Feed Pets Raw Food: [rawfeeding] Digest Number 11773

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: labwork
From: Carol Santangelo
1b. Re: labwork
From: Sandee Lee
1c. Re: labwork
From: Sandee Lee
1d. Re: labwork
From: darkstardog

2a. Re: Venison and goopy poo
From: costrowski75

3a. Re: i just joined i need some help on raw recipes...
From: costrowski75

4a. new and question
From: Dijana
4b. Re: new and question
From: costrowski75

5a. Re: Vomiting and shapeless poop
From: Yasuko herron
5b. Vomiting and shapeless poop
From: costrowski75

6a. Getting ready to take the plunge!
From: erica
6b. Re: Getting ready to take the plunge!
From: Giselle
6c. Re: Getting ready to take the plunge!
From: Giselle

7a. How do you figure
From: Linda Edgington
7b. Re: How do you figure
From: costrowski75
7c. Re: How do you figure
From: Linda Edgington

8a. Thanks
From: K9FindM@aol.com
8b. Re: Thanks
From: Lyse Garant
8c. Re: Thanks
From: costrowski75

9a. Re: What to try next
From: Sandee Lee

10. Re: Labwork
From: Bumble1994@aol.com

11a. Re: ITS WORKED!!!
From: Katie Baker

12. leg of lamb and chicken questions
From: Mona

13. Newbie - introduction - bought chicken - what to do with it?
From: Jane Walker

14. Eggs and other extras
From: Sheryl Edelen

Messages
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1a. Re: labwork
Posted by: "Carol Santangelo" carol.santangelo@gmail.com santangelo_carol
Date: Sat Jul 7, 2007 7:07 am ((PDT))

I am curious to see the responses to your message...I was told that if I
didn't incorporate some type of grains (i.e. oatmeal) once or twice a week
my dogs would end up with a high pH. The person who told me this also told
me that she knew of someone who didn't feed any grains and her dog ended up
with stones...which was then corrected by adding the grains a couple times a
week. I was following this advice for a few weeks, until my dogs starting
refusing to eat it. I figured if they are refusing it they probably don't
need it.

Carol

On 7/7/07, Laura Wilburn <lamb60@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Both urine came back with high PH and WBC's.

Any thoughts? I am wondering because our guys are getting a higher protein
> diet than kibble fed dogs, does this indeed affect lab values?
> Laura
>
>

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Messages in this topic (5)
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1b. Re: labwork
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Jul 7, 2007 11:09 am ((PDT))

I think most often these slight elevations in various levels is caused by a
number of possible reasons....stress, dehydration, not fasting, etc.

A raw diet is only around 18% protein...that's not high. Certainly not
higher than kibble.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Laura Wilburn" <lamb60@yahoo.com>
> I have been a contributor to this list for the past year or so and have
just been lurking as of late. But, I have a question for the old timers on
this list. I have been feeding RAW close to 2 years and recently had blood
work drawn on my two goldens age 1 and 4. (My 4 yo is an intact male and
the one year old has not been spayed.) Both urine came back with high PH
and WBC's. I am told WBC's can be common in intact males. And my females
blood work showed a sligh elevation in BUN and Urea Nitrogen. My vet knows
(and accepts) they are RAW fed and said it could be diet related. Any
thoughts? I am wondering because our guys are getting a higher protein diet
than kibble fed dogs, does this indeed affect lab values?

Messages in this topic (5)
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1c. Re: labwork
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Jul 7, 2007 11:41 am ((PDT))

That's nonsense, Carol! It's just the opposite....grains would make the
urine more alkaline. Dogs don't need grain and it's not our goal to try and
manipulate urinary pH. If we feed the proper diet...and for carnivores
that means meat, bone and organs...the
pH will be maintained by the body without our intervention or testing! :))

Seriously, their bodies are so sophisticated and designed to keep everything
balanced, we shouldn't think we are smart enough to try and micromanage
every little thing. Just feed them appropriately and let nature take it's
course. Remember that pH (just like blood work) changes constantly. For
the most part, we cannot gauge the success of our diet or our dog's health
on pH or blood readings.

Routinely high pH combined with other symptoms would indicate a urinary
tract infection, which if left untreated could result in crystals or stones
forming. But of course the answer to that would be treat the UTI rather
than try to manipulate diet to change the pH. Unfortunately that's what
many vets try to do tho!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Carol Santangelo" <carol.santangelo@gmail.com>

> I am curious to see the responses to your message...I was told that if I
> didn't incorporate some type of grains (i.e. oatmeal) once or twice a week
> my dogs would end up with a high pH. The person who told me this also
told
> me that she knew of someone who didn't feed any grains and her dog ended
up
> with stones...which was then corrected by adding the grains a couple times
a
> week. I was following this advice for a few weeks, until my dogs starting
> refusing to eat it. I figured if they are refusing it they probably don't
> need it.

Messages in this topic (5)
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1d. Re: labwork
Posted by: "darkstardog" darkstardog@charter.net darkstardog
Date: Sat Jul 7, 2007 12:43 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
>
> A raw diet is only around 18% protein...that's not high. Certainly
not> higher than kibble.
>
>

Sorry, but you need more information to say that a raw diet is not
higher than kibble. You can't compare percent protein directly between
raw meat and kibble. In order to say that a raw diet of 18% protein
isn't high, you have to be specific in what food you're comparing it
to. You would need to know what type of kibble (for instance the type
that says 24% protein on the bag or a higher protein kibble like Evo).
And you would need some idea of how much fat and protein is the
raw diet you are comparing.

In order to make a comparison between two food types, you need to more
information than just the protein percent in the food. The easiest way
is to know what percent of calories in each diet comes from protein
(and what percent from fat and carbs). (And you need to assume that on
the diet in question, a dog would be fed the right amount to maintain
its correct weight.)

If you compare a diet of meat that is 18% protein to a kibble that is
say 24% protein, the amount of protein a dog would get per day would
probably be quite a bit higher in the raw meat diet - but to be on the
sure about the amount, it would be better to know the additional
information that I listed. (What food would you call high in protein
in comparison to normal grocery store kibble if not raw meat?)

In my understanding, a species-appropriate diet for dogs should be
higher in protein than kibble.

It is known that eating a higher protein meal can raise the BUN
slightly although it doesn't always happen. The increase in BUN due to
a higher protein meal is not a worrisome symptom it is just an
expected result of the breakdown of the extra protein. That's why some
people fast the dogs before a blood test - to avoid having that
natural effect of protein metabolism confuse the issue of whether
there is some actual problem. It is described on the Antech link that
was posted too.

I agree (from what I've read, not personal experience) about getting a
urine culture done on dog urine that is very alkaline. Raw meat should
tend to make the urine acid. (I don't know about the effect of bones
in the diet though.)

Marty

Messages in this topic (5)
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2a. Re: Venison and goopy poo
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Jul 7, 2007 7:34 am ((PDT))

Alfonso and Nadia De La Cruz <chickendido@...> wrote:
>
> Ok, it's now been two whole days and my older Yorkie still hasn't
pooped! He hasn't pooped since I fed them the venison July 5th!
*****
Feed a liver meal, that ought to loosen things up. Or dole out a few
extra fish oil capsules. Or both. Or make a slurpy of Slippery Elm
powder. If you are really at wit's end, you can try the old match
trick. Not polite at all and other methods ought to be productive,
but at least it's another option.

My puppy has been "scooting" her butt since the venison, too. I gave
them some chicken today instead and I might toss away the venison
cause I'm scared to feed it now.
They did so well on chicken, beef and pork and now this setback!!!
*****
This is hardly a setback. And I'd be mighty surprised if it's worms,
goodness sakes how vets continue to find new ways to incriminate raw
food. Perhaps you fed more bone than you think, perhaps that's
what's holding things up, assuming they're held up. Was the bone
ground or whole? Ground bone is more likely to stopper things up--if
this is the case absolutely try lubing the tubes.

Other than not defecating, is your older Yorkie displaying any signs
of digestive discomfort? If not, my guess is whatever there was to
poop out has been pooped out. The butt scooting could easily be a
result of the initial (and perhaps only) difficult stool.

Do raw fed dogs get worms more frequently than kibble fed dogs?
*****
No.

her anal area still looks irritated and a bit swollen. Could it just
be plugged anal glands?
*****
Yeah, but my guess is the first stool irritated her bottom and now
the more she fusses with it, the more it bothers her. Perhaps you
need to sooth her bottom topically. I would not be so fast to try to
put meds into her.

Is that possible already in a 20 week old puppy? (She only weighs
1.5 pounds) And if yes, is that something I can look forward to in a
raw fed dog????
*****
I doubt it's anal glands and no, a healthy dog without pre-existing
anal gland problems is not likely to develop them on raw food. A
good raw diet typically offers enough "roughage" in the form of bones
and connective tissue.

>Is it safe to say that my dogs just can't handle very rich things
unless fed with meat?
*****
Almost certainly the venison was "too rich" because it was new to
your dogs. There is no such thing as "too rich" except as it relates
to how each individual dog relates to each individual food. It is
more likely your dogs were responding--normally--to new food, or to
too much new food. In most cases gradual introduction and amount
increase mediates loose stools and other digestive distress. Next
time you introduce a new meat, try adding SOME to a meal you know
from experience to be successful. For your dogs' sake, it would be a
shame for you to junk future venison meals.

Darn venison!!!!
*****
Venison is a fabulous wonderful nutritious meat. Incorporate it into
your feeding plan as much as you can, but feed it more slowly or feed
it as part of a mixed meal.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
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3a. Re: i just joined i need some help on raw recipes...
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Jul 7, 2007 7:49 am ((PDT))

"kittenmitten000" <kittenmitten000@...> wrote:
> hi everyone i just joined im trying to find a good recipes for my
> animals 1 dog 3 cats cause there not liking there food
*****
You might try subbing to the rawcat list for the sort of attention
cats need and demand, but you certainly can get a good raw cat
education on this list if you prefer.

Post message: rawcat@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: rawcat-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: rawcat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

> i go back and forth on chicken and pork and cooked oats
> they like love liver but i was told that its not good giving to them
> every day
*****
Get rid of the grains. No dog or cat needs any grain and no dog or
cat benefits from grain. No veggies either. Chicken and pork are
fine proteins, liver from either animal or from beef is essential and
no, you should not feed it every day unless you are feeding little
tiny bits every day.

A useful guideline for both dogs and cats is 10% edible bone, 5%
liver, 5% other organs, 80% meat. This is big picture stuff, not a
daily requirement. This is an average approximation of what prey
animals offer--from mice all the way up to buffalo. This is as good
a guideline as they come. Offer as a starting amount between 2% and
4% of each animal's ideal adult weight and adjust up or down as
needed.

Your dog and cats need whole bone for nutrition, for clean teeth, for
healthy gums, for fun. So don't overlook them--even though your
animals don't need much, they absolutely need it.

I recommend you browse the list archives:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

And you should check out

http://rawfed.com
http://rawfeddogs.net
http://www.rawfedcats.org/index.htm
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. new and question
Posted by: "Dijana" dpopovic@gmail.com dpopovicmsc
Date: Sat Jul 7, 2007 7:56 am ((PDT))

Hi, I have 2 dogs, both lab/GSD mixes. I had fed them bought ground raw
patties with some meaty bones, but about year and a half ago I switched
to Innova kibble because I had a baby and kibble seemed more practical.
Now that I have more time and energy, I want to start them on the prey
model raw diet.
My question has to do with whole birds. Last time I gave them whole
quails (store-bought, no feathers or head), my male just gulped it
down, while my female did not know what to do with it. She acts like a
typical lab when it comes to food - eats everything and anything, but
when I gave her the quail, she took it, went over and laid down in our
yard and put the quail between her legs and then she just laid there
with the most confused look on her face because she did not know what
to do with it. I guess if I were hunting, she would make a good hunting
dog, but as it is now, I have to rip the quail and give her pieces.
So, for people with labs, how do you teach them that they can eat the
whole bird?

Thanks,
Dijana

Messages in this topic (2)
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4b. Re: new and question
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Jul 7, 2007 10:37 am ((PDT))

"Dijana" <dpopovic@...> wrote:
I guess if I were hunting, she would make a good hunting
> dog, but as it is now, I have to rip the quail and give her pieces.
> So, for people with labs, how do you teach them that they can eat the
> whole bird?
*****
It's not a breedwide behavior, I guarantee! Up until recently, until
old age and/or a lifetime of less than brilliant choices on my part, I
was feeding two Labs and four golden retrievers. Now I'm feeding a Lab
and two goldens (and a bc). All were/are field trained to lesser or
greater degrees (except the bc).

My little Lab ate everything. Fur, no fur, feathers, no feathers,
hunks, wholes, ground, old, new, frozen, thawed, four legs, two legs,
no legs--she ate it happily. OTOH, my going-on nine Lab is very
careful with his food. He will not eat fur or feathers. He will not
eat whole, unprocessed prey. He will not eat whole fish except
sardines occasionally. It just doesn't happen. He's willing to fetch
these meals for me but he will not eat them. If he were fending for
himself, he'd probably die. But he's not and since it doesn't bother
me to prep his food, I do.

Of my two current goldens, the girl eats whatever I give her, whole or
otherwise; she will catch prey but will not eat it. (Her daddy, dearly
departed, would eat some fully-clad critters but not everything I
offered.) The other golden will eat rabbit if it's dressed, is not keen
on feathers and though he is delighted to work on whole calf or lamb
legs he will not eat whole unprocessed goat. This dude has never
intentionally touched a paw to a meal; I am not surprised by his
unwillingness to tackle whole food.

So. It's not a breed thing necessarily, but it may be some personal
code of ethics, some higher calling that we humans are not privy to.
You can try starving her into eating the birds, but that may be more a
battle than the issue demands. Time might acclimate her into accepting
whole birds. Perhaps offering ever larger bird chunks will ease her
into eating whole birds. You may wind up plucking birds.

I hope to be getting a bunch of whole chickens this summer, should be
interesting to see who is willing to eat what.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. Re: Vomiting and shapeless poop
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Jul 7, 2007 8:04 am ((PDT))

>Chalky, crumbly poops indicate DIGESTED bone if the amount digested
>was calcium in excess of what the dog needed. That's too much
>dietary bone. Bone bit vomiting is about too much UNDIGESTED bone.

Hi,Chris. Thank you again for detail.
Now I see undigested too much bone (vomit)and digested too much bone(chalky poop).That is right.I understand why too much bone can be cause of vomiting now.

> How do you tell need to pull out the protin from feeding plan and just need to get used to >the new protin?
*****
>you have to try out different proteins and try out different way to present the
>protein that you think maybe are causing problems.

I have heard that if the dog started scratching (alergy),then,you need to food elimination diet and I think you are telling me here about.And if we identify the source of sctraching,then pull out from feeding plan.I undertsand that.

If the dog got shapless gooy poop,then,it is either too much food,too soon new protin,too rich or somethning else.

I remember someone was feeding herring and you suggested to stop feeding herring and introduce again later. Is it because you thought it was too soon to introduce?

I am so far lucky with my dog and never had long shapless/diarrhea poop days,but do you pull out items from feeding plan if the dog kept shapless pooping all the time regardless you try to introduce the new protin from small amount?

yassy

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Messages in this topic (10)
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5b. Vomiting and shapeless poop
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Jul 7, 2007 8:56 am ((PDT))

Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
> I have heard that if the dog started scratching (alergy),then,you
need to food elimination diet and I think you are telling me here
about.And if we identify the source of sctraching,then pull out from
feeding plan.I undertsand that.
*****
Yes, this is an excellent way to see if a food is causing the
itching. But it would be incorrect to assume straight away that the
food is responsible for the itching. If the dog wasn't itching
before trying the food but starts itching immediately after trying
the food, it's a good bet the food caused the itching. But sometimes
it is not so easy to figure out. Oten you have to look at changes in
medications or consider environmental irritatants. And sometimes
it's not the meat protein but chemicals added to the meat by the
producer.

Often you have to be a histamine detective.

> I remember someone was feeding herring and you suggested to stop
feeding herring and introduce again later. Is it because you thought
it was too soon to introduce?
*****
Yes. It may be that the dog will NEVER like herring but sometimes a
new food can be preceived as unappealing when first introduced but
welcomed on second try. Perhaps some dogs think "oh ick, this tastes
weird" the first time, but later they think "oh, yeah, I had this
before, it's okay". Sometimes dogs just need more experience.
Sometimes people need more experience. Maybe the second time instead
of feeding a whole meal of herring, you feed one, or a filet.

do you pull out items from feeding plan if the dog kept shapless
pooping all the time regardless you try to introduce the new protin
from small amount?
*****
That would be a reasonable decision, yes. If there's no other
explanation for repeated digestive upset, then get rid of the
offending food. If it's not an important food, maybe the dog never
gets it again. If it's a food you really want to include in the
menu, then perhaps trying again later makes sense.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
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6a. Getting ready to take the plunge!
Posted by: "erica" ericagordon@sbcglobal.net ericagsweet
Date: Sat Jul 7, 2007 8:42 am ((PDT))

Once Sophie finishes her kibble we will be switching her to raw! We
know not to mix the 2! She is a rescue that we have had her for 2
1/2 years the vet beleives she is middle aged 7-8 years old. She
spent over a year in the pound prior to our rescue. Her front teeth
top & bottom are worn down to the gums. We were told that she is an
American bulldog am-staff mix. She is about 55 lbs, she is fixed &
had a rather large mammory tumor removed when we adopted her. She
was also treated for whip worm when we first got her. She had mucus
& blood in her stools & often had very loose stools during her first
year with is. She was tested for various bacteria through stool
collection. Nothing was ever found. She was on a chicken & rice
kibble diet during this time. Also we were in a small apartment at
that time. We moved & changed her diet all around the same time.
She has since been changed to a different brand diet & lamb & rice
rathen than chicken, & her stools have been good ever since. So is
this any indication that she will have problems with chicken? Or
are there to many factors to determine that? Would you still
reccomend starting with whole chickens in this case? We have been
shopping around for good meat prices & are anxiuos to begin the raw
diet. Also do you have any trouble kenneling your dog on raw? We
take a couple trips a year & are wondering if the kennel will
accomodate us? I know that they carry Oma's Pride so I assume that
they would be our best bet. Any advice as we begin the new diet
would be much appreciated. I have been lurking for a few weeks &
I've found you all to be so helpful! She is such a sweet girl who
loves to eat, I can't wait to see what she does when given raw!

Thanks,
Erica

Messages in this topic (3)
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6b. Re: Getting ready to take the plunge!
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sat Jul 7, 2007 9:44 am ((PDT))

Hi, Erica!
Toss that kibble out and start raw right now! : )
Didn't you just *know* I was going to say that? ; )
Just because a dog has had an intolerance to chicken or any protein
when in processed kibble, doesn't mean that they won't be able to
tolerate it raw. Quite the contrary, in fact. Raw is so much more
digestible than cooked.
Stools are different on raw, and there is an adjustment period. Don't
let this discourage you.
You could start with chicken, but its not mandatory. Its recommended
as a first protein so much 'cause its cheap, easily obtained, is
pretty bland, has edible bone, comes packaged with its own liver and
can be easily sectioned into parts that suit most sized dogs. Just be
sure the chickens you buy are not enhanced with salt solution,
flavorings or seasonings. It will say so on the label, if it is. You
could start with turkey or pork, or whatever you want to start with.
Any boarding kennel worth taking your dog to will be accommodating and
feed what diet you want your dog to have. If the boarding kennel sells
dog food, you might have a harder time enforcing your dog's dietary
needs, not an easier one. JMO Its helpful to have your dog adapted to
a raw diet before boarding, for a couple months, ime, so the *kinks*
are worked out. Have each meal separately frozen in a plastic zippy
bag, as many as you need for the stay. Label each bag for who it is
for and when to feed (if it matters) clearly in large print in
permanent marker. To make it easy for the kennel help to feed your
dog, I'd suggest using only one protein, something not too squidgy or
difficult to feed/consume. I type up everything I want the kennel to
know, about feeding and everything else, and place each sheet in clear
page protectors and hold them together with a large paper clip. I ask
them to post this on the kennel where my dog will be kept. Try to keep
the list short, bulleted and in a large font for easy reading.

> Once Sophie finishes her kibble we will be switching her to raw! We
> know not to mix the 2! She is a rescue that we have had her for 2
> 1/2 years the vet believes she is middle aged 7-8 years old. She
> spent over a year in the pound prior to our rescue. Her front teeth
> top & bottom are worn down to the gums. We were told that she is an
> American bulldog am-staff mix. She is about 55 lbs, she is fixed &
> had a rather large mammary tumor removed when we adopted her. She
> was also treated for whip worm when we first got her. She had mucus
> & blood in her stools & often had very loose stools during her first
> year with is. She was tested for various bacteria through stool
> collection. Nothing was ever found. She was on a chicken & rice
> kibble diet during this time. Also we were in a small apartment at
> that time. We moved & changed her diet all around the same time.
> She has since been changed to a different brand diet & lamb & rice
> rather than chicken, & her stools have been good ever since. So is
> this any indication that she will have problems with chicken? Or
> are there to many factors to determine that? Would you still
> recommend starting with whole chickens in this case? We have been
> shopping around for good meat prices & are anxious to begin the raw
> diet. Also do you have any trouble kenneling your dog on raw? We
> take a couple trips a year & are wondering if the kennel will
> accommodate us? I know that they carry Oma's Pride so I assume that
> they would be our best bet. Any advice as we begin the new diet
> would be much appreciated. I have been lurking for a few weeks &
> I've found you all to be so helpful! She is such a sweet girl who
> loves to eat, I can't wait to see what she does when given raw!
>
> Thanks,
> Erica
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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6c. Re: Getting ready to take the plunge!
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sat Jul 7, 2007 9:45 am ((PDT))

> Once Sophie finishes her kibble we will be switching her to raw! We
> know not to mix the 2!
> She has since been changed to a different brand diet & lamb & rice
> rather than chicken, & her stools have been good ever since. So is
> this any indication that she will have problems with chicken? Or
> are there to many factors to determine that? Would you still
> recommend starting with whole chickens in this case? Also do you
have any trouble kenneling your dog on raw? We
> take a couple trips a year & are wondering if the kennel will
> accommodate us? I know that they carry Oma's Pride so I assume that
> they would be our best bet. Any advice as we begin the new diet
> would be much appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Erica
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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7a. How do you figure
Posted by: "Linda Edgington" lindagail849@yahoo.com lindagail849
Date: Sat Jul 7, 2007 9:00 am ((PDT))

How do you figure out the % to feed your animals. I don't know how to figure the 2-3% of weight. How much should I be feeding my cat at 6# and I think my dog at 5# should be about 3%?

Linda

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Messages in this topic (3)
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7b. Re: How do you figure
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Jul 7, 2007 10:56 am ((PDT))

Linda Edgington <lindagail849@...> wrote:
>
> How do you figure out the % to feed your animals. I don't know how
to figure the 2-3% of weight. How much should I be feeding my cat at
6# and I think my dog at 5# should be about 3%?
*****
Small critters generally need more food than large critters. So I'd
recommend using 4% as a beginning guideline and reduce/increase as
you see fit once you're in motion and headed in the right direction.

5# x .04 = .20# or 3.20oz or a healthy 3 ounces
6# x .04 = .24# or 3.84oz or a scant 4 ounces

However, my adult 10lb cat does well (reasonably active and lean) on
something less than 3% body weight, so there's really nothing better
than your animals to tell you how much to feed!

Ideal weight in pounds x percent you are considering feeding = amount
in pounds. Multiply this number by 16 to find ounces.

Ideal weight in ounces x percent you are considering feeding = amount
in ounces. You do not have to multiply this by 16.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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7c. Re: How do you figure
Posted by: "Linda Edgington" lindagail849@yahoo.com lindagail849
Date: Sat Jul 7, 2007 11:31 am ((PDT))

Thanks, I should have mentioned also, my cat is a kitten, 10 months old. When do I consider her a cat? 1 year? Linda
costrowski75 <Chriso75@AOL.COM> wrote: Linda Edgington <lindagail849@...> wrote:
>
> How do you figure out the % to feed your animals. I don't know how
to figure the 2-3% of weight. How much should I be feeding my cat at
6# and I think my dog at 5# should be about 3%?
*****
Small critters generally need more food than large critters. So I'd
recommend using 4% as a beginning guideline and reduce/increase as
you see fit once you're in motion and headed in the right direction.

5# x .04 = .20# or 3.20oz or a healthy 3 ounces
6# x .04 = .24# or 3.84oz or a scant 4 ounces

However, my adult 10lb cat does well (reasonably active and lean) on
something less than 3% body weight, so there's really nothing better
than your animals to tell you how much to feed!

Ideal weight in pounds x percent you are considering feeding = amount
in pounds. Multiply this number by 16 to find ounces.

Ideal weight in ounces x percent you are considering feeding = amount
in ounces. You do not have to multiply this by 16.

Chris O

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Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. Thanks
Posted by: "K9FindM@aol.com" K9FindM@aol.com bctwister03
Date: Sat Jul 7, 2007 9:52 am ((PDT))

Thanks to all who responded on my inquiries regarding feeding fish and organs.? I am a "partial" raw feeder with some kibble thrown in case of deployment.? I have an 8 year old GSD whom I pulled from work this past winter due to her advanced?arthritis and she is doing quite well since I started adding raw to her diet.? She does get Adequan injections and is too crippled to work anymore, but at home, you wouldn't know.?? We swim, massage, etc among other things.

Maria
SARDOM

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Messages in this topic (18)
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8b. Re: Thanks
Posted by: "Lyse Garant" lyse_garant@yahoo.com lyse_garant
Date: Sat Jul 7, 2007 10:36 am ((PDT))

I am sorry to sound so naive, but I keep seeing GSD as type of dog, what does that stand for???
Lyse, Owner of 16 week old Welsh Terrier Guinness, very soon to start a raw diet.

K9FindM@aol.com wrote:

Thanks to all who responded on my inquiries regarding feeding fish and organs.? I am a "partial" raw feeder with some kibble thrown in case of deployment.? I have an 8 year old GSD whom I pulled from work this past winter due to her advanced?arthritis and she is doing quite well since I started adding raw to her diet.? She does get Adequan injections and is too crippled to work anymore, but at home, you wouldn't know.?? We swim, massage, etc among other things.

Maria
SARDOM

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Lyse

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Messages in this topic (18)
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8c. Re: Thanks
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Jul 7, 2007 10:59 am ((PDT))

Lyse Garant <lyse_garant@...> wrote:
>
> I am sorry to sound so naive, but I keep seeing GSD as type of dog,
what does that stand for???
> Lyse, Owner of 16 week old Welsh Terrier Guinness, very soon to
start a raw diet.
>
*****
German Shepherd Dog
Chris O

Messages in this topic (18)
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9a. Re: What to try next
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Jul 7, 2007 10:37 am ((PDT))

Tabby,

Softer stools when feeding a meaty meal or organs is normal. It's no big
deal. Color and consistency will change daily depending on what is fed.
You could just add some beef (or pork or whatever) to a chicken meal rather
than feeding only meat...or feed one meal of chicken and one meal of meat if
you feed twice a day. But really, it's nothing to worry about!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Tabby Thompson" <tabby@laneybay.com>

> I tried it again yesterday to add some variety to their diet (beef roast)
> and we are back to slight loose stools. It was nothing to raise a flag at
> since I have seen it at its worst before. I used less muscle meat this
> time. There were no initial loose stools when I took the plunge starting
w/
> chicken as my source. Now I just sit here worrying that if I don't get my
> guys soon a variety that they will be lacking nutrients they need.

Messages in this topic (5)
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10. Re: Labwork
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Sat Jul 7, 2007 12:04 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/7/2007 8:39:05 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com writes:

Both urine came back with high PH and WBC's. I am told WBC's can be common
in intact males. And my females blood work showed a sligh elevation in BUN and
Urea Nitrogen. My vet knows (and accepts) they are RAW fed and said it could
be diet related. Any thoughts? I am wondering because our guys are getting a
higher protein diet than kibble fed dogs, does this indeed affect lab
values?

****
Here's something about that:

_http://www.antechdiagnostics.com/clients/antechnews/2006/nov06_01.htm_

(http://www.antechdiagnostics.com/clients/antechnews/2006/nov06_01.htm)

Lynda

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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11a. Re: ITS WORKED!!!
Posted by: "Katie Baker" declansmama@gmail.com katherinebaker2
Date: Sat Jul 7, 2007 12:04 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "admiralsagilitydogs"
<admiralsagilitydogs@...> wrote:
> I think this is a diet we've been waiting for...
>

Congrats! Sounds like your dog loves it too.

-Katie and Fable

Messages in this topic (2)
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12. leg of lamb and chicken questions
Posted by: "Mona" mldbach@yahoo.com mldbach
Date: Sat Jul 7, 2007 12:42 pm ((PDT))

My husband just bought a leg of lamb and is planning on giving it to the dog. Is it OK? The
reason I'm asking is, a) we're new to this and b) I read that cow thigh and big bones aren't
good because it can cause the teeth to chip. Does lamb bone fall into this category?

Also, we tried starting with chicken as suggested. But our dog, a terrier mix, refused to eat it
after the first night. She didn't eat for almost a week, so my husband bought her some red
meat with bones that she really likes. What are the chances of her eventually eating chicken?
Has anyone else experienced this? If so, what did you do?

Thanks for any info.

Mona

Messages in this topic (1)
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13. Newbie - introduction - bought chicken - what to do with it?
Posted by: "Jane Walker" janeewalker@suddenlink.net janeewalker5
Date: Sat Jul 7, 2007 12:43 pm ((PDT))

Hello everyone - I wll sign my name Janee to distinguish myself from
the other Jane, if that is OK.

I have gradually found my way to this group through other groups - I
feel like I live on Yahoo sometimes - but the information is just not
available where I live in Louisiana. There is not one holistic vet
in the whole state - and not much else alternative either.

I have 11 cats and 2 dogs - what led me hear was one of my cats has
gingivitis/stomatitis in her mouth - I have been feeding canned and
dry Wysong - then switched to grain-free Wellness - and am FINALLY
getting it that I need to feed raw.

I am a vegetarian and always avoid the meat section of a grocery
store. I have a problem with the whole factory farming industry -
but that's not for this forum. Yesterday, I made myself buy some
chicken - they had organic chicken - but only boneless, skinless
breasts - so I have a package of this chicken - what am I supposed to
do with it?

I apologize that I am pressed for time right now and hope to catch up
later with reading previous posts. Could someone please tell me what
to do - do I cut it up in small pieces - do I grind it in a blender?
Can you cook it even just a few minutes??? or bake it a few
minutes.....honestly, I know that I have to get over it - but this is
hard!

Any words of wisdom? I'm sure there are vegetarians out there.
Thanks to everyone!

Janee

Messages in this topic (1)
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14. Eggs and other extras
Posted by: "Sheryl Edelen" sophiiblu@yahoo.com sophiiblu
Date: Sat Jul 7, 2007 1:50 pm ((PDT))

Hi everyone,

In the nine months I've rawfed my herd and been a member of this
listserve, I've come to understand that there really are no new
questions, only those I missed the response to when they were last
asked. I'm sure my present question will be no less so.

- I give an egg each day? Is that okay? I thought I read about some
adverse effects in an earlier post.

When I supplement my dog's diet, is it better to give them with the
evening meal or the morning meal? Just wondered. Both my dogs sleep
most of the day while I'm at work, so would it be wasted during less
active hours?

Thanks in advance for your feedback. :)

Sheryl Edelen

Messages in this topic (1)
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Feed Pets Raw Food

Saturday, July 7, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11773

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