[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11765

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Treats and Chicken bones
From: territurner3
1b. Re: Treats and Chicken bones
From: Nathalie Poulin
1c. Re: Treats and Chicken bones
From: Sandee Lee

2. Amount to feed 4wk puppies?
From: okbabylady

3a. Shedding
From: Jen
3b. Re: Shedding
From: costrowski75
3c. Re: Shedding
From: Jen

4a. Re: question about dog killing and eating a baby robin
From: Nathalie Poulin
4b. Re: question about dog killing and eating a baby robin
From: Evie

5a. Anyone in Oregon
From: monell2000
5b. Re: Anyone in Oregon
From: Laurie Swanson

6a. GRRRRRR....
From: Val Kilmer
6b. Re: GRRRRRR....
From: Sonja

7a. Re: Feeded Fish
From: Sandee Lee

8a. Questions about switching to raw diet--new to group
From: Eve Rosenzweig
8b. Questions about switching to raw diet--new to group
From: Maiakitas@aol.com
8c. Re: Questions about switching to raw diet--new to group
From: costrowski75

9a. How many times a day do you feed?
From: Felicia
9b. Re: How many times a day do you feed?
From: Jacqueline Miller
9c. Re: How many times a day do you feed?
From: Caren OConnor

10a. Thanks on Fish question/ Organ Question now....
From: K9FindM@aol.com
10b. Re: Thanks on Fish question/ Organ Question now....
From: Sandee Lee

11. Healthiest Dog I ever owned...
From: K9FindM@aol.com

12a. Epilepsy & raw feeding
From: Mary
12b. Re: Epilepsy & raw feeding
From: Sandee Lee

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Treats and Chicken bones
Posted by: "territurner3" turk739@hotmail.com territurner3
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 11:47 am ((PDT))

Hey there,
I'm very new to the raw diet....my family has always had dogs but
they were fed k*&&%# (the "k" word). So I am constantly wondering if
I'm feeding the right stuff, giving enough variety and pretty much
overplanning every meal for everyday, haha.

But what I wanted to know is what do you guys give your dogs/cats for
treats. My Dane is only 3 1/2 months old so we are doing training
with her and would like to reward her when she does well.
Should the treats also be raw or could you use dried meat?

Also, I went to a vet were I live and she has me very worried about
chicken bones and I guess just bone pieces in general. She said they
can form a "rock" in the dogs belly and ferment and then cause all
sorts of problems.
Has anyone ever had, or know of someone who's had problems with
bones? Should I be worried at all about chicken/pork/beef bones?
Thanks,
Terri

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: Treats and Chicken bones
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 12:17 pm ((PDT))

The only reason why any bone would form a "rock" in a dog's stomach is if it is cooked, and since you said you're feeding your dog raw, then I assume you aren't feeding cooked bones.
Vets are pros at scare tactics, and from what I've learned reading through the posts here, most have next to ZERO nutritional training. I'd be more worried about the vet that recommends kibble!
If the 9000+ people on this list have had troubles with bones, I think that most of us would probably stop feeding raw, but it really is the best thing you can do for your dog.
My dog eats chicken all the time, she crunches through the bones, shears the meat and loves every second of it. She eats whole chickens, goat necks, beef heart, beef liver, all sorts of pork chunks filled with edible bones and I've never had a problem with her forming "rocks" in her stomach.
Just make sure you're feeding her things that are bigger than her head (roughly) because if she's a scarfer you might have problems with her choking.
Trust your instincts! Don't give in to vet scare tactics!
Use this raw feeding group to your advantage!

Nathalie

territurner3 <turk739@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hey there,
I'm very new to the raw diet....my family has always had dogs but
they were fed k*&&%# (the "k" word). So I am constantly wondering if
I'm feeding the right stuff, giving enough variety and pretty much
overplanning every meal for everyday, haha.

But what I wanted to know is what do you guys give your dogs/cats for
treats. My Dane is only 3 1/2 months old so we are doing training
with her and would like to reward her when she does well.
Should the treats also be raw or could you use dried meat?

Also, I went to a vet were I live and she has me very worried about
chicken bones and I guess just bone pieces in general. She said they
can form a "rock" in the dogs belly and ferment and then cause all
sorts of problems.
Has anyone ever had, or know of someone who's had problems with
bones? Should I be worried at all about chicken/pork/beef bones?
Thanks,
Terri

---------------------------------
Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: Treats and Chicken bones
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 2:29 pm ((PDT))

Hi Terri,

The only reports I have heard about bones turning into "rocks" and causing
impactions were dogs being fed cooked ground chicken with bone! Stick to
the prey model of lots of meat and little bone and you will do fine. A Dane
can eat just about anything you hand out!! :))

Beef bones are harder and may be more difficult to digest, but for the most
part beef bones are not consumable and the large beef bones break and wear
teeth. Other than whole oxtail, I feed beef for the meat, not the bone.
But chicken, turkey, goat, lamb, pork, etc. should be easily consumable.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "territurner3" <turk739@hotmail.com>

Also, I went to a vet were I live and she has me very worried about
chicken bones and I guess just bone pieces in general. She said they
can form a "rock" in the dogs belly and ferment and then cause all
sorts of problems.
Has anyone ever had, or know of someone who's had problems with
bones? Should I be worried at all about chicken/pork/beef bones?

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2. Amount to feed 4wk puppies?
Posted by: "okbabylady" camie@babylady.com okbabylady
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 12:13 pm ((PDT))

I have 7 4wk lab puppies and mom is not letting them nurse at all...
we started them on raw last week, giving them as a group about 2lbs of
bone in chicken (quarters, thighs or breasts) once a day. They easily
get that down to the bone. I'm wondering if I should increase them to
more meals a day and how much should they get total? and should I make
any attempt to separate them so they each get a certain amount? They
eat like I would expect a pack to eat and it certainly seems like
everyone is getting their portion, the smallest pup is oddly enough
the most aggressive eater lol (and here I was worried about her)

btw anyone interested in a raw fed, non-vaxed lab mix puppy? :D I'm
willing to travel great distances to make sure they get into good homes.

Thanks!
Camie

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Shedding
Posted by: "Jen" jboydmorin@gmail.com choirgirl_21
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 12:14 pm ((PDT))

My dogs have had dull coats for quite some time now. I waited a while
to see if things would improve, then several weeks ago started them on
fish oil capsules. I thought by now they would have blown their
winter coats, but they are still shedding a ton and their coats are
pretty dull so I'm suspicious that's not the problem. Could you guys
take a look at what I'm feeding and let me know if you think I'm
missing anything, or if it's likely still just weather-related? Thanks.

I generally feed the following each week:

1 day - beef heart or other boneless cut of beef
1 day - whole lamb neck
1 day - rabbit
1 day - mackerel
2-3 days - chk quarters with beef liver added 1 day and most weeks
beef kidney added another day
2 fish oil caplets per day
An occasional egg or two

Occasionally I sub in other things or I vary how much of any
particular thing I'm feeding, but that's the gist. The meats I feed
are all organic, they're not all completely pasture-raised, but
they're not feedlot beef, etc. so they should have a decent amount of
omegas.

Any input is appreciated, thanks.
Jen

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: Shedding
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 2:03 pm ((PDT))

"Jen" <jboydmorin@...> wrote:
>
> My dogs have had dull coats for quite some time now.
*****
Only when raw fed, or previously? How long have you been feeding
raw? How long before you added FBO (I mean, "a while" is open to
interpretation).

I thought by now they would have blown their
> winter coats, but they are still shedding a ton and their coats are
> pretty dull so I'm suspicious that's not the problem.
*****
My Lab and foofoo golden are still blowing coat; the Lab's been fed
raw for seven years; the golden going on four. Both of them, when
the deluge ends, will have lovely coats. Eventually. Maybe your
switch to raw and the change of seasons coincided to produce one heck
of a coat change.

> I generally feed the following each week:
>
> 1 day - beef heart or other boneless cut of beef
> 1 day - whole lamb neck
> 1 day - rabbit
> 1 day - mackerel
> 2-3 days - chk quarters with beef liver added 1 day and most weeks
> beef kidney added another day
> 2 fish oil caplets per day
> An occasional egg or two
*****
It strikes me that you are not feeding much fat--one day of lamb
neck, one day of mackerel (can? whole fish?). Beef heart, rabbit,
liver and kidney are not notably fatty and unless the beef meat you
feed is fattier than the usual 1/4" trim, you might not be providing
fat there (and pastured beef is notably lean). Not sure how much fat
the chicken quarters carry but they are likely to offer a lot of
omega 6, which may part of the problem (if there is in fact a
problem) as you noted.

I recommend you consider upping the FBO intake, increasing dietary
fat and adding pork to the menu. It's difficult for me to believe
that both dogs would have thyroid issues, but diet changes make no
never mind, you might consider a full thyroid panel on both dogs.

Any lifestyle changes that might be affecting your dogs?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

3c. Re: Shedding
Posted by: "Jen" jboydmorin@gmail.com choirgirl_21
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 2:49 pm ((PDT))

Thanks Chris, for the input. Will do my best to answer your questions...

> Only when raw fed, or previously? How long have you been feeding
> raw? How long before you added FBO (I mean, "a while" is open to
> interpretation).

I've fed raw for several years. I noticed changes around several
months ago I would say that did seem to coincide with some changes in
the way I feed raw though. One of the changes was to switch from a
large amt of chicken backs to a more varied diet - chk backs are
pretty fatty so this makes sense in light of your suggestion below.

> It strikes me that you are not feeding much fat--one day of lamb
> neck, one day of mackerel (can? whole fish?). Beef heart, rabbit,
> liver and kidney are not notably fatty and unless the beef meat you
> feed is fattier than the usual 1/4" trim, you might not be providing
> fat there (and pastured beef is notably lean). Not sure how much fat
> the chicken quarters carry but they are likely to offer a lot of
> omega 6, which may part of the problem (if there is in fact a
> problem) as you noted.
>
When I feed mackerel I am feeding whole fresh fish. I think the cut
of beef I get and the beef hearts are pretty fatty (these are whole
beef hearts that I just cut in half, one for each dog) but they
certainly don't have the layer of fat that the lamb or pork cuts do.

> I recommend you consider upping the FBO intake, increasing dietary
> fat and adding pork to the menu. It's difficult for me to believe
> that both dogs would have thyroid issues, but diet changes make no
> never mind, you might consider a full thyroid panel on both dogs.
>
> Any lifestyle changes that might be affecting your dogs?

No to lifestyle changes. Well, the only thing that has changed is an
increase in our activity level as we're hiking much more with the
season change. I did mean to say though that I upped their food as
well and they are both at ideal weights. I don't think there are
thyroid issues at play here. Any other suggestions on increasing fat
to the diet? I don't feed pork b/c it's virtually impossible to get
any that is all natural that I can also afford although occasionally I
find it and buy what they have.

I could feed the lamb necks more often if that would help - I get a
good price on them, they take a good bit of time for the dogs to eat
and they seem to have the perfect bone:meat ratio in terms of my dogs
stool. Can't argue with any of that. :>)

Thanks,
Jen

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: question about dog killing and eating a baby robin
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 12:16 pm ((PDT))

What exactly are you feeding them? Maybe when you say you're feeding them raw you aren't giving enough bones?
Is it actually the runs? Or just loose stool? Most dogs go through an adjustment period when starting on raw, (sometimes it takes as long as 2 weeks) but it's worth it for us humans to just wait it out before thinking about going back to kibble.
I think one of the worst things you could do is feed kibble AND raw! Especially if they don't even like the kibble!
Stop smashing up their bones, and stop hand-feeding. Let them go to town on the meat and you'll see, they'll get it.
Also, the reason why we have this group is for resource purposes! Tell us what your dog is eating (when eating raw) and try and figure out why he has the runs and if anyone else has the same problem or has overcome the same problem they can help you out!

Nathalie

reesecup35 <reesecup35@yahoo.com> wrote:
all but my long hair dog he
doesn't have very big teeth and I needed to help him. I have been
giving them alittle raw with the k***** they don't really want the
k***** but they are picky with the chicken and when I feed other meat
other than Chicken they get pickier and they also get the runs even
when I gradually introduce the new meat to them,so I had decided to
just feed K***** from now on

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: question about dog killing and eating a baby robin
Posted by: "Evie" archie.willow@yahoo.co.uk archie.willow
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 3:29 pm ((PDT))

Hi, With regards to the Robin;
My two have been killing birds long before I introduced them to raw
feeding. I certainly don't beleve the two are linked.
Evie

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Anyone in Oregon
Posted by: "monell2000" monell2000@yahoo.com monell2000
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 1:38 pm ((PDT))

Does anone live in oregon that orders their meat? I am looking for
somewhere to order rabbit, goat, anything like that. I know they need
the different meats. All I can find is chicken. pork, beef, turkey,
and some lamb. I called a couple private butchers, but they would not
sell me even the organs that they throw away. Said that they can't. I
can get the beef liver, and the chicken liver, the sweetbreads,
kidney, heart at walmart. and I ordered green tripe.
Anyway just thought maybe someone else here in oregon had some ideas

Monell

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: Anyone in Oregon
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 2:50 pm ((PDT))

Hi Monell,

Check out this group if you haven't already:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/wazzuor_barf/

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "monell2000" <monell2000@...> wrote:
>
> Does anone live in oregon that orders their meat?

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. GRRRRRR....
Posted by: "Val Kilmer" DPM333@aol.com dferris23
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 2:12 pm ((PDT))

Anyone have a dog that growls when there eating a RMB. Hes not
growling at anyone or anything cuz he's the only one in the room(don't
worrie im supervising him, he just cant see me). He just growls
sometimes. Im thinking he's enjoying it, & it's his way of
saying "MMMMMMM Good!" When we (kids,me,friends) do go up to him &
pet him he dosn't growl. But sometimes he does all by himself. Hes a
16 week old Bull Terrier. Ben on RAW since week 6 & aint turning
back! Thanks Derek @ Chicago!

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: GRRRRRR....
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 3:29 pm ((PDT))

Sounds like he's just really enjoying himself! As long as it isn't directed at anyone I wouldn't worry about it.

I have a parrot that growls when he gets a particularly yummy treat, and had a dobie and shepherd that growled when playing tug-of-war. If your bull terrier is enjoying his meal as uch as my dogs enjoyed a good game of tug, you've got one happy pup there!

Sonja

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: Feeded Fish
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 2:19 pm ((PDT))

Maria,

Fish is fed mainly for the meat...it's a great source of protein. Fish is
far more species appropriate than poultry!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: <K9FindM@aol.com>

> Hi - I am new to the group and see that fish is on the menu for many raw
> feeders. I feed raw, but have only on occasion fed fish. To me, it
didn't seem
> like a " as natural" food for dogs (as opposed to poultry or rabbit),
> although I am sure it can be scavenged in the wild. Do people feed fish
mainly for
> the meat or for the omega oils?

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Questions about switching to raw diet--new to group
Posted by: "Eve Rosenzweig" loulou_bean@yahoo.com loulou_bean
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 2:47 pm ((PDT))

Hello,

I apologize for this lengthy email, but I have been doing a lot of research on raw and although I'm convinced this is the way to go for my pekingese, it's raised a bunch of questions. Many sources suggest a "figuring it out as you go" mentality, which makes sense but is a little overwhelming. As my peke is still eating grains along with raw ground beef, yogurt and such, I am hoping to get some final facts before making the switch. Brace yourselves...here goes...

--Is there anything I should look for when buying a raw meaty bone? Animal
part? Animal type? My pekingese is 17lbs and just want
to be sure I am buying the right type and size bones.
Is he supposed to eat/actually crunch on the actual
bone along with the meat? A couple of sources mentioned chicken necks and wings but I thought these are too small and could be a choking hazard. My dog is a big gulper as well--so I'm scared of this part of the diet.

--What about fish? Are there certain types of fish I should stay away from? Mercury concerns? And give him the whole fish?? Scales and all? And what percentage should his diet consist of fish vs. meat/chicken?

--Can I feed him turkey?

--I live in NYC and don't have access to a whole slew of animal choices, especially at a discount. Realistically I would probably feed different cuts of beef, chicken, turkey, lamb, fish, and maybe a few others I can get my hands on. And a small variety of organs, like heart, liver. Is this enough variety? What other organs should I give him?

--I also fast my peke 1 day a week. On this
(organs, fresh meat, bones) diet, how often should he
fast? I read that their systems need to rest from time
to time.

--Should I feed him once or twice a day? And if once a day, in the morning or the evening?

--Should I combine organs with meat, or meat with bones for each of his meals? Or should I stick with just one of the three sources (organ, meat, bone) per meal? And is the meaty bone considered one full meal?

--I read that I should feed him about 2-3% of his body weight, which equals about 3.5 ounces per meal.????? Is it easiest to get a scale?

--Am I cutting up the slab of meat or what have you? Or am I just giving it to him as is and he chews it apart? If he is a gulper I'm afraid he might try to consume it all at once and choke.

I know everyone must have their own method, but any personal suggestions would be a great starting point for me.I just want to be sure I am doing the right things. On another note, I am really glad I found this group.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated,
Eve, NYC

---------------------------------
Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Questions about switching to raw diet--new to group
Posted by: "Maiakitas@aol.com" Maiakitas@aol.com maiakitas
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 3:27 pm ((PDT))

Eve,

I am brand new to raw feeding myself and on day 5 with my dogs, but I do have
one suggestion about finding meat options. I am also in a large city and all
you have to do is find some markets that cater to different ethnic groups. I
lucked out and found a butcher that catered to many different ethnicity's and
the prices were better than the supermarket.

I am sure in NYC, you can find something similar. Think of area where there
is a mixture of ethnic groups living together and you will find a wide variety
of meats.

Good luck.

Regards,
Carla

**************************************
See what's free at

http://www.aol.com.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

8c. Re: Questions about switching to raw diet--new to group
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 4:19 pm ((PDT))

Eve Rosenzweig <loulou_bean@...> wrote:
> --Is there anything I should look for when buying a raw meaty bone?
*****
I recommend you not focus on the concept of "raw meaty bones" but
rather look for body parts, some of which will be very meaty bones,
some of which will be meat, some of which will be organs. "Raw meaty
bones" gives one the impression that all are created equal and they
most certainly are not. Most raw meaty bones are more bone than
meat, and a good raw diet should be more meat than bone.

What you want to look for is meat, either wrapped succulently around
an edible or somewhat edible bone or by itself in all its meaty glory.

Animal
> part?
*****
This is an excellent perspective! Yes, animal parts. Necks,
shoulders, briskets, ribs, shanks, legs, loins, groins, hocks, hams,
tails, entrails. Not to mention wings, thighs, backs, breasts, half
birds, whole birds. Not to mention steaks, roasts, trim.

Animal type?
*****
Walks, flies, swims--it's yours to feed. Ideal perhaps are ruminants
(cow, goat, lamb, deer) but certainly pigs and poultry are valuable.

> Is he supposed to eat/actually crunch on the actual
> bone along with the meat?
*****
Yes, he must crunch and eat bones for the nutrition, for the
exercise, for the dental hygiene, for the fun. Edible bone is a
small but essential part of a good raw diet.

A couple of sources mentioned chicken necks and wings but I thought
these are too small and could be a choking hazard. My dog is a big
gulper as well--so I'm scared of this part of the diet.
*****
The way one stymies a gulper is to feed big food. Instead of wings
or necks, consider wing/breast combos, or leg quarters, or other
sections of chicken cut willy nilly from the whole bird. Go even
bigger than that--lamb neck, pork shoulder roast.

> --What about fish? Are there certain types of fish I should stay
away from? Mercury concerns? And give him the whole fish?? Scales and
all? And what percentage should his diet consist of fish vs.
meat/chicken?
*****
Yes, whole means scales and all, although you can also feed filets if
you wish. Lots of fishy options. Here are a couple fishy websites
that may help you. You want more, I got more.
http://www.oceansalive.org/eat.cfm?subnav=bestandworst
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~frf/sea-mehg.html
http://www.mbayaq.org/cr/seafoodwatch.asp

> --Can I feed him turkey?
*****
My goodness, yes! A good source of high quality protein, as unlike
chicken as goat is lamb.

> --I live in NYC and don't have access to a whole slew of animal
choices, especially at a discount. Realistically I would probably
feed different cuts of beef, chicken, turkey, lamb, fish, and maybe a
few others I can get my hands on.
*****
Others from NYC can advise you more appropriately than I about
resources, but I urge you to not to set your sights too low. You
haven't begun to look, you cannot imagine what delights you'll find.

And a small variety of organs, like heart, liver. Is this enough
variety?
*****
Variety is one of the best ways to assure optimal nutrition. I
recommend never giving up the hunt for red october, I mean meat.

What other organs should I give him?
*****
Heart is fed as muscle meat, as are gizzards and tongue. You should,
long term, shoot for 3%-5% of the diet as liver; another 5% of the
menu can be kidney, spleen, reproductive organs, glands. Or not.
Again, variety is how you hit all the high notes, the low notes and
the midrange between. Not all the time, just when you can. Don't
stop looking.

> --I also fast my peke 1 day a week. On this
> (organs, fresh meat, bones) diet, how often should he
> fast? I read that their systems need to rest from time
> to time.
*****
I don't believe their systems need time to rest. I also don't
believe they need to eat regularly by the clock; I let meal size
determine how often my dogs eat. If your menu offers no volume
reason to skip a meal, then I don't see the point...but certainly,
skip one once a week if you want.

--Should I feed him once or twice a day? And if once a day, in the
morning or the evening?
*****
I think you should feed him big, engrossing, fulfilling meals and
then skip meals til it's time for more big, engrossing fulfilling
meals, but if you're shy of that, then go for as big a meal as you
can offer on a daily basis. Which right off jettisons the notion of
twice a day.

Your feeding schedule can be what you want it to be...the nice thing
is you can change it any old time you want, and then change it again
if you need to, and again. Unless there's reason not to, I'd
recommend once a day to start.

> --Should I combine organs with meat, or meat with bones for each of
his meals? Or should I stick with just one of the three sources
(organ, meat, bone) per meal? And is the meaty bone considered one
full meal?
*****
You are trying to apply order where none is required! Feed meats
separate, mixed together, with added bone, boneless--it is all okay
and none of it is wrong if it works for you and your dog. You do not
have to make each meal a vision of balanced perfection, the meals you
can feed can be lopsided and upside down and backwards if that's what
comes out of the freezer.

If the meaty bone isn't so meaty (most are not so meaty), you might
want to add meat to the meal. Or you can feed the next meal as a
meaty extravaganza with no bone in sight. A good raw diet is not
determined meal by meal, nor day by day, nor even week by week. Like
Old Man River, it just keeps rolling along. Hmm, sorta like life.

> --I read that I should feed him about 2-3% of his body weight,
which equals about 3.5 ounces per meal.????? Is it easiest to get a
scale?
*****
If you are that type of person, yes. However, a. small dogs often
need as much as 5% a day, and b. your best guideline is how your dog
looks and acts on what you feed. If you need a scale to get going,
get one. My guess is though, as you learn the ropes, you'll find
less and less need for a scale.

> --Am I cutting up the slab of meat or what have you?
*****
You can do this.

Or am I just giving it to him as is and he chews it apart?
*****
But this would probably be more fun for him and a better workout.

If he is a gulper I'm afraid he might try to consume it all at once
and choke.
*****
And you minimize this possbility by feeding Big Food. Feed a big
hunk of something, collect it up when you think he's had enough; feed
the remainder the next meal and if the remnants are scary small,
chop 'em up fine. Don't just go for bigger. Go for REALLY BIG and
make him work for his meal.

On another note, I am really glad I found this group.
*****
And we're glad to have you.

Check out
http://rawfed.com
http://rawfeddogs.net

And consider joining Yahoogroups to avail yourself of the list
archives.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. How many times a day do you feed?
Posted by: "Felicia" greenmomma@gmail.com chitown_ninersgirl
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 3:27 pm ((PDT))

I usually feed a couple times a day, but I'm wondering if more or less
often would be optimal. I searched the archives and it looks like
some people also feed twice a day. My dogs are 2 1/2 and 1 1/2 - are
they old enough to eat only once a day?

Thanks for your input!

Felicia, Mom to
Bella & Katie

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

9b. Re: How many times a day do you feed?
Posted by: "Jacqueline Miller" beaulincolnsmine@yahoo.com beaulincolnsmine
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 3:56 pm ((PDT))

I feed twice a day. I have two shepherds; a standard
poodle and a lhasa apso. My females don't like to eat
all the time so I feel they do better with the two
meals. Shepherds have problems with bloat and even
though they are on a raw diet where bloat usually
isn't a problem having the two meals doesn't overload
their sometimes sensitive digestive systems.
Jackie

--- Felicia <greenmomma@gmail.com> wrote:

> I usually feed a couple times a day, but I'm
> wondering if more or less
> often would be optimal. I searched the archives and
> it looks like
> some people also feed twice a day. My dogs are 2
> 1/2 and 1 1/2 - are
> they old enough to eat only once a day?
>
> Thanks for your input!
>
> Felicia, Mom to
> Bella & Katie
>
>

____________________________________________________________________________________
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

9c. Re: How many times a day do you feed?
Posted by: "Caren OConnor" cavkist@yahoo.com cavkist
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 4:09 pm ((PDT))

Felicia -
Sometimes I feed 2X/daily and sometimes once. I vary so as to keep them always thinkin'. I also feed at different times of the day, depending upon what was fed the day prior.
The fish in Koi pond are on more of a schedule than my four-legged furry friends:)
But, I will say that I make a point to give liver and a raw egg weekly.
I don't think it's necessary to have a schedule set in stone. At least not for my guys.
Good luck with your critters:)
Caren O'Connor
Nansemond Cavaliers

---------------------------------
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. Thanks on Fish question/ Organ Question now....
Posted by: "K9FindM@aol.com" K9FindM@aol.com bctwister03
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 3:28 pm ((PDT))

I feed my dogs organs (mainly livers) only a few times per week. I had
heard that they contain a ton of vitamin A and you do not want to overfeed that
since it can build up in the body and be harmful. Can someone give me more
info on organ feeding and Vitamin A?

Thanks,

Maria Hillegas
SARDOM

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

10b. Re: Thanks on Fish question/ Organ Question now....
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 3:30 pm ((PDT))

Maria,

Stick with approximately 5% of the overall diet and you'll be fine! 10%
organs, half of that amount should be liver.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: <K9FindM@aol.com>

> I feed my dogs organs (mainly livers) only a few times per week. I had
> heard that they contain a ton of vitamin A and you do not want to
overfeed that
> since it can build up in the body and be harmful. Can someone give me
more
> info on organ feeding and Vitamin A?

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11. Healthiest Dog I ever owned...
Posted by: "K9FindM@aol.com" K9FindM@aol.com bctwister03
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 3:29 pm ((PDT))

Just a note to pass along - the healthiest dog that I have ever owned and
worked was a border collie/blue heeler mix that I worked on my longhorn cattle.
Although we provided what I thought was a "good" diet at our time with him
- he preferred the dead deer that were hit in front of our farm (which was
year round and many). He had the shiniest coat, worked the best and continue
to work cattle until he was 16 and died at the age of 17.

Maria Hillegas
SARDOM

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12a. Epilepsy & raw feeding
Posted by: "Mary" dobesrcool@cox.net dobesrcool
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 4:10 pm ((PDT))

I have been feeding raw for 6 yrs now just winging it on my own trying
my best.After reading the post for the last few days I have learned
alot.I now have a new rescue boy has epilepsy he's 4 yrs old and has
been on meds since a pup 3mo's.(Phenobarbital 97.2 mg. @ 5 per day)When
we got him we put him on raw right away,his weight was 110lbs and now
is 95lbs. Never had a dog with this so we have been doing some research
on it.Now we a seeing that the raw diet is very very bad for the
Epilepsy dog.Does anyone have any suggestions on this.We are going
crazy with this,please help if you have the time..

Mary
dobesrcool@cox.net

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

12b. Re: Epilepsy & raw feeding
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2007 4:16 pm ((PDT))

Mary,

You heard wrong. Raw is absolutely the best thing you can feed a dog with
epilepsy. Diet change is one of the first things recommended...well, after
getting on the appropriate meds, of course! But generally you will see a
reduction in seizures, some dogs have even been able to lower the
dose/discontinue them.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Mary" <dobesrcool@cox.net>

.I now have a new rescue boy has epilepsy he's 4 yrs old and has
been on meds since a pup 3mo's.(Phenobarbital 97.2 mg. @ 5 per day)When
we got him we put him on raw right away,his weight was 110lbs and now
is 95lbs. Never had a dog with this so we have been doing some research
on it.Now we a seeing that the raw diet is very very bad for the
Epilepsy dog.Does anyone have any suggestions on this.We are going
crazy with this,please help if you have the time..

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------