[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11754

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Shots N Vaccines
From: ginny wilken

2a. ADMIN/Re: Shots N Vaccines
From: costrowski75

3a. Re: Questioning and need reassurance
From: Casey Post
3b. Re: Questioning and need reassurance
From: woofwoofgrrl
3c. Re: Questioning and need reassurance
From: Casey Post
3d. Re: Questioning and need reassurance
From: J

4a. Re: PROBLEMS WITH GROUND EGGSHELLS, ANYONE?
From: Casey Post

5a. So far so good, but have a couple of questions
From: Linda Edgington
5b. Re: So far so good, but have a couple of questions
From: Giselle

6a. Re: Bitten while taking a bone away
From: Danielle O'Connor
6b. Re: Bitten while taking a bone away
From: Giselle
6c. Re: Bitten while taking a bone away
From: Joseph

7a. Re: Ground beef
From: geraldinebutterfield

8a. GSD first time raw feeding
From: Star
8b. Re: GSD first time raw feeding
From: Giselle
8c. Re: GSD first time raw feeding
From: Star

9. Buying a full cow!
From: borodeauxs

10a. Re: expiration dates
From: chele519
10b. Re: expiration dates
From: pelirojita
10c. Re: expiration dates
From: costrowski75

11a. Re: Veal breast
From: Bearhair

12a. Re: Identifying edible bones versus "tooth-wreckers"
From: wenigj

13a. Re: WOW thanks for all the great help...
From: Catherine

14. Eggs gave bad gas..
From: blueberry5297

15. Pigs Feet left overs?
From: mz_boomer2

Messages
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1a. Re: Shots N Vaccines
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 5:42 pm ((PDT))

On Jul 2, 2007, at 11:44 AM, Val Kilmer wrote:

> I have a 15 week old Bull Terrier pup that's ben on RAW from week 6 &
> hes doing wonderfull. He eats anything i put infront of him & he
> loves
> every bit of it.
> My question to the group is my Vet has ben giving him shots
> every 3
> weeks. We were just in for our 15 week shots & made a appointment for
> out 18 week shots.
> #1 are all these shots necessary? If not, what ones can i
> eliminate from giving him.
> #2 he gave me heartworm pills (u know the ones u put the
> sticker on
> the calander & u give him once a month) Are theses necessary?
> Thanks, Derek @ Chicago

She's right, Val; none of any of them. And if you'll join us at
RawChat we can tell you why and get you some good info.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. ADMIN/Re: Shots N Vaccines
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 5:47 pm ((PDT))

Good questions but they should be resubmitted to RawChat. The
rawfeeding list is for feeding raw and vaccines, although volatile
issues indeed in natural rearing, are not about feeding raw. Please
post all vaccine discussion to RawChat.
Thanks.
Chris O
Mod Team

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: Questioning and need reassurance
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 5:54 pm ((PDT))

> Since Courtney (12yo BC) has come down with issues with her kidneys,
> I've been questioning my switch to raw.

Christine,

Forgive me...it's a busy list and I cannot recall - what exactly is the
diagnosis, here?

>However, she had blood
> work done in April, coincidentally right before the switch, and there
> were no kidney indicators at that time. So I'm concerned that switching
> her to raw was the wrong thing to do!

Raw is absolutely the very best thing for the carnivore's kidneys
(particularly if their function is compromised), so whatever is going on
with your girl, staying with a commercial diet would not have been a good
thing.

>> Is the timing just coincidental? Did the diet exacerbate a latent
> problem? <sigh> I need reassurance and data.

Help us help you. What is her diagnosis? What are you feeding her? What
were you feeding her before the switch?

Casey

Messages in this topic (5)
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3b. Re: Questioning and need reassurance
Posted by: "woofwoofgrrl" cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com woofwoofgrrl
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 6:47 pm ((PDT))

Casey Post wrote:
>
>> Since Courtney (12yo BC) has come down with issues with her kidneys,
>> I've been questioning my switch to raw.
>
> Christine,
>
> Forgive me...it's a busy list and I cannot recall - what exactly is the
> diagnosis, here?

Busy list? Yeah maybe a bit! :) This all started a little over a week
ago when Courtney vomited and then refused to eat. She acted like she
was way out of sorts, so I took her to the vet the next day. Her
physical exam was fine, but her blood test revealed a high BUN and high
creatinine and high white blood cells and high phosphorus. Her
urinalysis showed that she's not concentrating her urine and there was
protein in it, with no signs of infection in the urine. So the
current diagnosis is kidney failure and not infection.

>> However, she had blood
>> work done in April, coincidentally right before the switch, and there
>> were no kidney indicators at that time. So I'm concerned that switching
>> her to raw was the wrong thing to do!
>
> Raw is absolutely the very best thing for the carnivore's kidneys
> (particularly if their function is compromised), so whatever is going on
> with your girl, staying with a commercial diet would not have been a good
> thing.
>
That's what I want to believe, but I'm having trouble now.

>
>
>>> Is the timing just coincidental? Did the diet exacerbate a latent
>> problem? <sigh> I need reassurance and data.
>
> Help us help you. What is her diagnosis? What are you feeding her? What
> were you feeding her before the switch?

The current diagnosis is kidney failure. There are more tests in the
works so that may change. Before she started showing signs of illness
we were in the process of working up to various protein sources - she
had successfully had chicken, turkey (which she loved), beef and pork.
She would typically get mostly meaty meat and less bone than the other
two, but she did get bone and has had some organs. She was getting about
2% of her body weight a day. We are probably a month to 6 weeks into
raw feeding. The younger dogs have had pretty much the same thing, but
with a little more bone than her, their percentages are 3% and 4% of
their body weights since they are more active and are whippets with a
higher metabolism.

Right now, since I've gotten her to the point where she wants to eat -
lots of tummy drugs involved in this - she's had mostly raw chicken
breast and some chuck roast and some raw egg. I'm still feeling my way
through the "reduce the phosphorus" part. I've also start supplementing
with COQ10, tums to balance out the phosphorus in each meal, and fish
oil. Then there are all the meds they have her on...

Before I switched to raw, she was on a 'high quality' kibble. When we
first got her 12 years ago we started with Pedigree and then I switched
to Iams and then I learned more about dog food and started being even
choosier. I would periodically swap foods just to keep it interesting -
Chicken Soup for the Dog Lovers Soul, Wellness, Merrick, Blue Buffalo...
She was on Blue Buffalo right before the switch to raw. So she wasn't
affected by the recall. Frightningly, Zinger one of my whippets, was on
Royal Canine before the switch to raw and some of their formulas were
involved in the recall! But he seems fine.

So that's the saga so far... any help or calming would would be great!

Thanks!
Christine

Messages in this topic (5)
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3c. Re: Questioning and need reassurance
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 8:09 pm ((PDT))

> She acted like she
> was way out of sorts, so I took her to the vet the next day. Her
> physical exam was fine, but her blood test revealed a high BUN and high
> creatinine and high white blood cells and high phosphorus. Her
> urinalysis showed that she's not concentrating her urine and there was
> protein in it, with no signs of infection in the urine. So the
> current diagnosis is kidney failure and not infection.

Well, Carrie is better at the hard medical stuff than I. At this dog's age,
there are a few possibilities and sure, renal failure is one of them. I'm
assuming there are no "prime suspects" involved like TBD, flea/tick meds,
vaccines, etc. given to her recently?

>
>>> However, she had blood
>>> work done in April, coincidentally right before the switch, and there
>>> were no kidney indicators at that time. So I'm concerned that switching
>>> her to raw was the wrong thing to do!

The crap deal is that the kidney indicators in standard blood work don't
show up until you've got about 75% kidney function lost, so if she was at
50% then, there may have been no hint of it at that time. Not saying that
this is what happened, just saying it's possible.

>> Raw is absolutely the very best thing for the carnivore's kidneys
>> (particularly if their function is compromised), so whatever is going on
>> with your girl, staying with a commercial diet would not have been a good
>> thing.
>>
> That's what I want to believe, but I'm having trouble now.

Hey, you do what you have to do for your emotional well-being. But you need
to know that YOU DID NOT CAUSE THIS. The older a dog gets, the more likely
something medical is going to come up, it's just statistically the way it
is. Does that suck? You bet it does. And I know that the timing really
has you wondering if the switch to raw was what did it and I think that's a
very normal response on your part. After all, you had A, you did B, and now
you've got C, so it's not unreasonable to figure that C is the result of B.

EXCEPT that feeding a carnivore a prey model diet doesn't cause renal
failure.

Honest. I've lost animals to renal failure, so I know how much that sucks
and if I had even a hint of doubt that I was currently risking the renal
health of my animals by feeding raw, I wouldn't do it.

> The current diagnosis is kidney failure. There are more tests in the
> works so that may change.

Good. More testing is good. Me, I'm a glutton for data. I know that
testing has limitations, but I like to know all I can know, anyway. Gives
me a sense of control over an uncontrollable situation, I guess.

> Right now, since I've gotten her to the point where she wants to eat -
> lots of tummy drugs involved in this - she's had mostly raw chicken
> breast and some chuck roast and some raw egg. I'm still feeling my way
> through the "reduce the phosphorus" part. I've also start supplementing
> with COQ10, tums to balance out the phosphorus in each meal, and fish
> oil. Then there are all the meds they have her on...

And fluids - is she on any fluids?

>I would periodically swap foods just to keep it interesting -
> Chicken Soup for the Dog Lovers Soul, Wellness, Merrick, Blue Buffalo...
> She was on Blue Buffalo right before the switch to raw. So she wasn't
> affected by the recall.

You'd be surprised how many foods weren't on the official recall that folks
reported as affecting their animals...but that's another story.

> So that's the saga so far... any help or calming would would be great!

Help - are you having problems, maybe getting her to eat? Have you tried
green tripe for her on her "off" days?

As for calming, I'm going to say it again so you know I mean it ... This is
NOT your fault. You did not do this to her by changing her diet. What you
did was saw a problem when she felt ill and acted on it fast. You are
learning and coping and handling a tough situation. You should congratulate
yourself on what you've done and what you continue to do day after day.
You're there for your dog. No regrets.

Casey

Messages in this topic (5)
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3d. Re: Questioning and need reassurance
Posted by: "J" jocelyn7777@hotmail.com croint7777
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 8:48 pm ((PDT))

This all started a little over a week
> ago when Courtney vomited and then refused to eat. She acted like
she
> was way out of sorts, so I took her to the vet the next day. Her
> physical exam was fine, but her blood test revealed a high BUN and
high
> creatinine and high white blood cells and high phosphorus. Her
> urinalysis showed that she's not concentrating her urine and there
was
> protein in it, with no signs of infection in the urine. So the
> current diagnosis is kidney failure and not infection.

I remember posting this before, but I think I forgot to sign my mail,
so it might not have made it through....Here are a few articles done by
a diagnostic testing center...

http://www.antechdiagnostics.com/clients/antechnews/2006/nov06_01.htm

http://www.antechdiagnostics.com/clients/antechnews/2003/jun03_02.htm

Hope this helps...

And, I don't know if your dog had eaten before the tests, but I've
heard you should fast your dogs before having one of these tests
done... (you said the dog wasn't eating, and was acting out of sorts,
but you don't say how long the dog went without eating, or how she was
acting out of sorts?) I had something similar happen with one of my
dogs, except he was urinating frequently (even in the house...) I took
him to the vet, and his levels came back a little off, and his urine
was very dilute (not concentrated)... with no signs of infection. The
vet ran blood tests because she was worried he had diabetes insipidus.
She gave us some antibiotics just in case... Well, after his first 2
doses of antibiotics, he didn't have anymore problems. I think he had
an infection (and the increased thirst, extra drinking, and the water
in his raw food- led to the dilute urine.... and it could be he was
doing it on purpose to keep the urine from burning if it was an
infection.) His levels came back fine (within the parameters of raw
fed dogs - I use a raw friendly vet.) Since then- he has been fine
with no problems.

Right now, I'd make sure your vet re-runs the tests, that the dog has
been fasting for 12 hours before the test... and, that the vets are
made aware of the differences in the test results for dogs that are raw
fed- per the articles above.

Good luck.

Jocelyn

Messages in this topic (5)
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4a. Re: PROBLEMS WITH GROUND EGGSHELLS, ANYONE?
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 5:56 pm ((PDT))

> Just fed first serving of finely ground eggshells with usual food and
> 11y Tabby threw up. B'bs wont eat bone so supplementing. Other cat did
> ok. Sensitivity for some cats to eggshells?

How finely ground? Like powder or little bits?

>
> Is crushing bone finely and mixing into food better solution? Purer
> form of calcium, correct?

"Purity" is not really the issue...whole bone is "the real thing" and egg
shell powder is a substitute, so it's inferior by definition. You may want
to try mashing bones really well and then mashing less and less over time -
not only will that get calcium and other minerals into them, but also will
help transition to whole, edible bones.

Some cats are tough...believe me, I know!

Casey

Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. So far so good, but have a couple of questions
Posted by: "Linda Edgington" lindagail849@yahoo.com lindagail849
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 6:02 pm ((PDT))

We made it thru the week end, I think it was more scary on my part then anything. Gizzy is doing well with the bigger cuts of meat, I found one thing that has to change tho. He was chewing much better this morning but I think I will have to feed him outside. I feed both the cat Sassy and dog at the same time. Sassy on the washer and Giz on th floor. Sassy looks at her's and decides she wants Gizzy's first. That is what made him eat faster this noon, and he couldn't get it down so up chucked it. Now my biggest fear is up chucking and dirreah (sp). I have a weak stomach and this is hard for me.But it came up a big chunck and he chewed it up, So far I am feeding chicken breast's, but I cut up a cornish hen yesterday. Messed it up pretty bad, not much for back that isn't attached to something else. My question is, can I give Giz like a leg quarter tonite? I haven't really been measuring, but 3 oz doesn't seem like much, and I'm not for sure how much he ate at noon.
Do I take the skin off? Will he eat more than he should? That is a dumb question, isn't it. And I don't think I am feeding Sass enough. But I will get into raw cat for that. Also, Giz hasn't had a poop today. Do I need to be worried?

Alos I wanted to say that I didn't think anyone was scarcastic or berating here. I am new to and I appreciate everything you guys have done for me, cause it it hadn't been for you I would have started "this journey".

Linda

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: So far so good, but have a couple of questions
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 7:05 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Linda!
Ah, refresh our memory; what size and age is Giz?
And I'm a little confused, you are feeding only cornish hen parts to
both the dog and cat, or are feeding the cornish hen parts to the cat
and the chicken parts to the dog?
You can feed the cat first, then the dog in the usual area, or vice
versa. Just keep one in the feeding area at a time, and block the
other out. Or, you could feed the cat in a crate or ex-pen and the dog
free, or vice versa.
Dogs *can* eat too much, and gain too much weight. I'd recommend you
keep an eye on her 'waist' and tummy 'tuck up', and feel her ribs and
back and hip bones regularly. Too fluffy? Cut back. Too lean? feed more.
When your dog horks food up, you can just let her eat it again. No
clean up on your part.
The only reason to trim skin or fat from meat is if the dog is having
problems with diarrhea or vomiting. You gradually trim less and less
until they can tolerate it as is.
Since the raw diet is entirely appropriate and extremely digestible,
your dog will have greatly reduced poop volume. She will poop less,
and may even skip days between eliminations. NP.
Thanks for the kind words. We do have our own unique ways of
expressing ourselves.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> We made it thru the week end, I think it was more scary on my part
then anything. Gizzy is doing well with the bigger cuts of meat, I
found one thing that has to change tho. He was chewing much better
this morning but I think I will have to feed him outside. I feed both
the cat Sassy and dog at the same time. Sassy on the washer and Giz
on the floor. Sassy looks at hers and decides she wants Gizzy's
first. That is what made him eat faster this noon, and he couldn't
get it down so up chucked it. Now my biggest fear is up chucking and
diarrhea (sp). I have a weak stomach and this is hard for me.But it
came up a big chunk and he chewed it up, So far I am feeding chicken
breast's, but I cut up a cornish hen yesterday. Messed it up pretty
bad, not much for back that isn't attached to something else. My
question is, can I give Giz like a leg quarter tonite? I haven't
really been measuring, but 3 oz doesn't seem like much, and I'm not
for sure how much he ate at noon.
> Do I take the skin off? Will he eat more than he should? That is
a dumb question, isn't it. And I don't think I am feeding Sass
enough. But I will get into raw cat for that. Also, Giz hasn't had a
poop today. Do I need to be worried?
>
> Also I wanted to say that I didn't think anyone was sarcastic or
berating here. I am new to and I appreciate everything you guys have
done for me, cause it it hadn't been for you I would have started
"this journey".
>
> Linda

Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Re: Bitten while taking a bone away
Posted by: "Danielle O'Connor" zar48690@yahoo.com zar48690
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 6:02 pm ((PDT))

hmmm thats a good question..i would crush her bone,,but i dont think she ment to bite u im sure she was trying to get it out of her mouth 2..danielle o'connor

stacey7881 <staceydippong@gmail.com> wrote: Hi everyone,

I have a 4 month old Shih Tzu puppy and I have been feeding her raw for
about a month now - she loves it and is doing great. Most of the time
she gets raw chicken with the bones.

She was eating part of a chicken thigh with the bone attached today,
and was having a really hard time crunching the bone - it was actually
caught (wedged on) on her upper teeth. I tried to get it out of her
mouth and she bite my thumb through the nail and well into my thumb
below...very unexpected and quite painful.

My question is - is this something that I should be worried about? I
don't think it was intentional at all but it makes me nervous in the
future - should I start crushing her bones for her?

Thanks,

Stacey

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Messages in this topic (4)
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6b. Re: Bitten while taking a bone away
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 7:12 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Stacey!
Even well trained dogs can bite when they are frightened, like your
pup was when the bone was wedged.
I wouldn't crush her bones. Chances are, you may be "crowding" her a
bit, being new to raw and still nervous. She may be feeling anxious
that you might try to take it from her and be trying to eat too quickly.
Email me off list or post this on raw chat, and I can tell you about
an easy to do training plan to teach her to trade items happily with you.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Hi everyone,
>
> I have a 4 month old Shih Tzu puppy and I have been feeding her raw for
> about a month now - she loves it and is doing great. Most of the time
> she gets raw chicken with the bones.
>
> She was eating part of a chicken thigh with the bone attached today,
> and was having a really hard time crunching the bone - it was actually
> caught (wedged on) on her upper teeth. I tried to get it out of her
> mouth and she bite my thumb through the nail and well into my thumb
> below...very unexpected and quite painful.
>
> My question is - is this something that I should be worried about? I
> don't think it was intentional at all but it makes me nervous in the
> future - should I start crushing her bones for her?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Stacey
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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6c. Re: Bitten while taking a bone away
Posted by: "Joseph" scarfinger68@yahoo.com scarfinger68
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 8:01 pm ((PDT))

Ouch!. Sounds like a nasty..accidental bite considering she may of
been in a bit of distress if the bone was lodge in her teeth.

My dog accidently bit my finger once when i was new at RAW feeding and
I would hold the meat and bone so she could pull the meat off. She
regripped the RAW meat and got my finger a little.

My dog has been trained in bite inhibition and releases with the
command "give" and never growls or seems anxious when i take her food
and examine it.

Thats why I am saying my dog bitting me was an accidentle nipping of my
finger and hopefully... your was too.

Joe Stokes, Toledo

Messages in this topic (4)
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7a. Re: Ground beef
Posted by: "geraldinebutterfield" gbutterflied@comcast.net geraldinebutterfield
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 6:04 pm ((PDT))

I never thought to fill her Kong with meat and freeze it. Great idea.
When roasts are on a great sale I'll have the butcher grind one up for
her.

geraldine
> >
> > >
> > > May I ask, "What is Kong"?
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jeannine
> > >
> >
> Thank you so much, Michelle!
> I may get one for Daisy.
> Jeannine
>

Messages in this topic (15)
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8a. GSD first time raw feeding
Posted by: "Star" akjstarh@yahoo.com akjstarh
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 6:04 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

The Shelties are doing great!!! My brother wants to start feeding the family GSD this way,
he weighs about 120 a huge dog. What would be appropriate size bones for him that is
economical? Turkey necks....???

If someone could take th moment to reply I would really appreciate it, the movers come in
a few days and I am swamped and he doesn't have internet access right now...............

Thank you!
Star

Messages in this topic (3)
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8b. Re: GSD first time raw feeding
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 7:16 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Star!
Don't think bones, think meat with a bone in it.
Half or whole chickens, or turkey quarters would be appropriate for a
120lb dog, unless he is overweight.
Unless and until the dog becomes a careful chewer and experienced raw
eater, I wouldn't feed turkey or chicken neck, unless attached to the
bird.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Hi,
>
> The Shelties are doing great!!! My brother wants to start feeding
the family GSD this way,
> he weighs about 120 a huge dog. What would be appropriate size bones
for him that is
> economical? Turkey necks....???
>
> If someone could take th moment to reply I would really appreciate
it, the movers come in
> a few days and I am swamped and he doesn't have internet access
right now...............
>
> Thank you!
> Star
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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8c. Re: GSD first time raw feeding
Posted by: "Star" akjstarh@yahoo.com akjstarh
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 8:46 pm ((PDT))

***EDITED BY MODERATOR. PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

Thanks Giselle!

I am sorry I dodn't fully clarify...oops....in focus on bones I was thinking choking hazards.
The no neck unless attached things makes much sense. So the quarter turkey or half
chicken would be from a slaughterhouse with all parts attached but defeathered, or would
it be like you see packs of cut up whole chicken with giblets 'inside'. This entire meat thing
confuses me- any my brotehr was also raised vegeterian....

What exactly would he ask the slaughter house for, or the supermarket butcher?

Sorry to be so dense!
Star

Messages in this topic (3)
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9. Buying a full cow!
Posted by: "borodeauxs" Borodeauxs@googlemail.com borodeauxs
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 6:05 pm ((PDT))

Hi all wanting some information regarding cows,
I have found a slaughter house which will sell me a full cow for £80/
$160,..the cow will be chopped up into joints/steaks and what ever
else comes off cows,..I have sat and thought about the amount of meat
and other goodies I could have from this (including big racks of
ribs,heart,bones,stomarh linning/tripe,tounge,organs,)the list just
seems to go on,..I have a large chest freezer so storeage is no
problem,although I think I might be best going halfs with a friend,
what type of weight could I expect?I was thinking around 500lbs?
also would a cow supply all the dogs needs without other things in the
diet?...any thoughts on this will be greatly appreciated.
thanks in advance.

p.s...never got a price on sheep,but believe around £20/$40(would
sheep be a better buy?...as can be replaced with fresh animals,..were
as the cow will be frozen and take a while to use,..thanks Stephen.

Messages in this topic (1)
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10a. Re: expiration dates
Posted by: "chele519" chele519@yahoo.com chele519
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 6:09 pm ((PDT))

I just got a ton of old, freezer burned meat for free. 2 turkeys,
packages of ground beef, a couple roasts and a bunch of steaks. DOn't
worry about the expiration dates.
Michele

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
> "Jessie" <O_snobunnie_O@> wrote:
> >
> > how do you guys feel about using meat close to, on or after its
> > expiration date?
> >
> > I already plan to feed what I bought and not worry about it, but I
> > don't plan on using only old meat... just didn't know if anyone
> > followed any guidelines on the dates?

Messages in this topic (6)
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10b. Re: expiration dates
Posted by: "pelirojita" kerrymurray7@gmail.com pelirojita
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 6:10 pm ((PDT))

> The words "special today" are near and dear to my heart and
> pocketbook. This approach to stocking up works really well after big
> turkey holidays (I found freerange turkeys for .29/lb!) and after big
> BBQ holidays as well. I think many of us have learned to cruise the
> meat department early in the morning or before closing or on blow-out
> days, looking for the deals.
>
Hi Chris O,

This newbie needs some more specifics - this Wednesday, 4th of July,
should be a big BBQ holiday. In your experience, would the best deals
be on the 4th or the morning of the 5th. I can't necessarily shop
both days due to childcare and work constraints or I would canvas the
stores for the kind of deals you mentioned.

Thanks,
Kerry

Messages in this topic (6)
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10c. Re: expiration dates
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 8:35 pm ((PDT))

"pelirojita" <kerrymurray7@...> wrote:
> This newbie needs some more specifics - this Wednesday, 4th of July,
> should be a big BBQ holiday. In your experience, would the best deals
> be on the 4th or the morning of the 5th.
*****
Stands to reason, don't it.
But I don't know for sure. Seems to me that the 4th of July holiday
starts the weekend before and ends the Sunday afterwards in
retailspeak. But it strikes me as reasonable to me to consider
trolling on the evening of the 4th. Heck, morning of July 5 doesn't
seem too shabby either. (Like to share some waffles with me?)

I think it depends on the store and the habits/traditions of your
neighborhood. For example, in Sacramento, ad prices are good Wednesday
through Tuesday; leftover ad product is often blown out on Wednesday
morning.

OTOH, the store in the center where "my" laundromat is seems to have
some sort of "special today" meat every morning; I've been able to snag
affordable lamb kidneys and shanks there.

Much as I'd like to be able to nail this down for you, you may have to
sort it out yourself. Fortunately not everything in the US has been
reduced to formula. Good luck!
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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11a. Re: Veal breast
Posted by: "Bearhair" bearhair@spamcop.net bearhair61
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 6:09 pm ((PDT))

Kathy wrote:

>> Jagger has finally had a solid poop. Gave him some veal breast this
>> am and he has watery poop. I'm guessing this happens whenever you
>> intoduce something new. Do I continue to give it to him in hopes that
>> he will adjust?

Metra responded:

>I started Rusty on raw with veal breasts, and I remember they were
>really fatty and I was trimming out HUGE chunks of fat out of it
>(between the meat and bone, especially). Now I can feed them without
>trimming, unless it's an especially fatty piece and I'll trim it a
>little. I was surprised because I assumed that veal would be lean, but
>it's a fatty cut, which can lead to loose stools if your dog isn't used
>to it.

Agreed - I just fed veal breast and was astounded at the layer of fat between
the meat and bone. I yanked most of it out in order to avoid cannon butt
overnite. The bone was magnificent, though - soft with lots of cartilage
around it - perfect for my 8 toothed Collie (for those keeping score, over
the weekend, my vet spotted a molar hiding wayyyy in the back, which brings
his count to 8!).

Lean = less tender and juicy when cooked, so it actually makes sense that
veal would be loaded with fat - that's why "commercial" veal production
involves restricting movement of the calf.

Lora
Evanston, IL

Messages in this topic (3)
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12a. Re: Identifying edible bones versus "tooth-wreckers"
Posted by: "wenigj" wenigj@aol.com wenigj
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 6:10 pm ((PDT))

"Shoulders, ribs and anything else other than large leg bones from
cows, sheep or pigs are fine, right?"

I just got my first pork shoulder roast and when I opened it noticed
that there are some big bones inside the meat. They look like about
1/2 to and inch thick. I don't think they could be cut up (like
chicken bones) and I'm worried about giving them to my dogs who have
only had bones they could chew up (11mo and 13 yr old Goldens)
Will they figure this out and just pull the meat away from the bones,
or should I try to cut the meat off because I don't want them to break
their teeth? With the chicken and pork they've had, they have just
chomped everything, no pulling meat off at all. Advice is appreciated!
Thanks
Jill W.

Messages in this topic (4)
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13a. Re: WOW thanks for all the great help...
Posted by: "Catherine" eraser426@hotmail.com nihilumabesse
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 6:45 pm ((PDT))

Bumping in hopes of response.

Thank you all for your responses. I am sorry about my rudeness just
having a bad week and the comments at the dog park just about took the
cake for me. I've had at least 10 people tell me how thin she is in
the last couple weeks. Granted that those people's dogs are way fat. I
know she's thin but she is not emaciated. She's actually lost weight
in the last month and a half. She is a year and a half old. I put her
on the scale every couple weeks. I put her on yesterday and she was
down to 40lbs. She has been as heavy as 45 and that was when she first
came home to me in February. She was thin then. I can tell the
difference between a fat dog, a thin dog and those in proper weight. I
don't want her to be fat, I just don't know what to do when I see hip
bones and can feel her spine and ribs. To look at her it's difficult
to tell her weight because she's in a full continental clip and with
all the hair she looks fine. I appreciate all of your suggestions, and
I will try to add fattier foods. I don't ever remove skin or fat from
what she eats because I figure she needs all she can get. I've tried
giving her "other things" like yogurt, cottage cheese, etc... but all
she does is throw them up on my floor. She's got no health problems,
no parasites or worms. She acts like she always has happy, energetic
dog. She had a full blood panel when I got her in February. Everything
was normal including her thyroid. She does not shed hardly at all
being a poodle and if she did I would notice as she gets brushed
daily. Loose stools only occur with her when she eats something super
fatty or when she has her organs, which don't make up much of her
diet, she eats a pretty balanced 80/10/10. Again thank you for your
suggestions and I apologize for my rudeness, I'm concerned and she is
the first raw fed dog I've had.
One last question in this long long post... Her breeder was feeding
her pulped vegetables along with mostly chicken, tripe and ground
beef. She didn't feed much organ meat, if any and she fed very bony
meals from what she told me. I cut out all vegetables and added other
meats, organs, and a lot less bone when I brought her home. Would her
lack of proper feeding while growing have anything to do with trouble
putting on weight?

Thank you all again.

Catherine and Olivia

Messages in this topic (15)
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14. Eggs gave bad gas..
Posted by: "blueberry5297" blueberry5297@yahoo.com blueberry5297
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 8:47 pm ((PDT))

I gave Blue raw eggs twice and he loved them, though he didn't even
try to eat the shells. But both times, later in the day he had
horribly smelly gass... He stunk my step-dad out of the next room, and
it was even on a lower lever of the house! His gas never smells this
bad otherwise. Does this mean he shouldn't eat eggs, or is this just a
side effect?

- Jeni & Blue -

Messages in this topic (1)
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15. Pigs Feet left overs?
Posted by: "mz_boomer2" mz_boomer2@yahoo.com mz_boomer2
Date: Mon Jul 2, 2007 8:48 pm ((PDT))

Hi folks !

I hope this does not sound too lame, but since we are still new at
this, and you are my best recourse....

Last evening I got both of my labs 2 whole pig's feet. Both of my
labs are on the medium small size of 35-45 lb range and are both 2
years old. The pig's feet had been fully frozen at the carniceria
where we got them (and at a wonderful price I might add =D )...

Well I gave it to them later in the cooler evening hours, due to this
tremendous heat wave we have been having, and so these frozen goodies
were like iced treats for them! While the female takes wonderfully to
it, my boy just keeps guard over his ...LOL

My question is...since it was so late in the evening when they
started on the pig's feet...I acccidently fell asleep and when I woke
later in the morning, (like 9 hours later) there was still a good
left over on each one (more than half) that the pups exhausted
themselves over. So, I picked up the left overs, washed them, and put
them back into the freezer...can I still give the pigs feet again
after having been left out for so long and refrozen..????

Is it safe or is there too much of a bacteria risk ?

Ever in a quandery,

Pam and her too monkeys.. Christine & Halo =D

Messages in this topic (1)
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