[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11753

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: are the chickens at risk???
From: Jaimie Young

2a. Re: Advice re: softest bones?
From: Sam

3a. Shots N Vaccines
From: Val Kilmer
3b. Re: Shots N Vaccines
From: Michelle LaFay

4a. Re: Beef Heart
From: Tina Berry

5. pork heads - keep how long ? Smash ? Elk heads ?
From: Lisa S.

6a. Re: Feeding 6 month old pups
From: Kay

7. whole furry rabbit & quail with feathers on
From: Lisa S.

8a. Identifying edible bones versus "tooth-wreckers"
From: K Carolyn Ramamurti
8b. Re: Identifying edible bones versus "tooth-wreckers"
From: Laurie Swanson
8c. Re: Identifying edible bones versus "tooth-wreckers"
From: Karen Swanay

9. Michigan Suppliers
From: Compassion for Greyhounds

10a. Re: Veal breast
From: metra_co

11a. Feeding Raw
From: truthseeker448

12. PROBLEMS WITH GROUND EGGSHELLS, ANYONE?
From: alliecaracleo

13. Questioning and need reassurance
From: woofwoofgrrl

14a. Re: expiration dates
From: carnesbill
14b. Re: expiration dates
From: costrowski75

15. super gassy doggy
From: LaUrA

16. Bitten while taking a bone away
From: stacey7881

17a. Re: Shots & vaccines
From: carnesbill

18a. Re: Howdy!
From: costrowski75

19a. Re: different cuts of ribs - and lamb/goat cuts
From: costrowski75

20a. Re: sources?
From: costrowski75

21a. Re: Need Help. PLEASE
From: costrowski75

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: are the chickens at risk???
Posted by: "Jaimie Young" jaimiey@gmail.com nadiachef06
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 1:32 pm ((PDT))

Well, it isn't chickens, but later the same night that we fed our
dogs a whole stillborn goat, we took them to our uncle's farm where
he keeps pygmie (sp?) goats. My dogs were scared of them, even the
babies, and when they finally showed a hesitant interest they wanted
to play with these "strange creatures." So no blood lust was
created there.

Jaimie
Shaman & Stella

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, carolyn arnold
<celebrationcookies@...> wrote:
>
> I just tallked with my friend who raises gsd in Minnesota. I have
been telling her about my raising my gsd on raw. She said (from one
who lives on an acreage) that once dogs get the taste of blood the
chickens on the acreage are history. What do you say about dogs
being fed raw then attacking other animals because they have then
the taste of blood??? Thanks, Carolyn
>

Messages in this topic (18)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Advice re: softest bones?
Posted by: "Sam" smmastai@yahoo.com smmastai
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 1:33 pm ((PDT))

Thanks very much Chris. I won't be buying those bones from the pet store ever again,
shudder. I agree that they're the problem. Good to hear that all the other animals you
mentioned should be safe. And I will add meat to a ribs only meal, that's good to know.
Appreciate your advice, this site continues to be a great resource for me. I've been doing
raw now since my pup was 3 months old and I can't believe how much I've learned over the
past 7 months...I went from ki**le to BARF and now I think I'm getting the hang of the prey
model. Thanks again to everyone on the site for their continued dedication to educating
people on how to feed raw.

Sam

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
> Samantha Morris <smmastai@> wrote:
> also tried lamb ribs this
> > weekend. I know the ribs contain a fair amount of
> > bone so I will try to get a meatier piece of the
> > animal next time.
> *****
> Just as one can include bony parts like chicken and turkey backs in a
> menu that is generous with its meat, lamb ribs can also be fed even
> though by themselves they are pretty bony. It's only if/when these
> bony body parts hijack the menu that they need to be restrained.
>
> So if feeding lamb ribs gives your dog a rip and tear opportunity (or
> at least the chance to puzzle out an approach), feed them. Adding
> meat to the meal is a fine way of defusing what might be--for the dog-
> -a too bony meal.
>
>
> > My question re. poultry legs was are they hard on the
> > teeth since they are weight bearing bones?
> *****
> No. Not unless you are feeding home grown birds that have been
> running around for some years. Commercial chickens die young.
>
>
> I have however fed buffalo necks and beef
> > necks which I bought frozen from a pet store that
> > carries raw.
> *****
> My vote goes unequivocally to those nasty bones the pet store sold
> you. A bone doesn't have to be edible to be dangerous. Please
> reconsider rec bones. Chicken legs are not the issue here.
>
> You should be able to feed chicken bones, most turkey bones, most
> lamb and goat bones, most pork bones, fish bones, some venison bones,
> rabbit bones, quail bones, duck bones, squirrel bones the bones of
> other small prey animals.
>
> Just stay away from bones from earthshakingly heavy critters. No
> bison, no beef, no horse, no elephant. Meat: fine. Bones: not fine.
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Shots N Vaccines
Posted by: "Val Kilmer" DPM333@aol.com dferris23
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 1:33 pm ((PDT))

I have a 15 week old Bull Terrier pup that's ben on RAW from week 6 &
hes doing wonderfull. He eats anything i put infront of him & he loves
every bit of it.
My question to the group is my Vet has ben giving him shots every 3
weeks. We were just in for our 15 week shots & made a appointment for
out 18 week shots.
#1 are all these shots necessary? If not, what ones can i
eliminate from giving him.
#2 he gave me heartworm pills (u know the ones u put the sticker on
the calander & u give him once a month) Are theses necessary?
Thanks, Derek @ Chicago

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: Shots N Vaccines
Posted by: "Michelle LaFay" pawsitivelycaring@gmail.com mblafay
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 2:12 pm ((PDT))

+++++Mod note: please take all discussion regarding this to the lists mentioned below or to raw chat +++++++++++++

http://www.truthaboutvaccines.net
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/TruthAboutVaccines/

#1 no - all of them
#2 no

On 7/2/07, Val Kilmer <DPM333@aol.com> wrote:
>
> I have a 15 week old Bull Terrier pup that's ben on RAW from week 6 & hes
> doing wonderfull. He eats anything i put infront of him & he loves every
> bit of it.
> My question to the group is my Vet has ben giving him shots every 3
> weeks. We were just in for our 15 week shots & made a appointment for out
> 18 week shots.
> #1 are all these shots necessary? If not, what ones can i eliminate
> from giving him.
> #2 he gave me heartworm pills (u know the ones u put the sticker on the
> calander & u give him once a month) Are theses necessary?
> Thanks, Derek @ Chicago
>
>

--
Michelle LaFay
Pawsitively Caring Pet Sitting
http://www.pawsitivelycaring.com
pawsitivelycaring@gmail.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: Beef Heart
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 1:33 pm ((PDT))

My GSDS do great on heart; even if I haven't fed it for awhile, the stools
are not as bad as a liver only meal. And I feed heart as a meal too.
--
Tina Berry
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (23)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5. pork heads - keep how long ? Smash ? Elk heads ?
Posted by: "Lisa S." acbrio@shaw.ca trzazz
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 1:33 pm ((PDT))

I got my 40 pound dog his first pork head and he LOVES it, but he
doesn't eat a huge amount off of it each time. How long should I keep
it before I should toss it ? I have been keeping it outside only as
long as he's eating it, then I put it back into the fridge overnight.
This is the fifth day now since I first thawed it out. I gave it to
him 3 times so far. The first time, he chewed at the back of it for
45 minutes. The second time, he didn't want any (I left it outside
for only 10 minutes). The third time (last night), he chewed
enthusiastically at it for almost 2 hours. He has still only gotten
the back of the head eaten and most of the lower jaw, with the lower
jaw bone mostly still there. I don't know if he will be able to get
through the skull at all. The head is about 12 " from snout to the
back of the ears. It weighs about 15 pounds.

Would it be possible to smash the skull with my sledgehammer so he
can get to the brain ? Should I try that ? If so, from the top,
bottom, side ? (ew)
How long should I keep a pork head in the fridge before considering
throwing it out ? It doesn't smell, or anything.

I wonder how elk heads would be ?

The funniest part with the pork heads is that he gets really mad at
the flies. He curls his lip, growls and snaps at them. I don't think
flies understand dog language ;-) . Looking at him chewing on the
head was a bit weird, but he looked very happy with it, eyes closing
while chewing, as if he was in heaven. He allowed me to take it away
from him any time I wanted to. I simply walked over and "claimed" it,
like Cesar Milan does, then I picked it up. No problem. No growling
at me.

I guess I should introduce myself, too :).
I have a 40 pound, 2 year old Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever. He
has been raw fed all of his life, including by the breeder. Since a
raw buying group was recently formed in my city, I have been trying
some new things. Next order, I'm including lamb kidney, pork spleen,
veal sweetbreads (pancreas and thymus gland) and ground wild herring.
He already eats pork tongue, pork neck bones, salmon chunks, whole
smelts and sardines, tripe (loves it), chicken backs & necks, turkey
necks, beef organ mix, beef heart, elk tongue & liver, raw eggs with
shell, oils (cold water fish oil, salmon oil, Arctic Vigor, cod liver
oil).

Oddly, he does not like chicken organs or turkey liver. He will eat
the chicken organs, though, if I grind them up and mix them with
tripe.

Thanks,

- Lisa S.
and Brio
http://community.webshots.com/user/acbrio

Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: Feeding 6 month old pups
Posted by: "Kay" k12lytle@flash.net kay12327
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 1:33 pm ((PDT))

You are doing great!
>
> Andrea
>

Thanks!

Kay

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7. whole furry rabbit & quail with feathers on
Posted by: "Lisa S." acbrio@shaw.ca trzazz
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 1:33 pm ((PDT))

I have been promised a whole furry rabbit and a quail or two with
feathers on them. Any tips on how to introduce those to my dog would
be appreciated. Should I leave the feathers on ? Or pluck the first
one ? He hasn't had anything whole before. He is a 40 pound Nova
Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever, raw fed all his life. He is not a
gulper.

He loves his latest (a pork head), so I'm guessing that something
large-ish is not a problem.

- Lisa S.
and Brio
http://community.webshots.com/user/acbrio

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Identifying edible bones versus "tooth-wreckers"
Posted by: "K Carolyn Ramamurti" lilith23360@yahoo.com lilith23360
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 1:34 pm ((PDT))

OK, I am reading old posts and just finished the "chipped tooth" exchange (Ania, I am so sorry!) At any rate, I hope to learn something from that situation. Any and all bones from chicken, game hen, turkey, duck, and any other birds are o.k. to feed, right? And fish bones? But NOT weight-bearing bones from cows or sheep? Shoulders, ribs and anything else other than large leg bones from cows, sheep or pigs are fine, right?

Thanks!

Carolyn in Seattle, devoted to raw-feeding her carnivores but still vegetarian herself

---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: Identifying edible bones versus "tooth-wreckers"
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 3:01 pm ((PDT))

Hi Carolyn,

Depends on the size of the dog and how s/he eats. In general, all
dogs should avoid the leg bones of cows, bison/buffalo. My dog has 2
chipped teeth from these before I knew better. I think I've heard
that some dogs can eat beef ribs--my 20 lb. Boston can't (I
occasionally give them but take the bones away after he's cleaned
them off). Any poultry, rabbit, or fish is fine/edible for all
dogs. Pork, lamb, and goat will depend on the dog. Mine eats the
ribs, necks, and parts of the legs. Bigger dogs can probably eat
more or all of the legs of these animals.

Laurie
(vegetarian in Seattle too :-) )

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, K Carolyn Ramamurti
<lilith23360@...> wrote:
Any and all bones from chicken, game hen, turkey, duck, and any
other birds are o.k. to feed, right? And fish bones? But NOT weight-
bearing bones from cows or sheep? Shoulders, ribs and anything else
other than large leg bones from cows, sheep or pigs are fine, right?

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

8c. Re: Identifying edible bones versus "tooth-wreckers"
Posted by: "Karen Swanay" luvbullbreeds@gmail.com kswanay1111
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 3:21 pm ((PDT))

Hi Carolyn,
>

It does really depend on the dog and the style of chewing. I just had my
mini dach have a molar pulled ($388.77) because of a slab fracture. He was
eating a pork chop bone. He has no issues with rib bones (cow or pig)
because he chews them differently. This is one of those things you'll have
to learn by watching your dog and know that even when you are careful,
accidents can still happen. (As they do with kibble feeding too.)

Good luck!
Karen

>
>

--
"Family isn't about whose blood you have. It's about who you care about."

LOI 1/26/07
PA 3/22/07

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9. Michigan Suppliers
Posted by: "Compassion for Greyhounds" gencfg@gmail.com g_manders
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 2:11 pm ((PDT))

Hi! I'm currently feeding 6 greyhounds a raw diet. I'm looking for suppliers
in the West Michigan or Kalamazoo area. I'm trying to expand our resource
list.

Thanks!

Gen & 6 happy greyhounds

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. Re: Veal breast
Posted by: "metra_co" metraco@hotmail.com metra_co
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 2:12 pm ((PDT))

> Jagger has finally had a solid poop. Gave him some veal breast this
> am and he has watery poop. I'm guessing this happens whenever you
> intoduce something new. Do I continue to give it to him in hopes that
> he will adjust? Thanks again and sorry for all the posts, Kathy
>

I started Rusty on raw with veal breasts, and I remember they were
really fatty and I was trimming out HUGE chunks of fat out of it
(between the meat and bone, especially). Now I can feed them without
trimming, unless it's an especially fatty piece and I'll trim it a
little. I was surprised because I assumed that veal would be lean, but
it's a fatty cut, which can lead to loose stools if your dog isn't used
to it. Metra

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. Feeding Raw
Posted by: "truthseeker448" truthseeker448@yahoo.com truthseeker448
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 2:53 pm ((PDT))

Hello! I am new to this and I am obviously somewhat ignorant as to how
to navigate certain threads I want to read on this group site. Anyway,
I am coming around to agreeing with feeding raw as my labs ear
infections and other areas are finally clearing up, this has been a long
going chronic thing we've been dealing with. I am trying to gather
information on the internet and sift thru what is true to what is false
or bad advice..... some say, don't feed veggies and some say do. Don't
feed flax oil, you don't need to supplement....ect... My case is kind
of complicated as my lab has had a "tie back" procedure for laryngeal
paralysis, which means she has a permanent opening in her throat. I am
a little leary of giving her bones for this reason and also because I
gave her a raw lamb bone one time and she developed a bad
stomach/intestinal (??) infection. I know someone who has a rotty and
all he feeds him is chicken breasts. Need help discerning what is good
to feed. My yellow lab is only 50 pounds.

-Carol

Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12. PROBLEMS WITH GROUND EGGSHELLS, ANYONE?
Posted by: "alliecaracleo" alliecaracleo@yahoo.com alliecaracleo
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 2:53 pm ((PDT))

Just fed first serving of finely ground eggshells with usual food and
11y Tabby threw up. B'bs wont eat bone so supplementing. Other cat did
ok. Sensitivity for some cats to eggshells?

Is crushing bone finely and mixing into food better solution? Purer
form of calcium, correct?

Have a good one
Denise
(Allison,Caramia and Ms Cleo)

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13. Questioning and need reassurance
Posted by: "woofwoofgrrl" cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com woofwoofgrrl
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 3:01 pm ((PDT))

Since Courtney (12yo BC) has come down with issues with her kidneys,
I've been questioning my switch to raw. I know it feels right, and the
other two, younger, dogs are doing quite well. However, she had blood
work done in April, coincidentally right before the switch, and there
were no kidney indicators at that time. So I'm concerned that switching
her to raw was the wrong thing to do! And of course, my parents are
blaming her problems on the diet too. The vet hasn't actually said that
she thinks it's the diet and so far they have been quite willing to work
with me, but there is always that nagging question in my own mind.
Is the timing just coincidental? Did the diet exacerbate a latent
problem? <sigh> I need reassurance and data. :(

Thanks!
Christine

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

14a. Re: expiration dates
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 3:02 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jessie" <O_snobunnie_O@...>
wrote:
>
> So now that I've realized where to find the sale priced meats I'll
> be keeping an eye out, but just wanted to know if there's anything
> special I need to do?

Jessie,

Feed all the out of date meat you can find. Beg friends to give you
their out of date and freezer burned meat from their freezer.
Expiration dates mean nothing to a dog. They have terrific
digestive systems that can handle meat that would kill a gown
man. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

14b. Re: expiration dates
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 5:19 pm ((PDT))

"Jessie" <O_snobunnie_O@...> wrote:
>
> how do you guys feel about using meat close to, on or after its
> expiration date?
>
> I already plan to feed what I bought and not worry about it, but I
> don't plan on using only old meat... just didn't know if anyone
> followed any guidelines on the dates?
*****
Our local buying group rents out a locker corner from a meat
wholesaler; a few weeks ago the owner mentioned he had expired meat
back from his store for .50/lb, was I interested? WAS I INTERESTED?
He had boxes of beef and fish and yes, there was a feeding frenzy.
Scoring expired meat is a time honored practice for raw feeders.

The words "special today" are near and dear to my heart and
pocketbook. This approach to stocking up works really well after big
turkey holidays (I found freerange turkeys for .29/lb!) and after big
BBQ holidays as well. I think many of us have learned to cruise the
meat department early in the morning or before closing or on blow-out
days, looking for the deals.

> So now that I've realized where to find the sale priced meats I'll
> be keeping an eye out, but just wanted to know if there's anything
> special I need to do?
*****
For feeding your dogs? Just carry a big enough basket!

> I plan on either feeding it that day or freezing it and feeding it
> immediately (rather than letting it sit in the fridge for a few
days
> like I usually do if I don't use the entire bag at once).
*****
I don't give these meats any particular care; if I were feeding them
to me I'd be treating them as you suggest, but for my dogs, I really
do not worry. A few years ago I got some expired lamb legs
for .99/lb; great price, seriously--stunningly--whiffy. I rinsed off
the legs, fed them, never saw ANYTHING bad come of the meals. Only
happy happy dogs.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

15. super gassy doggy
Posted by: "LaUrA" laurasue17@hotmail.com angel_2_u_23
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 3:02 pm ((PDT))

Snoopy has always been gassy but it seems to have gotten worse since raw feeding. We have been feeding all parts of chicken, beef and pork. They eat once a day. Yet Snoopy continues to have room clearing gas. It is nasty. Any suggestions?

Laura
Proud Mommy to Miss Samantha (9 years old going on 16! LOL!!) and step mom to Heather -17, Nikki - 14 and Michelle - 8 - the most beautiful girls in the world!!!!!
Mom to furbabies: Snoopy (male - neutered - 9 month old - pit mix - 60lbs.) and Zoey (super smart hearing impaired female - spayed - 5 month old - pit mix - approx. 35lbs.)

The American Pitbull Terrier...those who know them can't explain...those who don't, can't understand.

If you don't stand behind our troops, you can feel free to stand in IN FRONT of them.

http://www.myspace.com/dreaming_fairy_23
http://groups.myspace.com/dogloversinfayetteville

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

16. Bitten while taking a bone away
Posted by: "stacey7881" staceydippong@gmail.com stacey7881
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 3:21 pm ((PDT))

Hi everyone,

I have a 4 month old Shih Tzu puppy and I have been feeding her raw for
about a month now - she loves it and is doing great. Most of the time
she gets raw chicken with the bones.

She was eating part of a chicken thigh with the bone attached today,
and was having a really hard time crunching the bone - it was actually
caught (wedged on) on her upper teeth. I tried to get it out of her
mouth and she bite my thumb through the nail and well into my thumb
below...very unexpected and quite painful.

My question is - is this something that I should be worried about? I
don't think it was intentional at all but it makes me nervous in the
future - should I start crushing her bones for her?

Thanks,

Stacey

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

17a. Re: Shots & vaccines
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 3:23 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Val Kilmer" <DPM333@...> wrote:
>
> What shots should he still need & when can i stop giving him
> shots if
> at all, & does he need these heartworm pills?

Forget the supplements, oils (except maybe salmon oil), and vitamins.

Forget any more vaccinations. Your dog is immune. I hope he hasn't
had a rabies shot yet. If he hasn't, put it off until at least 6
months of age or older.

I give the heartworm pills every 45 days during mosquito season
beginning 45 days after mosquitoes appear.

Do some research on both vaccinations and heartworm "prevenative"
before you give any more of either.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

18a. Re: Howdy!
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 3:54 pm ((PDT))

"sazkeeper" <sazkeeper@...> wrote:
> Well, I guess I need to explain myself a little better - so I don't
> get flamed uneccesarily. I've only been feeding raw for a little
> UNDER a week - and all my research said to start with one type of
> food at a time.
*****
True. It's recommended but not madatory. Explaining oneself
adequately the first time is often the best way to avoid confusion.

I
> have been going through my freezer to see what I already have and
> have fed breast meat as well - just backs as a staple.
*****
There is nothing about chicken backs to recommend them as a staple
over meatier chicken parts. They are cheap body parts and while this
gives them a ertain panache they aren't necessarily more appropriate
for a nine week old pup than a leg, say. If you had read more
perhaps, you might have seen that rib-in (and maybe skin off) chicken
breasts are frequently recommended as starter meals.

> > not too sure if I will switch Bullet, my cat, as he
> > > is 17 yrs old and doesn't have too many teeth left. Any advice
> in
> > > that area?
> > *****
> > I suggest you subscribe to RawCat, where cats--as is their wont--
> > reign supreme.
>
> If I get a better reception there, maybe I will.
*****
I don't know what sort of reception you expected so it's hard to know
how you'll feel on RawCat. One can only try. A 17 year old cat with
few remaining teeth has special needs for at least three reasons--
species, age and dental hygiene. RawCat is a huge species specific
resource of been-there, done-that. You may certainly discuss his
issues here but I promise you, he will get more attention on RawCat.
It is of course your choice.

> Considering I got the information on COOKED liver as training
treats
> from this group's files that it wouldn't be out of line to ask for
> more details... guess I was wrong.
*****
Perhaps the information is in the files to circumvent the need to
discuss the topic further on this list. However, you would have had
no way of knowing this, so don't take offense for being told.
RawChat was started specifically to provide room for the multitude of
topics that are relevant and perhaps even vital to rawfeeders but are
not about feeding raw food.

> If I had known that sarcasm and beratement were the way I was going
> to be greeted as a new raw feeder -
*****
What? Because you are feeding bony parts and don't provide
mitigating information you feed berated? I suspect that, yes, you
have blown something out of proportion.

I don't recall having written anything particularly sarcastic or
punitive so I am not at all sure I understand why your knickers are
so in a twist.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

19a. Re: different cuts of ribs - and lamb/goat cuts
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 4:30 pm ((PDT))

"Chrissy" <hylesrayburn@...> wrote:
>
> I know this is an out there question but I keep seeing people
buying or slaughtering Sheep/Goat at really small dressed weight. The
last lambs I had butchered were very small and both of them were well
over 70lbs. The hot weight on a full grown Ram is about 250# and a
Ewe is about 175#.
*****
I have no idea what a lamb dresses out to but I imagine it depends on
the age and breed. I've never dressed out a lamb, nor have I even
ordered one. I was referring to goat and specifically goats that are
processed in either NW or Australia for the US market. Without head,
tail, offal, feet or hair the goats make case weight as described.

If I were to slaughter a lamb or goat I would do it to my needs and
almost certainly the end weight would be far different than what my
meat wholesaler offers! In fact, if I were to process my own
livestock I probably wouldn't even know (or worry about) live or
hanging weight, I'd just do it. FWIW, I doubt the kids I've fed to
my dogs were not even ten pounds, whole.

If you can raise some sheep for your dogs, my goodness you should! No
question that you'll get more bang (or dog food) for your dollar that
way.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (15)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

20a. Re: sources?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 4:54 pm ((PDT))

"antarpremal" <antarpremal@...> wrote:
>I would love to get some wild meat, rabbit, elk,
> deer.....not easy to come by in the suburbs.
*****
Have you posted your wish list to the CarnivoreFeed-Supplier list?
It's a sister list opened specifically to help people link up with
suppliers who have want rawfeeders want.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

21a. Re: Need Help. PLEASE
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 5:41 pm ((PDT))

"merril Woolf" <merril@...> wrote:
>> Shame you wasted all that good food. :-(( I'm going to be
thinking about that all day now.
*****
My dogs agree.
If one horks something up and won't re-eat it (a rarity indeed) the
others clamor for a shot at the stuff. Except for mackerel. Mackerel
gets horked up, it gets ignored.

However, in all fairness to out-of-sorts dogs, there are times when
vomiting indicates ill health and it behooves us as responsible dog
owners to know what's ill health and what's over-indulgence or gluttony.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------