[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11757

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: I have a new Daschund puppy
From: Andrea

2a. Re: Your thoughts as I take the plunge?
From: Giselle

3a. Re: Identifying edible bones versus "tooth-wreckers"
From: chele519

4a. Re: I have a rescue dobie
From: mary
4b. Re: I have a rescue dobie
From: Sandee Lee
4c. Re: I have a rescue dobie
From: costrowski75

5a. New Here, New to Raw
From: Dorianne Almann
5b. Re: New Here, New to Raw
From: costrowski75

6a. Re: pork heads - keep how long ? Smash ? Elk heads ?
From: Tracy

7a. Freecycling Meat
From: Debra Bammel
7b. Re: Freecycling Meat
From: carnesbill
7c. Re: Freecycling Meat
From: Linda Edgington

8a. Slippery Elm
From: pitbullanholder

9a. grocery store slump
From: elizabeth vreeland
9b. Re: grocery store slump
From: carnesbill

10a. Re: So far so good, but have a couple of questions
From: Giselle
10b. Re: So far so good, but have a couple of questions
From: Linda Edgington

11a. Accidently left chicken breasts on counter overnite
From: Linda Edgington
11b. Re: Accidently left chicken breasts on counter overnite
From: Giselle
11c. Re: Accidently left chicken breasts on counter overnite
From: carnesbill
11d. Re: Accidently left chicken breasts on counter overnite
From: costrowski75

12a. Re: Questioning and need reassurance
From: woofwoofgrrl
12b. Re: Questioning and need reassurance
From: Sandee Lee
12c. Re: Questioning and need reassurance
From: Casey Post

13. Starting raw w/Dachshunds
From: Michael Moore

Messages
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1a. Re: I have a new Daschund puppy
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 11:31 am ((PDT))

Welcome, Catherine, you'll find that the feeding plan for an adult is
the same as for a puppy - Feed a variety of raw meaty bones, meat, and
some organ. You want to get as close to what a wolf would eat in the
wild, so whole prey is the best, but you can part it together as well.
Basically, you want to feed lots of meat, some edible bone (with meat
on it), and some organ. That's it. No need for veggies as a food
source, your dog is a carnivore and can't get nutrition from veggies
unless they have been prepped. Even then, the "nutrition" they derive
from the pulped veggies doesn't offer anything you wouldn't already
have in a good raw diet.

So, to start, it's most common to start with chicken since it's easy to
get and cheap. Buy a whole chicken, whack it up into quarters, and
feed to the dog. Every day you want to feed 2-3% of their ideal adult
weight, the puppy will probably need to eat several times a day. Let
them eat until they have had enough, pick up the rest and put it back
in the fridge for the next meal. Easy peasy. Keep them on chicken for
a couple of weeks so their digestive systems get used to raw food, and
keep reading the list. By the time the pups are ready to go on to
another meat source you'll have learned a whole lot. Good luck!

Andrea

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: Your thoughts as I take the plunge?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 1:20 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Jeffrey!
Imo, adult dogs given a lot of protein variety very early in their
introduction to raw can have much more gas than dogs who are
introduced to protein variety more slowly. Offering only one protein
at a time for about a week before moving on to a new one may not
eliminate the gas, but may take the ewww! factor down a couple
notches. Usually, once the dog's digestive system adjusts, the gas
frequency and ewww! factor diminishes.
And, the volume in the stool you may be seeing probably isn't from his
prior diet, but a reflection on your dog's ability at this time to
digest raw. It does take a little time until the dog's system adjusts,
even though raw is ideal and much more digestible. There is more stool
volume, ime, with bone than meatymeat. The claylike consistency you
report may be from the bone in his diet. Dry, even crumbly stools can
happen when the percentage of bone in the diet is high. Remember, its
not a bone diet, its a whole prey model diet - about 80% meat (muscle,
fat, skin, connective tissue, anything thats not bone or organ) about
10% bone, about 10% organ.
Personally, I'd stick with quartered whole chickens, with the heart,
gizzards and a teeny bit of liver (thumbnail sized) tossed in with
each meal for a week. I'd note the differences in stool and gas
emissions, (if any) then move on to, oh say, turkey, pork, beef, etc.
and so forth, each for about a week. Not every meal has to have, or
should have, a bone in it.
btw, most people avoid chicken or any meats that have salt solution
injected or are enhanced with flavorings or seasonings. These tend to
give loose stools or diarrhea or itchy skin on a lot of dogs.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> > Sorry, it looks like your post got lost in the group.......
> > How has your dog doing now?
>
> Thank you for the replies tottime47 and Andrea!
>
> She seems to be taking to the diet like a champ! In the past when she
> had decided to take a stroll through the woods, she often came back
> with bits of deer (Legs and feet mostly) but has never been any worse
> for the ware, so I figured her stomach is more than ready for a
> variety of meats. Over the past week I have been feeding Chicken
> Quarters, Spare Ribs, Pork Hawks and lamb shoulder (Basically anything
> that was priced to sell at the local grocery store).
>
> Her stools seem well formed. They are khaki in color and have a clay
> type texture. But there is considerably more stool volume than I
> believe I should be seeing.
>
> But I think it is still to early to draw any conclusions (1 week on
> RAW today)so I will stick with it and take your suggestions to heart!
>
> Oh yea, one more thing...No amount of reading on these posts can
> prepare you for the deadly, unearthly, noxious farts emanating from my
> poor sweet Bailey. If anyone truly wants to find weapons of mass
> destruction, They should try looking at the little hair ball curled up
> on my couch!
>
> Jeffrey
> Cresco, PA
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. Re: Identifying edible bones versus "tooth-wreckers"
Posted by: "chele519" chele519@yahoo.com chele519
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 1:43 pm ((PDT))

Glad it worked out for you. I used to give them sliced so when I
plunked down a whole 8 lb shoulder on the floor one day, Shrek looked
at me like I had 2 heads. Or maybe she was just thinking FINALLY!
Michele

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "wenigj" <wenigj@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Michelle,
> That is exactly what I found so I did take it away after she had
> gotten the meat off. You were right about it taking longer than
> chicken =) It was fun watching her figure out what to do with this new
> food.
> Jill W

Messages in this topic (9)
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4a. Re: I have a rescue dobie
Posted by: "mary" dobesrcool@cox.net dobesrcool
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 1:43 pm ((PDT))

I thought that we are not to feed like chicken legs & thighs,because they are weight bareing bones.Confused
please help
mary

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So, to start, it's most common to start with chicken since it's easy to
get and cheap. Buy a whole chicken, whack it up into quarters, and
feed to the dog. Every day you want to feed 2-3% of their ideal adult
weight, the puppy will probably need to eat several times a day.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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4b. Re: I have a rescue dobie
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 1:46 pm ((PDT))

Mary,

The warning for weight bearing bones only applies to critters who have some
weight to bear....like moose, elk, cow, etc. Chicken legs are fine!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "mary" <dobesrcool@cox.net>

> I thought that we are not to feed like chicken legs & thighs,because
they are weight bareing bones.Confused
> please help

Messages in this topic (3)
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4c. Re: I have a rescue dobie
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 1:57 pm ((PDT))

"mary" <dobesrcool@...> wrote:
>
> I thought that we are not to feed like chicken legs &
thighs,because they are weight bareing bones.
*****
The weight commercial chickens bear is not much and very brief. Fyers
grow quick and die young. Their legs and thighs are barely bones.

The legs and thighs you want to be skeptical of are those that tote
around large animals like cows, buffalo, elk, giraffes, elephants, yaks
and other Big Critters. When an animal gets to as much as 2000 pounds
and its legs have to support it (sometimes at a run) for a year or
longer, the bones are dense and strong and made to last far longer than
we let them.

Pigs, goat, lamb (maybe sheep), chicken, turkeys, quail, game hens--all
generally provide edible legs bones.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. New Here, New to Raw
Posted by: "Dorianne Almann" rottienh@hotmail.com rottieruckus
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 1:45 pm ((PDT))

Hi, All:

I'm brand new to raw and this discussion group.

For years I've thought about making the transition to raw. My
journey in canine nutrition began (tho I didn't know it at the time)
in 1984 when I got my first Rottie. I fed that poor dog Science
Diet. Throughout his life my dog was plagued by hot spots. I
probably put my vet's kid thru a semester's worth of college, taking
Otto back for repeated visits & spending money on ointments, salves,
unguents, shampoos, sprays, powders, et al in a vain, fruitless
search for relief. Now that I know what I know, I think Otto was
allergic to the corn &/or preservatives in SD.

For years I've fed better grade kibble, supplemented with human
food/plate scrapings (such as they are), with the thought of
eventually moving to raw.

"Eventually" arrived—June 26, 2007.

Because of our foster boy.

Sailor is estimated to be 7-8 yo. He's been in our care since early
Jan and hasn't thrived. The minimum care my vet's provided him (and
to other foster boys), elimination of internal & external parasites,
& feeding the same kibble our girls ate (Evo, CA Nat, and Canidae)
has been for nought. After almost 6 months living in our home, he
still looked as awful as when he arrived. Yes, Sailor is
hypothyroid and we finally think we have his med dosage correct, but
he simply hasn't thrived. At his last vet visit in mid June, Dr
Donna suggested feeding him raw.

Sailor got hi first raw meal June 26 for dinner. Since he's on raw
& I think it's the best for dogs, I'm also feeding raw to our 2
personal Rottie girls.

I just became a member of this list and will be reading thru the
archives. I have no idea how much to feed (I've seen suggestions of
2-4% of the dog's weight). I've seen Yes to pureed veggies on some
Web sites, No to them. Yes, to boiled potatoes, No to them. Yes,
to supplements, No to them as they aren't needed. In other words,
I've read bewildering, conflicting advice.

I look forward to reading what all of you have to say and learning
from your experience!

--Dori

Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: New Here, New to Raw
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 4:07 pm ((PDT))

"Dorianne Almann" <rottienh@...> wrote:
>
>Now that I know what I know, I think Otto was
> allergic to the corn &/or preservatives in SD.
*****
Probably more like he was poisoned by those things, not that he was
allergic to them.

At his last vet visit in mid June, Dr
> Donna suggested feeding him raw.
*****
Bless mah soul! A vet recommending raw food. What a concept.

I have no idea how much to feed (I've seen suggestions of
> 2-4% of the dog's weight).
*****
It's not important to know. What's important is if what you're
feeding works for him. If it is working (and it certainly sounds
like it is) then frankly who cares what the amount weighs? Percent
of adult weight is often recommended as a starting place but the
final analysis should always belong to the dog.

I've seen Yes to pureed veggies on some
> Web sites, No to them. Yes, to boiled potatoes, No to them.
*****
This list recommends feeding a menu appropriate to the species, which
is wolf. Processed vegetables were not, are not, and are not likely
to be part of a wolf's natural diet. No veggies, no grains, no
boiled potatoes (how dreadful!) Our domestic wolves have zero
nutritional need for carbohydrates (save for those naturally
occurring in small amounts in meat, such as liver). So we don't
recommend them.

Some lists recommend feeding a dog as if it had the nutritional
needs/physiology of a human. This seems odd enough to me but
anthropomorphic thinking does drive a LOT of feeding choices. Go
figure.

And some lists use as their guideline the chemical analysis that
comes from laboratories and is endorsed by "feeding officials" who
represent dog food. These formulas are vain attempts to recreate
what wolves eat naturally. But the numbers on those spread sheets
make an enormous amount of people VERY happy. That the dogs may
suffer from the results is apparently of little concern.

It is because of this reliance on chemical analysis that atrocities
such as the recent petfood recall can happen.

Yes to supplements, No to them as they aren't needed.
*****
Our dogs can generally get from an appropriate raw diet what they
need for optimal health. The closer the menu is to whole prey, the
less important supplements are. The more one relies on supplements,
the more one has to rely on supplements.

Supplemental Omega 3 fatty acids from fish body oil are often
recommened to combat the excess of Omega 6 in the typical "feedlot
beef, factory chicken" diet. But that's really about it for a
healthy or reasonably healthy dog.

Obviously, ailing dogs with specific needs should get supplements
specific to the ailment. We don't recommend "just in case" or "on
account" supplementing.

If you haven't looked into these two websites, check 'em out!
http://rawfed.com
http://rawfeddogs.net

Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Re: pork heads - keep how long ? Smash ? Elk heads ?
Posted by: "Tracy" tracy.ramey@sbcglobal.net veganmomma1
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 1:45 pm ((PDT))

"I'm thinking that the best approach to the brain would either be with a
sledgehammer blow to the back of the skull, or a prybar to disarticulate
the lower jaw, or both."

Don't want to waste time or take up space here, but I have to say...some
of these posts are soooo hard to read for a vegan! I'm gonna need
therapy after this one. LOL [:O]

Tracy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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7a. Freecycling Meat
Posted by: "Debra Bammel" DBammel@idahopower.com debbammel
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 1:45 pm ((PDT))

I have gotten some "freecycled meat" from some coworkers.
I got several packages of "deer breakfast sausage".
I am hesitatant to feed this as I thought it might contain
added spices. Thoughts....Debra

Messages in this topic (3)
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7b. Re: Freecycling Meat
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 2:30 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Debra Bammel" <DBammel@...> wrote:
>
> I am hesitatant to feed this as I thought it might contain
> added spices. Thoughts....Debra

I get a good deal of free deer meat but, like you, I'm hesitant to
feed the sausage. I have smelled it and you can smell the added stuff
in it. So far I haven't fed it althought I'm not sure it would be
harmful. If it doesn't kill humans, it shouldn't kill dogs.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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7c. Re: Freecycling Meat
Posted by: "Linda Edgington" lindagail849@yahoo.com lindagail849
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 3:21 pm ((PDT))

Hi, When I make venison sausage I have sage, and mace/nutmeg and some people put red pepper in there's, but generally there are now perservative in it. Just spices. Linda

carnesbill <carnesw@bellsouth.net> wrote: --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Debra Bammel" <DBammel@...> wrote:
>
> I am hesitatant to feed this as I thought it might contain
> added spices. Thoughts....Debra

I get a good deal of free deer meat but, like you, I'm hesitant to
feed the sausage. I have smelled it and you can smell the added stuff
in it. So far I haven't fed it althought I'm not sure it would be
harmful. If it doesn't kill humans, it shouldn't kill dogs.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. Slippery Elm
Posted by: "pitbullanholder" pitbullanholder@yahoo.com pitbullanholder
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 1:45 pm ((PDT))

I am currently using Slippery Elm after all three dogs showed signs of
digestive upset. The kind I picked up goes in their water bowl. What
I would like to know is...is it bad to keep it in their water even if
they seemed to be doing better?

Angela

Messages in this topic (14)
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9a. grocery store slump
Posted by: "elizabeth vreeland" elivree@yahoo.com elivree
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 1:47 pm ((PDT))

Hi. I've been successfully raw-feeding for 1 yr now! Yaaaaay! However, I have been lazily(and expensively, I know) picking up all of Syg's food at the grocery store. I feed a variety of chicken,beef, pork, turkey, lamb parts such as ribs, quarters, whole
(chicken and turkey--which is not All parts,as u know),necks, thighs, feet (chicken), sometimes tongue(cow), just meat, etc... all things you can get at the grocery store. Once a week or so she gets an organ meal which I've mixed whichever animal's kidneys, spleen,or gizzards with liver. I follow the guidelines provided here for ratios. I
also try to get the hormone-free, free-range when possible. I have just contacted my co-op group(whom I've never ordered from yet) for an order of green tripe and trachea. Sygne is doing GREAT since the big switch last year!!! (95%better w/ allergies-licking of feet,itchy n
flaky skin, ear infections, throwing up, warm-nose,etc...) She is sooo much more comfortable, very active, and everyone comments on her shiny coat. The slight yellow tarter build-up on her molars is also COMPLETELY GONE! You guys helped me sooo much in the beginning!! However; after working out the initial kinks, I've been on auto pilot. I understand that the idea is to feed a Varied Whole Prey Model diet and I feel like I am definately falling short. I do not supplement and I think they receive a lot of important things
from the other parts which are absent in her diet. She HAS had a couple other pieces and whole prey in there..like rabbit(but I don'teven think it had a head). My question is...How much am I screwing up and short-changing her? Is this acceptable, mediocre, or just wrong? Are there any long-term or short-term risks to her health sofar because of my leisure?
Thank you.
Liz

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Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: grocery store slump
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 2:29 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, elizabeth vreeland <elivree@...>
wrote:
>
> My question is...How much am I screwing up and short-changing
> her?

NOT one little bit. Find something important to worry about. You
are doing good here.

> Is this acceptable, mediocre, or just wrong?

Much better than "acceptable".

> Are there any long-term or short-term risks to her health
> sofar because of my leisure?

Nope, you are doing great. Stop worrying.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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10a. Re: So far so good, but have a couple of questions
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 2:04 pm ((PDT))

Yes, Linda, 'spoiling' our critters with raw is the best way! And its
the most fun to be had by all, too! You can chop up teeny bits of raw
heart & gizzard to keep in the fridge for those in between meal
special treats, too.
Since Giz is a tiny dog, cornish hens would be appropriate. I had
thoughts of saying 'yes' without asking his size in my last post, and
visualized me feeding my 130 lb Newfy girl dozens of those little
birds at a time, and ending up in the poor house! lol
He should however, be able to manage regular chicken bones, too. You
can introduce bone at any time, the softer ones to crunch and digest
ones are easier at first, of course. As I remember, cornish hens don't
come with the 'giblet' packet, so when you start feeding whole cut up
chickens, toss in the heart, gizzards and a little bit of the liver (
a pinky fingernail sized piece) with their meals. As you started with
boneless meats, you do know that feeding more meat than bone including
boneless, or meatymeat meals is a good thing.
Feeding outside is very OK, unless and until it rains. Or snows. Or is
so cold and windy outside you wished you never started that plan. I'd
have a 'rain date' option in place for those days.
Feeding boneless breast, or any meatymeat for some days in a row can
result in no poops. The raw is so very digestible that there is
virtually 'no' residue. Feeding bone, or organ with the meat (: 0 be
careful with that) will push whats inside, out. Meatymeat poops, when
they happen, are usually very soft, even runny. NPs.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> HI,
> Giz is a tiny toy poodle and he weighs 5.2 pounds and is 7 years
old. Sassafrass is 10 months old cat at 6#'s. I have not started
feeding any cornish hen yet. They are just on chicken breast, so far.
I don't know for sure when I should be introducing bone. I had the
hens so that is what I was going to start with. I thought I would
feed sass as usual on the washer and feed Giz his first "bone" meal
out in the yard while I am working in flower garden. And again, if
Giz doesn't poop tomorrow do I need to be worried. On another note,
they are both more contented than I have ever seen them. I am soo
glad I am doing this. After all the years that I have been spoiling
the "wrong way".
>
> Thanks,
>
> Linda

Messages in this topic (5)
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10b. Re: So far so good, but have a couple of questions
Posted by: "Linda Edgington" lindagail849@yahoo.com lindagail849
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 2:30 pm ((PDT))

Thanks for the help. We just had a "poop" and it was pretty solid, and not as much and much lighter in color, so guess I should start with some bone in chicken. When it rains or get to cold I will feed him in his kennel. Linda
Giselle <megan.giselle@gmail.com> wrote: Yes, Linda, 'spoiling' our critters with raw is the best way! And its
the most fun to be had by all, too! You can chop up teeny bits of raw
heart & gizzard to keep in the fridge for those in between meal
special treats, too.
Since Giz is a tiny dog, cornish hens would be appropriate. I had
thoughts of saying 'yes' without asking his size in my last post, and
visualized me feeding my 130 lb Newfy girl dozens of those little
birds at a time, and ending up in the poor house! lol
He should however, be able to manage regular chicken bones, too. You
can introduce bone at any time, the softer ones to crunch and digest
ones are easier at first, of course. As I remember, cornish hens don't
come with the 'giblet' packet, so when you start feeding whole cut up
chickens, toss in the heart, gizzards and a little bit of the liver (
a pinky fingernail sized piece) with their meals. As you started with
boneless meats, you do know that feeding more meat than bone including
boneless, or meatymeat meals is a good thing.
Feeding outside is very OK, unless and until it rains. Or snows. Or is
so cold and windy outside you wished you never started that plan. I'd
have a 'rain date' option in place for those days.
Feeding boneless breast, or any meatymeat for some days in a row can
result in no poops. The raw is so very digestible that there is
virtually 'no' residue. Feeding bone, or organ with the meat (: 0 be
careful with that) will push whats inside, out. Meatymeat poops, when
they happen, are usually very soft, even runny. NPs.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> HI,
> Giz is a tiny toy poodle and he weighs 5.2 pounds and is 7 years
old. Sassafrass is 10 months old cat at 6#'s. I have not started
feeding any cornish hen yet. They are just on chicken breast, so far.
I don't know for sure when I should be introducing bone. I had the
hens so that is what I was going to start with. I thought I would
feed sass as usual on the washer and feed Giz his first "bone" meal
out in the yard while I am working in flower garden. And again, if
Giz doesn't poop tomorrow do I need to be worried. On another note,
they are both more contented than I have ever seen them. I am soo
glad I am doing this. After all the years that I have been spoiling
the "wrong way".
>
> Thanks,
>
> Linda

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Messages in this topic (5)
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11a. Accidently left chicken breasts on counter overnite
Posted by: "Linda Edgington" lindagail849@yahoo.com lindagail849
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 2:08 pm ((PDT))

Can I still use them or do I have to throw them away?

Linda

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Messages in this topic (4)
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11b. Re: Accidently left chicken breasts on counter overnite
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 2:14 pm ((PDT))

To your dog, or cat? sure thing.
Hubbies don't like 'em that way, tho'
*grin*
TC, Linda!
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Can I still use them or do I have to throw them away?
>
> Linda

Messages in this topic (4)
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11c. Re: Accidently left chicken breasts on counter overnite
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 2:29 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Linda Edgington <lindagail849@...>
wrote:
>
> Can I still use them or do I have to throw them away?
>

Feed'em.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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11d. Re: Accidently left chicken breasts on counter overnite
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 4:12 pm ((PDT))

Linda Edgington <lindagail849@...> wrote:
>
> Can I still use them or do I have to throw them away?
*****
Oh heavens, don't toss them! Feed them to your dogs.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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12a. Re: Questioning and need reassurance
Posted by: "woofwoofgrrl" cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com woofwoofgrrl
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 3:22 pm ((PDT))

Thanks Casey and Carol for this discussion! It helps to know that
giving her raw food did not precipitate the problems and that Yes, I do
need to modify the diet now that we have a medical issues.

Oh, and someome asked if she had been given any vaccines and yes - she
had been given a Lepto vaccine prior to theonset of all of this. Do you
think that can cause kidney problems? After you mentioned it I googled
Lepto vaccinosis kidney and I didn't find anything that specfically
mentioned the kidneys being affected by the vaccine....

Thanks!
Christine

Casey Post wrote:
>> Well.....yes and no. Commercial, for sure, would not be a good thing.
>> But
>> there ARE problems with feeding raw without really careful balancing.
>> It's
>> the phosphorous that needs to be limited and it's hard to get enough high
>> digestible protein and calories into a kidney dog and keep that
>> phosphorous
>> limited on a meat, and espeically meat and bones, diet. For more info go
>> to
>> k9kidneydiet list.
>
> Carol,
>
> Yes, many dogs in renal failure need to have their phos reduced, that's
> true. But the question was whether or not switching to raw will precipitate
> renal failure and I maintain that no, it will not.
>
>
>> I'd hate to see someone go off with a dog in kidney failure thinking that
>> they could just feed as usual when diet could make such a difference.
>> This
>> list is for mostly healthy dogs, yes?
>
> I imagine that many of us are dealing with less than healthy animals in one
> form or another...but your point is well-taken that some dietary
> modifications may need to be made for medical conditions.
>
>
>> Hope this is ok for the list. Just taking the lead from reading the
>> above.
>
>
> Of course. You have a concern about someone misinterpreting what I wrote
> and you clarified. Clarifications always welcome.
>
> Casey
>
>
>
>
>
> All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Messages in this topic (11)
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12b. Re: Questioning and need reassurance
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 3:33 pm ((PDT))

Don't know for sure about kidney issues, but this is one of the vaccs that
is not recommended because of the high incidence of adverse reactions. You
might find some info here...Christie has a lengthy article about the Lepto
vacc.

http://www.caberfeidh.com/Revax.htm

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "woofwoofgrrl" <cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com>
>
> Oh, and someome asked if she had been given any vaccines and yes - she
> had been given a Lepto vaccine prior to theonset of all of this. Do you
> think that can cause kidney problems? After you mentioned it I googled
> Lepto vaccinosis kidney and I didn't find anything that specfically
> mentioned the kidneys being affected by the vaccine....

Messages in this topic (11)
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12c. Re: Questioning and need reassurance
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 4:12 pm ((PDT))

> Oh, and someome asked if she had been given any vaccines and yes - she
> had been given a Lepto vaccine prior to theonset of all of this. Do you
> think that can cause kidney problems? After you mentioned it I googled
> Lepto vaccinosis kidney and I didn't find anything that specfically
> mentioned the kidneys being affected by the vaccine....
**************

Lepto itself can cause acute renal failure (with the symptoms you describe),
so if she was at risk for lepto, I do hope that the vet addressed that early
on. Vaccination is no guarantee of protection...especially true with Lepto,
I'm afraid.

You may want to do some more research on the Lepto vaccine and adverse
reactions, just so you're aware of the risks. But we've now wandered off
topic for this board...

Casey

Messages in this topic (11)
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13. Starting raw w/Dachshunds
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 5:04 pm ((PDT))

>>I need advice and diet plan ideas for both a puppy and our adult dog. Also anyone who might have suggestions on daxi training- as they're not the easiest!<<

Catherine -- no Doxies here, but Corgis -- also long and low. A diet plan is actually quite easy (although most of us tend to complicate it much more than necessary!). For both the new puppy and your adult dog, buy a whole chicken, cut it into meal size portions and serve to the appropriate dog. Yes, it really is that easy.
Depending on the puppy's age, a meal might be quite small. For 10 wk. old Corgi pups, a chicken meal would be 1/2 of a split breast with quite a bit of meat (or a thigh, again w/ lots of meat). Their next meal would be smaller.
For my adult Corgis, a chicken meal might be either a leg or a thigh.
Once the dogs have adjusted to raw (1-2 weeks for many dogs), you can begin to add new/different proteins. You can certainly start with a meat other than chicken (pork, for example), but chicken is readily available and reasonably priced. Our Wal-Mart has whole chickens for .78/lb. every day.
Once you've added new protein, remember to add in organs, too (especially liver). Just a small amount (about the size of your thumbnail) to start with.
Feel free to ask specific questions -- folks on this list are terrific, and will gladly share their knowledge and experience!

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

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