've been sitting
back and reading before I post. I'm sorry if I cover ground that has
already been plowed once - I am a worrier. Please don't bit me. ;)

Until I am sure I understand how raw-feeding works I am using
Nature's Variety raw patties. I want to save money and the two dogs
3-1/2 patties per day (2lbs a day) so a $24-26.00 bag (12 patties=6
lbs) lasts only three days. Its very expensive but I rationalize
that I am saving money on vet bills in the long run. (Not so true
perhaps since food is only one factor and we just went a round with
the vet trying to figure out why they were having intermittent
diarrhea and vomiting, along with my friends' pack of five dogs. We
got rid of the chicken jerky treats and the illness ended.)

Unfortunately, I haven't bought a freezer yet due to other unexpected
financial outlays but hopefully soon. Having just the small freezer
compartment limits me a great deal. Chickens take up a lot of room
whereas rolls of patties don't.

My dogs are Mitzi, a 49 lb Husky/Border Collie mix, 6 years old
adopted from the shelter two years ago, and Lucas, a Foxhound mix,
weighing 62 lbs, 2 yrs old, adopted a year ago. Both seem to be at
their optimal weight. So I figure that raw feeding guidelines would
have me feed Mitzi around a pound to 1-1/2 pounds a day. Lucas would
get between 1-1/4 up to 2 lbs (he has a higher metabolism than Mitzi
so I rounded up from 1.86). Every now ad thenLucas is catching and
eating a sparrow sized bird. Will I need to worm him because of that?

Translating the recommended amounts into actual food seems like the
tricky part. Especially when you start talking 80% meat, 10%bone,
and 10% organ. If I buy ground rabbit (whole carcass and fur) from
here http://www.hare-today.com/index.php?cPath=21I am thinking it
would be just like feeding patties? I'd just have to measure and
package for individual meals?

How do you divide up stuff so you hit the 80-10-10 mark when not
feeding the whole animal? Just eyeball it?

Am I worrying too much about giving them the right food? After all,
before kibble they ate our table scraps!

I've been giving my dogs soup bones which sometimes have chunks of
meat still on besides having all that good marrow. Primarily, I get
beef knuckle bones with the leg part detached so they have to spend
some time on it. I got them the kind with a leg part still on once
and disliked how the joint looked like they could get something
caught on a tooth. There have never been any ill-effects (stomach or
intestine) from those. Although one dog got his jaw trapped inside
one once and I just had to gently help him remove it. Should I worry
about possible ill-effects if they have each consumed at least one of
those every three days? Would getting a jaw caught happen very often?

Robin L.
Helena, Montana
Another convert away from kibble thanks to the greed and lack of
ethics on the part of the pet food companies.

Messages in this topic (19)
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10b. Re: New Here
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 2:54 pm ((PDT))

> I am new here and I do have a couple of questions. I've been
> sitting back and reading before I post.

An exelent idea, I see you already picked up a lot! Don't worry
about asking questions, I think everything has been covered at least
once over the years.

> Unfortunately, I haven't bought a freezer yet due to other
> unexpected financial outlays but hopefully soon.

Check to see if there is a freecycle (or similar) group in your
area. I got a 5' stand up freezer for free when I started raw
feeding, and one is offered about every month. Not the large energy
star that I dream of, but it works.

> Translating the recommended amounts into actual food seems like the
> tricky part. Especially when you start talking 80% meat, 10%bone,
> and 10% organ.

Don't fret about getting the ratios right, they are just a
guideline. Read it as "Mostly meat, some edible bone, and some
organ"

> If I buy ground rabbit (whole carcass and fur)
<SNIP> Iam thinking it would be just like feeding patties?

Probably, but that isn't the route you want to go. Better to buy a
whole rabbit and cut it into parts if need be. Ground food provides
no dental benefits to speak of, unlike whole foods.

> How do you divide up stuff so you hit the 80-10-10 mark when not
> feeding the whole animal?

Every meal doesn't have to have meat bone and organ in it. The ratio
is based on what a prey animal is made up of, so if you feed through
a whole rabbit you hit the mark, even if it takes four days. That's
the beauty of feeding whole foods.

> Am I worrying too much about giving them the right food?

(= yes, you are. In reality, prey model feeding is extremely easy
and flexible. It is balance over time. Over a week, over a month,
no big deal.

> I've been giving my dogs soup bones which sometimes have chunks of
> meat still on besides having all that good marrow.

The problem with soup bones is that they used to hold up a cow, which
means they are wicked strong. Strong enough to chip or crack a
tooth, even. Lots of people who fed their dogs wreck bones (as we
like to call them) end up with at least one fractured tooth down the
line. Chewing these bones really weaken teeth over time. Better to
give them something complicated and not so hard, like a pig leg or a
slab of beef rib bones (which are still hard, but didn't hold up the
cow).

At first when you go to whole foods you probably want to stick with
one protein source for a week or two so that their digestive systems
don't get overrun. Add a new protein source at a time to reduce the
likelyhood of loose stools. Ask more questions if you need.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (19)
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11a. Newbie predator question
Posted by: "Brenda & Karl Miller" Brendajo_Miller@msn.com brendadoxy
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 2:16 pm ((PDT))

We're brand new (today) to raw feeding and we've been reading through
the predator posts but didn't find an answer to our question.

Our (2) dachshunds killed a possum last week, have killed many rodents
such as field mice, have chased and cornered racoons (yikes!) and
possums, and chase everything, including cats, out of our yard.

Is there anything I need to worry or think about since their prey genes
are quite strong and active? Up until now we've taken everything that
they've killed away from them but could we let them eat what they kill
or might that encourage them to kill something they shouldn't? We doubt
they could catch a cat but...? Dachshunds were bred to hunt so we're
unsure here.

Thank you for your help.

Karl & Brenda

Messages in this topic (3)
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11b. Re: Newbie predator question
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 2:34 pm ((PDT))

I doubt that raw feeding the dogs will cause them to kill more often,
since they will be getting plenty of food from you I doubt they would
want to expend the energy to hunt down something on their own just to
eat. But when they do get the urge to bring something down they
might decide to eat it, you know, since it is already there.

My cats hunted birds and mice long before we switched them to raw
food and their level of hunting hasn't changed since. The difference
is that two of them actually eat what they kill now (though they
still refuse whole prey that *I* offer them). The other one still
brings the prize home for dad and probably wouldn't eat it if I
sauteed it for him.

Lots of people have dogs and cats that catch their own food from time
to time. There's a possibility the animal might have fleas or some
beastie in it, but I don't worry about that with the cats. If it
worries you there is the option of freezing it before feeding to kill
any parasites. I try to take away the mice from the cats since I
don't know if anyone in the neighborhood leaves out poison for them.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Brenda & Karl Miller"
<Brendajo_Miller@...> wrote:

> Our (2) dachshunds killed a possum last week, have killed many
> rodents such as field mice, have chased and cornered racoons
> (yikes!) and possums, and chase everything, including cats, out of
> our yard.

Messages in this topic (3)
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11c. Re: Newbie predator question
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 2:53 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Brenda & Karl Miller" Up until
now we've taken everything that
> they've killed away from them but could we let them eat what they kill
> or might that encourage them to kill something they shouldn't?
>
Hi Karl & Brenda,
From my experience with my high prey drive dog, if you allow them to
eat what they kill it will intensify their prey drive. However,
that's not necessarily a bad thing as long as they understand what
they are allowed to pursue. In my life cats, sheep, foals, horses and
other dogs are a never allowed. I live on a farm and the fact that
the raccoons and possums and squirrels are an always allowed to pursue
means that the critters are not pooping on my horses hay and ripping
open my feed bags and spreading my garbage all over the place. My dog
has never ever eaten a raccoon or a possum that he has caught, but
squirrels and rabbits are always eaten. You run the risk of a
parasite infection because the wild meat isn't frozen first, but i
have never had a problem. Trying to salvage this as on topic, if your
dogs catch something and you can take it away from them, freeze for a
while and then let them decide if they want to eat it. KathyM

Messages in this topic (3)
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12a. Re: Ground beef
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 2:18 pm ((PDT))

I'm a complete chicken and started raw in May...Kodie ate ONLY ground turkey for 1-2 months and didn't have a problem with sloppy poo. It was just tiny and dark. I finally got up the nerve to add bones to her diet in July or so, and when she didn't keel over and die, I became more confident. Now, I have no problems handing over bones.

Sonja

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (22)
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13. newbie need advise on starting
Posted by: "firedestroyer2001" firedestroyer2001@yahoo.com firedestroyer2001
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 2:54 pm ((PDT))

Hello my name is Jessica and I would like some tips on feeding my 12
pound 8 month old shetland sheepdog a raw diet what do you recommend I
start with? chicken? I have read som article on raw feeding and I am a
little worried about the detox phase I really dont want runny poo
everywhere is their away to avoid it? should I mix raw with kibble at
first or should I just switch her cold chicken different sites tell you
different things so now I am just confused HELP!!!! thank you

Messages in this topic (1)
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