[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11755

There are 14 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: pork heads - keep how long ? Smash ? Elk heads ?
From: Bearhair

2a. Re: PROBLEMS WITH GROUND EGGSHELLS, ANYONE?
From: Anndrea
2b. Re: PROBLEMS WITH GROUND EGGSHELLS, ANYONE?
From: Giselle

3a. Re: Michigan Suppliers
From: Bearhair

4a. Re: super gassy doggy
From: Bearhair

5a. Re: Pigs Feet left overs?
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
5b. Re: Pigs Feet left overs?
From: Bearhair

6a. Re: GSD first time raw feeding
From: Giselle

7a. Re: Eggs gave bad gas..
From: Giselle

8. Livestock yields
From: Bearhair

9.1. Re: itchy dog
From: Patrice Quinn

10a. Re: expiration dates
From: pelirojita

11a. Re: Questioning and need reassurance
From: Cdandp2@aol.com

12a. Re: Identifying edible bones versus "tooth-wreckers"
From: chele519

Messages
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1a. Re: pork heads - keep how long ? Smash ? Elk heads ?
Posted by: "Bearhair" bearhair@spamcop.net bearhair61
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 9:16 pm ((PDT))

Lisa S. wrote:

>I got my . . . dog his first pork head and he LOVES it, . . . He has still only gotten
>the back of the head eaten and most of the lower jaw, with the lower
>jaw bone mostly still there. I don't know if he will be able to get
>through the skull at all. The head is about 12 " from snout to the
>back of the ears. It weighs about 15 pounds.
>
>Would it be possible to smash the skull with my sledgehammer so he
>can get to the brain ? Should I try that ? If so, from the top,
>bottom, side ? (ew)

I'm very happy that you asked this, since I have 3 pig heads on order from
Taylor Pond Farms, averaging about 11 pounds each. All I've been able to
think about is to put them on stakes in the back yard (ala Lord of the Flies)
with little citronella candles on top and have a Lost re-runs party, since
the season finale is already shown.

>How long should I keep a pork head in the fridge before considering
>throwing it out ? It doesn't smell, or anything.

I think that you should definitely have it out of the fridge before either
your mother-in-law or the rabbi comes over for dinner.

>The funniest part with the pork heads is that he gets really mad at
>the flies. He curls his lip, growls and snaps at them.

Mine chases bees. Yikes.

>I simply walked over and "claimed" it,
>like Cesar Milan does, then I picked it up.
Could you quickly (before the moderator reads down this far) explain how you
"claim" it? I'm guessing you're not peeing on it, since you put it in the
fridge later.

>Since a
>raw buying group was recently formed in my city, I have been trying
>some new things. Next order, I'm including <delete a whole HOST of goodies!>
>He already eats <another host of goodies> . . . cod liver oil.

If no one jumps in, check the archives for cod live oil - if I remember
correctly, it may provide an overdose of . . . Vitamin D?

>Oddly, he does not like chicken organs or turkey liver. He will eat
>the chicken organs, though, if I grind them up and mix them with
>tripe.

Have you tried feeding them frozen?

Lora
who has 2 of 3 dogs that are afraid of thunder and . . . fireworks <sigh>
Evanston, IL

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: PROBLEMS WITH GROUND EGGSHELLS, ANYONE?
Posted by: "Anndrea" anndreae@yahoo.com anndreae
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 9:16 pm ((PDT))

You may want
> to try mashing bones really well and then mashing less and less over
time -
> not only will that get calcium and other minerals into them, but
also will
> help transition to whole, edible bones.

Can cats have beef and beef bones???
If so, how would I go about getting the bones to edible pieces if I
don't have a grinder? (Sorry if I am hijacking, but this thread
reminded me to ask)

Right now I have a little bit of venison, a LOT of different cuts of
beef (including ground hamburger), a tiny bit of fish, and a little
pork. Do I have anything they can have? I may not be able to start
full time raw feeding for a while yet, so I just want to do a slow start.

> Some cats are tough...believe me, I know!

Yet another reason for my slow start. I gave them tastes of raw
chicken and some ate it enthusiastically. I just need to find out if
other meats are safe for cats. Also...does freezer burn matter for
cats? I know it doesn't for dogs.

Thanks!

anndrea and her "crew" (Holly, Chico, and Shelby...6 cats, 1 rat and a
hubby - soon to be 2 cats 2 dogs, one rat and a hubby)

> Casey
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: PROBLEMS WITH GROUND EGGSHELLS, ANYONE?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 10:04 pm ((PDT))

Any meat your cat will eat is acceptable and appropriate.
I wouldn't worry about finding beef bones your cats can eat. About
80%, 10% bone, 10% organ, yeah? Not every meal needs a bone in it. i
wouldn't grind, I'd hack the meat into small enough bits for them to
find edible, no more than that. And go bigger and bigger over time.
Freezer burn meat for cats? Dunno, feed some, let us know if they'll
eat it. It can't hurt 'em.
When you do buy, try some beef or veal heart for meatymeat meals. Dogs
love them, and they are good for cats, if they'll eat it.
ime, hubbys don't like raw, but I may be wrong ; )
TC
Giselle

> Can cats have beef and beef bones???
> If so, how would I go about getting the bones to edible pieces if I
> don't have a grinder? (Sorry if I am hijacking, but this thread
> reminded me to ask)
>
> Right now I have a little bit of venison, a LOT of different cuts of
> beef (including ground hamburger), a tiny bit of fish, and a little
> pork. Do I have anything they can have? I may not be able to start
> full time raw feeding for a while yet, so I just want to do a slow
start.

> > Some cats are tough...believe me, I know!
>
> Yet another reason for my slow start. I gave them tastes of raw
> chicken and some ate it enthusiastically. I just need to find out if
> other meats are safe for cats. Also...does freezer burn matter for
> cats? I know it doesn't for dogs.
>
> Thanks!
>
> anndrea and her "crew" (Holly, Chico, and Shelby...6 cats, 1 rat and a
> hubby - soon to be 2 cats 2 dogs, one rat and a hubby)
>
> > Casey

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: Michigan Suppliers
Posted by: "Bearhair" bearhair@spamcop.net bearhair61
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 9:16 pm ((PDT))

Gen wrote:

>Hi! I'm currently feeding 6 greyhounds a raw diet. I'm looking for suppliers
>in the West Michigan or Kalamazoo area. I'm trying to expand our resource
>list.

>http://www.taylorpondfarms.com/

Also check out the Yahoo list CarnivoreSuppliers.

Lora
Evanston, IL

Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Re: super gassy doggy
Posted by: "Bearhair" bearhair@spamcop.net bearhair61
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 9:17 pm ((PDT))

Laura wrote:

>Snoopy has always been gassy but it seems to have gotten worse since raw feeding. We have been feeding all parts of chicken, beef and pork. They eat once a day. Yet Snoopy continues to have room clearing gas. It is nasty. Any suggestions?

Here's a search on "room clearing" in the archives:
>http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/msearch?query=room+clearing&charset=utf-8

Lora
Evanston, IL

Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. Re: Pigs Feet left overs?
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 9:17 pm ((PDT))

My yes, feed those to the monkeys again, and it will be fine, do so when ever you want:) Never throw meat away. You can let it sit out, refreeze, refrig, anytime, all over again, and again, and again, your dogs can handle the load of bacteria that we on the other hand can NOT handle. Don't eat them yourself, no matter how tasty you think they look:)
Jeni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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5b. Re: Pigs Feet left overs?
Posted by: "Bearhair" bearhair@spamcop.net bearhair61
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 10:09 pm ((PDT))

Pam wrote:

>My question is...since it was so late in the evening when they
>started on the pig's feet...I acccidently fell asleep and when I woke
>later in the morning, (like 9 hours later) there was still a good
>left over on each one (more than half) that the pups exhausted
>themselves over. So, I picked up the left overs, washed them, and put
>them back into the freezer...can I still give the pigs feet again
>after having been left out for so long and refrozen..????
>Is it safe or is there too much of a bacteria risk ?

I'd go ahead and feed the remainder in a couple of days.

Lora
Evanston, IL

Messages in this topic (3)
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6a. Re: GSD first time raw feeding
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 9:50 pm ((PDT))

Np, Star!
Depends.....
If you want to feed real whole prey, not defeathered, get them with
the heads 'n feets on if you can.
You can get your supplies in the supermarket, tho' - but I'd try to
buy whole chickens or turkeys and split them myself.
TC
Giselle

> Thanks Giselle!
>
> I am sorry I didn't fully clarify...oops....in focus on bones I was
thinking choking hazards.
> The no neck unless attached things makes much sense. So the quarter
turkey or half
> chicken would be from a slaughterhouse with all parts attached but
defeathered, or would
> it be like you see packs of cut up whole chicken with giblets
'inside'. This entire meat thing
> confuses me- any my brother was also raised vegetarian....
>
> What exactly would he ask the slaughter house for, or the
supermarket butcher?
>
> Sorry to be so dense!
> Star
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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7a. Re: Eggs gave bad gas..
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 9:54 pm ((PDT))

Hmmm, could mean anything, really.
The only way to know if the gas will go away is to keep feeding them,
and see. ; )
But gas won't hurt him.
Not necessary for him to eat the shells, or even eat eggs, if the gas
is really too stinky for the humans to tolerate.
I'd only feed him one egg if I were feeding him, and I'd give it with
meals that generally don't produce gas.
I'm lucky, I don't feed eggs much, but my girl doesn't seem to get gas
from anything I do feed her, even eggs.
TC
Giselle

> I gave Blue raw eggs twice and he loved them, though he didn't even
> try to eat the shells. But both times, later in the day he had
> horribly smelly gas... He stunk my step-dad out of the next room, and
> it was even on a lower lever of the house! His gas never smells this
> bad otherwise. Does this mean he shouldn't eat eggs, or is this just a
> side effect?
>
> - Jeni & Blue -
>

Messages in this topic (2)
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8. Livestock yields
Posted by: "Bearhair" bearhair@spamcop.net bearhair61
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 10:09 pm ((PDT))

BEEF YIELD
>http://www.askthemeatman.com/yield_on_beef_carcass.htm
>http://www.askthemeatman.com/yield_on_beef_carcass.htm#breakdown and keep scrolling down

DEER YIELD
>http://www.butcher-packer.com/pages-document_general_info/category-36/product-331/articles-and-information-how-much-meat-will-your-deer-yield.html
>http://www.best-venison.com/value-chart.html
>http://www.askthemeatman.com/estimate_deer_weight.htm

HOG YIELD
>http://www.uky.edu/Ag/KyMeat/pubs/web_pork_cutout.xls
>http://www.askthemeatman.com/yield_on_hog.htm

Sheep and goat yields are highly variable based on breed.

Lora
Evanston, IL

Messages in this topic (1)
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9.1. Re: itchy dog
Posted by: "Patrice Quinn" patrice@patricequinn.com patrice_quinn
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 11:37 pm ((PDT))

Laurie, Sorry for the delay in replying to your question, it's been nuts
here for a couple of days and email got pushed down a few rungs on the
priority list.

I obtained the yeast kit through www.nzymes.com

and Sophie is on day two of
her treatment. Feel free to write me directly at patrice@patricequinn.com
if you want to talk more about this. I'll be happy to keep you up to date
on her progress if you'd like.

I found the NZymes website through other websites as I did my research and
didn't initially get the kit as I hoped I could remedy the problem myself
through other avenues. But recently I reconsidered and am glad I did. I
think you will find very interesting testimonials and information there. I
did send them an email asking their thoughts on rawfeeding and how they
think it might affect the treatment so I'm interested in their response.
They are clear on how detrimental most commercial foods are and have their
own recommendations of better-made foods which are primarily meat-based.
They don't specifically recommend raw feeding but I haven't seen anything
there to suggest they are in any way against it. So I wonder if the only
reason they don't recommend it is that they believe the idea would not be
received well by many of their potential customers. Just speculation on my
part. I'm so new to both the treatment of Sophie's infection and to raw
feeding and I'm excited to see the results of both.

I'm still in shock over the IMMEDIATE positive response all three of our
dogs have had to raw feeding. Fingers crossed that it continues to go well!
Take care, Laurie. I hope you will stay in touch, Patrice

-------Original Message-------

From: Laurie
Date: 7/1/2007 7:41:43 AM
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: itchy dog

Hi Patrice,

Thank you so much for your response. Please tell me more about this
yeast kit. Where can I buy it? Who makes it? I live in NJ. Thanks
again!!

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Patrice Quinn" <patrice@...>
wrote:
>
> Laurie, Please forgive if someone else has already answered this
for you but
> your problem sounds similar to mine and I believe I have found a
solution.
> I did a LOT of Internet research on my own after spending about
$1,000 in
> vet bills with no diagnosis, all the while he's giving our dachsie
> antibiotics, steroids, etc. And she is getting more and more itchy
all over
> her body, then her skin started turning black, etc. I found a site
www
> nzymes.com which described a number of dogs with similar symptoms
and
> experiences as ours. It (and other sites I found) explained that
the
> problem is systemic yeast infection and the cause is basically
commercial
> dog foods, antibiotics, steroids, etc. Three days ago, I purchased
a "yeast
> kit" for $110. It arrived in one day and I started her immediately
(some of
> it is oral, some topical). Within a day of starting the topical
solution on
> her, Sophie's itching seems to have calmed down some. So, here's
hoping this
> is the answer to her year-long misery.
>
> I also just started our three dogs on raw just a few days ago.
They've
> never eaten anthing raw in their 10, 12 and 14 year lives and they
didn't
> even sniff twice before chomping down their first meal! I was so
shocked.
> They took to it like a duck to water and so far, no negative
reactions,
> perhaps because we took them all off commercial six months ago and
I have
> been cooking up a concoction of meat, rice and veggies--what a
hassle!
> Feeding them raw just makes so much sense to me even though our vet
> discouraged it.
>
> I hope this will be helpful in some way. Good luck with your PWD.
Let me
> know how it goes! Patrice
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Laurie
> Date: 6/29/2007 7:03:24 AM
> To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [rawfeeding] itchy dog
>
> My Portguese water dog has been on raw feeding for two months and
has
> no improvement with her itchy skin. I'm at my wits end trying to
> figure out how to get her comfortable. She's been through ALL the
> treatments the vet had to offer (allergy shots, shampoos, steroids,
> antihistimines, etc) and I thought the raw diet would be the
answer.
> Does anyone have any experience they can share with me? If it
matters,
> her allergy tests showed she is allergic to grass, mold, sycamores,
> ants, fleas. Obviously, keeping her indoors for the rest of her
life
> is not an option!
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Laurie
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (34)
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10a. Re: expiration dates
Posted by: "pelirojita" kerrymurray7@gmail.com pelirojita
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 11:38 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>

> Stands to reason, don't it.
> But I don't know for sure. Seems to me that the 4th of July holiday
> starts the weekend before and ends the Sunday afterwards in
> retailspeak. But it strikes me as reasonable to me to consider
> trolling on the evening of the 4th. Heck, morning of July 5 doesn't
> seem too shabby either. (Like to share some waffles with me?)
>
(Would love to share waffles as long as it is outside of AZ - we're
looking at record highs Wed and Thurs of 115F!!) Actually your
response was helpful in and of itself. I am new to even walking down
the meat aisle and it never occurred to me that the holiday would go
on for so long, though upon perusing the Sunday newspaper food ads,
you would be right. Strategic shopping is usually a strength of mine
- just need to reenter the world of meat ;)

Thank you,
Kerry

P.S. started on chicken quarters with the puppies tonight and even my
finicky 9 year old Golden rescue dove right in, she's my reason for
switching as it was obvious her allergies were not improving on any
"prepared" food - better get shopping so my freezer will be well
stocked once they are ready for some variety.

Messages in this topic (7)
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11a. Re: Questioning and need reassurance
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 4:50 am ((PDT))

Regarding this response on the list:

"Raw is absolutely the very best thing for the carnivore's kidneys
(particularly if their function is compromised)(particularly if their funct
with your girl, staying with a commercial diet would not have been a good
thing."

Well.....yes and no. Commercial, for sure, would not be a good thing. But
there ARE problems with feeding raw without really careful balancing. It's
the phosphorous that needs to be limited and it's hard to get enough high
digestible protein and calories into a kidney dog and keep that phosphorous
limited on a meat, and espeically meat and bones, diet. For more info go to
k9kidneydiet list.

I'd hate to see someone go off with a dog in kidney failure thinking that
they could just feed as usual when diet could make such a difference. This
list is for mostly healthy dogs, yes? In the wild, the kidney problems might
not be as prevalent, but when the occur, death would most likely follow. At
least we have a chance to give our guys a longer and more comfortable life
after that dreaded diagnosis.

Hope this is ok for the list. Just taking the lead from reading the above.

Carol for Spencer (in memory of Pooger who died of renal failure after a
long valiant fight)

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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12a. Re: Identifying edible bones versus "tooth-wreckers"
Posted by: "chele519" chele519@yahoo.com chele519
Date: Tue Jul 3, 2007 5:18 am ((PDT))

One of my dogs is probably about the same size as your Golden and she
eats pork shoulder as her main food due to allergies. You definitely
cannot cut those unless maybe using a table saw. :) They can eat it
but it will take a little longer than with chicken. Just watch and see
how they do. Sometimes there is a piece of bone that is kind of hinged
on by tendons and I think it is part of the leg. This seems harder to
me than the rest of the shoulder and sometimes I take it away since
they don't need that much bone. I don't think they'd break a tooth on
it though.
Michele

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "wenigj" <wenigj@...> wrote:

> I just got my first pork shoulder roast and when I opened it noticed
> that there are some big bones inside the meat. They look like about
> 1/2 to and inch thick. I don't think they could be cut up (like
> chicken bones) and I'm worried about giving them to my dogs who have
> only had bones they could chew up (11mo and 13 yr old Goldens)
> Will they figure this out and just pull the meat away from the bones,
> or should I try to cut the meat off because I don't want them to break
> their teeth?

Messages in this topic (5)
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