[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12001

There are 19 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Yorkshire raw food
From: discernmentone
1b. Re: Yorkshire raw food
From: Giselle

2a. Re: San Diego Resources?
From: Bj
2b. Re: San Diego Resources?
From: Morledzep@aol.com
2c. Re: San Diego Resources?
From: costrowski75
2d. Re: San Diego Resources?
From: diana zarate

3a. Re: questions from newbie
From: wandaful

4a. Re: Vet blames Raw Diet for Coccidia....any thoughts?
From: jmwise80
4b. Re: Vet blames Raw Diet for Coccidia....any thoughts?
From: linoleum5017
4c. Re: Vet blames Raw Diet for Coccidia....any thoughts?
From: Linda Norris

5a. Re: Please reassure me.
From: girlndocs

6a. Re: Fed Only Raw for Four Years - Cannon Butt
From: costrowski75

7a. Re: Trimming...
From: costrowski75
7b. Re: Trimming...
From: costrowski75

8a. Re: emu, ostrich ribs
From: costrowski75

9a. Re: Thank you!
From: Giselle

10. Happy update
From: Elizabeth Funderburk

11. Puppy feeding
From: fairefli

12.1. Re: new member
From: Linda Norris

Messages
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1a. Yorkshire raw food
Posted by: "discernmentone" discernmentone@yahoo.com discernmentone
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 10:44 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE REMEMBER TO SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

I am new to this site. I have no idea what to do to start feeding my
dogs raw food. I am terrified to feed them kibble. I have been
feeding them chicken cooked with rice and veggies with a dog vitamin in
it and they have had diarrhea and now refuse to eat the food. I think
it is because of the vitamin I put in it the last food I didn't put the
viatmin in. Now, I have got Newmans canned dog food until I can
educate myself on how to feed my dogs. I have a 2 year old 5 lb.
female and I am going to breed her this week end. So I have to be very
careful how I present a new feeding process to her. I do not want to
feed her canned food but with the diarrhea I don't think I have a
choice. The food was prepared quickly and put in the refrig. right
away and the rest was frozen so I know they did not get sick from
contaminated food. Any help would be so much appreciated. I do not
know what I would do if anything bad happened to her because of what I
did. But I know one thing for certain, I am not going to continue to
feed her commercial dog food, none of it is safe!

Thank you for any help.

Messages in this topic (2)
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1b. Re: Yorkshire raw food
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 1:09 am ((PDT))

Hi, uh, You didn't tell us your name
Welcome to the raw side! : )
On this list we support the species appropriate raw whole prey model.
Feeding raw doesn't have to be scary, confusing, hard or labor intensive.
My recommendations:

1. You want to start with 2-3% of your dog's ESTIMATED IDEAL ADULT
weight. Tweak with more meat if your dog gets a bit skinny, a bit less
if your dog gets 'fluffy' over the space of a few weeks. You might
start out by weighing your dog, and weighing her meals; but most peeps
don't continue once they get more comfortable and casual about feeding
raw. Tiny, toy, pregnant, puppies or very active dogs might need as
much as 4-5% or more - very large, giant, overweight or couch potato
dogs might need less than 2% to maintain.

2. Ditch the kibble or canned â€" there’s been plenty of discussion on
this list about why processed foods and raw don't mix; just let it
suffice that your dog can reap the benefits of raw faster and more
completely if you donate the kibble to your local shelter asap. A
species appropriate raw whole prey model diet doesn't include kibble.
Or cooked meat. Or veggies, grains or tons of supps. Or, for the most
part, ground meats. No ground bone. No need for w*rec*k bones either.

3. Feed at least 2 meals a day to start with. (three meals for a pup
under 6 months old) Feeding once a day (or even less often) can be a
great feeding plan for a dog, but not at first; too much new food at a
meal can cause digestive upset. Feed as large a portion as you can for
the size of the meal. No little pieces or cut up, ‘bite sized’ chucks.
Dogs need to tear into their food and shear hunks off to swallow and
crunch bone for physical, mental and dental health. They don’t chew or
eat the way we do, their digestion begins in their stomachs, not in
their mouths. So swallowing big hunks of meat and bone is fine. If it
fits, its OK. If it isn’t happy in the stomach, the dog will hork it
up, and re eat it, so it will go down and stay down the 2nd or 3rd
time. All good, that’s the way dogs are.

4. Feed a little less at each meal at first than you think you should.
Too much new food over the course of a day or two can cause digestive
upset, too.

5. Stay with one new protein for at least a week, maybe two. You want
the dog to be showing you he is well adjusted to the new protein
before adding in new stuff. Take it slow; add only one new protein
every week or two.

6. You can switch to a new protein by just serving it at the next
meal, and all the meals after that for a week or so, or you can add a
bite or two of the new protein in with the 'old' protein, gradually
adding more new and less 'old' over several days, until you are
feeding all new and no 'old'. Whatever works for your own dog.

7. Boneless meals tend to produce loose, even runny poops. A judicious
amount of bone in a newbie dog's meal will tend to firm things up.
There will be less poop overall; raw is much more digestible and less
goes to waste. Poops will be less frequent also, for the same reason.
Bone adds bulk, so sloppy poops can be firmed up by some (don't go
overboard!) bone at each meal at first.

8. Chicken is recommended as the first protein to be introduced for
several reasons: its cheap, easy to obtain, easy to cut into different
dog meal sized portions, you can trim visible fat and skin if you need
to tweak, most dogs will eat it and its pretty bland. Read the labels
on the chicken before you buy; don't get any that say its enhanced
with flavoring/seasonings or salt injected. Some dogs get itchy or
vomit or get true diarrhea from enhancements. Whole chickens are the
best to start with, ime. Cut into portion sizes with kitchen shears,
as needed.

9. Some newbie dogs vomit or poop bone bits. There is an adjustment
period, so you want some bone in most meals at first, but too much
bone may not be digested and the dog will just hork it up or poop it
out. NPs, its just the dog's way of saying "Too much right now, thanks."

10. Some dogs will get the Bile Vomits or Bone Bile Vomits (BV or BBV)
when new to raw simply because their schedules or routines of eating
have been changed. When a dog adjusts to raw, his gastric 'juices'
become much more acid, to better digest the raw meat and bone. If he's
expecting a meal at a certain time, the 'juices start flowing' in
anticipation of getting a meal. When the meal doesn't happen, the dog
often will hork up the yellowish, foamyish bile, with or without
bones. Sometimes they hork up BBV because raw digests faster than
kibble, the tummy is empty, so it must be time to eat. NP for the dog,
he's gotten rid of the irritation. He may react as if he feels bad,
just because you are upset that he did it on your new comforter, or on
the white carpet.

11. A lot of dogs don't drink as much water or as frequently when
switched to all raw, all the time. Raw has a pretty high water content
and most dogs are forced by dry as dust kibble to over drink water to
compensate in order for their bodies to process it. If only fed raw,
you don't need to coax your dog to drink more water or even broth,
just offer plenty of fresh water, he'll drink when he needs it.

12. True diarrhea is not just loose, runny or sloppy poops. It is
frequent, liquid or watery explosions of poo that a dog cannot 'hold
back'. True diarrhea, imo, is caused by disease, parasites or
inappropriate food or non food items. The occasional loose poops, even
over a few days, from feeding a few too many boneless meals or
introing a new protein or feeding too much organ at one whack, is not
diarrhea.

13. The general rule of thumb for feeding raw is: 80% meat (muscle,
fat, skin, connective tissue) 10% EDIBLE bone (not all bone that is
served must be consumed) and 10% organs (5% of this is liver, the rest
is as much variety as you can find and afford) This is not an
immutable 'daily requirement'. Balance Over Time, over weeks and
months is one of the raw feeding mottos. ; ) If you feed true whole
prey, that is; entire animals at a time, then the meat to bone to
organ ratios are 'perfect' for that creature. Whatever parts your dog
can eat of is right for him. In the wild, wolves will eat off a large
animal carcass for days, and each wolf gets different parts. If times
are hard, they will consume the entire critter, including skin, fur,
less 'choice' parts and will even crack the hard long bones to get to
the marrow. If pickin's are plentiful, they will eat the easiest and
choice parts, and then move on. Because of variances in size, age,
personality, life experiences and dental ability, a particular dog
will be able to consume, or not: all or part or some or a little bone
from any particular animal. If you feed 'Frankenprey', that is; a
variety of protein, body parts and organs from different animals, to
simulate the whole prey experience for your dogs, you are challenged
to find enough variety in all these aspects for optimal health.

14. Organs - don't try to add a lot of organs or organ variety at
first. An easy way to satisfy the human need to "Do it all, right
now!", is to toss the gizzards and heart you get with your whole
chickens in with a bonier meal, a little piece at a meal. Heart and
gizzards are organs, but should be fed as meatymeat. The liver can be
cut up into teensy bits, and fed a tiny bit at a time with a meal.
This will allow you to feed organs, but shouldn't cause runny stools.
If it does, cut it out and freeze those parts for later down the line.
My list of organs, so I don't forget to look for variety; liver, heart
(fed as meat), cheek meat, head meat, salivary glands, feet, lips,
oxtail, spleen, tongue (usually fed as meat), weasand meat
(esophagus), tripe, stomach, sweetbread (thymus & pancreas), ears,
kidneys, brain, tripe, poultry giblets - heart, liver, gizzard and
snouts. Heads, with all the ‘stuff’, including eyes.
"offal" - viscera and trimmings of a butchered animal often considered
inedible by
humans.

15. SEBP - Slippery Elm Bark Powder. This is a good innocuous herb
that soothes the stomach and digestive system. If you feel you need to
intervene when your dog has loose poops or constipation, this is the
way to go. SEBP is "used to treat diarrhea, constipation, enteritis,
colitis & irritations of the stomach. Used to soothe, protect &
lubricate mucous membranes. Also, used to relieve the discomforts of
kennel cough & other types of bronchitis."
http://fiascofarm.com/herbs/supplements.htm
I use 1 tsp of SEBP to one ounce of ground or chopped chicken. Mix
together and shape enough meatballs for several days doses, and freeze
them. They thaw quickly. For small dogs, divide in 1/2 ounce
meatballs, for large to giant dogs, 1 ounce meatballs. Feed 1 with
each meal. Or, fast for a day, (not for pups, fast for just a meal or
two) offer plenty of water. Feed SEBP meatballs 3-4 times throughout
the day. Feed smaller, more frequent meals for several days after,
gradually increasing the meals and decreasing the SEBP meatballs. You
will often see an increase in mucousy poops with SEBP, this is part of
the way it soothes the digestive system, and the dog's body will do
the same sometimes even without SEBP.

16. You can feed pretty much any animal or animal part that your dog
will eat and that won't break the bank. : ) Common grocery store
variety suffices for some; chicken, turkey, pork, beef, lamb, fish,
rabbit. Others can obtain at a reasonable price and feed; goat,
venison, emu, ostrich, bison, beefalo, elk, mutton, mice, rats, guinea
hen, quail, bear (bear? ;) ), the list goes on and on.

17. If you must supplement, you can add Salmon or Fish Body oil,
either in caps or liquid. Make sure it doesn't have any plant based
oils, like soy, in there. You probably don't need much. Follow the
recommendations that come with the product you buy:
http://timberwolforganics.com/pet-omega-oils

http://www.icelandpure.com/salmon_oil.htm

In the case of true
disease, you may need certain supps, but this is the exception to the
rule, most dogs don’t.

18. Lis' List; ways to creatively source cheaper variety in protein,
parts and organs. FreeCycle and craigslist are great ways to find a
free or cheap freezer to hold all the scores you'll be making!

“ Where do you look for meat suppliers?

Permission to repost from Lis

A) Look up meat and poultry packers, processors, and distributors in
the yellow pages. You may be able to get great prices from them if
you order in bulk, and/or they may have a discount outlet that is
open to the public.
B) I get many of my best deals in Asian/Oriental markets. I've also
heard that Hispanic and Caribbean markets have great variety and
prices too.
C) You may be able to join a barter group.
D) Google breeders (i.e. rabbit, goat, lamb, etc.) who are in your
geographic area. They may have culls they want to get rid of, or
lower prices overall.
E) Look up bulk suppliers and frozen bulk foods in your yellow pages.
F) If you have a Chinatown nearby, definitely make a visit.
G) Let your friends, relatives, and neighbors know you want any
freezer burn or old meat when they clean out their freezers, and tell
them to pass the word along.
H)If you belong to a church or social group, tell those members to
mention it to their friends and relatives as well.
I) See if there are any co-ops or meat buying groups near you. Check
on Yahoo, or Google to see.
J) Try craigslist - it's amazing what you can get for free or cheap.
K) And I get meat and fish all the time (for free) through
FreeCycle. Join multiple lists if there are a few close by.
L) Some Wal-marts and some Costcos and some Sam’s Clubs have good
deals, but you may want to make sure it's not seasoned meat.
M) Definitely watch the flyers, and you can usually see the rest
of the flyers online (the ones that don't get delivered to your house,
but are only a short drive away).
N) *** Hands down, the bulk of my best deals have been marked down
meat at regular grocery stores. They reduce it the day before it is
going to expire, and I go as early as I can to get it before it is
gone.
O) Tell friends and relatives who hunt and fish that you want first
dibs on any body parts they don't. You can probably get at least the
organs and maybe the head. Also ask them to put you in touch with
their other friends who hunt and fish.
P) A great tip I learned here a while back â€" some restaurants
throw out things they don't use, like the organs that come inside
whole poultry, or raw meat that falls on the floor. See if they'll
save them for you. Find somebody who knows somebody who works there.
Q) Farmer's markets are great, but pick and choose carefully for the
best bargains. And sometimes at the end of the day some vendors will
reduce their prices, ‘cause they don't want to take it back with them.
R) Some people contact taxidermists, who have no use for the meat.
S) Find people on this list from your vicinity, and ask them where
they get their meat deals. Join other raw feeding lists (there are
many), and ask if there are other raw feeders in your area.
T) Tell your butcher you want the meat that they would normally
throw out, that is almost out of date, that people ordered and didn't
pick up, stuff that was dropped on the floor, their freezer
cleanouts, and parts that don't sell (like trachea, lungs, spleen,
etc.). Some butchers will save their trim for you (once they get to
know you). Build a relationship with them first.
U) Yes, roadkill works too (where it is legal). In some places you
can get your name on the list and get called when they have large
roadkill. (like deer)
V) You can raise your own meat/poultry if you have the room.
W) Post a message in Carnivore Feed-Supplier or CFS-Canada if you are
in North America:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/CarnivoreFeed-Supplier/
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/CFS-Canada/
X) Speak to local farmers.
Y) Also, look for heart, tongue, and gizzards, which count as meat (as
opposed to organ) in the world of raw feeding, but are often cheaper
than other muscle meats.
Z) Find somebody who knows somebody who works at the grocery store.
They can introduce you to the meat guy, who may become more willing
to save stuff for you or reduce items about to expire, once they know
you.
AA) Check the internet. Some suppliers have affordable prices, even
after shipping costs are calculated.

Lis”

It really isn't that hard to raw feed your dog. There's a learning
curve, definitely. But, that's what this list is here for.
Read as many daily posts as you can, read the files on the website,
and follow those links! Search in the archives for past posts with
keywords; new to raw, newbie, help, how do I start or other words that
reflect your specific search.
TC, and let us know how you and your dog progress!
Oh, and we want puppy pics, too!
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I am new to this site. I have no idea what to do to start feeding my
> dogs raw food.
<snip>
But I know one thing for certain, I am not going to continue to
> feed her commercial dog food, none of it is safe!
>
> Thank you for any help.
>

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: San Diego Resources?
Posted by: "Bj" seawindbullies@yahoo.com seawindbullies
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 10:46 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: DON'T FORGET TO SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

> In a message dated 9/4/2007 7:30:08 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> seawindbullies@... writes:

Thanks, but I think they require paypal though and I will not use
paypal due to past experiences with them. :-(

Messages in this topic (6)
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2b. Re: San Diego Resources?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 10:54 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/4/2007 9:47:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,
seawindbullies@yahoo.com writes:

Thanks, but I think they require paypal though and I will not use
paypal due to past experiences with them. :-(

***recheck the site.. there is a way to use credit cards now.

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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2c. Re: San Diego Resources?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 11:30 pm ((PDT))

"Bj" <seawindbullies@...> wrote:
>
> p.s. I read on a website on raw feeding that heart, tongue, and
> gizzards count as meat so that means one can feed more of these than
> one would of say for instance, liver. Is that right?
*****
Yes.
But they should be introduced with some discretion so as not to produce
unwanted (but not necessarily inappropriate) loose stools.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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2d. Re: San Diego Resources?
Posted by: "diana zarate" zarated5@sbcglobal.net bulliegirl55
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 4:21 am ((PDT))

Hi BJ, I buy part of the meat at Noah's ark Pet wash (noahsarkpetwash.com) in Pacific Beach. They sell a variety of raw dog food. The one I buy is from Bravo brand (bravorawdiet.com) they can put in a big order for you and you just pick it up there the day it arrives. The prices are very reasonable also. Hope this helps.

Diana

Bj <seawindbullies@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hello,

Does anyone know of any good meat sources in San Diego area? Currently
I purchase quite a bit from Simon at Creston Valley and am happy with
the tripe, etc. I get from him. But am looking for other sources to
also if anyone has some suggestions would appreciate.

Thanks very much.

Bj

p.s. I read on a website on raw feeding that heart, tongue, and
gizzards count as meat so that means one can feed more of these than
one would of say for instance, liver. Is that right?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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3a. Re: questions from newbie
Posted by: "wandaful" rondarosa@ftcnet.net rondaros
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 10:52 pm ((PDT))

Just FYI, I tried the suggestion of feeding frozen or partially frozen and my guys both ate it when my pit wouldn't touch anything raw when thawed.
wanda
: >
: > The Dude, won't touch the meaty bones (I've tried wings and
: backs), and will only unenthusiastically eat the muscle/organ/pulped
: veggie mix.

Messages in this topic (8)
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4a. Re: Vet blames Raw Diet for Coccidia....any thoughts?
Posted by: "jmwise80" jmwise80@yahoo.com jmwise80
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 10:52 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Cortney" <cmesthetician@...> wrote:
My
> vet said she wanted to do some research to see if her diet could have
> caused it and called me back saying its linked.

I don't know what causes it or where it even comes from. I just wanted
to point out that I have seen TONS of dogs and puppies with
coccidiosis, as I'm sure alot here have, and I am the only person that
I have actually seen feed raw.

I know those that are ignorant of raw feeding like to blame everything
under the sun on it, but this is just so blatantly false.

Rant over. Sorry.

Michael Wise

Messages in this topic (9)
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4b. Re: Vet blames Raw Diet for Coccidia....any thoughts?
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 10:53 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Cortney" <cmesthetician@...> wrote:
>
> My Chihuahua has been on raw for almost a year with GREAT results!
But I have come up with how I think she got it. Our neighbor has a
chicken coop right next to our back fence. Has anyone EVER heard of
coccidia being realated to a raw diet? >

*****
Cortney,

My puppy had that same coccidae - the vets believe it came from eating
his own poop, deer poop, and anyone else's poop he could get hold of!
Once he started on rawfeeding, he didn't eat any poop. I'm thinking
he had a nutrition deficiency that was finally met with rawfeeding.

Another thing...Since she's been on Albon for the parasite her coat
> looks AWFUL! Not only has it lost pigment and look grey in many
> sections but she's shedding very very badly. Any ideas on food or
> supplements to help her coat recover?

****
No help am I with this portion, sorry.

Lynne

Messages in this topic (9)
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4c. Re: Vet blames Raw Diet for Coccidia....any thoughts?
Posted by: "Linda Norris" rodlinkennels@bellnet.ca rodlinboxers
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 5:19 am ((PDT))

Interesting. I have lots of experience with Coccidia We had it with every litter of puppies and since we went raw only one litter has had positive coccidia results and was cleared up very quickly. The raw diet helps build a strong immune system which can shed these parasites .
My experience anyway.
Linda Norris
rodlinkennels@bellnet..ca
www.rodlinboxers.com
home of naturally reared Boxers and Goldens
----- Original Message -----

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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5a. Re: Please reassure me.
Posted by: "girlndocs" girlndocs@hotmail.com girlndocs
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 10:56 pm ((PDT))

Zoe finished the quarter. I snipped/tore it into chunks and had her
sit for them, and she ate a bunch, and then after our evening walk she
must have been peckish because she polished off the rest without any
hesitation.

Thank you all!

Kristin

Messages in this topic (7)
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6a. Re: Fed Only Raw for Four Years - Cannon Butt
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 11:14 pm ((PDT))

"Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)" <carolyn.garnaas@...> wrote:>
>
> Since my dog did not attend daycare for five straight days (loooong
> weekend at home),
*****
Perhaps your answer is right here. Five straight days of lounging
around for a dog that is quite accustomed to being active could easily
be the upset. Feeding an active amount of food to a suddenly inactive
dog can be a shock to the system indeed.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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7a. Re: Trimming...
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 11:20 pm ((PDT))

"pelle567" <krjoyner@...> wrote:
>
> Do you guys trim your chicken of fat and skin?
*****
If you are removing them because you feel you should, don't. Both are
important in a good raw diet. If you are removing them because of
specific health issues, then continue as long as you need to.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
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7b. Re: Trimming...
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 11:26 pm ((PDT))

"Laura Atkinson" <llatkinson@...> wrote:
I'm seeing a
> 100% increase in dry skin since adding a meal of lamb flank at least
once a
> week.
*****
You sure about this?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
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8a. Re: emu, ostrich ribs
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 11:39 pm ((PDT))

"Bj" <seawindbullies@...> wrote:
>
> anyone feed emu and / or ostrich ribs? Are they good for the
dogs. . .
> I figure the leg bones would be too hard like the bones on big
animals
> usually are but not sure about ribs as I do let my guys have beef
ribs.
*****
Not sure about ostrich ribs but emu ribs are like potato chips and most
dogs that get them eat them right up. However, all the emu ribs I've
seen are virtually meatless. Just some meat stretched quite tautly
across the bones.

Some people feed them with extra meat; for me that would be the only
way they'd quality as useful body parts.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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9a. Re: Thank you!
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 12:55 am ((PDT))

Hi, Melanie!
Sorry for misunderstanding you.

Let me reevaluate and restate what I had posted.

If you use the 3% figure, and she weighs 70 lbs, then she would get...
uh, 2.1 lbs a day.

If you use the more conservative 2% figure, it would be....1.4 lbs
(2 1/2% would be 1.75lbs)

So, guessing the weight of your chicken at.... say, 3 - 4lbs for a
fryer - each chicken would be about 2 days worth of food, plus the
giblets and neck, which can be fed, too.
Unless your chickens are considerably larger than my estimate, or your
70 lb dog needs to eat much less than average to maintain weight, or
needs to lose weight, I think cutting the chicken up into 5 pieces for
5 days worth of meals was too conservative.

Follow me?

So, I don't think your dog will get cannon butt from eating 1/5 of a
chicken (.7 of a lb?)
Instead, I would recommend that you feed two of those pieces tomorrow
and the next day - your choice whether you feed all at once or in 2 meals.
And, I'd be inclined to feed her half a chicken for the next week or
two, at one or two meals a day, until I could tell if she were
gaining, losing, or maintaining her weight - depending on which I
thought needed to happen.

Myself, I don't weigh my Bea's food, nor does she get weighed, 'cept
once a year. But, I do evaluate her appearance frequently, by looking
at her, feeling her ribs, backbone and hips and deciding if she looks
right for her.

Clear, or clear as mud? ; )
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> > If a whole chicken is the ideal daily portion for her, I'd be
> inclined to halve it, and feed two meals a day for a few days.
>
> Actually, I cut the whole chicken into 5 days worth of servings and
> gave her 1 serving (ie: tonight was 1/5 of a chicken) - sorry, my
> confusing post :) Do you still think I should do two meals a day? Or
> maybe judge by her "output" tomorrow? Thx!
>
> Melanie
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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10. Happy update
Posted by: "Elizabeth Funderburk" funder@gmail.com funder_memphis
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 4:20 am ((PDT))

Hi, yall!

It's been almost three weeks since I switched (back) to raw feeding. There
are a lot of new members, so here's the short version - in 2000, I
discovered the puke-named version of raw-prey-model feeding when I wanted to
give my new Lab puppy, Linux, the best life possible. I fed him mostly
chicken leg quarters, with occasional "people food" treats, til about 2004.
I quit feeding raw in large part because my new husband was squicked out by
the crunch-crunch noises and the raw-chicken smell. In October 2006, I
adopted a second Lab pup. I found the new dog (Jaime, but mostly called The
Puppy) on the side of a highway, with a broken pelvis. I nursed him though
that, but then noticed that "adolescent Lab" itchy skin / infected ears
thing that the older dog had suffered through too. My conventional vet
diagnosed Food Allergies, with a recommendation of *absolutely nothing* but
a hypoallergenic Science Diet kibble.

Reality check! Any Labrador rescuers out there will back me up - a Lab
cannot live on kibble alone. And this diet the vet recommended had NO other
components - no rawhide, no pig ears, no cow hooves. If a (poorly bred,
non-hunting or showing) Lab cannot chew on something tasty, he might as well
be put down. Well, the Puppy had itchy skin and infected ears, but I wasn't
ready to throw in the towel on him. The Old Dog, Linux, had gone through
the exact same symptoms that were plaguing the New Dog. Except back in 2000
/ 2001, my vet was a Scientologist on the cheap end of town - he sold me a
very large bottle of doggie ear cleaner, told me how to dose Benadryl, and
sent me on my way. Around the same time, I started feeding the Old Dog
raw. I wasn't keeping a diary or anything, but eventually I noticed that
the Old Dog wasn't getting ear infections and he wasn't scratching as much.

When the New Puppy started scratching and getting ear infections, I decided
husband be damned, I had to try the Pup on raw. I did a little Googling to
catch up on the state-of-the-art and joined this group. Prey model feeding
seemed like exactly what I *was* doing with the old dog, so I took to it
readily. Both the Labs are delighted to crunch-crunch on chicken leg
quarters. My husband is content, because feeding raw is cheaper than the rx
SD kibble. And I'm delighted to be feeding what I feel is the most healthy
diet for the dogs.

Anyway, it's been 3-4 weeks since I started both my Labs on raw food. We
went through a bit of puking and a bit of too-hard poop. Both dogs seem
perfectly happy and healthy, and both are *slightly* calmer. (They're BYB
Labs, they'll never be truly laid-back.) The Old Dog's tartar is clearing
up. The Puppy thought about getting another ear infection, then decided
against it. (He got an ichy ear, with a bit of discharge, for about three
days. Then it went away and his ears have been clean ever since.)

Can't wait to go to the vet with the Puppy for his routine shots and show
him off. I don't comment a lot on this list, but I do think that raw
feeding *IS* the best way to go, and I think any normal dog can do it.

-Elizabeth

--
Time is not measured by a watch, but by moments.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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11. Puppy feeding
Posted by: "fairefli" mommyrn@mac.com fairefli
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 4:27 am ((PDT))

I have been reading to give puppies 2-3% of their estimated full grown
weight. What if you don't know what that is going to be? I have a
collie/poodle mix. Any guesses what she will weight?

Chy

Messages in this topic (1)
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12.1. Re: new member
Posted by: "Linda Norris" rodlinkennels@bellnet.ca rodlinboxers
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2007 5:23 am ((PDT))

Hi BJ
Yes we ended up having c sections with almost every Boxer litter. We did have Goldens as well and we didn't have c Sections with them but our puppies didn't thrive very well. Some due to poor vet care others we don't know just why.
I consulted with a homeopath and she has been helping as well and a real prey diet was suggested. I haven't fed things like veggies or fruit for quite some time now but I was also told that I fed too much chicken.
Linda
Linda Norris
rodlinkennels@bellnet..ca
www.rodlinboxers.com
home of naturally reared Boxers and Goldens

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (67)
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