[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11783

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Canned Clams/fish
From: Lyse Garant
1b. Re: Canned Clams/fish
From: Giselle

2a. Re: Fermented stomach grass
From: Lyse Garant

3a. Re: Lethargic dogs
From: pelirojita

4a. Re: Pooping bone - Guidance please
From: Giselle

5a. Re: picky eater
From: wenigj
5b. Re: picky eater
From: Sandee Lee
5c. Re: picky eater
From: Becky Brooks (Marsh)
5d. Re: picky eater
From: carnesbill

6a. Re: GSD diarrhea
From: Giselle

7a. Re: labwork
From: Casey Post
7b. Re: labwork
From: Sandee Lee
7c. Re: labwork
From: cypressbunny

8a. Getting ready to take the plunge!
From: Lori Poirier
8b. Getting ready to take the plunge!
From: costrowski75

9. Feeding Giant breed puppy
From: nathaliebiron

10a. Needing help on my second night of raw
From: Eve
10b. Re: Needing help on my second night of raw
From: Giselle

11a. Re: Agression
From: Dijana

12a. Huma Risks
From: Eve
12b. Re: Huma Risks
From: cypressbunny

13a. Re: Hi guys! Some ?s about GSDs, puppies, and RAW diet :)
From: Rebecca Little

14a. Re: Tooth extraction question
From: Kasandra

15a. Re: Raw and vacations
From: patty89123

16a. Re: Feeding raw bravo food, how much to feed exactly?
From: costrowski75

Messages
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1a. Re: Canned Clams/fish
Posted by: "Lyse Garant" lyse_garant@yahoo.com lyse_garant
Date: Mon Jul 9, 2007 4:19 pm ((PDT))

Hey, with these canned clams, canned mackeral suggestions...aren't those items COOKED?
Lyse & Guinness

Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi. I have seen canned squid in ink. If you were me,do you get it and feed? I was not sure about ink is ok for dog to digest so,I did not get it.

Fresh Squid,I think I saw frozen in package.I do not know if it had cartilige or not.

yassy

PS:I have fed canned clam once and my dog loved it a lot!

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Lyse

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Messages in this topic (10)
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1b. Re: Canned Clams/fish
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Jul 9, 2007 4:58 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Lyse!
Yes, they're cooked!

I wouldn't feed cooked as a regular part of the diet, but do I keep
canned (in water) salmon, mackerel or sardines in the cupboard as a
very infrequent *emergency* meal.

Its fish, it has (soft) bones and doesn't need thawing or refrigeration.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Hey, with these canned clams, canned mackerel suggestions...aren't
those items COOKED?
> Lyse & Guinness

Messages in this topic (10)
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2a. Re: Fermented stomach grass
Posted by: "Lyse Garant" lyse_garant@yahoo.com lyse_garant
Date: Mon Jul 9, 2007 4:20 pm ((PDT))

Hey, at least you're trying! People here shouldn't be so hard on you. And I'm glad you posted your question, because now I won't make that mistake.
Lyse & Guinness

Casey Post <mikken@neo.rr.com> wrote:

>I ordered some fermented beef stomach grass from prey4pets and I have
> tried it on the dogs. Only a tablespoon to see how they reacted.
> Well that night the puppy (8 weeks old) who has been on raw now for 3
> weeks had a vomitting episode that lasted a few hours. Does anyone
> have any experience with fermented grass?

Angela,

My crew wouldn't touch it, but a friend's Rotties absolutely love the
stuff...of course, they'll eat grass out of the lawnmower, too...

They never had any trouble with it, but it sounds like it may be something
to avoid in future for your little one...

Casey

Lyse

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Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. Re: Lethargic dogs
Posted by: "pelirojita" kerrymurray7@gmail.com pelirojita
Date: Mon Jul 9, 2007 4:24 pm ((PDT))

> >
> > >My daughter switched her dogs (German Shep and corgi) to raw
> serveral months ago. They are adjusting ok to the raw diet,
> however, she says that they have lost their energy. Neither dog is
> as energetic or as playful as they used to be.
> > >
> > >
>
Would they mellow out due to heat? It's been in the 100's here and my
dogs are pretty much parked underneath the AC vents and reluctant to
move unless food is involved. My friends with dogs pretty much report
the same behavior in their animals. The only ones still raring to go
are the good desert breeds such as Australian Cattle Dogs. Is it hot
where your daughter lives? Both Corgis and GSDs are colder climate
dogs, no?

Just a thought.

Kerry
Tucson, AZ

Messages in this topic (5)
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4a. Re: Pooping bone - Guidance please
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Jul 9, 2007 4:26 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Caren!
Hoo boy, Poor little guy!

I'd fast him for a day, maybe two. Offer plenty of water. Dose him
with Slippery Elm Bark Powder frequently during the fast days to
soothe his gut.

When you reintroduce food, give boneless meat, chicken is bland, so
its a good choice. But whatever meat he usually eats would be fine, I
think.

I'd offer meals that were 1/4 to 1/3 the size of his normal meals and
feed 3 to 4 times a day until he shows by eliminating normally and
comfortably that his digestive system is back to what it should be.

I'd feed SEBP with each meal, and gradually increase the size of the
meals as you lessen the frequency of them. And reduce the doses and
phase out the SEBP, too. I'd reintroduce bone last of all, when the
meal size is what it should be, and you are sure he is healed.

You know your dog best; so you can guess better if it was stupid
eating on his part and if you need to offer Big Food to eliminate this
problem in the future. Have you ever seen bone bits of any size in his
stool before?

Since this happened when you were gone and someone else was looking
after the dogs, maybe you need to review with your pet sitter what
they know about raw feeding in general and your instructions about
feeding and caring for the dogs in particular. Maybe have her prep and
feed the dogs a meal while you are watching one time. It might be
something different that she does, slightly different routine or where
she feeds each dog in relation to the other that affected him to gulp
a too large piece of bone. Or not. : )

It may have just been a one-in-a-million accident.

At least the bone did pass! My first Schipperke used to swallow
regularly objects that wouldn't. Had several scary, expensive
operations to remove said objects. And innumerable sleepless nights
spent waiting for objects that would eventually pass. Finally, I had
to keep him on lead with me or put him in an ex-pen to prevent him the
run of the house. I've often wondered what effect a raw diet would
have had on his problem.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Dear list members -
> Has anyone experienced this problem? Upon my return home today
from Northern Virginia, my pet sitter called me to say that one of my
Cavalier boys had what she thought to be a bone or rock obstructing
his rectum, and he couldn't poop. Since I was just a few hours away,
I told her I would take care of it when I got home.
> Sure enough, when I got home the bone was half-way out of his
rectum, covered by yellow pus, and his bottom looked red and puckered,
like a pair of lips - sorry if it's graphic. I just trimmed his nails
yesterday so I KNOW this wasn't an issue with him until today. I have
removed the bone, put hydrogen peroxide on his bottom, iced him down
to reduce the swelling, and given him an antibiotic. It's barely
bleeding, if I put pressure on it and the swelling IS going down.
> Is there anything else I need to do to help him out with his sore
bottom? Is there anything I can do to prevent this in the future? (it
was a chicken bone from a chicken leg).
> Thanks for your help:)
> Caren O'Connor
> Nansemond Cavaliers

Messages in this topic (10)
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5a. Re: picky eater
Posted by: "wenigj" wenigj@aol.com wenigj
Date: Mon Jul 9, 2007 4:43 pm ((PDT))

How do we encourage those two to eat? Any advice is
> appreciated!
> Becky
Hi Becky,
I'm pretty new to raw feeding as well and introduced my two dogs
about 2 months ago. I also had a 10 month old and started on chicken
quarters...she looked at it and licked it a little and pretty much
that was it. After a few meals she was eating like a champ. At the
time I was still feeding her two meals a day, so we were starting with
a little smaller amount each time, but for the first meal I pulled
pieces off the chicken and hand fed for awhile, also made sure the
older dog was inside so she would'nt be distracted. She ate the pieces
I hand fed, then I held the bone while she ate, then I finally put it
down and let her finish. It really only took about 5-10 minutes.
Second time, I broke the bone into several pieces and ribboned the
meat a bit before I gave it to her, again separated the dogs so she
could concentrate on her own meal. Don't remember exactly, but about
the 3rd or 4th mealtime, she figured it out. She still eats much
slower than my older dog (13 years old) and when I introduce a new
food she takes her time figuring it out.
Good luck!
Jill W.
>

Messages in this topic (18)
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5b. Re: picky eater
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Jul 9, 2007 7:18 pm ((PDT))

Hi Becky,

Warm it, slice into the meat, sprinkle with Parmesan!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Becky Brooks (Marsh)" <kidcreations1@yahoo.com>

We are new to rawfeeding and have just given our 4 dogs their first
chicken leg quarters today. One ate it right away, one ate it after
about 1 hour of picking at it, burying it, and digging it up again,
and two of the dogs (each 10 months old) just licked theirs and didn't
know what to do. How do we encourage those two to eat? Any advice is
appreciated!

Messages in this topic (18)
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5c. Re: picky eater
Posted by: "Becky Brooks (Marsh)" kidcreations1@yahoo.com kidcreations1
Date: Mon Jul 9, 2007 7:23 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: TRIM YOUR POSTS OR RISK HAVING THEM DELETED.***

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "wenigj" <wenigj@...> wrote:
>Hi Jill,
Thanks for the advice! Three of the four dogs ate, but our Great Dane
puppy (10 months) did not eat at all. We tried mangling the
meat(which worked for our Boxer)and then tried 1/2 chicken, tripe and
beef kidneys, but no luck so far. We'll try again tomorrow with the
chicken and hope she gets the hang of it! Did you have any trouble
with loose stools in the beginning? I once gave my Rott. mix a raw
beef bone and she had major accidents in the house for a week, so I'm
nervous!
Becky

> How do we encourage those two to eat? Any advice is
> > appreciated!
> > Becky
> Hi Becky,
> I'm pretty new to raw feeding as well and introduced my two dogs
> about 2 months ago. I also had a 10 month old and started on chicken
> quarters...she looked at it and licked it a little and pretty much
> that was it. After a few meals she was eating like a champ. At the
> time I was still feeding her two meals a day, so we were starting with
> a little smaller amount each time, but for the first meal I pulled
> pieces off the chicken and hand fed for awhile, also made sure the
> older dog was inside so she would'nt be distracted. She ate the pieces
> I hand fed, then I held the bone while she ate, then I finally put it
> down and let her finish. It really only took about 5-10 minutes.
> Second time, I broke the bone into several pieces and ribboned the
> meat a bit before I gave it to her, again separated the dogs so she
> could concentrate on her own meal. Don't remember exactly, but about
> the 3rd or 4th mealtime, she figured it out. She still eats much
> slower than my older dog (13 years old) and when I introduce a new
> food she takes her time figuring it out.
> Good luck!
> Jill W.
> >
>

Messages in this topic (18)
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5d. Re: picky eater
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Jul 9, 2007 7:27 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Becky Brooks (Marsh)"
<kidcreations1@...> wrote:
>
> How do we encourage those two to eat?
>
The less you do the better off you will be. If you are not careful,
you will create a REAL picky eater. Right now, they just don't know
what to do. Give them the quarter and let them figure it out. As
long as they are playing with it, let them play. Once they leave it
for 10 minutes, take it up until next mealtime then start all over
again. It won't take them long to figure it out.

This is one of those rare problems where encouragment does more harm
than good. Give it to them and get out of their way and let them do
it.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (18)
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6a. Re: GSD diarrhea
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Jul 9, 2007 4:50 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Leslie!
If you can't get SEBP tonight, I'd fast her. Offer plenty of water.

As soon as you can, get the SEBP and feed a few doses a few hours
apart before you offer food.

When you reintroduce food, keep the meals bland (chicken?), boneless
and smaller than usual. Trim off visible fat and skin. Feed small
meals 3-4 times a day, and feed SEBP before you feed.

Gradually increase the size of the meals and reduce the frequency.
Reduce the doses of SEBP gradually, too. Add bone back into her diet
after that. Then, trim less and less of the fat and skin, to bowel
tolerance.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Should I fast her for tonight?
<snip>
> I dont think I can get my hands on any slippery elm bark this evening
> but I can prolly get my hands on some tomorrow so not sure what to do
> for this evening..
>
> Thanks for all the good info-
> Leslie
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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7a. Re: labwork
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Mon Jul 9, 2007 5:08 pm ((PDT))

> Back to the original post, I also have just had my vet tell me that
> my dog's BUN level is elevated, at 31. He is a 3yr old border
> collie and has been raw fed for about 9 months. She said the other
> kidney enzyme was normal, that hydration was a little below normal,
> and that hemoglobin was slightly down but still normal.

And if he was slightly dehydrated, that alone could account for a higher
BUN...

> If anything, I'd rather cut the meat
> a bit with some chopped up veggies, so we've started adding a bit in.

You could also just increase the fat - fat isn't protein...

> Someone suggested fasting before bloodwork, but my vet said that
> will not give us accurate levels, it won't show us the levels he's
> usually walking around with...

Oh for heaven's sake...this is silly unless your dog is eating all day long!
"Fasting" before bloodwork at my house means that the animal goes in for
testing in the morning (no breakfast beforehand). That way, they've been
"fasting" all night long. And the vet should know that the "normals" on the
blood values are BASED on fasting levels. Honestly, the things some vets
say...

>
> A vet friend suggested we do urinalysis with albuminiuria, as that
> will show kidney damage before the BUN does. Still, my question
> remains, how high of a BUN level is too high for the kidneys? Anyone
> familiar with this or know of any studies that has been done?

Ugh. This is one for Carrie as she's way cleverer than I on such matters.
If you're very concerned, Heska makes a early detection test that's
available. Wait, I'll find a link...http://www.heska.com/erd/index.asp.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the protein in a raw diet will
NOT burn out carnivore kidneys. Having lost an animal to renal failure, I
can assure you that if I had the LEAST doubt on this, I wouldn't be feeding
my crew this way (and I certainly wouldn't be feeding it to my 20 year old
cat who has some renal compromise!). You cannot compare the protein in raw
to any of the other "studies" on high protein in renal failure in dogs
simply because the proteins they were using were denatured, rendered, dry
crap. They bore no resemblance to anything occurring in nature and it's
little wonder that carnivores would have a problem with such dietary
abominations. The wonder is that they were able to survive on it as long as
they did.

Casey

Messages in this topic (17)
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7b. Re: labwork
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Jul 9, 2007 7:33 pm ((PDT))

From: "m_towslee" <m_towslee@yahoo.com>

>Back to the original post, I also have just had my vet tell me that
>my dog's BUN level is elevated, at 31. He is a 3yr old border
>collie and has been raw fed for about 9 months. She said the other
>kidney enzyme was normal, that hydration was a little below normal,
>and that hemoglobin was slightly down but still normal.

Elevated BUN can result from dehydration, from stress, from digestion
(because the dog wasn't fasting). With other levels being normal and a
slight elevation, this is nothing to be concerned about.

>She is
>concerned that the raw diet (obviously very high in protein) is
>putting too much strain on his kidneys, and worries that they will
>give out before the rest of him does. She suggested adding rolled
>oats to his diet. Well, my husband and I have dogs, not horses, and
>we'd rather not do that. : ) If anything, I'd rather cut the meat
>a bit with some chopped up veggies, so we've started adding a bit in.

The raw diet as fed is not high in protein...it is high moisture. Protein
does not harm kidneys. Protein is far more beneficial to the organs than
carbohydrates...feeding veggies is not the solution if there even is a
problem, which I highly doubt!

>Someone suggested fasting before bloodwork, but my vet said that
>will not give us accurate levels, it won't show us the levels he's
>usually walking around with...

This has got to be one of the most ridiculous vet statements I have ever
heard! The lab values are based on fasting dogs! How else are you going to
get an accurate reading?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

Messages in this topic (17)
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7c. Re: labwork
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Mon Jul 9, 2007 7:45 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Casey Post" <mikken@...> wrote:
>
> > my dog's BUN level is elevated, at 31.
> > Someone suggested fasting before bloodwork, but my vet said that
> > will not give us accurate levels
> > Still, my question
> > remains, how high of a BUN level is too high for the kidneys?
> Ugh. This is one for Carrie as she's way cleverer than I on such
matters.

*** Carrie has been overwhelmed with personal matters lately, but
I'll drop in quickly to say that your vet needs to put down the
crack pipe. A BUN of 31 is barely elevated at all, only a few
points outside the normal range. Rawfed dogs sometimes have normal
BUNs slightly above the kibblefed average, according to an Antech
study. If the dog was not fasted for at least 8 hours and preferably
12 or more, a BUN of 31 isn't worth worrying about at all. If the
vet thinks fasting doesn't affect blood results, you need a new vet.
BUN *should* be elevated after a meal, especially after a meal of
raw meat, since BUN measures the by-products of protein metabolism.
With a BUN barely above normal and a creatinine within normal, do
not worry about kidney disease, worry more about your vet taking you
for a ride.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (17)
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8a. Getting ready to take the plunge!
Posted by: "Lori Poirier" chaparraltrail@yahoo.com chaparraltrail
Date: Mon Jul 9, 2007 5:24 pm ((PDT))

I feed meat (sometimes cooked, sometimes raw), plus Innova Evo, both canned and kibble. I work very full time, and am not committed to a full raw diet, especially since most of my time off is spent backpacking with my dog...where I am eating "human kibble" AKA dehydrated food...cuz wet food spoils.

Isn't there something to be gained from some raw meat, for those of us who are not going to be feeding a full raw diet? I am asking because I don't want to give partial raw, if it would be harmful, and I doubt my current lifestyle would allow full raw feeding.

Lori

RE: There is nothing to be gained from feeding kibble
once the commitment has been made to feeding a species appropriate
diet

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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8b. Getting ready to take the plunge!
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 9, 2007 7:59 pm ((PDT))

Lori Poirier <chaparraltrail@...> wrote:

> Isn't there something to be gained from some raw meat, for those
of us who are not going to be feeding a full raw diet? I am asking
because I don't want to give partial raw, if it would be harmful, and
I doubt my current lifestyle would allow full raw feeding.
****
I suspect it makes the human feel a lot less guilty about feeding
kibble. Too bad it does little to mitigate the damage that any
carbohydrate-based pseudofood does.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
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9. Feeding Giant breed puppy
Posted by: "nathaliebiron" nathaliebiron@yahoo.ca nathaliebiron
Date: Mon Jul 9, 2007 5:56 pm ((PDT))

Hi everyone!!! Can you give me some advices. I'll have my mastiff
puppy next year and I want to be ready !! Is somebody who have a giant
breed, how did you start, what did you give your puppy (ex.: chicken
neck, chicken leg... etc)

Thank you so much
Nath.

Messages in this topic (1)
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10a. Needing help on my second night of raw
Posted by: "Eve" loulou_bean@yahoo.com loulou_bean
Date: Mon Jul 9, 2007 6:39 pm ((PDT))

Hello,

So following last night's event where I started my 17
lb pekingese on a slab of steak (realizing it was too
small as he scarfed it down whole), he is giving half
a chicken a try as we speak.

I'm not sure what the deal is but he has been licking
the chicken for the past 25 minutes, not really
chewing into it. The only he thing he is chewing on is
the skin, but not ingesting it. I feel like he has no
idea what to do with it. He definitely is more
interested in the skin than the meat.

He he supposed to eat the skin?

How do I get him to actually chew and ingest the meat?
How long should every night's feeding take? I'm used
to him eating within 5 minutes so I'm not sure what to
do. Should I take the food up within a certain period
of time?

Also, should I keep the wings in tact? I thought I
read that they could be a choking hazard.

And I think I'm looking at the chicken's ribs--they
are pretty small and skinny--is this a choking hazard?
Is he supposed to chew and ingest the chicken ribs?

I pulled the insides out of the chicken--You'll have
to forgive me--I don't know what parts each is. They
all kind of look the same. It just looks like kidney
shaped pieces. There are a ton of them. How do I feed
him the insides?

I've noticed after he chews on a beef bone (and he is
now doing it again with the chicken)--he goes into his
crate and lies on his side and scratches at it, growls
and mushes his face on it. Is this normal behavior?
What is it?

One more thing...What is the best raw meaty bone for a
pekingese? A few options would be great.

Sorry for the long email--I am just getting started
and am very nervous! I know it's only the first night,
but It doesn't seem as easy as everyone makes it out
to be;)

Eve, NY

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Messages in this topic (2)
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10b. Re: Needing help on my second night of raw
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Jul 9, 2007 7:37 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Eve!
Slowed him down a bit, did we? ; )

He's new to raw, and its not shaped the way he's used to, nor is it of
an easy size to scarf!

We just need to give him a bit of help to figure out where to start
chewing. Its good that he's working on the skin, it means he's not
into giving up.

As far as his antics with the chicken, who knows? It may just be his
way of showing happiness, or frustration.

Take the half chicken. I know, how to get it from him?! You know those
squidgy things in the paper package you took out of the chicken? Offer
him a chunk of heart or the gizzards, not the really squidgy red
thing, thats liver and you should give him only a tiny bit at each
meal. When you offer this special treat to him, lure him out of the
crate and close the door. Put him outside if you need to, to get the
chicken out of the crate.

Take a pair of kitchen shears or a knife and cut into the meat, making
ribbon like strips that are still attached to the bone. This will give
him plenty of pieces to grab onto and chew. You could remove part of
the skin, since he had a bit of trouble with it, but he'll learn how
to deal with that soon, too. You can do this with each portion you
give him, gradually ribboning less until he can figure out where to
begin on his own.

This should make it easier for him to figure the whole chewing thing
out. Generally, you would want to take up the meal after 10-15 minutes
or when you think he's had enough for a meal or when he walks away
from it after eating all he wants. It really depends.

As long as the wings are on the bird, they're OK to feed. Same with
necks. If it isn't attached to a bigger portion, it encourages
scarfing, and they could choke or have to hork up a whole uncrunched
piece. The chicken ribs are OK, too. Same thing, if its attached to
the bird, its good.

The best raw meaty bone to feed any dog is one that is edible, or
mostly so. This will vary with the size of the dog. Beef bones are
referred to as tooth breakers, not good to feed. They are very dense,
after all, they hold up a pretty huge critter! It is safe, however, to
let your dog strip the meat from any bone that is too dense to
consume, and then take it away.
Its not that hard, really!
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Hello,
>
> So following last night's event where I started my 17
> lb pekingese on a slab of steak (realizing it was too
> small as he scarfed it down whole), he is giving half
> a chicken a try as we speak.
<snip>
I know it's only the first night,
> but It doesn't seem as easy as everyone makes it out
> to be;)
>
> Eve, NY

Messages in this topic (2)
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11a. Re: Agression
Posted by: "Dijana" dpopovic@gmail.com dpopovicmsc
Date: Mon Jul 9, 2007 7:20 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Bynum" <mdbynum@...> wrote:
> And instead of taking
> the bone away, trade it for something really nice like a special
treat or
> toy, so he gets the idea that it is not a big deal if you try to take
the
> bone away.
>
If you really want the dog to get the idea that it is not a big deal if
you try to take the bone away, the best way is to use the bone itself
as the reward - i.e. take the bone, but then give it back right away
and let the dog eat in peace.
If the dog is already very serious about guarding the bone (freezing
upon you approach, whale eye, growling, etc), then it is best to find
an experienced positive trainer to work with you.

Cheers,
Dijana

Messages in this topic (7)
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12a. Huma Risks
Posted by: "Eve" loulou_bean@yahoo.com loulou_bean
Date: Mon Jul 9, 2007 7:20 pm ((PDT))

Hi again,

So here's my question--I am so used to giving my dog
kisses on the mouth--I don't know if anyone thinks it
gross, but I just love him to bits.

I don't know if this is a stupid question, but, now
that he's on the raw diet, should I not do that any
longer? Can I get sick? And the same goes for his long
floppy ears which lay on the raw chicken as he eats.
Is this going to contaminate what he lays on in the
house? He sleeps in our bed, on our pillows and his
face has been in the carcass of a raw chicken!

Any thoughts?

Thanks again,
Eve, NY

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Messages in this topic (2)
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12b. Re: Huma Risks
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Mon Jul 9, 2007 7:35 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Eve <loulou_bean@...> wrote:
>
> I don't know if this is a stupid question, but, now
> that he's on the raw diet, should I not do that any
> longer?

*** Kissing a kibble-fed dog on the mouth is so much grosser than
kissing a rawfed dog! Rawfed dogs have much cleaner mouths than
kibblefed. If the ears are dragging over the food, you might consider
using a snood at feeding time. My long-eared dogs have on occasion
chewed some of their ear feathers off by accident while chewing on raw
food.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (2)
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13a. Re: Hi guys! Some ?s about GSDs, puppies, and RAW diet :)
Posted by: "Rebecca Little" pbgs@delhitel.net canucme278
Date: Mon Jul 9, 2007 7:24 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

Ditto on this!! You may want to do a little searching around for a different breeder. He needs the whole pack to socialize with so just leaving him and having the rest sold and gone at 6 weeks would do no good. In alot of states its aginst the law to sell pups prior to 8 weeks.
Rebecca Little
Peakes Brook German Shepherds
http://sites.centralpets.com/mammals/peakesbrookgsd/index.html

----- Original Message -----
From: streakinsixx
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 9:41 AM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: Hi guys! Some ?s about GSDs, puppies, and RAW diet :)

-Just my two cents, but a reputable breeder should NEVER let a pup go
before 8 weeks.

Good luck.
Jenn

-- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Hllywoodcaper7@... wrote:
>
> > Now we are starting on the right path from the beginning with our
new puppy;
> also a GSD. So, since this is our first puppy on the RAW diet and,
of course,
> we have only limited exposure of this diet from our prior
experience, I am in
> need of some help. :)
>
> We will be picking our puppy up in a few days; he will be 6-7 weeks
old and
> may already be 18 lbs. Someone in another group suggested I should
wait to
> pick him up at 8 weeks to ensure proper "doggie language"
socialization to cut
> down on aggression. Any views?
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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14a. Re: Tooth extraction question
Posted by: "Kasandra" klhesek@yahoo.com klhesek
Date: Mon Jul 9, 2007 7:26 pm ((PDT))

Thanks Krissy. That's what I figured. I just hate feeding him mush
because he's such a gulper.

I am lucky though, my vet knows I feed raw, and he doesn't say a word
to me about it. I actually mentioned it before they did the blood
work, and all he said was "Oh, that's fine. His BUN might be a little
high, but there will be other signs if there's kidney or liver
damage." Yay for vets being moderately informed!

Kasandra, Gypsy, and a still woozy Shady

> Go mushy for at least one week. You're right, you want the gum to
> heal and don't want to tear out the stitches (which means more $$ at
> the vet, and worse - a lecture on the inappropriateness of raw
> feeding...spare me).
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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15a. Re: Raw and vacations
Posted by: "patty89123" dewette123@cs.com patty89123
Date: Mon Jul 9, 2007 7:28 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "trayc2244" <BreeZ119@...> wrote:
y feed him 2-3 meals a day. I don't have any particular
> concerns. I just wanted to hear from some people that might have some
> ideas to make the trip easier in regards to raw feeding.

I just got back from a 10 day family vacation with my papillon and
portioned out ziplocks, dry ice and a cooler worked very well. just
had to remember to thaw the food :)
patty

Messages in this topic (8)
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16a. Re: Feeding raw bravo food, how much to feed exactly?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 9, 2007 7:51 pm ((PDT))

"shefy7" <shefy7@...> wrote:

> Snowy is doing wonderful,
*****
Yes, it certainly sounds like it!

I've got a hold of his hotspots
*****
And if this isn't proof, I don't know what.

In the morning I give him
> meat with bone and in the evening just meat. He gets buffalo,
> chicken, turkey, elk, ostrich, beef, venison, lamb breast,
> tilapia...
*****
Good variety, but it appears you are missing organs. At the very
least feed liver (any kind); 3%-5% of his diet should be liver. You
can feed it often in bits, or occasionally in larger amounts,
depending on his tolerances. But you need to feed it. Also
consider adding heart as a muscle meat and kidney as additional
organ meat.

> He poops pretty regular, usually twice a day, sometimes once.
*****
As long as you feed regular, he's likely to poop regular. It's not
crucial that you feed regular, and likewise it's not crucial that
his poops are regular. This regularity is more for human comfort
than dog. It's not wrong though.

I give him snacks
> throughout the day as well, like frozen chicken paste w/freeze
dried
> lamb or fish or something...
*****
I suggest you ask him to work for these snacks, and that you make
sure they are not adding unwanted weight. He sounds lean and fit
now, keep him that way!

> I want to make sure I'm feeding him correctly since he's competely
> raw.
*****
You are more apt to feed him well on raw even if you aren't
feeding "correctly"! And it's dang near impossible to feed him well
if you are not feeding raw, so you can hardly lose!

He gets ~8oz/day. With 4 in the morning and 4 in the evening.
*****
I think as you gain experience and time on the job, you'll find you
can be more casual with his mealtimse but for now getting everything
stable and keeping it that way is job enough.

I
> think I remember reading that only 10% should be bone. Can someone
> tell me if I'm feeding him right or not?
*****
You don't need to chain yourself to 10% edible bone, but it's an
easy reminder that you do not have to feed lots of bone. And of
course not every day must be precisely right. 10% is the long view,
over time, more or less, sooner or later. Unless the meaty bones
you feed as one meal are in fact mostly bone day after week after
month, you're probably doing fine and dandy with bone.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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