[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11793

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Keeping it all clean
From: carlarae3
1b. Re: Keeping it all clean
From: mz_boomer2
1c. Re: Keeping it all clean
From: Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com
1d. Cutting up chicken
From: Marion
1e. Re: Keeping it all clean
From: aliinfl
1f. Re: Cutting up chicken
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
1g. Re: Cutting up chicken
From: carnesbill

2.1. Re: allergies
From: hjbartling

3a. Re: How much bones?
From: Andrea

4. Re: Not fullly aware of all the plunge entails...
From: Lori Poirier

5. After vomiting,started shaking head frequently..what is wrong with h
From: Yasuko herron

6a. Re: Feeding Giant breed puppy
From: Laura Atkinson

7a. Re: Can't get a solid poop! (was New puppy won't eat)
From: Laura Atkinson

8. Re: Panosteitis/pano
From: Laura Atkinson

9a. vomitting as well...
From: Lyse Garant
9b. Re: vomitting as well...
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
9c. Re: vomitting as well...
From: Yasuko herron
9d. Re: vomitting as well...
From: carnesbill

10a. Fly Issues
From: rosey031801
10b. Re: Fly Issues
From: Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com

11a. Trying to get my little guy on bones, etc.
From: Eve
11b. Re: Trying to get my little guy on bones, etc.
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

12a. Re: squid report
From: Yasuko herron

13a. one more Q, am I wrong for chopping...
From: Lyse Garant
13b. Re: one more Q, am I wrong for chopping...
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Keeping it all clean
Posted by: "carlarae3" carladc2b@charter.net carlarae3
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:02 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Marion" <mbldesigns@...> wrote:
>
>Sheets I think would allow the chicken juices to go through and
contaminate the floor.
My dogs eat pretty fast, so the chicken doesn't spend much time on the
sheet.

>The tablecloths should be alright sitting for 12 hours or so till the
next feeding, right?
I only wash the sheet 1x a week if I remember.

> Glass cutting board? OK, that sounds like it might come cleaner.
I hope you aren't using wood or a poly-plastic cutting board now,
those are no-no's for chicken. I'm not much of an antibacterial soap
user, I just use HOT water and dish soap to clean.

> Scissors to cut chicken? Which type?
Mine are Farberware and I have a pair of Fiskers. I've used them for
a year and never need sharpening. You can also pop alot of the
chicken joints with your hands.

HTH Carla

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: Keeping it all clean
Posted by: "mz_boomer2" mz_boomer2@yahoo.com mz_boomer2
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:03 pm ((PDT))

Okay, here is something that I can contribute to.. since it is a
method I have used for ALL household sanitizing.....

**Moderators: I will keep this short and not stray from too far from
our primary focus, my appologies otherwise.

Use a mixture of HYDROGEN PEROXIDE (3% is safe for food grade) and
water. Aproximately 1 capful for 1 cup of water for proper dilution.

IT IS EXTREMELY SAFE !!! for any creature 2-legged or 4.

Here is a webpage to refer to further educational reference only:

http://www.h2o2-4u.com/house.html

The hollistic benefits are outstanding.

You can get that anywhere for less than a buck and is in nearly every
household.

**Water and white vingar are a must as well. Wonderful solution for
all as well.

Good luck
Pam
Christine & Halo

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Hllywoodcaper7@... wrote:
>
> hmm. . .I am interested as well.
>
>> I was also wondering about cleanliness in the RAW feedings, esp
since we also
> have a 5 yr old child.
>
> Our floors are wood though so I am limited to vinegar and water or
our
> Shaklee products.
>
> >>
> Thanks!
>
> Tamatha
>
>

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: Keeping it all clean
Posted by: "Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com" Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com irishcateyes1
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:37 pm ((PDT))

Thanks for the hydrogen solution mixture and the website link! Great stuff!
Tamatha :)

Any dog can teach a child responsibility and commitment.

A German Shepherd Dog will show the child the meaning
of dedication.

"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life,
his love, his leader. He will be yours faithful and true, to the last beat of
his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." --Unknown

************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Cutting up chicken
Posted by: "Marion" mbldesigns@yahoo.com mbldesigns
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:10 pm ((PDT))

Actually I have to cut the pieces a whole lot smaller for 3 of my
dogs. Bernie the sheltie can sort of chew through the thigh bone, but
not really the leg bone. Connie a 50lb mutt however will swallow his
pieces whole and that includes an entire leg, meat and bone and all.
He choked last night and fell over and this was on a thigh bone. I
dont' know what's wrong with him that he won't chew. His teeth are fine
and he is actually at my feet right now chewing on a stick, though it
is only with his front teeth. Frankie a black lab/blue heeler won't
even touch his chicken unless it's in bite size pieces. He chews a bit
and then swallows. Thankfully the other 3 have figured out how to
chew, but the are bigger dogs. Am I doing something wrong in feeding
these 3 thighs and legs?

Thanks,
Marion

. You can also pop alot of the
> chicken joints with your hands.
>
> HTH Carla
>

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

1e. Re: Keeping it all clean
Posted by: "aliinfl" aliinfl3@aol.com aliinfl
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:12 pm ((PDT))

Marion,since your dogs are so good at eating in one spot why dont you
try cheapo vinyl placements? Same concept as the tablecloth but much
easier to wipe up since they are stiff and you wont be wasting all
that water and electricity using the washing machine so much. I also
would revert back to simple vinegar and water. Bleach[clorine] is
really not healthy for anyone anyway. I am sure you are leary since
your H got so sick, but it's hard to say with 100% certainty that is
was from the meat and he could have as easily caught something from
anywhere,even his desk at work.Bacteria is everywhere and studies
show the worst culprits are countertops,desktops and door handles.So
from this info[and it could even be more so a mental thing],I do use
a separate washcloth or sponge for dishes,than I use for wiping down
countertops/tables.I do have separate veggie and meat boards,but I
throw my meat cutting board in the dishwasher so I cant really help
you there. I dont have to cut up my dog's meat,but meat is meat so I
dont see any reason to use a separate board for them.If the wood
seems too slimey and the glass too loud to you, try plastic. I would
just use a separate washcloth for all the dogs things and hang it up
to dry and reuse for the week or until it started stinking. Like
Chris O,I am not really so concerned with bacteria from my dog's food
being a huge threat since lord knows whats on our shoes or the dogs
paws. I'm more afraid of the handles on the grocery carts cuz I dont
know where those people hands have been!
Alicia~

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Marion LoPrinzi <mbldesigns@...>
wrote:

>
> OK, you're probably wondering why would I be so concerned. Well my
husband is just getting better from 4 days home extremely sick in bed
with food poisoning. He and I ate all the same things, but he cuts up
the chicken because he has the strength to get through the bones (we
have 2 dogs who swallow whole pieces, yikes). We wash our hands
well, but something obviously didn't get washed properly, or maybe
something got splashed. So I need help and recommendations.
>
> Thank you in advance for everything,
> Marion
>

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

1f. Re: Cutting up chicken
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:28 pm ((PDT))

Marion,
If you make the chicken, whole, or half, (and it sounds like your dogs are big enough to handle a half a chicken just fine) it will be in such a big piece that the dog can NOT choke on it, they will HAVE to chew it more to eat it. And they don't have to eat the whole big piece you give them. You can take away whatever they don't eat and give the rest at the next meal. That might help with the choking, and it will help make them chew their food. You have to train them to chew, not let them train you to cut up the food for them.:) And the chewing is important, it keeps the teeth clean and the gums massaged and from getting diseases and stuff. So hang in there and be firm.:)
Jeni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

1g. Re: Cutting up chicken
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:12 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Marion" <mbldesigns@...> wrote:
>
> Actually I have to cut the pieces a whole lot smaller for 3 of my
> dogs. Bernie the sheltie can sort of chew through the thigh
> bone, but
> not really the leg bone.

I wouldn't worry about Bernie. He can get as much of the bone as he
needs and in time will probably get better at eating them.

> Connie a 50lb mutt however will swallow his
> pieces whole and that includes an entire leg, meat and bone
> and all.

I would feed Connie larger pieces. I suggest leg quarters. They
are even cheaper/lb than legs by themselves. Connie doesn't need to
be fed small pieces. She will swallow them whole and sometimes get
choked. :) :) :)

> Frankie a black lab/blue heeler won't
> even touch his chicken unless it's in bite size pieces. He
> chews a bit
> and then swallows.

Frankie is the trainer of the group. He has you trained to do his
work for him. Give him a chicken quarter or something larger and
just stand back and let him do the work. Stay out of his way and
don't hover. If he walks away from it or stops playing with it for
10 minutes, take it up and put it away until next meal. No food or
snacks or treats between meals for Frankie until he learns he must
do his own chewing.

> Am I doing something wrong in feeding
> these 3 thighs and legs?

Legs and thighs are ok for very small dogs. For medium to large
dogs, backs and quarters should be the minimum size.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2.1. Re: allergies
Posted by: "hjbartling" hjbartling@comcast.net hjbartling
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:04 pm ((PDT))

Bill,

I've never heard of it either. But...not dealing with allergies much, I
wondered if a full blown allergic response could involve respiratory
symptoms too. I really think it's environmental. The only reason she
isn't as bad as she was is because we've been in the air conditioning
due to the current heat wave we've been experiencing.

My hours have changed, so there really isn't any need for the premix
now anyway. I'll be continuing just the meat/bones/organs and benadryl
I guess and hope for some relief for her.

Joanne

> I don't think food allergies cause sneezing. If he has a food
> allergy, you will not be able to determine it as long as you feed
> premix. I just made a post in another thread about an elimination
> diet that can be tried to determined if your dog has a food allergy
> and what the allergen is if he does. It will not work with premix
> in the diet.
>
> Bill Carnes
> http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
>
> Feeding Raw since October 2002
>
> "Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
> Dr. Tom Lonsdale
>

Messages in this topic (59)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: How much bones?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:05 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Kate, let's start by changing "raw boney meats" to "raw meaty
bones." You want lots of meat, with only some bone. You can start
feeding your bichon 2-3% of their ideal adult weight every day.
Little dogs often need up to 5% depending on their activity level.
Start on the lower end and if you notice her getting to skinny, add
more food.

Really, you probably don't have to worry about a bloody mouth. Most
dogs are great at cleaning up after themselves. My GSP is primarily
white but he never has stains around his mouth. Well, sometimes if
he eats something like fresh beef heart he'll have a little joker
smile for a couple of minutes, but he wipes his face on his towel and
it is gone. Since your girl has longer fur, you might wipe her face
with a towel if she doesn't clean herself enough for you.

Supermarkets are good places for food finds when there is a sale on.
Keep an eye out for the sale flyers and when you go shopping for
yourself. Depending on where you are in the country, there is
probably a buying group that you can join. When you buy in bulk it
is a whole lot cheaper. I would love to feed nothing but humanely
raised, pasture fed animals, but my pocketbook can't support it. I
do buy it when I find a good deal though. I generally don't buy meat
for more than $1.30/lb, and most often less than $1/lb unless it is
someone's birthday or a holiday.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "deep_ocean_of_sorrow"
<deep_ocean_of_sorrow@...> wrote:

> how much raw boney meats i should give my bichon frise (weighs about
> 17lbs)?

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4. Re: Not fullly aware of all the plunge entails...
Posted by: "Lori Poirier" chaparraltrail@yahoo.com chaparraltrail
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:07 pm ((PDT))

Thanks for the backpacking tips, Jen, and for being nice about it. I got the info from the archives, and it pretty much sound like what I do for human food, except that I use salt as a preservative for mine...not such a good idea for the dog! Guess being dry would keep it fresh enough, even without salt, as long as it was used shortly after dehydration.

RE: I would encourage you to explore your current perceptions of feeding raw and see if it's really as difficult or time-consuming (or expensive or dangerous or whatever might be holding
you back) as you think.

There is nothing in particular holding me back, and as more and more of the meals I am giving are raw, I may end up on an all-raw diet before too long, just by default. I had never heard of an all-raw diet until a few weeks ago, and didn't think other presumed-to be-normal pet owners fed their pets raw. When my former vet found out how I fed, he was horrified, and persuaded me to switch to processed food to my severly epileptic dog, clearly a poor choice, in hindsight. It's nice to know there is a community of people who feed more naturally, to get better information.

Also good to have found a more holistic vet!

Lori

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5. After vomiting,started shaking head frequently..what is wrong with h
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:11 pm ((PDT))

Hi. Today,I got meat box and I was bagging meat and bones in zipbags.

One of them was Mutton. I am not going to introduce the meat yet but I wanted to gather meat before weather get more hot.

I usually give her some sample when bagging because it gives me a good idea whether she is going to hesitate to bite it or ignore it or eat right away,and before introducing meat,I have a little idea what she will be like.

Mutton bone I got did not look shoulder,more like leg bone that I am not comfortable to feed bone to her,so,I got the meat off from bone,and bagged the meat and hold the bone to get meat off a bit for herself before I get toss it.

She did loved it and very motivated.

She wanted to get into marrow too.So, I grabbed a chopstick and slide it inside the bone and she had what she wanted as well as some meat off the bone.

The bone got cleanly meat off,so,I tossed the bone.

A minutes or two later,she vomited white form. I did not get to see closer look if it had bits of meat in it or not but she re-ate it.

I cleaned the area and,I continued what I was doing.

Then,she started shaking head. She should not have problems with mite etc all the sudden so,I wondered if it is something to do with mutton meat.Or,nausea??

Right now,she is under the desk and laying down no head shaking.

Anybody has any ideas why she suddenly started shaking head after re-ate the vomiting?

I am guessing why she vomit was probably too much marrow came out when I poke the bone and too much marrow for her to digest/to get it stay put. I do not think meat was problem because it was probably about 1 table spoon worth meat or so.

thank you

yassy

---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: Feeding Giant breed puppy
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:20 pm ((PDT))

On one of my other lists, a vet just posted a bunch of info on giant breed
puppies and that it's not protein...it's excess calcium with a bunch of
citations to read. I'll get her permission and post 'em to rawchat.

There are plenty of breeders in plenty of breeds who have misconceptions
such as this one based on lack of sufficient knowledge.

On 7/10/07, Angela Brown <irisbarbata@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> ***EDITED BY MODERATOR. PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***
>
>
> There are plenty of raw feeders in the mastiff community as well as
> raw mastiff breeders that would agree with me and I feel confident in
> their knowledge and experience on this topic. I am not talking about
> out of control growth but controlled growth. You can give "too much"
> protein to a mastiff puppy, of this I am certain. If you don't believe
> me then look into it. An example would be giving too much red meat
> like beef.
> Angie Brown
>
> --
> Laura A
> Kaos Siberians http://www.saveourdogs.net
> "Is that soap they're brainwashing you with environmentally safe?"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (18)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: Can't get a solid poop! (was New puppy won't eat)
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:32 pm ((PDT))

Try cutting some of the fatty stuff off. Cut back each meal just a smidge,
amount wise. It's amazing how much just a few ounces seems to affect a
puppy that way.

Other than that...just give him some time to adjust. If, after a couple of
weeks, he's still got sloppy stools, consider a fecal check for parasites.

On 7/11/07, rottinluvr <rottinluv@cox.net> wrote:
>
> Ok, my new guy is eating chicken leg quarters great! I'm feeding him 3-
> 4 times a day. It's averaging about 1.5 to 2# a day.
>
> He still has liquid poop! He's having to go anywhere from every one and
> a half hours to maybe 3 hours tops. I know puppies go quite often, but
> this seems excessive. He's had a total of two semi firm ones in the 6
> days he's been here. He's acting normal... total puppy terror!
>
>

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.saveourdogs.net
"Is that soap they're brainwashing you with environmentally safe?"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8. Re: Panosteitis/pano
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:38 pm ((PDT))

This is forwarded, with permission, from a vet on another one of my lists.
While she's a kibble feeder, so her solution is to go with a large-breed
puppy kibble which has less calcium, a simpler solution for us is to
obviously not feed excessive amounts of calcium (ie bones). I posted this
over to raw chat so it's there for continued discussion should our wonderful
mod team decide this is too OT for rawfeeding.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

It is known since the early 70's that panosteitis is something associated
with fast growth in large breed.

*The protein content is not in cause for panosteitis*. The problem is more
complex than that. The calcium intake is one of the major concerns in large
and giant breed puppies only. There are many studies about it since the
70's.

A miniature breed puppy doesn't have the same needs than a giant breed puppy
as the Chihuahua stop to grow at about 6 months and the Great Dane at about
18 to 24 months.

In the early 80's, there was no puppy food intended for large breed puppies,
but our vet (and the specialist at University of Montreal College of Med Vet
who did the x-rays on some of our dogs) was already changing large breed
puppies with panosteitis to a adult food (lower calcium).

*Nutrition and skeletal development: recent advances*

H.A.W. Hazewinkel DVM, PhD, Dipl. ECVS, Dipl. ECVCN

(…) in Great Danes puppies nourished by the bitch and given in addition a
high Ca diet only at

the age of 3 till 6 weeks, an increased CT-response on plasma Ca increase
could be noticed till the age of

4 months and in all these dogs radiological confirmed enostosis
(panosteitis) could be diagnosed at the

age of 4 months but not in the control fed 1.1%-food all the time
(Hazewinkel et al, 2000). *So temporal*

*high Ca intake, even not noticed by the breeder and new owner, can have
consequences in later life. (…)*

* *

*Preventive Measures in Canine Orthopaedic Medicine *

Åke Hedhammar, DECVIM
Professor Internal Medicine-Companion Animals Department of Small Animal
Clinical Sciences, Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences
Uppsala, Sweden

* *

b. Oversupplementation--excessive amounts of specific nutrients

In our study at Cornell, by design, we used a diet with a high calcium
content (2,1 %). During our study it became apparent that such a high
calcium content add to the detrimental effects of overfeeding. It was
postulated that excessive food--*overfeeding *as well as excessive amounts
of calcium--*oversupplementation *with calcium* is* not compatible with
optimal skeletal characteristics in large sized breeds. The Dutch research
group in Utrecht have then proven that a too high calcium content in a diet
have negative effects also when fed in more restricted amounts *(Goedegebuure
et al. 1986) and that negative effects are not caused by level of protein
(Nap et al. 1991) (…)*

2. Panosteitis

(…)Usage of complete and balanced diets in restricted amount is the only
preventive measures that can be instituted in this condition and of utmost
importance during recovery. As excessive calcium intake during an early
phase of growth (3-6 weeks of age) have been related to panosteitis
(Hazewinkel* et al. 2000), **it is essential to keep the calcium level at an
optimal level already from that age. *

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.saveourdogs.net
"Is that soap they're brainwashing you with environmentally safe?"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. vomitting as well...
Posted by: "Lyse Garant" lyse_garant@yahoo.com lyse_garant
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:12 pm ((PDT))

My 16 week old has been at this for 5 days, beef and chicken only so far, no bones yet, and the stuff is cut up pretty well for him. He has vomitted twice on this diet, but never before. I want to stick to it. Is it over feeding? It really bothers me to see him puke, makes me feel like I'm making him sick on this diet!
Lyse & Guinness

Lyse

---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

9b. Re: vomitting as well...
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:10 pm ((PDT))

Lyse,
Vomitting as well as what else?
And why are you doing beef and Chicken?
When you start out with raw, you should always stick to one source of meat, so you can pinpoint a problem, if one should occur.
You should back off on one meat, I would suggest sticking with just chicken, and doing the whole chicken, not just the meat. Your dog needs the bones too. And the organs. Use the whole chicken. Read the archives here, do some research. But stay on chicken for at least a couple of weeks before you try a different meat source.
What kind of dog do you have, how big is it, and what exactly are you feeding it and how much are you feeding?
And vomiting only two times, is not really bad, maybe just getting used to raw. Does it eat it back up again afterwards? If so, that is ok, and perfectly normal, and no need to worry.
Let us know some more info, and keep us posted, this place is a wealth of information.
Jeni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

9c. Re: vomitting as well...
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:11 pm ((PDT))

>My 16 week old has been at this for 5 days, beef and chicken only so far

Hi. I think that since the dog is still new to this diet,you may want to stick to one protin for about a week or so til he gets use to it,and then introduce next protin source and stay with it a while until he gets used to it and move on to the other will be better.

Maybe too many kinds of meat at one time too soon,although he is not getting to use to this diet yet and vomit I think.

Take a time and he will be fine.

My dog was on chicken one week,no organ,no fish no nothing but chicken til I think she got used to it. I try introducing one thing at a time so that you know what is causing problems.

Good luck!

yassy

---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

9d. Re: vomitting as well...
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:15 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Lyse Garant <lyse_garant@...> wrote:
>
> Is it over feeding? It really bothers me to see him puke, makes
> me feel like I'm making him sick on this diet!

Lyse,

You are being an over protective mommy. You should have him on
chicken only at this point. He is not yet ready for beef. Check out
my web page at http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm to see why.
You are not doing him a favor by feeding him boneless and cutting up
his food. My Thor was eating chicken quarters at 12 weeks, not cut up
and with bone.

I suspect your over protectiveness is causing him to throw up. He is
getting too much food into his stomach too fast to handle. It doesn't
mean you are feeding him too much, it means the food is making it to
his stomach too fast. He should be working at it, ripping and tearing
meat, and crunching bones.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. Fly Issues
Posted by: "rosey031801" rosey031801@sbcglobal.net rosey031801
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:12 pm ((PDT))

"but you really should be picking up the food after he is done"...

I pick up the leftovers and I still have a problem. I think it is the
blood that seeps into the grass. I was sitting on my swing and the flys
were swarming on the grass as if the meat were still there. Gross!!!
I am going to try to spray the grass but will it get on the meat?

Cheryl

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

10b. Re: Fly Issues
Posted by: "Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com" Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com irishcateyes1
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:13 pm ((PDT))

hmm. .I would maybe spray the area down with a hose pipe to disperse and
dilute the juices. No chemicals though as your dog could ingest them from residue
left on the grass and in the soil. Someone mentioned the fly trap
website--that looked really awesome! Tamatha

In a message dated 7/11/2007 5:14:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rosey031801@sbcglobal.net writes:

"but you really should be picking up the food after he is done"...

I pick up the leftovers and I still have a problem. I think it is the
blood that seeps into the grass. I was sitting on my swing and the flys
were swarming on the grass as if the meat were still there. Gross!!!
I am going to try to spray the grass but will it get on the meat?

Cheryl

Any dog can teach a child responsibility and commitment.

A German Shepherd Dog will show the child the meaning
of dedication.

"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life,
his love, his leader. He will be yours faithful and true, to the last beat of
his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." --Unknown

************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. Trying to get my little guy on bones, etc.
Posted by: "Eve" loulou_bean@yahoo.com loulou_bean
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:13 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

Sorry I have quite a few questions, but I'm going into
my third evening on all raw and I'm still a little on
edge as I am hoping he is eating enough. Have been
giving him chicken to start for the week. He finally
started consuming the chicken last night, vs. licking
it as he did the first night. (He's a pekingese.)

Here's my next round of questions:

1. Every so often he gets a funny smell from his
mouth. Don't know if it's coming from his stomach or
from his teeth. (which are yellow, a couple bordering
brown--after just getting them cleaned at the vet a
month ago mind you). I am worried this might be a
bigger problem. How can I get him to start chomping on
and consuming bones so maybe he can "brush" his teeth
and hopefully fix this stinky problem? I seriously can
smell it from across the room--this is worrying me.

2. What are some good second options to chicken for
going into next week? I am not into giving whole
animals with fur and all attached. I want to keep this
fairly bearable for myself as well.

3. Is an organ (if given in a larger amount)
considered one full meal?

4. It's hard to measure if he ate the correct
percentage from what's left on the chicken. I let him
just eat the chicken until he walked away from it as
it seemed like he was full. Is this ok?

5. Would ground bone suffice sometimes for his fill of
bone? How do I go about serving this and where would I
find it? I think someone answered this already but
can't find it but, what are a few good easy, edible
bones for him? How will he know he needs to eat the
bone? For some reason I don't see him wanting to rip
into a bone

6. I haven't seen much on this list about water. I've
read that it's better to give them filtered or even
bottled water vs. regular tap bacause of chemicals,
etc. Any feedback?

7. Can I sometimes feed small chunks of meet as long
as he's chewing it? Or is it almost certain that he
will just swallow them?

8. I am still going to give him fish oil. I used to
open it up and mix it into his food. Now that won't be
so easy. How do I give it to him? The ones I have are
called Skin Formula 3V Caps, which contains fish oil
and omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids. Is this what
I should be giving? Suggestions?

Again, apologies for the lengthy email. Just want to
make it out of the first week without doing too much
damage! :)

Thanks again,
Eve, NY

____________________________________________________________________________________
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
http://sims.yahoo.com/

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

11b. Re: Trying to get my little guy on bones, etc.
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:32 pm ((PDT))

Eve,
You should stay on chicken for a couple of weeks just to make sure all is well, don't rush to change things up so fast, it's not needed, you're doing fine. The whole chicken, with the innards, the gizard, liver, and heart, are all you need for your bones, and organs for the whole diet.. No need to add anything else. At all. Your chicken, has the bones, the meat, and the organs. All wrapped in a neat and tidy package. And letting it eat until it is done is usually fine, unless it is a gulper. Yours sounds like it is doing good.
Cleaning the teeth will take some time, you have lots of buildup on the teeth from old kibble even after the cleaning done professionally. When you can, later, in a couple of weeks, add some pork or beef ribs to the diet, or some pigs feet, and those bones will help with cleaning the teeth, just like eating the chicken bones will.
Organs, alone don't make a good meal. Neither do ground bones alone. When you give the whole chicken, and it eats this whole chicken, eventually it gets all of what it needs. It doesn't have to get all it needs at each individual sitting. It all works out in the wash so to speak.
All chunks of meat are good, feed away. Most bones are good too, except some weight bearing bones, but larger dogs do well with some of those too, it just depends on the dog, you'll find these things out as you go along.
On the fish oil, try later on, giving your dog a fish, see how that works, then you don't have to do the suppliments. I find mine don't like fish.
And on the water, all my dogs get tap outside, filtered inside, that is just how it works out here, and it's totally up to you. I think as long as it is fresh and cold, and not filled with bugs and stuff it will be fine.
Experiment, try new things, but take it slow, work out the kinks first, then move to other stuff, don't take it too fast, and not too much boney stuff all at once, it will make the poops too runny. And that isn't fun.
Keep up the great work
Jeni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12a. Re: squid report
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:28 pm ((PDT))

>the squid was successful in a sense. , i bought them uncleaned, and then snipped out the >beaks with a pair of kitchen shears.

Hi,Tammy.Thank you for the report. I guess some dogs love it and some not too much,then.
I have seen my mom clean squid all the time,so I can imagine what you did to it.

The squid I get to see at fish counter is all frozen and I do not think it had tentacles.

If the price was not too bad,then,I might like to try giving it too.

And, my mom used to make Ika meshi now and then. She stuff the squid body with the teriyaki/soy ginger flavored rice and steam it.She used Mochi gome;much stickier rice than normal Japanese rice.

You can try this while your dog having squid dinner:-P

Kind of feeling nice to have similar meal to dogs togeher,don't you think?

yassy

---------------------------------
No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13a. one more Q, am I wrong for chopping...
Posted by: "Lyse Garant" lyse_garant@yahoo.com lyse_garant
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:30 pm ((PDT))

all of Guinness' meat? The idea of putting a chicken leg on the floor...and I don't have a yard yet. Also the idea of having an entire bone and meat gulped down at once doesn't work for me yet.
Am I wrong for chopping his beef and chicken [so far skinless and boneless breast on the chicken and cheap steaks for the beef] and putting it in a bowl? Also, I will be adding chicken bone-age to the mix today if possible. I think I need a scale so I can more precisely weigh the meat so I don't accidently over feed which might be causing the puking. No, the chicken was not enhanced as far as I know, it was skinless/boneless breasts.

Lyse

---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

13b. Re: one more Q, am I wrong for chopping...
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:11 pm ((PDT))

Yes, he should be doing the chopping with his own teeth, that is best for him, and you should give him a big enough piece that he has to chew it, so if needed give him half the chicken, and let him go. Then take some away when you think he has had his fill. And it isn't supposed to work for you silly, it's supposed to work for the dog:)
Jeni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------