[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12002

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Goop in eyes
From: Penny (Nickles) Parker

2a. Re: Who raises their own beef, goats and/or chicken?
From: Linda H. Gower
2b. Re: Who raises their own beef, goats and/or chicken?
From: Heather Robertson

3a. Re: Puppy feeding
From: Amanda Berthelette
3b. Re: Puppy feeding
From: costrowski75
3c. Re: Puppy feeding
From: Laura Atkinson

4a. Re: Neyla won't eat lamb neck bones anymore - help!
From: Jen

5a. ok I am in love with Raw feeding
From: Heather
5b. Re: ok I am in love with Raw feeding
From: Daisy Foxworth
5c. Re: ok I am in love with Raw feeding
From: heather pavelin
5d. Re: ok I am in love with Raw feeding
From: Jen S

6a. Re: Thank you!
From: melanieabrams

7a. Re: Happy update
From: ginny wilken
7b. Re: Happy update
From: costrowski75

8a. Re: chitterlings
From: mandajenwalker

9.1. Re: new member
From: Laura Atkinson

10a. Re: amount to feed puppies--why so much?
From: Jen S

11a. Re: San Diego Resources?
From: Sandee Lee

12a. Re: Vet blames Raw Diet for Coccidia....any thoughts?
From: jackie
12b. Re: Vet blames Raw Diet for Coccidia....any thoughts?
From: Laura Atkinson
12c. Re: Vet blames Raw Diet for Coccidia....any thoughts?
From: Tina Berry
12d. Re: Vet blames Raw Diet for Coccidia....any thoughts?
From: Laura Atkinson

13a. Re: Please help, My dog is constipated
From: Yasuko herron

14a. Re: Trimming...
From: Laura Atkinson

15. Best type of whole fish?
From: Sonja

Messages
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1a. Re: Goop in eyes
Posted by: "Penny (Nickles) Parker" loverladymaggiemae@yahoo.com loverladymaggiemae
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 6:30 am ((PDT))

Brandi,
If it started with one dog and now has spread to all of them except the
pup, I'd think eye infections, especially if it is yellow. The pup
probably doesn't have it because his immunity is still really good from
his nursing. If it is clear/white, then look for allergies to
something in the enviornment. It could be anything. If it is allergy
season for the humans, the dogs, especially if they are outside a lot,
could be suffering from allergies, also.
Either way, clean the goop up with wet cotton balls, or I use baby
wipes. Make sure you don't use the same one on another dog, you don't
want to take the chance of spreading something around.
Good luck.
Penny & The Menagerie

Messages in this topic (6)
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2a. Re: Who raises their own beef, goats and/or chicken?
Posted by: "Linda H. Gower" pudeltime@bellsouth.net pudeltime
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 6:30 am ((PDT))

> Anyway, does anyone on here raise there own beef or chicken? If so,
> would it be worth our time? We definitely have the room to run some
> cattle. We actually lease some of our land out to run cattle, not ours
> but some friends'.
>

Well, it'd be easy enough to run a couple head of cattle with your friend's. We raise goats (just started in the last year) and I've done what I said I wouldn't and have named them. Too late for eating any of these girls........ Can't do it once I've named them, I'm too much of a sap. They are all bred now - so the thought's open when they kid. Hoping all of us get to experience a little goat meat.

--
Linda H. Gower
Mid TN
Lance (SP) AX, AXJ, Delta Pet Partner
Chase, (MP) OA, AXJ
In memory of Cocoa (who started it all)'70-'89
Duncan, UD, NA, NAJ, TDI great little buddy '89-'04
Bonzai, CDX, MX, MXJ, Delta Pet Partner - best partner I could dream fo

Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: Who raises their own beef, goats and/or chicken?
Posted by: "Heather Robertson" clasix2003@rnsmte.com lotsadogz2003
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 11:06 am ((PDT))

We raise Sheep, Goats, Rabbit, Pig, Chicken ect..... For our dogs. Sheep and goats take field fence not just barb wire. We also raise cattle for ourselves but the dogs get alot of it too.
Heather

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Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: Puppy feeding
Posted by: "Amanda Berthelette" zooberthelette@yahoo.com zooberthelette
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 6:38 am ((PDT))

I would look up the adult weight of both breeds and then go with that. Collies and Poodles probably weigh the same full grown any way. Hope it helps
fairefli <mommyrn@mac.com> wrote:
I have been reading to give puppies 2-3% of their estimated full grown
weight. What if you don't know what that is going to be? I have a
collie/poodle mix. Any guesses what she will weight?

Chy

---------------------------------
Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.

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Messages in this topic (4)
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3b. Re: Puppy feeding
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 9:30 am ((PDT))

"fairefli" <mommyrn@...> wrote:
>
> I have been reading to give puppies 2-3% of their estimated full
grown
> weight. What if you don't know what that is going to be? I have
a
> collie/poodle mix.
*****
If the pup is quite young (four months or less) you can use the
method based on 10% of current weight; but if the pup is beyond
the "quite young" stage you can:
--give the child food and let it eat til it's full, then collect up
the remains for a later feeding
--learn the average weights for the two breeds and come up with an
average that makes sense and feed 2%-3% of that
--take a stab at a likely weight and feed 2%-3% of that.

Since every conceivable way of feeding relies heavily on adjusting
to suit the needs of the dog (growing pup or otherwise), it really
doesn't matter how you go about it as long as you pay attention to
the effect the food has on the pup. Keep in your mind a picture of
a healthy active alert and happy athlete and when the pup isn't
matching up, tweak the menu.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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3c. Re: Puppy feeding
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 11:15 am ((PDT))

Then you go with 10% of their current weight and adjust as they grow :-)
I'm just too lazy to adjust that much and have dogs that I can figure an
anticipated weight.

On 9/5/07, fairefli <mommyrn@mac.com> wrote:
>
> I have been reading to give puppies 2-3% of their estimated full grown
> weight. What if you don't know what that is going to be? I have a
> collie/poodle mix. Any guesses what she will weight?
>
> Chy

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell

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Messages in this topic (4)
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4a. Re: Neyla won't eat lamb neck bones anymore - help!
Posted by: "Jen" jboydmorin@gmail.com choirgirl_21
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 7:46 am ((PDT))

So we saw the vet on Friday and I had her take a look at her teeth
while we were there. Nothing out of the ordinary. She continues to
eat everything else, including a whole chicken normally (although that
gave her diarrhea, that's the last time I buy store bought food for
them!). Any other ideas?

Thanks,
Jen

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jen" <jboydmorin@...> wrote:
>
> The last two times I have fed Neyla her lamb necks, she won't eat the
> bone when she gets down to it. These are the really meaty whole necks
> (about 2 1/2 lbs each) that I've referred to before. Before feeding
> these two, I tried some lamb shanks that Peter had offered to me and
> Neyla got the bone stuck on her teeth a couple of times. I pulled it
> off and gave it back to her. When it happened another time or two, I
> just threw the bone away. So I'm wondering if she now associates lamb
> bone with that experience. She did continue to try to eat the lamb
> shank when I gave it back though, even though it kept getting stuck.
>
> Any other ideas? She's eating her chicken quarters like normal, it's
> just the lamb bone. She also had her annual exam last month and her
> teeth checked out perfectly. We have an appt with an orthopedist
> tomorrow for a separate issue so I am going to ask him to check her
> mouth just in case something popped up out of nowhere, but given that
> she's eating everything else normally including hard dehydrated
> chicken treats I doubt that's it.
>
> It really seems like the shank caused the problem but I'd love to hear
> any other ideas. And any input on what to do if that was it - keep
> trying and hopefully she'll go back to eating them?
>
> Thanks,
> Jen
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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5a. ok I am in love with Raw feeding
Posted by: "Heather" hpav061378@yahoo.com hpav061378
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 8:18 am ((PDT))

Ok so it has been a week and a half and I will never go back to kibble
ever again. Leo has had a better time eating the chicken and that
makes me feel better. Leo has had no loose stools YAY! He even had his
second dose of deworming with little loose stools, Claire had some
worms left over so she had some diarrhea but not too bad. So they are
sheading a tiny bit but I think that is normal. We are feeding once a
day which I like also and they have already gotten use to that. I did
spoil them and give them a tiny bit of organs from the chicken before I
cooked it for myself and it didnt effect Leo bad at all. I am so
happy! I am getting ready to go to the meat market to get some whole
chickens. Do I just cut these into two and give them the whole thing?
Thanks again Heather

Messages in this topic (4)
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5b. Re: ok I am in love with Raw feeding
Posted by: "Daisy Foxworth" daisyfoxworth@yahoo.com daisyfoxworth
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 9:11 am ((PDT))

I am so
> happy! I am getting ready to go to the meat market to get some whole
> chickens. Do I just cut these into two and give them the whole
thing?
>

http://www.rawfeddogs.net/RecipeDetail/2

Love this site! LOL

Daisy

Messages in this topic (4)
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5c. Re: ok I am in love with Raw feeding
Posted by: "heather pavelin" hpav061378@yahoo.com hpav061378
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 9:42 am ((PDT))

That sight is great thanks I am a visual learner so that helped me alot! thanks again heather

Daisy Foxworth <daisyfoxworth@yahoo.com> wrote: I am so
> happy! I am getting ready to go to the meat market to get some whole
> chickens. Do I just cut these into two and give them the whole
thing?
>

http://www.rawfeddogs.net/RecipeDetail/2

Love this site! LOL

Daisy

---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

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Messages in this topic (4)
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5d. Re: ok I am in love with Raw feeding
Posted by: "Jen S" jennilist@gmail.com bowiegirl1979
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 10:26 am ((PDT))

On 9/5/07, Heather <hpav061378@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I am getting ready to go to the meat market to get some whole
> chickens. Do I just cut these into two and give them the whole thing?

I give the whole thing and let my boy eat what he wants, then save the rest
for the next meal. This worked really well with a whole duck, and he got 3
meals out of it. I love feeding whole prey as it makes it so much easier to
figure out how much organ/meat/bone to feed. One whole duck (or chicken, or
whatever) is the perfect ration. Now if I can just convince my big guy that
a whole rabbit with feathers and all really is food....he wouldn't touch the
thing!

Jen

--
The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
-Mahatma Gandhi

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Messages in this topic (4)
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6a. Re: Thank you!
Posted by: "melanieabrams" melanieabrams@yahoo.com melanieabrams
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 8:28 am ((PDT))

> So, guessing the weight of your chicken at.... say, 3 - 4lbs for a
> fryer - each chicken would be about 2 days worth of food, plus the
> giblets and neck, which can be fed, too.

Actually, it was a HUGE chicken - 11 pounds! - so I think 5 servings
is about right. My husband just came back from a walk with her and
said no poop yet, so we'll see. I think I'm going to do two meals a
day for the first week, then hopefully go to one since it is kind of
messy. Thanks so much for your help!

Melanie

Messages in this topic (9)
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7a. Re: Happy update
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 8:59 am ((PDT))

On Sep 4, 2007, at 10:24 PM, Elizabeth Funderburk wrote:

> ...Can't wait to go to the vet with the Puppy for his routine shots
> and show
> him off. I don't comment a lot on this list, but I do think that raw
> feeding *IS* the best way to go, and I think any normal dog can do it.

Wonderful, Elizabeth! You're on the right track here with your very
common-sense approach. Now, I'm going to ask you to rethink the need
for more vaccines of any kind. Many respected experts acknowledge
that our animals are overvaccinated, and that the basic puppy
protocol can be well met by one parvo and one distemper. Many think
that none at all are required, and that the untroubled immune system
will provide all the defense an animal needs, for life. Since your
guys have both exhibited signs that they have been insulted by past
treatments of some kind, or inherited issues, the vaccines will be
particularly assaulting to them.

Please go read one or both of these lists:

jstsayno2vaccs

and

TruthAboutVaccines

both at yahoogroups

You are welcome to join us also on Rawchat, for more discussion.
Please do your research first, as vaccine damage is certain,
permanent, and progressive if left unaddressed.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (3)
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7b. Re: Happy update
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 9:20 am ((PDT))

"Elizabeth Funderburk" <funder@...> wrote:
Both the Labs are delighted to crunch-crunch on chicken leg
> quarters. My husband is content, because feeding raw is cheaper
than the rx
> SD kibble. And I'm delighted to be feeding what I feel is the
most healthy
> diet for the dogs.
>
> Anyway, it's been 3-4 weeks since I started both my Labs on raw
food. We
> went through a bit of puking and a bit of too-hard poop. Both
dogs seem
> perfectly happy and healthy, and both are *slightly* calmer.
(They're BYB
> Labs, they'll never be truly laid-back.)
*****
I'm delighted to read that your husband for whatever reasons is
content with a raw diet, I'm delighted your dogs are doing well on
chicken and I hope you will be expanding their menu options soon
enough but I am really distressed your throwaway comment about BYB
Labs and levels of calm. You should have stopped a sentence sooner.

If/when BYB is the only determinant of a dog's character, then you
will be well within your rights to say that. But it ain't and you
ought not assume so.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. Re: chitterlings
Posted by: "mandajenwalker" walker1031@chartermi.net mandajenwalker
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 9:13 am ((PDT))

Thanks for your responses! I really appreciate it.
I think I will pass on the chitterlings.
Thanks again,
Mandy

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
<sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> >What are chitterlings and are they worthwhile for my dogs???
>
> Hi,chitterlings is pig of large intestine.
>
>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitterlings
>
> I don't think I would feed but anyone who would??
>
> yassy
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (12)
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9.1. Re: new member
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 9:45 am ((PDT))

I think many of us (myself included some weeks) may feed too much chicken.
It's inexpensive and easy to get. It's not a red meat and probably doesn't
have the amino acids and other nutrients that red meat has that wolves have
thrived on in the wild for eons. I try to balance a chicken heavy week
(usually the week before either payday or coop delivery <grin>) with an
abundance of red meat (pork brisket, beef hearts) and figure, over time
we're doing OK.

I hope your switch to a prey model diet helps with your c-section rate.
I've been consciously watching the amount of bone I feed, as I'm planning my
first litter this fall. Tinks has been under homeopathic treatment for a
couple years now for various symptoms and overall, she's doing very well.
I'm pretty excited to have the first generation of raw fed, completely
unvax'd Kaos puppies coming true. You'll all hear (and see) all about them,
trust me :-)

On 9/5/07, Linda Norris <rodlinkennels@bellnet.ca> wrote:
>
> Hi BJ
> Yes we ended up having c sections with almost every Boxer litter. We did
> have Goldens as well and we didn't have c Sections with them but our puppies
> didn't thrive very well. Some due to poor vet care others we don't know just
> why.
> I consulted with a homeopath and she has been helping as well and a real
> prey diet was suggested. I haven't fed things like veggies or fruit for
> quite some time now but I was also told that I fed too much chicken.
> Linda
> Linda Norris
> rodlinkennels@bellnet..ca
> www.rodlinboxers.com
> home of naturally reared Boxers and Goldens
>
> --
> Laura A
> Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
> Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
> Bertrand Russell

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10a. Re: amount to feed puppies--why so much?
Posted by: "Jen S" jennilist@gmail.com bowiegirl1979
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 10:00 am ((PDT))

On 9/4/07, Laura Atkinson <llatkinson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'd round to about a lb a day and add or subtract as needed. It's hard to
> decide when you don't know details, but unless he's some mutant giant dog
> breed (Great Dane, etc) a lb is as good a place to start as any, and add
> or
> subtract if he gets chubby or too lean.
>
Thanks! That's about what I've been giving him. His weight looks good,
though he acts like I never feed him. I gave him a BIG meal last night of a
2.3 pound chicken frame, plus a bit of liver, thinking it would take him a
while to eat it, and maybe he wouldn't eat it all. He inhaled everything in
less than 10 minutes. He's a chowhound, though, and will eat absolutely
anything I put in front of him (except for duck heads...he won't touch
those. Rabbit heads are ok though, lol.) I figure if I give him a pound
most days, and a slightly larger meal once or twice a week, as long as his
weight looks good he'll be ok. I just wanted some reassurance from all you
experts since he's the first puppy I've rawfed. I switched Loki, my picky
boy who will not eat for days and days if I give him something he doesn't
like, when he was a year and a half and full grown. Thank you!

Jen

--
The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
-Mahatma Gandhi

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11a. Re: San Diego Resources?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 10:15 am ((PDT))

Aren't all Bravo products ground? I would think it would be far less
expensive...and more appropriate...to buy nice whole foods from local
markets, a buying group, etc?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "diana zarate" <zarated5@sbcglobal.net>

> Hi BJ, I buy part of the meat at Noah's ark Pet wash (noahsarkpetwash.com)
in Pacific Beach. They sell a variety of raw dog food. The one I buy is from
Bravo brand (bravorawdiet.com) they can put in a big order for you and you
just pick it up there the day it arrives. The prices are very reasonable
also. Hope this helps.

Messages in this topic (7)
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12a. Re: Vet blames Raw Diet for Coccidia....any thoughts?
Posted by: "jackie" jackiehale1@bellsouth.net jackieoscar2000
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 11:06 am ((PDT))

I am with a Humane Society and we have coccidia in our shelter animals
quite a bit-you can BET these poor animals have never seen anything raw
for food (except maybe road kill while they were trying to survive
after being dumped), so I think your vet has no idea what he/she is
talking about. I agree with the statement that healthy animals will
shed the coccidia and not suffer from it...

I do have a question. I have been feeding raw since May and my dogs
look wonderful...best they have ever looked. One has had a yeast
problem in one ear since he was a pup. I have been hoping it would
clear on this new diet...any thoughts on how long it might take, if it
helps at all?

THanks!
Jackie

Messages in this topic (13)
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12b. Re: Vet blames Raw Diet for Coccidia....any thoughts?
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 11:12 am ((PDT))

Here's another interesting anectodal experience. When Robin came down to
move into Kaos, she came with her brothers and sister (they were just
visiting!). Since they were all crapinabag fed, my first move was to
immediately move Robin away from her littermates and start feeding her real
food and turn her into a Kaos dog. Over the course of the month that the
puppies were visiting, never once did they have anything but loose, sloppy,
disgusting stools (their Mom was here too, so she was on crapcleanup).
Robin, of course, being one of the Perfect Puppies of Kaos, also had perfect
stools, after the first day of switchover to real food. Another littermate,
now living in Colorado, and eating crapinabag, has never had a firm stool.
They all have recurring bouts of coccidia/giardia, whateveria and always
have the splats.

And yet, all of their owners think I'm nuts for feeding raw, 'cause it's
"not natural to listen to them crunch bones." <sigh>

On 9/5/07, Linda Norris <rodlinkennels@bellnet.ca> wrote:
>
> Interesting. I have lots of experience with Coccidia We had it with every
> litter of puppies and since we went raw only one litter has had
> positive coccidia results and was cleared up very quickly. The raw diet
> helps build a strong immune system which can shed these parasites .
> My experience anyway.
> Linda Norris

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell

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12c. Re: Vet blames Raw Diet for Coccidia....any thoughts?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 11:23 am ((PDT))

"coccidia/giardia, "

Not caused from raw.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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12d. Re: Vet blames Raw Diet for Coccidia....any thoughts?
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 11:41 am ((PDT))

No, they're not...but a healthier immune system (like a dog on a diet of
real food) will deal with 'em better, which was my obviously unclear point.

On 9/5/07, Tina Berry <k9baron@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> "coccidia/giardia, "
>
> Not caused from raw.
> --
> Tina Berry - MT
> Kriegshund German Shepherds
> Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
> www.kriegshundgsds.com
>

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell

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13a. Re: Please help, My dog is constipated
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 11:06 am ((PDT))

>How can I fix her little problem

Hi.If more meat,or giving liver did not help.Just go for walk.

Walking encourage bowel movement.

yassy

---------------------------------
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

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14a. Re: Trimming...
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 11:06 am ((PDT))

About the typo? Yep <grin>. The dry skin has *decreased* substantially
though :-)

On 9/4/07, costrowski75 <Chriso75@aol.com> wrote:
>
> "Laura Atkinson" <llatkinson@...> wrote:
> I'm seeing a
> > 100% increase in dry skin since adding a meal of lamb flank at least
> once a
> > week.
> *****
> You sure about this?
> Chris O
>
>
>
> All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying
> on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated
> with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You
> agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal
> responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats,
> ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't
> agree, please unsubscribe immediately.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell

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15. Best type of whole fish?
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 11:23 am ((PDT))

I know wild salmon is probably the best, but on the affordable range, I have the option of purchasing the following for pretty cheap and I was wondering if one variety is better (higher in omegas) than another?

Indian Mackeral
Cod
Pollock
Smelt
Round scad

Any thoughts would be much appreciated!
Thanks!

Sonja

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