[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11767

There are 17 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Hello everyone...update on a newbie
From: babyboyfila1

2a. Re: Which bones are best for teeth clean ups?
From: Mary

3a. Re: Here fishy fishy
From: Bearhair
3b. Re: Here fishy fishy
From: costrowski75

4a. Re: Veggies... Eggs... Omega3 's... Vitamin E
From: costrowski75

5a. Re: Newbie to the group with a few questions...
From: Sandee Lee

6a. Re: Epilepsy & raw feeding
From: ginny wilken
6b. Re: Epilepsy & raw feeding
From: Barb

7a. Re:
From: ginny wilken

8a. Re: Thanks, Chris O.
From: Patrice Quinn
8b. Re: Thanks, Chris O.
From: Laurie

9a. Re: Anyone in Oregon
From: chamelett2003

10a. Re: Chicken frames
From: addicted 2 my pc

11. introduction & Qs - variety, & hardness of bone
From: Lisa S.

12. What should i feed???
From: admiralsagilitydogs

13. Sick on Fish
From: Gavin Gunn

14a. Re: New puppy won't eat
From: Rebecca Little

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1. Hello everyone...update on a newbie
Posted by: "babyboyfila1" babyboyfila1@yahoo.com babyboyfila1
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 9:18 pm ((PDT))

Its been quiet a while since I have been here asking questions.
Which have helped me so much.

I have almost completely switched everyone to a raw/cooked diet. I
cooke mac and velvetta with organic milk, toss in raw burger and they
just love it. I feed raw beef or raw hamburger. I feed chicken and
turkey necks raw. I am also feeding frozen chicken breasts to my one
dog and he is just crazy for them. I feed the mac and cheese because
my one pup is just like a kid and its his favorite. They will not
touch commerical food. I have offered it and they just look at me
like what? My older dog refuses to eat raw, so I cook her hamburger
for her and mix it in the mac and cheese. I will feed her a pizza
before I feed her any commerical. They aren't real crazy about fish,
but I am trying different kinds. I will be going to the fish market
this weekend and will be getting some frest small fish to try. Even
the cats are loving the meat. I have been feeding organ meat twice a
week, but I do cook them. I tried couscous and chopped up the
chicken livers and they loved it. I also blend up a batch of
broccolli and califlower and mixed it into the gruel I feed. Can
anyone give me any suggestions to what I can do to further increase
this diet? I know alot of you don't think veggies are nessacary also
grain of any kind. But will it hurt to add pasta, veggies or the
unenriched durham semolina couscous?
Thank you for your time
Dawn
P.s. I just picked up two puppies 8 and 12 weeks old. They couldn't
get enough kibble. I started feeding raw and leave a bowl of kibble
down. Guess what they wait for? LOL...isn't it grand!

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Which bones are best for teeth clean ups?
Posted by: "Mary" halle4@comcast.net hallebest
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 9:19 pm ((PDT))

Lynne,

I'm in south central PA, not so near you unfortunately...

Mary

----- Original Message -----
From: linoleum5017
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 10:52 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: Which bones are best for teeth clean ups?

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <halle4@...> wrote:
> I feed the chicken feet partially frozen
>
> Mary in PA

Mary, I am also in PA, and am looking to find a good butcher. Where
might you be? Southwestern PA is my neck o'.

Lynne

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: Here fishy fishy
Posted by: "Bearhair" bearhair@spamcop.net bearhair61
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 9:19 pm ((PDT))

Michele wrote:

>I understand about non farmed fish, but is it OK to feed salt and/or
>fresh water fish? I read the threads and did I miss that questions?
>If I did, I apologize for being blind.

Fish is good. You can feed the entire fish, head, guts, fins, bones, all of
it.

As far as specific fish choices, I refer people to www.oceansalive.org for
information on both safety and ecological impact.

When reviewing the "How many meals of this fish can I safely eat per month?"
chart, pay close attention to the footnotes at the bottom - their assumptions
about the weight of the diner and the size of the "meal" change depending on
whether you're looking at the column for women, men, older or younger
children. Try to match your dog's size to one of the four types of diners and
then note the meal size they use in their recommendation.

Also note that the toxins contained in one species of fish that is consumed
must be added to the next species of fish consumed. For example, a man is
limited to one meal of Bluefin Tuna per month because of mercury
contamination. The same is true for Swordfish, and for Shark. But he can't
eat one of each, because he'll end up having consumed three meals of
mercury-contaminated fish in that one month.

All wild-caught Pacific Northwest fish should be frozen rock solid for three
full weeks. See this message in the archives for more information:
>http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/128908

Lora
Evanston, IL

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: Here fishy fishy
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 9:33 pm ((PDT))

"mob1043" <ynotbeastar@...> wrote:
>
> I understand about non farmed fish, but is it OK to feed salt and/or
> fresh water fish? I read the threads and did I miss that questions?
> If I did, I apologize for being blind.
*****
Most sources (okay, many sources) of fresh water fish are contaminated
with industrial or agricultural runoff; accumulated toxins cannot be
frozen into submission like parasites can.

If you feel good enough about a fresh water source to eat fish from it,
you can also feed the fish to your dog. If you aren't sure about the
quality of any lake, pond or stream, talk to your local fish and game
guys; it's their job to know water quality. And as with any wild
caught critter--land, air, water, if the parasite status is unknown,
freeze first.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: Veggies... Eggs... Omega3 's... Vitamin E
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 9:22 pm ((PDT))

"kaebruney" <kaebruney@...> wrote:
>
> Some raw feeders are totally purists relying only on the balance of
> meats, organs and bone to sustain their pet.
*****
Supplements may be useful when dealing with specific health issues,
no question about it. But supplements because one does not believe a
species appropriate diet is adequate nutrition is misplaced energy.
It is easier perhaps to stick a pill down a dog's throat but it is
more natural to tweak the menu. A good raw diet is not simply
sustaining a dog, it is about optimal nutrition with as little
straying as possible from what Ma Nature intends.

> I have yet to add supplements to our raw feeding but am considering
> the benefits of doing so.
*****
And what would those beneifts be?

> For those who add supplements, which do you add and why?
*****
I feed salmon oil or fish body oil. I supplement it because I
sometimes must rely too heavily on feedlot livestock and factory
chicken both of which provide excessive Omega 6 at the expense of
Omega 3.

> Anyone add brewer's yeast or garlic for insects?
*****
Brewer's yeast would be inappropriate but people have reported a
reduction in fleas from using garlic. At the very least, garlic fed
in proper doses is not likely to harm a dog, brewer's yeast might.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: Newbie to the group with a few questions...
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 9:32 pm ((PDT))

No...cilantro and cumin seed!!! :) Chris is going to holler at us...this
*must* be some new fangled raw dog food, right??? :))

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Linda Edgington" <lindagail849@yahoo.com>

> With some onion and bbq sauce!! :}
>
> Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com> wrote: Actually, beer and pork are
really good together. Slow cooked in a
> crockpot....YUM!!!!

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: Epilepsy & raw feeding
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 10:47 pm ((PDT))

On Jul 5, 2007, at 3:58 PM, Mary wrote:

> I have been feeding raw for 6 yrs now just winging it on my own trying
> my best.After reading the post for the last few days I have learned
> alot.I now have a new rescue boy has epilepsy he's 4 yrs old and has
> been on meds since a pup 3mo's.(Phenobarbital 97.2 mg. @ 5 per day)
> When
> we got him we put him on raw right away,his weight was 110lbs and now
> is 95lbs. Never had a dog with this so we have been doing some
> research
> on it.Now we a seeing that the raw diet is very very bad for the
> Epilepsy dog.Does anyone have any suggestions on this.We are going
> crazy with this,please help if you have the time..

This is absolutely not true! Most epilepsy is a result of rabies
vaccinosis, either in the subject or the previous generations, and
feeding raw can only help the animal deal with his problem. I don't
know who is selling you this line of thought, but they know nothing
about appropriate nutrition, and most likely not much about the true
causes of nerve damage in dogs as well.

You may wish to do some reading on the TruthAboutVaccines list, and
also on ClassicalHomeopathyPets, for ideas on the nature of his
disease and how to address it and get him off the drugs.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: Epilepsy & raw feeding
Posted by: "Barb" behaven@telus.net behavensnikko
Date: Fri Jul 6, 2007 2:21 am ((PDT))

We have had two epileptic dogs! Both were vacc'd & kibble fed before we
got them! From experience, the naturally raised/raw/vaccine
free /egg/taurine/amino acid dog is a thriving 13+ year old today, &
full of beans, I might add. The Phenobarb ,vac'd kibble fed died at 4
years old! Will never vacc or kibble feed a dog ever again, no matter
how "great" it might be! It is not!!
Cheers/Barb
Behaven Shelties
Raw fed/Vaccine Free X 23+ Years-for a reason!--- In
rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <dobesrcool@...> wrote:
>
> I have been feeding raw for 6 yrs now just winging it on my own
trying
> my best.After reading the post for the last few days I have learned
> alot.I now have a new rescue boy has epilepsy he's 4 yrs old and has
> been on meds since a pup 3mo's.(Phenobarbital 97.2 mg. @ 5 per day)
When
> we got him we put him on raw right away,his weight was 110lbs and now
> is 95lbs. Never had a dog with this so we have been doing some
research
> on it.Now we a seeing that the raw diet is very very bad for the
> Epilepsy dog.Does anyone have any suggestions on this.We are going
> crazy with this,please help if you have the time..
>
> Mary
> dobesrcool@...
>

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re:
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 11:18 pm ((PDT))

On Jul 5, 2007, at 6:28 PM, Ann Flynn wrote:
> I have a few questions:
>
>
>
> Is it true that cruciate ligament rupture is related to junk pet
> food diet?
> Has anyone feeding raw had this problem with their dog/dogs?

My guy tore both cruciates when he was four - about the same time
many other symptoms of his vaccine damage became obvious. He had been
on a poor diet all that time as well, and never done well digestively
and as far as consistent appetite. I think there is a strong link
between cruciate tears and both vaccines and diet, and tied to this
is hypothyroidism, exacerbated by vaccines, and linked to ligament
brittleness. I wonder if you have had thyroid tested in your old
girl? She sounds a bit as though she may be hypothyroid as well, and
it's both terribly common, and very treatable with no ill effects,
with supplementation of the hormone.
>
>
>
> Would anyone with experience changing to raw with an old dog and
> having
> success with stiffness and arthritis relief in their pet, please
> share with
> me how long it took for the dog to get relief?

My pup also had poor hips from puppyhood. With raw food from age four
and homeopathic treatment for his vaccine-related issues, he is
getting around OK on basically nonexistent hip joints. No one
expected him to live this long, let alone be able to walk. He's 12.
He gets a couple of supplements as well as a varied raw diet rich in
bone and connective tissue, because they help keep him pain free:
Adequan, an injectable, and Boswellia, an herb for inflammation. But
diet alone will make a huge difference also.

Please go ahead and change her over; the list is full of testimonials
to old dogs regaining vigor and interest in life after switching to
raw. They are never too ill to benefit, and enjoy it so very much
more that that alone would be worth it:)

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: Thanks, Chris O.
Posted by: "Patrice Quinn" patrice@patricequinn.com patrice_quinn
Date: Fri Jul 6, 2007 2:20 am ((PDT))

Just want to say THANK YOU, Chris and the rest of you veterans of raw
feeding, you are an invaluable resource for all of us who are just learning
the ropes. It must get tedious at times to deal with the same questions
over and over yet you and others who have been over this for years give your
time and patience so that countless others may have the chance to get it
right for the benefit of our beloved companions. And you're funny too!
Thanks again, Patrice Quinn

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: Thanks, Chris O.
Posted by: "Laurie" lhsearch1@verizon.net lauriescritters
Date: Fri Jul 6, 2007 5:10 am ((PDT))

I couldn't agree more!!

Laurie

>
> Just want to say THANK YOU, Chris and the rest of you veterans of raw
> feeding, you are an invaluable resource for all of us who are just
learning
> the ropes. It must get tedious at times to deal with the same
questions
> over and over yet you and others who have been over this for years
give your
> time and patience so that countless others may have the chance to get
it
> right for the benefit of our beloved companions. And you're funny
too!
> Thanks again, Patrice Quinn
>

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. Re: Anyone in Oregon
Posted by: "chamelett2003" chamelett2003@yahoo.com chamelett2003
Date: Fri Jul 6, 2007 2:20 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "monell2000" <monell2000@...> wrote:
>
> Does anone live in oregon that orders their meat? I am looking for
> somewhere to order rabbit, goat, anything like that. I know they need
> the different meats. All I can find is chicken. pork, beef, turkey,
> and some lamb.
> Monell
>
Monell,
Also check out PacNWRaw@yahoogroups.com If you live near I-5, Cottage
Grove, Eugene, Salem, Portland and any little towns inbetween. We did
just pick up our Rabbit order this week but we do order it on a regular
basis and get a group discount. We also got our Tripe not long ago. I
watch both sites to order from. Good luck. If you have any more
questions feel free to ask.
Jill

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. Re: Chicken frames
Posted by: "addicted 2 my pc" mmoy1191@tpg.com.au jmoylan1952
Date: Fri Jul 6, 2007 2:20 am ((PDT))

Same here we have the most chunkiest chicken backs down under , so damn heavy too, amazing, , I really wanted to send pics in top show you American how different our raw meat is, but how? I couldnt seem to be able to make a album up in the group? can i attach in email ?
Jen
----- Original Message -----
From: costrowski75
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:39 AM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: Chicken frames

Shannon Parker <mrbatisse@...> wrote:
By chicken frames we are talking the breast bone, ribs and cartilage,
correct?? I just want to make sure I'm on the same page here...
*****
Yup, I think so.

I get Chicken frames from an organic source and they are not just
bone. They are covered in at least 50% meat, have lots of cartilage
and about 20% bone.
*****
I frankly can't see how that is physically possible but I know that
Bill C. feeds meaty backs that are also physically impossible so maybe
I am just living in the wrong part of the world.

If it works for you and more importantly your dog, by all means go for
it!
Chris O

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11. introduction & Qs - variety, & hardness of bone
Posted by: "Lisa S." acbrio@shaw.ca trzazz
Date: Fri Jul 6, 2007 2:20 am ((PDT))

Hi list, I guess I should introduce myself :).
I have a 40 pound, 2 year old Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever. He
has been raw fed all of his life, including by the breeder. Since a
raw buying group was recently formed in my city, I have been trying
some new things. Next order, I'm including lamb kidney, pork spleen,
veal sweetbreads (pancreas and thymus gland) and ground wild herring.
He already eats pork tongue, pork neck bones, salmon chunks, whole
smelts and sardines, tripe (loves it), chicken backs & necks, turkey
necks, beef organ mix, beef heart, elk tongue & liver, raw eggs with
shell, oils (cold water fish oil, salmon oil, Arctic Vigor, cod liver
oil). I only feed him a little of the cod liver oil once every week
or two or so. I alternate the other oils, giving him oil several
times a week.

I'm going to try giving him a mostly-whole, skinned rabbit tomorrow
and a whole quail with feathers on it. A furry rabbit will be next
sometime, I hope, if he likes the skinned rabbit.

I know I haven't said what ratios I feed of what or how often, but
does that look like a decent amount of variety ? Is something
important missing ? Would chicken feet be something good to add ? I
haven't given him those for a while.

Oddly, he does not like chicken organs or turkey liver. He will eat
the chicken organs, though, if I grind them up and mix them with
tripe.

I gave him a pork head about 4-5 times over about 7 or 8 days. He
loved it beyond belief, defending it fiercely from the flies !! Near
the end, I took a sledgehammer to it to try to help him get to the
brain, but several full-force whacks hardly made a dent in the head
anywhere. (I did knock off the neck vertebrae, so that did work and
the brain later vanished.) My sledgehammer whacks with little result
made me wonder if the pork skull is too hard a bone for him to be
chewing, while he was eating the flesh off the head and face. I try
not to feed him weight-bearing bones anymore, since I found out I
shouldn't...after I wondered why two of his tiny upper, middle front
teeth were missing and there is nothing that I can think of to
account for that, other than that I used to regularly feed him marrow
bones (oops).

(Nice :) ) input would be most welcome.

Thanks,

- Lisa S.
and Brio
http://community.webshots.com/user/acbrio

Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12. What should i feed???
Posted by: "admiralsagilitydogs" admiralsagilitydogs@yahoo.co.uk admiralsagilitydogs
Date: Fri Jul 6, 2007 2:21 am ((PDT))

Hello, please could some people, who feed the raw diet, please tell me
a schedual of what they feed there dogs over a week??? Then i can get
a better idea of what others feed.

Thanks
Sophie.

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13. Sick on Fish
Posted by: "Gavin Gunn" meganhayleyfinn@yahoo.co.uk meganhayleyfinn
Date: Fri Jul 6, 2007 2:21 am ((PDT))

Hi All

I have fed my 10 week golden retriever twice now on fish (herring),
once each week, but hours after he began puking it up. Is this normal
or should I be worrying. I want him to eat fish but is this puking up
a sign that he is allergic to it or something? Help! Also could
someone tell me what the best fish are to feed my dog.

Cheers in advance.

Gavin Gunn

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

14a. Re: New puppy won't eat
Posted by: "Rebecca Little" pbgs@delhitel.net canucme278
Date: Fri Jul 6, 2007 4:14 am ((PDT))

I really think you need to give him a little time to adjust. Its a new place new people and now you are giving him something new as well. I think it is quite normal for some pups to not want to eat even if the diet is the same since leaving mom and siblings is very stressful. Give him time keep offering and he will eat.
Rebecca Little
Peakes Brook German Shepherds
http://sites.centralpets.com/mammals/peakesbrookgsd/index.html

----- Original Message -----
From: rottinluvr
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 11:39 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] New puppy won't eat

Hi everyone,

I brought home my new puppy today. A 7 week old Rottweiler. I figured
since I managed to switch a cat over to raw, a new puppy would be a
breeze. Well, that hasn't been the case. He really has no interest in
the chicken. I've offered him a chicken quarter, and he barely looked
at it. I sliced into the meat, and he licked it. I finally cut it into
really tiny pieces, and he reluctantly ate a few, maybe a tablespoon
worth.

I know that puppies are supposed to eat frequently, so I'm a little
concerned. He is eating, drinking, peeing, and pooping just fine. He
does not seem depressed in any way, he just does not want to eat the
chicken.

Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated!

Leanne & Casino

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------