[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11752

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Ground beef
From: kimberlykay1119
1b. Re: Ground beef
From: carnesbill
1c. Re: Ground beef
From: Jeannine
1d. Re: Ground beef
From: chele519
1e. Re: Ground beef
From: Jeannine

2a. Re: Advice re: softest bones?
From: costrowski75
2b. Re: Advice re: softest bones?
From: Jaimie Young

3a. Re: Howdy!
From: mlodge
3b. Re: Howdy!
From: carnesbill
3c. Re: Howdy!
From: tottime47

4. Sources?
From: antarpremal

5a. fat belly
From: Diane
5b. Re: fat belly
From: Casey Post

6. sources?
From: antarpremal

7a. Re: Your thoughts as I take the plunge?
From: tottime47
7b. Re: Your thoughts as I take the plunge?
From: Andrea

8a. lamb neck bones
From: noveltycakedecorator
8b. Re: lamb neck bones
From: Giselle

9. expiration dates
From: Jessie

10. Shots & vaccines
From: Val Kilmer

11. Re: sarcasm and beratement
From: Michael Moore

12. Veal breast
From: Kathy McCusker

13a. Re: Need Help. PLEASE
From: merril Woolf

14.1. Re: venison
From: Yasuko herron

15a. Re: supplemnet for joints(this may not be topic here so,I post at ra
From: Yasuko herron

Messages
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1a. Re: Ground beef
Posted by: "kimberlykay1119" kimberlykay119@sbcglobal.net kimberlykay1119
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 6:59 am ((PDT))

Just to add my .02 here, a friend just gave us 20 pounds of ground
venison last Friday. We fed it frozen, so the jaws still got a little
work out. I always forget that we can stuff the Kong with it. That
will probably be our next attempt to feed. Other than some gas from
the higher fat content, everyone tolerated the venison well. I told
our friend we would want him to bag 2 deer next time he goes and pay
the $40 for the butchering. I am so excited, I can't wait for hunting
season.
Kimberly

> It's not optimal to feed lots of ground all of the time, but it can
> have a place in a good diet. It doesn't require the dog to work
> at/rip/tear apart and doesn't have bones, so is of no help in the
> dental hygiene area. It can be high in fat, which is just something
to
> keep in mind.

Messages in this topic (14)
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1b. Re: Ground beef
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 7:05 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "trayc2244" <BreeZ119@...> wrote:
>
> Is ground beef okay to feed?
>

Sure its ok to feed on a limited basis. Like Laurie said, you don't
want to feed it every day but it's great to supplement a real boney
meal or to feed alone once or twice a week maybe even more.
Personally I don't see that a meal of ground beef would be any
different than any other boneless meal.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (14)
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1c. Re: Ground beef
Posted by: "Jeannine" rosewhatley@msn.com eastexgranny
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 7:05 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kimberlykay1119"
<kimberlykay119@...> wrote:
>
> Just to add my .02 here, a friend just gave us 20 pounds of ground
> venison last Friday. We fed it frozen, so the jaws still got a
little
> work out. I always forget that we can stuff the Kong with it.
That
> will probably be our next attempt to feed. Other than some gas
from
> the higher fat content, everyone tolerated the venison well. I
told
> our friend we would want him to bag 2 deer next time he goes and
pay
> the $40 for the butchering. I am so excited, I can't wait for
hunting
> season.
> Kimberly
>

May I ask, "What is Kong"?
Thanks,
Jeannine

Messages in this topic (14)
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1d. Re: Ground beef
Posted by: "chele519" chele519@yahoo.com chele519
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 8:54 am ((PDT))

It's a hard rubber in various shapes you can fill with food for your dog.

http://www.kongcompany.com/

i run at 5am and the dogs bark and my
neighbor complains. I give them a Kong filled with ground meat and
frozen and it keeps them quiet for at least an hour.
Michele

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jeannine" <rosewhatley@...> wrote:

>
> May I ask, "What is Kong"?
> Thanks,
> Jeannine
>

Messages in this topic (14)
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1e. Re: Ground beef
Posted by: "Jeannine" rosewhatley@msn.com eastexgranny
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 1:31 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "chele519" <chele519@...> wrote:
>
> It's a hard rubber in various shapes you can fill with food for your
dog.
> http://www.kongcompany.com/

i run at 5am and the dogs bark and my
> neighbor complains. I give them a Kong filled with ground meat and
> frozen and it keeps them quiet for at least an hour.
> Michele
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jeannine" <rosewhatley@> wrote:
>
> >
> > May I ask, "What is Kong"?
> > Thanks,
> > Jeannine
> >
>
Thank you so much, Michelle!
I may get one for Daisy.
Jeannine

Messages in this topic (14)
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2a. Re: Advice re: softest bones?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 7:26 am ((PDT))

Samantha Morris <smmastai@...> wrote:
also tried lamb ribs this
> weekend. I know the ribs contain a fair amount of
> bone so I will try to get a meatier piece of the
> animal next time.
*****
Just as one can include bony parts like chicken and turkey backs in a
menu that is generous with its meat, lamb ribs can also be fed even
though by themselves they are pretty bony. It's only if/when these
bony body parts hijack the menu that they need to be restrained.

So if feeding lamb ribs gives your dog a rip and tear opportunity (or
at least the chance to puzzle out an approach), feed them. Adding
meat to the meal is a fine way of defusing what might be--for the dog-
-a too bony meal.

> My question re. poultry legs was are they hard on the
> teeth since they are weight bearing bones?
*****
No. Not unless you are feeding home grown birds that have been
running around for some years. Commercial chickens die young.

I have however fed buffalo necks and beef
> necks which I bought frozen from a pet store that
> carries raw.
*****
My vote goes unequivocally to those nasty bones the pet store sold
you. A bone doesn't have to be edible to be dangerous. Please
reconsider rec bones. Chicken legs are not the issue here.

You should be able to feed chicken bones, most turkey bones, most
lamb and goat bones, most pork bones, fish bones, some venison bones,
rabbit bones, quail bones, duck bones, squirrel bones the bones of
other small prey animals.

Just stay away from bones from earthshakingly heavy critters. No
bison, no beef, no horse, no elephant. Meat: fine. Bones: not fine.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
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2b. Re: Advice re: softest bones?
Posted by: "Jaimie Young" jaimiey@gmail.com nadiachef06
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 1:31 pm ((PDT))

> No. Not unless you are feeding home grown birds that have been
> running around for some years. Commercial chickens die young.

We got a bunch of pastured roosters from a farm somewhat nearby- that
were definitely running around for some years- and the bones are
harder to cut through than turkey... my dogs' teeth are just fine, and
they can eat the bones, but are they hard enough to be a potential
dental problem? Thanks

Jaimie

Messages in this topic (7)
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3a. Re: Howdy!
Posted by: "mlodge" mmlodge@att.net mlodge
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 7:41 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "sazkeeper" <sazkeeper@...> wrote:
...
> If I had known that sarcasm and beratement were the way I was going
> to be greeted as a new raw feeder - I might have thought again about
> joining this list. Maybe I still will...or maybe someone can tell me
> I read too much into this reply...dunno. I hope you don't greet all
> newbies this way.
>
> Kameron
>

Welcome, Kameron.

There are very helpful instructions, imo, on drying liver in the oven
for training treats, here somewhere -- hope you can find those, I
will help look for them if you need.
Yeah on the sarcasm and detailed, critical welcomes. I have seen it
over and over again here, but I have found plenty of "moderates"
around who will help you out. Best of luck and don't be scared
away. We all have the same goal: healthier dogs.

Melissa

Messages in this topic (8)
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3b. Re: Howdy!
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 7:42 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "sazkeeper" <sazkeeper@...> wrote:
>
> Fact is, it didn't and backs were all I got - so I had to
> make due.
> It was my understanding that variety over time made balance...
> and, I
> have been going through my freezer to see what I already have and
> have fed breast meat as well - just backs as a staple. And, as one
> of my "large dogs" is still a nine-week-old puppy, backs (as I see
> it) are more suitable bones for him than legs.

Kameron,
What you have to realize is that in the area of raw feeding a dog or
cat, there are no rules carved in stone. The only serious rule is
to feed raw meat, bones, and organs from a variety of animals.
EVERYTHING else is merely opinion on the correct way to do that. I
have fed my dogs raw for over 4 1/2 years and there are many here
that have been raw feeding much longer. None of us feeds exactly
the same way. I doubt that you can find any two raw feeders that
feed exactly the same.

Having said that, I feed chicken backs to my two Great Danes every
day and have from the first day I began feeding raw. I suggest to
anyone that is just beginning a raw diet for their dogs to feed
nothing but chicken backs for the first week. This greatly helps in
preventing digestive upsets. Almost none of the dogs I have helped
switch have had any upsets. You can see my recommendations for
beginning a raw diet on my web page at

http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Don't worry a lot about balance particularly in the first couple of
months. In the beginning you are getting your dogs adjusted to
eating real food. After you have introduced a variety of protein
sources, if you feed a variety of parts from a variety of animals
along with some organs occasionally, balance will happen
automatically.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (8)
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3c. Re: Howdy!
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 7:43 am ((PDT))

Hi Kameron,

Welcome to the group.

I have only been feeding raw for a few months and
have found this group to be generous in their help and more
patience than any group I've ever been in.

They continually go over the same ground for
those too lazy or dense to read the past posts for answers....

I have never seen anyone here get sarcastic or berate anyone.
I read back through the posts you received, no where did I see that,
maybe a light teasing, but sarcasim, no...........

Each of us in the group has our own way of talking, just like in
life.........Maybe you should learn to bend a little
more.........sift out the advice and don't take every word
as a personal affront to you?

Even as a new feeder myself, when I opened your email and read
where you were feeding a new puppy chicken backs, I was
shocked.........

No where did it say you were feeding anything else but yogurt and
vitamin supplement.........

People here care about dogs and are working
hard to help us learn how to feed them properly........

Freely giving of their time and knowledge to help us and getting
nothing in return but the knowledge that they are helping dogs all
over the world.
How many are willing to do that for free?

Look at it this way, if you had a new baby and posted on a site
that you were feeding it
juice instead of formula, how do you think they'd respond, lol?

Yea, I think you read too much into all the replys.......maybe you
should stick around, learn how to feed properly and learn what a
great group this is.....If you decide not to, it's your loss and
your dogs too.........

Carol & Charkee ( I'm lovin' it mom)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "sazkeeper" <sazkeeper@...> wrote:

I just switched the two dogs to raw...
Right now they are both eating chicken backs, a little yogurt
in the morning, fish oil, and nupro joint supplement. I'm not sure
about supplementation yet - but will probably continue the fish oil,
and maybe switch from nupro (lots of volume of powder) to missing
link plus - mainly for the glucosamine, as both are sport dogs

Bodo, my 3yr old, made the switch no problem.
No diarrhea or anything. Lucky me! Bart is my new puppy - only 9
weeks old

Well, I guess I need to explain myself a little better - so I don't
get flamed uneccesarily. I've only been feeding raw for a little
UNDER a week - and all my research said to start with one type of
food at a time. I fully intend to add more muscle meat and organ
meat - and probably would have faster, had my entire order come in.
Fact is, it didn't and backs were all I got - so I had to make due.
It was my understanding that variety over time made balance...and, I
have been going through my freezer to see what I already have and
have fed breast meat as well - just backs as a staple. And, as one
of my "large dogs" is still a nine-week-old puppy, backs (as I see
it) are more suitable bones for him than legs.

If I get a better reception there, maybe I will. I assumed since the
name of this group is "rawfeeding" that it wasn't dog-exclusive.

If I had known that sarcasm and beratement were the way I was going
to be greeted as a new raw feeder - I might have thought again about
joining this list. Maybe I still will...or maybe someone can tell me
I read too much into this reply...dunno. I hope you don't greet all
newbies this way.

Kameron

Messages in this topic (8)
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4. Sources?
Posted by: "antarpremal" antarpremal@yahoo.com antarpremal
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 7:41 am ((PDT))

Hi. This is Jennifer. I recently posted for the first time. Just started feeding raw and have
been learning a lot on this site. Thank you.

I am wondering if you have sources to find meat that will be mailed to the house. I
currently shop at whole foods, but most of the red meat there is off bone aside from beef
ribs and lamb steak. plus it is of course expensive.

I travel to a farm for raw milk for my son. They have meat parts there but want 7.00 a lb
for heart and liver!

I am still interested in the grass fed hormone free stuff. I live in NJ, and don't know of any
butchers around here.

Anyone?

Thanks again!

Jennifer (and sacha....5 month old golden rereiver chow mix)

Messages in this topic (1)
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5a. fat belly
Posted by: "Diane" dheinicke@sbcglobal.net dalethah
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 7:41 am ((PDT))

We have a pit mix and a greyhound. We've been feeding raw for about
2 months and it's going well. Our greyhound is about 65 pounds and
the pit is about 45 or so. She is older (she's maybe 8 or 9) and a
lot less active than the greyhound (3yrs old). The pit used to get
half what the greyhound got when we were feeding kibble. I've tried
to stick with that, but don't measure quite as accurately. They
started off on all chicken, and have been getting some pork, an egg
every once in awhile and some liver.
A question - our pit girl has developed a round belly, pretty firm,
she looks kind of pregnant (impossible). She had surgery a little
over a year ago after she ate what turned out to be a tassle off of
a pillow and was blocked. She didn't eat for over a week and almost
withered away. So she has had some work done on her digestive track.
She also seems a bit sluggish now. I'm planning on cutting back on
her food and see if she drops some weight. Is it most likely just
that she's fat or might it be something else? I've read only a
little about bloating, don't know if it could be that? She hasn't
been gassy, and is always ready to eat at mealtime.

DH

Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: fat belly
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 8:49 am ((PDT))

> A question - our pit girl has developed a round belly, pretty firm,
> she looks kind of pregnant (impossible).

DH,

This is a bit of a red flag for me. It sounds too localized to be normal
weight gain. I would get her looked at by a vet.

Casey

Messages in this topic (2)
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6. sources?
Posted by: "antarpremal" antarpremal@yahoo.com antarpremal
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 7:42 am ((PDT))

Oh yeah and a follow up question....I would love to get some wild meat, rabbit, elk,
deer.....not easy to come by in the suburbs. They have ground buffallo at whole foods but
that's the best I can do.

Thanks! Jennifer

Messages in this topic (1)
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7a. Re: Your thoughts as I take the plunge?
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 8:53 am ((PDT))

Hi Jeff,

Sorry, it looks like your post got lost in the group.......
How has your dog doing now?

You need to keep her on one meat for at least a week to let
her body adjust to it......If she doesn't have any stool problems
then you can add a second meat....I'd try giving her a pork roast....
seems that's the fattiest meats to give.........

Do as much reading of past posts here as you can.....you will gain a
lot of information on raw feeding for her.........

You could add some salmon oil right away. You can get the capsuls
at a health food store....search for salmon oil here on the site and
you'll get plenty of information on it.........

If she's still doing well with the chicken you could start adding
the liver & heart, gizzard from it.......

MODERATORS NOTE: TRIM YOUR MAILS, PLEASE! THIS WAS TRIMMED FOR YOU!!

She didn't get that skinny overnight so it's going to take
awhile for her to fill out if she has no other problems....
Maybe weeks.......

You want to feed her good, but don't want to try overfeeding at
each meal as it can cause loose stools..

I think you could offer her two meals a day until she shows
improvment.......

Keep an eye out for loose stools, it they turn watery,and stay that
way for several days, you could get some slippery elm bark powder and
sprinkle it on her food for a few days.........

Keep an eye on her will she's eating - stay in the area as she
is new to raw and could gulp or such and needs someone around if she
has any problems...........

Good luck, and repost if you don't get answered.......This is a busy
roup.........

Carol & Charkee

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cresco299" <gentry.jeffrey@...>
wrote:
>
> After much reading, I've finally decided to take the plunge.
>
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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7b. Re: Your thoughts as I take the plunge?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 1:31 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Jeffrey, sorry we missed this one earlier. Sounds like she's
taken to raw pretty well, I hope this will help her gain some
weight!

> 1)Are there any feeding regimes or special cuts of meat that I
> should be striving to feed to pack on the weight in a healthy
> manner?

I think the fact that she is excited about eating will help a lot in
this area. If she does well with chicken for a week or so and her
stools and digestion are good, I'd recommend switching to pork next.
Pork is pretty fatty, so that will help get some poundage on her.
You can try offering treats like pig's feet for her between mealtimes
too.

> 2)"Assuming" her weight problem is merely caused by lack of interest
> and diet alone, when should I expect to see results (weight gain)
> Days? Weeks?

It really depends on her. Some people notice their chunkier dogs
slimming down in a few weeks. If she's really underweight, I would
imagine you would see her at least start to fill out in a couple of
days. If she's eating well for more than two weeks and doesn't look
any different, I'd take her to the vet for some tests.

> 3)Given her present weight; how much is too much to be feeding her?
> (every ounce is precious, I don't want her to skip a meal because I
> over fed and she throws it all up)

You want to feed her based off of her ideal weight, so feed about a
pound of food a day. If you feed her too much at once she'll end up
with loose stools. And like you said, you want to safely put weight
on her, so you don't want to go overboard on the food.

> 4) And lastly - what if any warning signs should I be aware of?

Hmm. . .Dark blood (almost black) in the stool is something I would
be concerned about, but bright red blood is ok. Loose stools
sometimes happen, and unless it is uncontrollable watery diarreah it
isn't a big deal. Dogs sometimes swallow too big of a piece of food
and have to bring it back up for a second try, so vomiting and re-
eating is ok. Newbie dogs can also vomit up bile and bone bits after
a boney meal, so no worries about that either.

I don't know what her activity level has been like since she's so
thin, but lots of owners notice a certain amount of frantic energy
goes away when the carbs of ki**le are gone.

Hope everything is going well with the switch!

Andrea

Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. lamb neck bones
Posted by: "noveltycakedecorator" Elaine@creativecelebrationcakes.co.uk noveltycakedecorator
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 8:53 am ((PDT))

I've given my 16wk Mastiff (approximately the size of a Labrador) two
chunky lamb necks over the weekend, and although she's removed most of
the meat off of them she doesn't seem to bothered about the bone. She
knaws on them occasionally but is taking a very long time to eat them.
She is currently teething would this effect her ability to eat the
bones? She had a turkey leg the other day and again left the bone only
to knaw on it occasionally.

The question is do I just leave her with them or do I take them away?

I left her with the turkey bone for a coupple of days before taking it
away and she's still got the lamb neck bones now.

I've got some chicken for her tonight and she always eats that all up.

What do you think?

Thanks
Elaine

Messages in this topic (7)
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8b. Re: lamb neck bones
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 10:33 am ((PDT))

Hi, Elaine!
Any food, meat or bone that is left after about 15 minutes, unless
they are still actively working on it, I take up and put in the fridge
for a later meal. That is, unless its a bone that I deem too hard for
that particular dog to be safe chewing up. Those, I toss out.
Whether your pup is capable of eating them, or not, if she hasn't
eaten them in a reasonable period of time (15 minutes) take them up,
and decide to either toss it or put it in the fridge.
Bones can get dried out and brittle if left to lie around for very
long. I don't think it is a good practice to allow uneaten meals/bones
to just lie around.
Remember, all the bone offered doesn't need to be consumed. Dogs, and
pups only need about 10% of their diet to be bone, 80% meat and 10%
organ.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I've given my 16wk Mastiff (approximately the size of a Labrador) two
> chunky lamb necks over the weekend, and although she's removed most of
> the meat off of them she doesn't seem to bothered about the bone. She
> knaws on them occasionally but is taking a very long time to eat them.
> She is currently teething would this effect her ability to eat the
> bones? She had a turkey leg the other day and again left the bone only
> to gnaw on it occasionally.
>
> The question is do I just leave her with them or do I take them away?
>
> I left her with the turkey bone for a couple of days before taking it
> away and she's still got the lamb neck bones now.
>
> I've got some chicken for her tonight and she always eats that all up.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Thanks
> Elaine
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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9. expiration dates
Posted by: "Jessie" O_snobunnie_O@hotmail.com osnobunnieo
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 1:30 pm ((PDT))

how do you guys feel about using meat close to, on or after its
expiration date?

I already plan to feed what I bought and not worry about it, but I
don't plan on using only old meat... just didn't know if anyone
followed any guidelines on the dates?

I was buying some meat the other day and for the first time (I'm a
little slow sometimes!) noticed the big orange "special today"
stickers on a few items I usually buy... turkey necks and drumsticks
were both packaged for $1 per pack (I think they were between 2-3lbs
each) because they expired tomorrow. I took the last two packs of
each, and they went straight to the freezer.

So now that I've realized where to find the sale priced meats I'll
be keeping an eye out, but just wanted to know if there's anything
special I need to do?

I plan on either feeding it that day or freezing it and feeding it
immediately (rather than letting it sit in the fridge for a few days
like I usually do if I don't use the entire bag at once).

Thanks!

Jessie

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10. Shots & vaccines
Posted by: "Val Kilmer" DPM333@aol.com dferris23
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 1:31 pm ((PDT))

15 week old pup: ben on raw from 6 weeks of age. Addapted great with
wide variaty of meats, organs, bones, etc.... some supps: oils,
vitimens, etc...
Vet just put him on hertworm pills.(u know the once a month pill with
the sticker that u put on the calander). Hes had shots every 3 weeks &
vet wants him back in 3 more weeks for his 18 week shots.
What shots should he still need & when can i stop giving him shots if
at all, & does he need these heartworm pills? any info/support will
help.
Thanks, Derek in Chicago

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11. Re: sarcasm and beratement
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 1:31 pm ((PDT))

Let me first welcome you to the list. I guess I missed the comments that you considered offensive, but I've been on the list off-and-on for almost six years. Remember that e-mail doesn't allow us to "see" the other person's facial expression, which, in face-to-face encounters, delivers a lot of the person's "meaning" to us.
Each of us has a unique "delivery" of messages, and I've found no end to the helpful advice here. Try not to take it personally! You may find a number of folks here with off-beat, wacky senses of humor (and you know who you are!), but I personally get a big, big kick out of those people. In truth, it's why I'm still here!
It's hard when we first start to get our heads around so many concepts that long-timers take for granted. We have concerns, fears, questions that baffle and confound us. We're apprehensive, if not downright scared (I know I was!!).
There is soooo much knowledge and caring on this group. No one has an "agenda," or stands to gain financially. People are here because they feel very strongly that rawfeeding-- done nature's way -- is the absolute best way to feed our "house wolves." They spend countless hours answering questions, providing advice, and, for me, adding a few giggles to my life. I appreciate all these folks -- diverse as they are in their "style."
My hope is that you'll stick around and find the same.
Good luck.

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

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12. Veal breast
Posted by: "Kathy McCusker" kmccusker72@hotmail.com kathym14456
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 1:31 pm ((PDT))

Jagger has finally had a solid poop. Gave him some veal breast this
am and he has watery poop. I'm guessing this happens whenever you
intoduce something new. Do I continue to give it to him in hopes that
he will adjust? Thanks again and sorry for all the posts, Kathy

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13a. Re: Need Help. PLEASE
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 1:31 pm ((PDT))

>
> Hi Casey, yes he would have eaten it again if I didn't stop him.
> Totally grossed me out.> >

You should have let him re-eat it. It would have been a bit warmer than the frozen you fed
him so would have gone down better the second time.

If he does it again, let him be. He'll clean it up. Maybe less food or not frozen next time
until his body can handle the change better.

Shame you wasted all that good food. :-(( I'm going to be thinking about that all day now.
:-)

Merril

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14.1. Re: venison
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 1:32 pm ((PDT))

>1 or 2# of venison about 1# of pork kidneys about another 1# of beef liver and before that, >turkeys were on sale, so he had a couple whole turkeys with the organs they came with
>(14-16# each)

Hi,Sandy. I happened to be reading old thread here and,I noticed that in the post of your feeding list,I saw you feeding venison.

I know you are from Richmond,VA,so,I am curious where do you get Venison from?

The other day,I visited Tan-A-supermarket you recommended and,I think they did not have venison there.I saw some organs,fish,Pig feet,Chicken feet,some Duck parts and frozen goat meat slice.But,yes,I saw some stuff i could get hands on and than you for that.It took us drive there about 40mins but it was not bad at all.Plus,I found my favorite Kokuho Rose Rice:-P

I would be appreciated if you could tell me where you get that venison from.

Thank you

yassy

PS:My dog now on Pork.So,She can eat Turkey Chicken ,Beef,Fish and new Pork.Beef Ribs were my dog's quite challenging stuff for bone but Pork looks more challenging compare to other meat.Looks more chewy or more silver skin?? to work with.

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15a. Re: supplemnet for joints(this may not be topic here so,I post at ra
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 1:32 pm ((PDT))

> Can any one recommend a good glucosomine supplement

Hi. My dog corgi 1 year 8 month now had bad limping around 8 months ago.
We did not know what was wrong and vet tested some manuplating hind leg on vet table and first time he told us to wait and see because he could not find anything bad with joint. Next time we visited,my dog got x-rayed and sedated to see more abnormal movement of leg.He told us that there was some possibility of arthritis shows on the x-ray picture and,we looked for specialist (southpaw in fairfax,VA) and our new vet told us about surgery. She was about to do similar to ACL surgery but not like pitting any metal thing in her leg(I forgot what it called) and when she opned up my dog leg,she was going to check if Patela(knee cap prob) is the cause of limping or not.

Now,we were so worried for the fact of not knowing the cause of limping and expensive surgery (1 leg 3000 dollars!!) . We could just restrain my dog's activity and heal it by herself since some cases,dog can heal up by itself I heard. But we chose surgery and,my dog went through surgery BUT,vet specialist did not find any patella problems and all my dog's hind leg's ligament was not tore although both vets were suspecting it should have been tored,and vet just opened my dog knee and took biopsy sample and just closed the leg.

Now,at this point,still everybody not sure waht was wrong with to mae my dog limping.

We anyway,put Elizabeth collar for my dog and restricted activity;no walk no stairs no jumping etc for about 6-8 weeks.

After such period,still she was limping. Vet now knew just the biopsy sample showed bit swolen and nothing else.So, 2 months after surgery,still unsure about cause and,we backed to specialist and now more experienced vet at same hospital got in charge for my dog and said that,maybe the muscle around hip and leg maybe the cause..

He told us to make appointment after a few weeks of wait and see;restricted activity.

Well,we didn't call him and did not back to that hospital.

Around that time, I came across Whole Dog Journal magazine and incidentally,the article that I got that month was featuring about joint pain. It talked about gulucosamin chondrotin,Green ripped mussel, and something else that works great for joint pain repair and preventation I remember.

So, I googled through supplements for that thinking it may change my dog limping.

Well,I bought Primary Joint Care plus that got glucosamin and green ripped mussle and other stuff (you can check on site for ingredients) at www.drsfostersmith.com

I think base ingredients are quite similar to grycoflex that cost you about 70 dollars per bottle but this one is about 30 dolars or something.

It is a tablet and, first some months,I gave my dog 1 tablet per meal total 2 tablet in a day.

Now,it did helped limping and she stopped limping and running like crazy and not favoring any leg anymore.

So,after the change,I reduced dosage to half the tablet per meal and total 1 tablet daily.

Then,we now can go for walk no problems.

I do not know any of your dog conditions get effected by any ingredients so,I suggest ask the people at drsfostersmith.com staff.They are helpful.You can call them up or e-mail them. They may help you.

Each dog is different and no idea if this works better for any other dogs but mind reacted real well.

At this moment,I am not giving this supplements because she is not limping anymore quite long time and act normal and,the food we give has some natural glucosamin (chicken feet/chicken wing etc.. of course,when I give these ,i need to give meaty piece too but..) .
So,I am thinking that if she started limping again regardless this raw food diet and getting natural glucosamin,I might give this supplement but not now. She is healthy enough.

Afterall,noone knows why my dog was limping but,I am bit suspecting diet and vaccination.
I am trying to learn best care possible for my dog here.

I hope this helps.

yassy

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