[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11997

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1.1. Re: New To Raw - Giselle
From: linoleum5017
1.2. Re: New To Raw - Giselle
From: Giselle

2a. Poop issue
From: vickies_28
2b. Re: Poop issue
From: costrowski75
2c. Re: Poop issue
From: Andrea
2d. Re: Poop issue
From: vickies_28
2e. Re: Poop issue
From: Yasuko herron

3a. Re: What is your opinion on this?
From: Vickie
3b. ADMIN/Re: What is your opinion on this?
From: costrowski75
3c. Re: What is your opinion on this?
From: tottime47
3d. Re: What is your opinion on this?
From: Laura Atkinson

4a. Re: performance dogs
From: Michael Moore
4b. Re: performance dogs
From: Linda H. Gower

5a. Re: Coyotes
From: darkstardog

6a. ADMIN/Re: Coyotes
From: costrowski75

7a. Re: Need Advice on what to order? Update on information about their
From: costrowski75

8a. Re: Leg Quarters
From: Olga
8b. Re: Leg Quarters
From: Jamaica
8c. Re: Leg Quarters
From: costrowski75

9a. questions from newbie
From: ekayke
9b. Re: questions from newbie
From: Yasuko herron
9c. Re: questions from newbie
From: Sandee Lee

10a. Re: Hacking question....
From: corndoggirl1977

11. New to the concept of raw.....
From: Bailes2

12. raw for liver disease
From: Jamaica

Messages
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1.1. Re: New To Raw - Giselle
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 7:09 am ((PDT))

Giselle,

I saved the post as well, if you don't mind, to share w/my friends who
are asking about rawfeeding.

Many thanks,
Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Carol!
> I created that as a 'goto' file to save what little rl I
> have left!

Messages in this topic (38)
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1.2. Re: New To Raw - Giselle
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 10:47 am ((PDT))

Hi, Lynne!
Yes that is fine, if you think it will help, use it!
Thanks!
G

> Giselle,
>
> I saved the post as well, if you don't mind, to share w/my friends who
> are asking about raw feeding.
>
> Many thanks,
> Lynne

Messages in this topic (38)
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2a. Poop issue
Posted by: "vickies_28" vickies_28@yahoo.com vickies_28
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 7:12 am ((PDT))

Hi,
I've got some good advice from the folks here, so here is one more for
you - pls help
My pup (6 months old) has been on raw for about 4 weeks. Doing well. I
fed him chicken (all parts with bone), beef, pork with and without
bone, gizzards, liver, heart. He seems not to like beef that much,
would just stare at it, snif and go away, but then eventually will
eat. Same with pork necks (boneless pork seems OK). Chicken - will eat
at any time of the day.
I have been noticing that he doesn't go poo every day. Like yesterday -
no poo at all. Ate beef and pork. But did go 3 times the day before.
And sometimes his poop is not very healthy looking, like dark, mucusy.
Actually we very infrequently get "good looking" poop. I try to
have "bone" days and "no bone" days, so he doesn't get constipated.
How can I add variety and make sure he poops daily and normally.?

Vickie

Messages in this topic (5)
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2b. Re: Poop issue
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 8:45 am ((PDT))

"vickies_28" <vickies_28@...> wrote:
>> I have been noticing that he doesn't go poo every day. Like
yesterday -
> no poo at all.
*****
That's fine. Stool frequency and volume and consistency are based on
the food he eats. If you feed different food, or different amounts, or
a different meat/bone ratio his stools logically and sensibly will
reflect those differences. When you fed kibble you feed exactly,
precisely the same thing each meal so his stools were exactly precisely
the same stool and if they weren't you might well have had reason to
worry about health issues.

Ate beef and pork. But did go 3 times the day before.
*****
Yup, that happens.

> And sometimes his poop is not very healthy looking, like dark,
mucusy.
*****
Mucus generally indicates a bit of irritated lower bowel that was taken
care of quite nicely. If it happens all the time, you should try
changing something--kind of meat, amount, timing, etc.--but it's not
necessarily a sign of poor health and it will likely occur on and off
throughout his raw eating career.

Dark generally indicates the sort of meat you fed. Poultry and pork
are more likely to produce lighter color stools; beef, lamb, goat,
salmon, mackerel, venison, green tripe, organs are more likely to
generate darker, even black, stools. A meal heavy on the bone will
produce whiter stools than a meal without bone. The range of
possibilies will vary from dog to dog.

If the stool color follows logically from the meal, dark is okay. If
there is no earthly justification for dark stool, and certainly if the
dark stool is accompanied by digestive distress, then it might be a
sign of poor health.

Both neither mucus nor dark stool in and of themselves are indications
of ill health.

> Actually we very infrequently get "good looking" poop. I try to
> have "bone" days and "no bone" days, so he doesn't get constipated.
> How can I add variety and make sure he poops daily and normally.?
*****
So far what you describe is normal. You will not get good looking poop
that resembles kibble poop because you are not feeding kibble (and you
do not want to add to a raw diet what goes into kibble!); what you
should expect as "good looking" poop are stools that are logical
conclusions to the meal.

The stools do not have to be carbon copies of each other any more than
meals should be carbon copies of each other. There is a difference
between constipation and not having anything to poop. And soft stools
do not generally indicate distress and are not the same thing as
diarrhea.

I think maybe you just need to lighten up a bit. Sounds like you're
doing fine.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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2c. Re: Poop issue
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 8:45 am ((PDT))

Poo is representative of what went in, so if you are feeding meaty
meals with no bone, you can't expect the poo to look the same as it
would after a chicken meal. Red meats, fatty meats, heart and organs
will produce softer and/or darker stools. You could make sure there
is bone in every meal so that the stools are more consistent. IMO
soft stools aren't a problem, though. My dogs don't always go every
day either.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "vickies_28" <vickies_28@...>
wrote:

> I have been noticing that he doesn't go poo every day. Like
> yesterday - no poo at all. Ate beef and pork. But did go 3 times
> the day before. And sometimes his poop is not very healthy
> looking, like dark, mucusy. Actually we very infrequently
> get "good looking" poop. I try to have "bone" days and "no bone"
> days, so he doesn't get constipated. How can I add variety and
> make sure he poops daily and normally.?

Messages in this topic (5)
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2d. Re: Poop issue
Posted by: "vickies_28" vickies_28@yahoo.com vickies_28
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 9:14 am ((PDT))

Thanks
What about that he doesn't seem to like beef? I put a bowl of beef
chunks in front of him yesterday and he just looked at it and didn't
atetmpt to it. Only after 20 or so min when I handed him a piece he
ate it and finished the rest. And that was the day when he did not
poop and the day after had mucusy dark stools. Could it be that he had
a bit of a tummy problem?
Should I not feed the heart at all - he didn't seem to like it etiher.
Also, I am worried that if I feed only chicken (this is what he
prefers) that he will not get the variety and nutrition he needs for
growth. What supplements can I use? What else would you recommend?
I give him fish oil every now and then with a piece of bread that he
seems to like, but woudn't eat the fish itself. Should I start with a
probiotic?

Vickie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> Poo is representative of what went in, so if you are feeding meaty
> meals with no bone, you can't expect the poo to look the same as it
> would after a chicken meal. Red meats, fatty meats, heart and
organs
> will produce softer and/or darker stools. You could make sure there
> is bone in every meal so that the stools are more consistent. IMO
> soft stools aren't a problem, though. My dogs don't always go every
> day either.
>
> Andrea
>
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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2e. Re: Poop issue
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 9:56 am ((PDT))

>What about that he doesn't seem to like beef?

Hi. Try the same way as you may do with if dog turned the nose up for raw meat.

Try..

1>Quick sear and make it smell good enough to entice the dog to eat

2>put down the meal and wait 20min or so,andif the dog did not eat it take it away and offer nothing but Beef next meal(no treats either)

3>Try put meat in zip bag and put the bag into warm water andbring the meat temp up to smell good

4> Try with flavoring;garlic etc

My question is, how are you feeding beef? Straight from fridge? Frozen? Room Temp?

Sometimes,temp of meat effects eating too.

How long are you feeding raw?

>I put a bowl of beef chunks in front of him yesterday

How much of beef did you give? Did you give Combo meal;chicken that your dog may be well on plus new protins??

Too much new stuff in one sitting cause stomack upset. If you gave all Beef meal,then try combo meal,and increase beef amount gradually.If beef itself seems prob,you can try less fatty cut of Beef or beef you choose and trim visible fat and try feed that.

> Only after 20 or so min when I handed him a piece he ate it and finished the rest.

Try not to help him with meal.If you keep doing that,he may learns that you do it all the time and he may not eat any meal without hand feeding.

>Should I not feed the heart at all - he didn't seem to like it etiher.

Maybe he was waiting to be hand feeding??

but,try feeding one thing at one time.If you feed Boneless Beef and if you sawprob,try combo meal and building up the torelence to Beef first and then,try other part of Beef like Tongue or heart.Heart and Tongue is bit fattier than beef meat I think.So,you may not want to feed big hunk of heart right off the bat.

Try new thing one at a time,then make sure he does well on it andthen move on to the other parts like heart.

.yassy

---------------------------------
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

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Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. Re: What is your opinion on this?
Posted by: "Vickie" dals4creekside@comcast.net vivkie
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 7:18 am ((PDT))

>
> Seriously, I surely manage just fine on what I eat. And I just don't
> get it about the self-indulgence that surrounds food in this
culture.
> What is so much fun about treating yourself badly?
>
>

I guess that would depend on what you crave, like maybe bread, pasta,
sauses to go on the pasta.

Vickie

Messages in this topic (22)
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3b. ADMIN/Re: What is your opinion on this?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 8:48 am ((PDT))

This is not the list for dicussing the human diet. Please take the
conversation elsewhere. Further postings to this topic will be
inexplicably lost.
Chris O
Mod Team

Messages in this topic (22)
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3c. Re: What is your opinion on this?
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 10:33 am ((PDT))

Duh!

Hahahaha, you can sure tell (really red face here) I don't go
to McDonalds, lol......

Carol, Charkee & Moli

> > --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, ginny wilken <gwilken@> wrote:
> > And yes,
> >> she'd feed satin balls, and Mickey D's to her stud dog.
> >> ginny and Tomo

> Big Macs, nothing else. But to me those are death, right up there
> with the deep-fried Twinkies.
>
> ginny and Tomo

Messages in this topic (22)
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3d. Re: What is your opinion on this?
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 10:41 am ((PDT))

Hey, don't diss my twinkies! It's the preservatives in 'em that keep me
looking younger than my <gulp> almost 40 years!

And the dogs like 'em too. "anything's a snack" is our motto.

On 9/4/07, tottime47 <tottime@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > And yes,
> > >> she'd feed satin balls, and Mickey D's to her stud dog.
> > >> ginny and Tomo
>
> > Big Macs, nothing else. But to me those are death, right up there
> > with the deep-fried Twinkies.
> >
> > ginny and Tomo

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell

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Messages in this topic (22)
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4a. Re: performance dogs
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 7:20 am ((PDT))

I've done agility for almost 15 yrs., and my dogs have been rawfed for the last six of those years. The only thing I do differently for my current agility dogs is up the fat portion of their diets just a little when they're training/trialing. They may get a little more "red" meat at those times, but that's coincidence, not planning. Never have any trouble when stamina or energy level, either.

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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4b. Re: performance dogs
Posted by: "Linda H. Gower" pudeltime@bellsouth.net pudeltime
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 9:16 am ((PDT))

Thank you Anne - exactly the kind of reply I wanted - some long term experience. Looks like I'll be packing beef or venison for our trip this weekend.
> I've done agility for almost 15 yrs., and my dogs have been rawfed for the last
> six of those years. The only thing I do differently for my current agility dogs
> is up the fat portion of their diets just a little when they're
> training/trialing. They may get a little more "red" meat at those times, but
> that's coincidence, not planning. Never have any trouble when stamina or energy
> level, either.
--
Linda H. Gower
Mid TN
Lance (SP) AX, AXJ, Delta Pet Partner
Chase, (MP) OA, AXJ
In memory of Cocoa (who started it all)'70-'89
Duncan, UD, NA, NAJ, TDI great little buddy '89-'04
Bonzai, CDX, MX, MXJ, Delta Pet Partner - best partner I could dream fo

Messages in this topic (5)
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5a. Re: Coyotes
Posted by: "darkstardog" darkstardog@charter.net darkstardog
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 7:34 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@...>
wrote: From Wikipedia:
>
>
> The Indian Wolf is thought to have contributed to the development of
> more breeds of dogs than other subspecies. Many of today's wild dogs,
> such as the dingo and the pariah dogs, are descended from this wolf.
> The Indian Wolf is also thought to have bred with descendants of the
> European wolf to create the Mastiffs and eventually leading to the
> development of such diverse breeds as the Pug, the Saint Bernard, and
> the Bloodhound. The Tibetan Mastiff is an example of an ancient breed.
>
> The European wolf, in turn, may have contributed many of its
> attributes to the Spitz dog types, most terriers, and many of today's
> sheepdogs. The Chinese wolf is probably ancestor to the Pekingese and
> toy spaniels, although it is also probable that descendants of the
> Chinese and European wolves encountered each other over the millennia,
> contributing to many of the oriental toy breeds.
>
> The Eastern Timber Wolf is a direct ancestor to most, if not all, of
> the North American northern sled dog types.
etc.

This section surprises me. I would have said this was not the current
thinking. Either I am behind (which is possible) or the person who
wrote this part of the wiki article is misreading the sources.

Marty

Messages in this topic (12)
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6a. ADMIN/Re: Coyotes
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 7:44 am ((PDT))

Time to move coyotes to Rawchat or elsewhere. This list is not about
feeding coyotes or other relatives of the wolf. Rawfeeding uses the
diet of a gray wolf as its feeding model and if you have problems with
this, please take your concerns to RawChat.

Further posts to the topic will probably not make it to this list.
Thank you.
Chris O
Moderation Team

Messages in this topic (12)
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7a. Re: Need Advice on what to order? Update on information about their
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 8:08 am ((PDT))

"Brandi Bryant" <bbryant573@...> wrote:
> The grain fed beef is a no no when you're feeding raw isn't it? :
(*****
Heck, with an unlimited budget (or farming opportunities or both), one
can be incredibly choosy! If you can afford to feed grassfed meats, do
it. By all means, do what you can to get the best quality food into
your dogs AND YOU. If you cannot afford grassfed beef, or you can only
afford it occasionally but you'd really like to include beef in the
menu, then feed the beef you can afford and get on with it.

Often one can feed grassfed beef in ways that do not break the bank;
often one can feed pastured lamb or goat for less money. Perhaps
instead of buying the "for human consumption" beef you might be able to
strike a better deal for the trim?
Chris O

(Oh, and please remember to trim off the old post before you send the
new one.)

Messages in this topic (2)
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8a. Re: Leg Quarters
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 9:34 am ((PDT))

Hi Sam,

Just to help you estimate, I feed my 75 lb greyhound 2-3 chicken leg
quarters per day, depending on how big they are. Glad to hear that
your girl has taken to it well!

Olga

Messages in this topic (26)
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8b. Re: Leg Quarters
Posted by: "Jamaica" ladyhawk@citlink.net ladyhawkjamaica
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 10:33 am ((PDT))

Hi, Sam,

I'm new to the list, but I've fed raw for 5 years. Each of my 3 dogs
gets one leg quarter per day. The two 65 pound, but fairly
low-energy, dogs get the bigger ones, and my high-energy, 35 pound
Brittany gets the smallest one out of the three I have thawed out. I
supplement with eggs year round, and veggies from our garden in the
summer. A given bag of leg quarters might have fairly small ones, to
really big ones, so over the course of a week they get a range of sizes.

They always maintain an ideal weight. I supplement a bit more during
the hunting season for my Brit. But all three dogs have had much more
stable weight since going raw. All three fluctuated quite a bit on
dry. Couldn't keep the Brit from gaining weight in the summer, and
from being too skinny during the hunting season.

If you don't feed veggies or eggs, or other stuff, a big dog will
probably need 2-3 quarters a day, like Olga suggested. It also
depends on their energy level/metabolism.

Regards,
Jamaica
NW AZ

Messages in this topic (26)
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8c. Re: Leg Quarters
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 10:52 am ((PDT))

Jamaica <ladyhawk@...> wrote:
>
> If you don't feed veggies or eggs, or other stuff, a big dog will
> probably need 2-3 quarters a day, like Olga suggested. It also
> depends on their energy level/metabolism.
*****
Since there is no nutritional purpose to vegetation, it should not take
up so much of the diet as to replace a chicken leg quarter. If one is
bound and determined to feed a menu that incorporates vegetables, the
veggies would best be added in after the full 100% of the functional
menu is assembled.

So regardless of how much vegetable stuff one feeds, if the dog needs
(for instance) three leg quarters without veggies it needs three leg
quarters with veggies. If one's intention is to feed a species
appropriate diet.
Chris O

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9a. questions from newbie
Posted by: "ekayke" ekayke@yahoo.com ekayke
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 9:50 am ((PDT))

I just started my dogs on raw this past week, and used chicken as the
protein source. My female Rottweiler, Maxine, loved and devoured every
bite immediately, but the male Rottweiler, The Dude, won't touch the
meaty bones (I've tried wings and backs), and will only
unenthusiastically eat the muscle/organ/pulped veggie mix. (He
literally jumps three feet off the ground when I pull out the kibble--
Nature's Variety Prairie.) But he loves and devours beef knuckle bones.
Should I just not feed him chicken bones and stick to beef and other
larger bones?

Also, I don't think Maxine is chewing the chicken bones enough before
swallowing them. Any advice for slowing her down?

Thanks!
Kay

Messages in this topic (3)
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9b. Re: questions from newbie
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 10:31 am ((PDT))

>I just started my dogs on raw this past week, and used chicken as the protein source. My >female Rottweiler, Maxine, loved and devoured every bite immediately, but the male >Rottweiler, The Dude, won't touch the meaty bones (I've tried wings and backs), and will >only unenthusiastically eat the muscle/organ/pulped veggie mix.

Hi,Kay. Congratulation for the switch to raw feeding.

First thing I notice is that even though you have big dog like Rottie,you feeding small piece of chicken,and then already feeding organs.

Try giving your big dog big piece of chicken;cut up whole chicken to appropriate size (but since you have big dog,you may not need cut-up??),and this way,small piece like wings would not be eaten and gulped and you would not feed almost all bone parts"Back" to dog and it would be better off doing whole chicken than offering parts by parts.Plus,buying parts by parts would end up costy i imagine.

Now,veggie mix, cut this off from meal.They don't need it and I hear that most dogs don't enjoy veggie mush.

This may may not be thecause of your male dog not eating meal entustically.

And,cut off organ for now and with gibblywabbly texture sometimes make dog not eating organs,plus introducing organs too fast end up your dog getting tummy upset..

Try just plain chicken and see if they do better.

>he loves and devours beef knuckle bones.

Weight bearing bone like this is the cause of teeth wear and crack.So,I personally stay away from leg bone from 4 legged animals except Pork.

Try just chicken for now without organ andthen if you like to offer organ after seeing dog does well on chicken, give them chicken and organ (not all organs from chicken but 1 organs of your choice) and then try move to other protin like Beef if you like.

Doing feeding baby step is the key to this feeding.

>Also, I don't think Maxine is chewing the chicken bones enough before swallowing them. >Any advice for slowing her down?

Again,give her big chicken not tiny wings. That would be more meaty and can slow down gulp. But dog does not chew like human,They are like crunch crunch crunch and then get the piece small enough to swallow ,and swallow it.

Hope this helps.

Good luck.

yassy

---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

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Messages in this topic (3)
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9c. Re: questions from newbie
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 10:34 am ((PDT))

Hi Kay,

I would recommend getting a couple of whole chickens and cut them into
quarters. Wings and backs are not meaty bones and are far too small for
your dogs. You can also ditch the veggie mix. Dogs require lots of meat, a
little bone and some organs. Bones should be soft and edible...the large
bones are the ones you want to avoid as they are tooth breakers and wearers.

For now just stick with the chicken until they are eating and digesting
well..then you can add in various other proteins and some organs.

You need to get that kibble out of the house....the smell is powerful and he
may just be holding out, hoping for that tasty food! Chicken is quite bland
in comparison.

Dogs do not need to chew....crunch, crunch, swallow is pretty normal.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "ekayke" <ekayke@yahoo.com>

I just started my dogs on raw this past week, and used chicken as the
protein source. My female Rottweiler, Maxine, loved and devoured every
bite immediately, but the male Rottweiler, The Dude, won't touch the
meaty bones (I've tried wings and backs), and will only
unenthusiastically eat the muscle/organ/pulped veggie mix. (He
literally jumps three feet off the ground when I pull out the kibble--
Nature's Variety Prairie.) But he loves and devours beef knuckle bones.
Should I just not feed him chicken bones and stick to beef and other
larger bones?

Also, I don't think Maxine is chewing the chicken bones enough before
swallowing them. Any advice for slowing her down?

Thanks!
Kay

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Messages in this topic (3)
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10a. Re: Hacking question....
Posted by: "corndoggirl1977" crystalandbrock@bellsouth.net corndoggirl1977
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 9:56 am ((PDT))

Yes, they went to the vet about a month ago. They stayed most of the
day. Could it be from that...a month ago?

Thanks,
Crystal

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11. New to the concept of raw.....
Posted by: "Bailes2" gingerb@comporium.net ginnie4girls
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 10:32 am ((PDT))

I just joined this group to find out about feeding my dogs raw. The food
I've been using is on the list of foods that were stopped from being
imported. I thought I had a good quality food in it. Seeing as I now am
no longer so trusting of it I'd like to learn about raw so I can give my
guys safe food to eat. I have 3 dogs....a 7yo golden mix, a 10mo
lhaso-poo mix, and a 6mo great pyr. They currently go thru a large bag
of dry a month and that's free feeding. The golden is about 52 lbs, the
lhaso is 20lbs, and the pyr pup is at 60 (last weighing). How would I go
about feeding them raw? I've read the best way is just to switch them
cold turkey but the amounts are what I'm not sure about. The golden has
had plenty of bones before. Once deer season kicks in good I usually
have plenty of leg bones for them. Do they need anything else like
supplements? I know you probably get tired of answering the same
questions over and over but I've read on some sites that you ahve to
feed veggies this many times and on other sites that you don't. I'm also
concerned about cost as I ahve a very limited budget for food since my
dh was out of work all summer.

Thanks!
Ginger

Messages in this topic (1)
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12. raw for liver disease
Posted by: "Jamaica" ladyhawk@citlink.net ladyhawkjamaica
Date: Tue Sep 4, 2007 10:39 am ((PDT))

Hello,

I've been feeding raw for 5 years now, but I am new to the list. My
smaller, regular list suggested I try this list for advice.

My 8 1/2 year old Brittany became suddenly ill 10 days ago. She has
always had a couple bouts of "stomach flu" type symptoms per year, so
I thought little of it, as she always was back to normal after 1-2
days. This time she was not. I took her to the vet and blood tests
indicated liver problems. The liver specific test indicated liver
disease. The X-ray indicated a possibly smaller than normal liver.
She has not held down food for 10 days without anti-emetics, and is
now requiring force feeding.

I am taking her to a specialist in 2 days to try and find out what the
problem is. If I find out we can treat her and get her back to a good
quality of life, then I need to know what to feed her.

I am not keen on the theory that limiting her protein intake will give
her liver less work to do and therefore a chance to heal. I went
through that a few years back with my elderly cat with chronic renal
failure. Same theory. I have seen no scientific research that
supports this theory.

So, my question is, anyone out there with a dog diagnosed with
treatable liver disease, what did you feed your dog during the
recovery period, and perhaps thereafter as maintenance?

My secondary question - is it possible her diet caused the liver
disease? Here's what I feed:
-5 days a week one leg quarter each
-1 day a week beef (stew meat or ground beef)
-1 day a week fast with a bone (soup bone, oxtail, pig foot, etc.)
-every other day, with their chicken or beef, one whole egg with some
zucchini, or squash or apple
-in the winter they get more meat and less veggie, as most of their
veggies come from our garden. They get a little apple or carrot one
or two days a week.
-1 meal a week I supplement with a fish oil capsule, a splash of olive
oil, a sprinkle of vitamin powder, and a sprinkle of kelp powder
-occasionally I supplement with plain yogurt
-about once every two-three weeks they get beef liver or chicken liver
-they get varying amounts of table scraps, usually just cleaning the
plates, but occasionally finishing off a leftover of some sort

My brain tells me the diet is fine, the envy of every kibble-fed dog
on the block. My heart worries that I've caused my Brit to get liver
disease with some vitamin deficiency. If you think their diet needs
adjustment, please, please tell me. I don't want the other dogs to
end up like this. Yes, I couldn't help myself, I bought some dog
vitamins yesterday.

Regards,
Jamaica
NW AZ

Messages in this topic (1)
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