[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11800

There are 21 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Pork Neck Bones
From: costrowski75
1b. Re: Pork Neck Bones
From: Sandee Lee
1c. feeding small dog Pork neck bones
From: delcaste
1d. Re: Pork Neck Bones
From: Laurie Swanson
1e. Re: feeding small dog Pork neck bones
From: costrowski75

2a. Re: WHat are sme other organ options besides liver?
From: costrowski75
2b. Re: WHat are sme other organ options besides liver?
From: Lyse Garant
2c. Re: WHat are sme other organ options besides liver?
From: costrowski75
2d. Re: WHat are sme other organ options besides liver?
From: costrowski75
2e. Re: WHat are sme other organ options besides liver?
From: delcaste

3a. Re: Freezer
From: Sandee Lee

4. Re: Animal head
From: Bumble1994@aol.com

5a. lamb shanks (was Re: adding new meats to diet
From: Laurie Swanson

6a. Re: first time to Asian market now with questions
From: delcaste
6b. Re: first time to Asian market now with questions
From: Laurie Swanson

7a. Re: Charkee had a tooth pulled today..........need advice........
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
7b. Re: Charkee had a tooth pulled today..........need advice........
From: ginny wilken

8a. Re: Cow heads?
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

9a. Re: After vomiting,started shaking head frequently..what is wrong wi
From: ginny wilken

10a. Re: Starved Stray Food Suggestions
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

11. changing over to raw for the first time
From: kevinvictorbutton

Messages
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1a. Re: Pork Neck Bones
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:18 pm ((PDT))

"cas22ccrn" <cas22ccrn@...> wrote:
>the bones seem to be very hard, much
> harder than the chicken. Are these ok to feed,
*****
The problem with pork neck bones is not hardness: most pork bones are
edible which is one of the many virtues of pork. The problem with
(most) pork neck bones is lack of meat.

Another potential problem with pork neck bones is the size most are
cut into by overzealous butchers (or those only thinking in terms of
human use).

If they are large--definitely not those 5"x4" or smaller chunks--and
if they are dripping meat--which invariably they are not--I think you
should give them a try. If they're large but appallingly naked, feed
them with added meat unless you know fer shure that your dogs can
comfortably digest a really big bony meal.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
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1b. Re: Pork Neck Bones
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:25 pm ((PDT))

Cindy,

Depends on what they look like, but I would add pork (or lamb, beef, fish)
MEAT rather than bones. Neck bones, unless they are whole, are generally
lacking in meat. Actually anything called "bones" is probably not
appropriate. Shoulder or blade roasts might be a better option.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "cas22ccrn" <cas22ccrn@yahoo.com>

I have been feeding my two greyhounds raw for a little over a month,
RMB of chicken, muscle meat, turkey, some organ meats and they both
have been doing great. I want to try some pork neck bones that I had
read was one of the RMB you can give. Found some for what I think was a
cheap price. Question to all, the bones seem to be very hard, much
harder than the chicken. Are these ok to feed, I was concerned that
they are to hard for the dogs to chew up.

Messages in this topic (9)
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1c. feeding small dog Pork neck bones
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:36 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:

> If they are large--definitely not those 5"x4" or smaller chunks--and
> if they are dripping meat--which invariably they are not--I think you
> should give them a try. If they're large but appallingly naked, feed
> them with added meat unless you know fer shure that your dogs can
> comfortably digest a really big bony meal.
> Chris O

Hello Chris,

Am sure you know by now I have pugs. What do you think of my feeding my
small dogs the small pork necks? They are gulpers, although seem to be
slowing down. Thanks for your help.

Silvina and the pugs

Messages in this topic (9)
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1d. Re: Pork Neck Bones
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:36 pm ((PDT))

My 20 lb. Boston does well with the bone density of these. They are
perfect as far as that goes. They are boney, so I add meat to the
meals. AND, I try to only buy the big ones. I can get big hunks of
them from an Asian market. The small, cut pieces have a lot of sharp
edges and are too easy to gulp. If you have dainty eaters, they MIGHT
be able to do smaller pieces.

Laurie

Messages in this topic (9)
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1e. Re: feeding small dog Pork neck bones
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:41 pm ((PDT))

"delcaste" <delcaste@...> wrote:
>> Am sure you know by now I have pugs. What do you think of my feeding
my
> small dogs the small pork necks? They are gulpers, although seem to
be
> slowing down.
*****
I don't know your pugs of course, but in general the pugs I have met
are no slouches. Nor are they tiny. I think you ought not chance
small bones with gulpers. Feed your pugs big, awkward, clumsy (and
meaty) bones and make them work for their supper. Consider adding meat
to the meal if they aren't used to meals that are heavily bone.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
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2a. Re: WHat are sme other organ options besides liver?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:25 pm ((PDT))

"geraldinebutterfield" <gbutterflied@...> wrote:
>
> Question - if a dog is on a raw diet, and doing well, but does not
> like liver, any kind --- even though its good for them, but they
HATE
> IT, should we make them eat it?
*****
Liver is not negotiable. You don't have to feed much of it--as little
as 3% of the diet is fine--and it doesn't have to be beef or chicken
or whole or fed solo. But it's a necessary evil. What have you tried?

This must sound stupid... but ... do
> wild dogs always eat liver, do they hate it too?
*****
I suspect in the wild whatever's there gets eat lest one goes hungry.
Or, if in the wild one is this picky, one simply dies.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
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2b. Re: WHat are sme other organ options besides liver?
Posted by: "Lyse Garant" lyse_garant@yahoo.com lyse_garant
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:50 pm ((PDT))

You HATE liver, so will your so called BOYZ.,
ACT LKE it's the yummiest ever, you shall see!!

kaebruney <kaebruney@yahoo.com> wrote:
Oka, my boys hat eliver.
I mean HATE it.

I've trtied baking it with garlic, frying it a little.. even mixing it
with egg and rice and still no go.

When I feed it as is, they will eat all their other food first and
leave me little liver strips on the food mats.

So.. what does one feed two dogs who refuse their organ meat?

One of my boys is shedding despite beig short hair and I'm convinced
it's because he's missing his EFA's and Omega 3's. :0(

HELP!...

Kae

Lyse

---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
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2c. Re: WHat are sme other organ options besides liver?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:58 pm ((PDT))

Lyse Garant <lyse_garant@...> wrote:
> So.. what does one feed two dogs who refuse their organ meat?
*****
One can try mixing an ounce or two of ground beef with a half teaspoon
of finely chopped liver to produce one or two meatballs or several tiny
meatballs.

You seem to be stuck on the notion that liver must be fed whole and
solo. It does not. Try the "lots of meat, a tiny bit of liver" combo,
see if that gets the liver down. Also try a different species.

> One of my boys is shedding despite beig short hair and I'm convinced
> it's because he's missing his EFA's and Omega 3's. :0(
>
*****
He won't get them from liver, so don't worry. For these, focus on
flesh and fat, and resort to fish body oil if you need to.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
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2d. Re: WHat are sme other organ options besides liver?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:58 pm ((PDT))

Lyse Garant <lyse_garant@...> wrote:
> So.. what does one feed two dogs who refuse their organ meat?
*****
One can try mixing an ounce or two of ground beef with a half teaspoon
of finely chopped liver to produce one or two meatballs or several tiny
meatballs.

You seem to be stuck on the notion that liver must be fed whole and
solo. It does not. Try the "lots of meat, a tiny bit of liver" combo,
see if that gets the liver down. Also try a different species.

> One of my boys is shedding despite beig short hair and I'm convinced
> it's because he's missing his EFA's and Omega 3's. :0(
>
*****
He won't get them from liver, so don't worry. For these, focus on
flesh and fat, and resort to fish body oil if you need to.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
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2e. Re: WHat are sme other organ options besides liver?
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:03 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kaebruney" <kaebruney@...> wrote:
>
> Oka, my boys hat eliver.
> I mean HATE it.

Hello Kae,

I cut the liver in little squares and freeze and my dog (the one who
wouldn't eat liver) now loves it. I think she's just getting used to
the texture.

Silvina and the pugs

Messages in this topic (10)
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3a. Re: Freezer
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:27 pm ((PDT))

Freezers are great...can't have too many!! :)) But how you store/repackage
the meat depends on what you are buying, how much you feed in a day, etc.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

> Hello, I have been feeding raw for a year now and just bought a freezer! I
am very excited to have a freezer now and can't wait to start buying large
amounts of food. When I buy meat from the store, should I just throw it in
the freezer? Or should I rinse it off then put it in freezer bags then put
it in the freezer? Thanks, Alison

Messages in this topic (7)
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4. Re: Animal head
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:34 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/12/2007 10:04:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com_ (mailto:sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com?Subject=
Re:%20animal%20head) writes:

Anyone has fed animal head?

****
Two of my 3 cats will work on a fish head until they demolish it. Silver is
a stocky Exotic-type guy with a big, round head, himself, and it was so funny
to watch him gnawing on that talapia head that was pretty nearly the size of
his head! I really didn't think he could eat the hardest part (Dennis
couldn't completely demolish his, that time), and it took Silver maybe half an
hour--and I don't mean leaving and coming back, I mean gnawing on it!

Lynda

************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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5a. lamb shanks (was Re: adding new meats to diet
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:35 pm ((PDT))

Should be great. See how he does with the hollow part of the leg
bone. My 20 lb. Boston gnaws the ball joint end and then when he works
on the hollow/marrow part of the bone, I take it away. Sounds like he
could break a tooth, and sometimes the bone breaks into big hunks he
would gulp. I think bigger dogs eat 'em all up fine, though.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Santangelo"
<carol.santangelo@...> wrote:
>
> So I can feed lamb shanks the way they sell it in the grocery store?
Even
> though it has been cut?

Messages in this topic (6)
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6a. Re: first time to Asian market now with questions
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:49 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, and yes. Goat is a favorite around here! This is a good find
> if it isn't expensive!
>
> Andrea

Hi Andrea,

What is a good price for goat? I'm going to try my asian market.

Silvina and the pugs

Messages in this topic (7)
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6b. Re: first time to Asian market now with questions
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:39 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

I'm not Andrea, but I buy goat at an Asian market in Seattle for
2.69/lb. There are a few others that have it for 3.29 & 3.69/lb. I
think.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "delcaste" <delcaste@...> wrote:
> What is a good price for goat? I'm going to try my asian market.
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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7a. Re: Charkee had a tooth pulled today..........need advice........
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:39 pm ((PDT))

My dogs always seem to do great after surgery, and if you are giving him ground meat, it should be ok, just don't give him too much, and make sure it is lean not fatty meats, like turkey, and the chicken. I would give him small amounts, like 1/4 to 1/3 of what he normally gets, just enough to keep him quiet, and keep him happy until he can eat tomorrow. And of course to keep him off your legs, they are after all, raw meat:) He probably won't need the slippery elm, he's just hungry, and you only need that if he has the symptoms for it. No need to treat for upset, without the upset. Now if he does throw up, make sure it wasn't from eating too fast, hand feed if you want, and make him do little sits, and stays for each bite full. That way it takes longer, and it lasts longer too.
They always say not to feed until the next day, just to be safe. I would go ahead with the water too, if he can tolerate it. It's nice and hot here, so they need the water. As long as they can tolerate it, it's ok. A rule of thumb, is, if it goes down and stays down, it's good, if not, don't do anymore. That's why you do small amounts, wait and see, and then do a little more. Hopefully the anesthesia will help him sleep thru the night and stay off your legs.
Good luck.
Jeni

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Messages in this topic (4)
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7b. Re: Charkee had a tooth pulled today..........need advice........
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:52 pm ((PDT))

On Jul 12, 2007, at 7:15 PM, tottime47 wrote:

> If he keeps this down would it be ok to give him more later tonight
> or in the morning?
> I know if he doesn't eat more tonight he's going to wake up chewing
> on my leg till fed........
> Have I already done something wrong?
>
> The vet said not to feed till tomorrow afternoon...

Oh, sure, if he's holding it down. Tomo's been knocked out a zillion
times in his life, and he's never missed dinner the same night. They
process the anesthesia pretty quickly, especially if they're healthy
raw fed dogs:)

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. Re: Cow heads?
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:39 pm ((PDT))

For my dogs, there is really not alot of meat on the head, so it would be recreational, but they would probably have loads of fun with it. Reminds me of the story on here that one time of the dogs in the elk, I died laughing:) Worth running again, especially for those with little dogs, what wonderful little carnIVORES they do make!
Jeni

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Messages in this topic (3)
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9a. Re: After vomiting,started shaking head frequently..what is wrong wi
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:55 pm ((PDT))

On Jul 12, 2007, at 6:29 PM, Bearhair wrote:

>
> Just another reason why dogs should NOT use chopsticks!
>
> Lora

Don't tell Tomo! We eat with chopsticks every day. Tonight it was
salad and beef liver (yes, raw...).

ginny and Tomo, "Stickman"

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (5)
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10a. Re: Starved Stray Food Suggestions
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:50 am ((PDT))

I'm sorry I don't understand, you feed most of your animals raw, but you're not willing to do the same for this creature too? Why not, doesn't it deserve the best also?
If you cook the food, and mix it with other suppliments, whatever the suppliments, you are ruining it, when you cook it. IMHO. Cooking any food, ruins it, and that is why our animals get theirs raw.
Wouldn't the best way to get this animals its needs faster, be to feed it what it needs the way it needs it?
Other than it being underweight, and having no shots, it sounds like a relatively healthy animal, so feeding it raw would be ideal for it. And the best way to get it back to the right weight in the ideal time frame for any animal is this way, eating right, and doing it the right way. If done raw, prey model diet, suppliments from the vet probably wouldn't be needed. Just good whole foods. Get some game hens, and some gizards, hearts, and livers, and your good for a few weeks. See how that goes. Unless there is more information we don't know? My big question for the day is, what is a tortie? I was just thinking with all the shots you talked about it was a dog, it is isn't it?
Jeni

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Messages in this topic (3)
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11. changing over to raw for the first time
Posted by: "kevinvictorbutton" kevinvictorbutton@yahoo.co.uk kevinvictorbutton
Date: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:01 am ((PDT))

hi everyone, i'm new here so haven't found my way round the site
properly yet.
i have a 15 month old female german shepherd. a few months ago a man
stopped me in the street and asked me if the dog had any problems,
as she is skinny. he'd had a gsd who had pancreas problems, and was
always skinny. i took my dog to the vet for a TLI bllod test, which
tests for a condition called EPI, exocrine pancreatic deficiency,
but it was inconclusive. the score was below normal, but not low
enough to be sure. the pancreas doesn't make enough enzymes to
digest the food properly, its not the same as diabetes.
at the moment i'm feeding her on james wellbeloved lamb and
vegetable kibble, plus about 4oz of liquidised raw pancreas. she now
weighs about 28kg, and has 3 good walks/runs per day, covering
between 3-6 miles per day, and loves chasing balls.
having looked on the net, my instinct is now to feed her on a raw
diet, prey model rather than barf. i've read that you shouldn't feed
kibble and raw at the same meal. so my questions are:
1)how do i get going, cold turkey, or gradually, if so how?
2) does anyone have experience of EPI?
3) can anyone recommend a good book to read, if i go down this route
i want to make sure she has all the right vitamins, trace elements
etc.
4)what is the best thing to get started on?
thank you in advance, Linda

Messages in this topic (1)
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