Feed Pets Raw Food: [rawfeeding] Digest Number 11776

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: What to try next -more specifically
From: Suzie G
1b. Re: What to try next -more specifically
From: costrowski75

2a. Re: Thank You!
From: Giselle

3a. Re: Non Poopers
From: Giselle
3b. Re: Non Poopers
From: Bearhair

4a. Re: Typical Human
From: JoAnn Gongos
4b. Re: Typical Human
From: Bearhair
4c. Re: Typical Human
From: Giselle

5a. Re: another Question?
From: h h
5b. Re: another Question?
From: Giselle
5c. Re: another Question?
From: costrowski75
5d. Re: another Question?
From: Lyse Garant

6.1. Re: Fish
From: Bearhair
6.2. Re: Fish
From: Maiakitas@aol.com
6.3. Re: Fish
From: costrowski75

7a. Re: dental problems
From: Yuliya Brown
7b. Re: dental problems
From: Yuliya Brown
7c. Re: dental problems
From: Giselle
7d. Re: dental problems
From: Yuliya Brown

8a. Getting ready to take the plunge!
From: costrowski75
8b. Getting ready to take the plunge!
From: costrowski75

9. WHOOO HOO!!!
From: Linda Edgington

10. new with many questions
From: faithk99

11a. Re: Newbie - introduction - bought chicken - what to do with it?
From: Patrice Quinn

12. Moral Support and Feedback
From: meg_helmes

Messages
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1a. Re: What to try next -more specifically
Posted by: "Suzie G" gusmyhairyboy@charter.net gusmyhairyboy
Date: Sun Jul 8, 2007 6:18 am ((PDT))

Hi,Suzie G. here

I will be getting a 7 week old Golden puppy very soon. I also have a question about moving on to a new protein source after being on chicken for a week or two succesfully. If you had a choice would you start with whole chicken cut in hunks or whole rabbit cut up? (fur or no fur ?) I have regular access to rabbit and it is cheaper than chicken. (would you give a new puppy a whole rabbit carcuss to "play " with? heads?) After being on their first protein source for a week or two do you add the new source (ex.pork) by itself for the next week or do you slowly add ex. pork to chicken meals? Do you ONLY feed one kind of meat for each week of the introduction period ?(week 1-ONLY chicken and chicken offal,week 2 ONLY rabbit and rabbit offal,week 3 -ONLY pork etc.) Or do you continua to give little bits of previously introduced meat?

Does this include training treats?(week 1 -chicken liver, week 3 pork liver?) We will be starting puppy classes at 7.5 weeks.

Thankyou for your input.

Suzie G.

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Messages in this topic (2)
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1b. Re: What to try next -more specifically
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jul 8, 2007 9:33 am ((PDT))

"Suzie G" <gusmyhairyboy@...> wrote:
> I will be getting a 7 week old Golden puppy very soon.
*****
This is great! Oh, write me privately please please please and give
me all the details. Yippee! Yippee!

I also have a question about moving on to a new protein source after
being on chicken for a week or two succesfully. If you had a choice
would you start with whole chicken cut in hunks or whole rabbit cut
up? (fur or no fur ?)
*****
I think you are overthinking this. Baby pups are the easiest to feed
raw to--just do it. You oughtn't have to stick to a week or two of
just chicken but if that's what you've got your mind set on, then by
all means add bits of other protein to the meals from the get-go. Not
whole meals, just smidges of this and that, including bits of liver
and heart.

I recommend you start with whatever you feel comfortable with, then
add the other meat. Chicken is likely to be fattier than rabbit,
which is good because pupsters need fat, and bad because too much fat
for the initiated tummy can be distressing for all parties.

After being on their first protein source for a week or two do you
add the new source (ex.pork) by itself for the next week or do you
slowly add ex. pork to chicken meals? Do you ONLY feed one kind of
meat for each week of the introduction period ?(week 1-ONLY chicken
and chicken offal,week 2 ONLY rabbit and rabbit offal,week 3 -ONLY
pork etc.) Or do you continua to give little bits of previously
introduced meat?
*****
My goodness, I think you've forgotten to breathe. It is easier to
introduce raw to a pup than it is to an adult. At the very least you
have three if not four meals a day to work with. The meals are small
right now and they are plentiful: feeding one protein for a week at
this point is covering at least 21 meals! Don't squander this golden
opportunity by limiting access.

I started my pup at seven weeks on quail; for her size one dressed
quail was exactly a meal. Meal three was quail and a wee blop of
green tripe. By the end of the first week, she had successfully
eaten quail, venison, chicken meat, smashed chicken back, a smashed
wing+ cut from a cornish game hen, a piece of salmon filet, a
mouthful of lamb, a pork blade bone to clean up, a chicken heart, a
mere smear of chicken liver. After that I sort of focused on
increasing amounts of each food. If things would have gone south I
would have backed off, simplified; things did not go south.

> Does this include training treats?(week 1 -chicken liver, week 3
pork liver?) We will be starting puppy classes at 7.5 weeks.
*****
For a pupster that young, a training treat is a hangnail's worth of
anything. I suspect rampant treating will be encouraged, so using
liver extensively will almost certainly produce digestive distress.
I would not use liver, in fact, I've never used liver to train with,.
I've seen too many mid-class meltdowns. I think teensy bits of
cooked chicken and maybe beef heart (lean, lean, lean) would be
safer. I can't see them being refused.

Whatever you use, if the amount you treat is signficant, cut back on
meal size accordingly.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: Thank You!
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Jul 8, 2007 6:51 am ((PDT))

Hi, Linda! Welcome and Congratulations, no luck needed!
Just post and let us know when you have questions, and keep us current
on your progress!
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I just joined this group a few days ago. I checked out the BARF diet a
> few years ago but continued to feed the k word. I have a 4 yr old
> female GSD and an old beat up tom cat. I have read about a hundred
> posts and about a dozen web sites. Well I switched them to raw
> yesterday. Ginger (the dog) would not eat today, she ate some grass,
> threw up got real excited about feeling better and put away a leg
> quarter, a wing and some organ meat. Nap time! lol
> I enjoy this group and all the great information I have received from
> all you raw feeders. Ginger has skin problems, colitis, is overweight
> and licks her feet all the time. Hoping that getting rid of kibble will
> clear some of it up. My vet said allergies and wanted to give her
> steroids. Wish me luck.
> Linda, Ginger and Screech
>

Messages in this topic (2)
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3a. Re: Non Poopers
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Jul 8, 2007 7:10 am ((PDT))

Hi, Michele!
You *want* more poop? lol
What exactly have have you been feeding?
Generally, if you are seeing crumbly chalky poops and the dog seems a
bit constipated, you are feeding way too much bone. For a "quick fix",
feed a bit more organs, some Salmon or Fish Body oil or, alternatively
some Slippery Elm Bark Powder, especially if their bowels seem irritated.
Feed too much organ, and you can end up with the other extreme, runny
poops. : )
Long term, you need to feed more meatymeat. The general rule of thumb
is about 80% meat (muscle, fat, skin, connective tissue, anything that
isn't bone or organs), only about 10% bone, and about 10% organ. Each
dog is an individual, however, and the percentages must be adjusted to
what is optimal for each of them, right at that time.
You will see a dramatic reduction in the volume and frequency of poops
on the raw diet, this is entirely normal, as raw is more completely
digested than kibble.
Post and let us know what your dogs have been eating, and you will get
more specific information so you can tweak their diet.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> My 2 bullmastiff pups aren't pooping. I have seen some chalky and I
know that means to
> much bone, but nothing like I am used to with kibble of course.
What can I give them to
> loosen them up a bit? My one BM takes her time eating and her
sister gobbles it up
> practically whole.
>
> Michele
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: Non Poopers
Posted by: "Bearhair" bearhair@spamcop.net bearhair61
Date: Sun Jul 8, 2007 7:13 am ((PDT))

You wrote:

>My 2 bullmastiff pups aren't pooping. I have seen some chalky and I know that means to
>much bone, but nothing like I am used to with kibble of course. What can I give them to
>loosen them up a bit? My one BM takes her time eating and her sister gobbles it up
>practically whole.
>
>Michele

How long have you been on raw? What are you feeding them?

Do you walk them and have the opportunity to SEE them have a bowel movement
or do they have the run of the yard and you look around every day or two?

Poop from raw-fed dogs are smaller, denser, and turn white and disintegrate
in about a day in the sun. Unless the only way they can poop is with you
present . . . they're doing it and you're seeing the benefits of feeding food
that is almost wholly digestible!

Chalky poop is only a valid diagnostic tool for bone percentage when it is
observed immediately upon it seeing the light of day - a few hours later and
a normal poop will have already started turning white and chalky.

Lora
Evanston, IL

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: Typical Human
Posted by: "JoAnn Gongos" jogongos@adelphia.net joanngongos
Date: Sun Jul 8, 2007 7:13 am ((PDT))

-As the owner of a GSD who spent a year watching my dog suffer from itching and a dry sparse coat and spending money at the vets to no avail I urge you to get him on RMB NOW. My GSDs coat got soft and thick within a couple weeks, the itching gradually decreased and was totally gone in three months. Don't wait for the research, it is all on this list.

JoAnn

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Messages in this topic (14)
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4b. Re: Typical Human
Posted by: "Bearhair" bearhair@spamcop.net bearhair61
Date: Sun Jul 8, 2007 8:08 am ((PDT))

Lyse wrote:

>Giselle? You seem to know a lot, I am also in NJ, with welsh terrier Guinness. I have fed him cooked chicken on two previous occasions and both times he vomited. Do you think he could be allergic to chicken? Will raw chicken have a different effect? Should I remove the skin? thanks....

Sounds like you haven't made the switch? There are numerous reports in the
archives of dogs who were apparently severely allergic to one or more protein
sources when fed it in kibble or cooked form, and once swicthed fully to raw
prey model, showed NO sign of allergies from that or any other protein source
again.

Cooked meat is NOT the same as raw meat.

Lora
Evanston, IL

Messages in this topic (14)
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4c. Re: Typical Human
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Jul 8, 2007 8:13 am ((PDT))

Hi, Lyse!
Look where you posted in Re: Another Question.
I know a little, willing to share a lot. lol
Giselle

> Giselle? You seem to know a lot, I am also in NJ, with welsh terrier
Guinness. I have fed him cooked chicken on two previous occasions and
both times he vomited. Do you think he could be allergic to chicken?
Will raw chicken have a different effect? Should I remove the skin?
thanks....
> Lyse

Messages in this topic (14)
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5a. Re: another Question?
Posted by: "h h" deedeekinsisme@yahoo.com tarbedyh
Date: Sun Jul 8, 2007 7:13 am ((PDT))

My welsh terrier likes to eat his own crap, and he craps like 6 times a day. I just started raw feeding with yesterday's dinner. He is 16 weeks old. will raw feeding help me GET RID OF THIS GROSS PROBLEM?

~~~~~~~~~
It may, or may not...depending on why your dog is eating its own feces. Grain doesn't digest as well as raw meat. So, to many kibble fed dogs, what came out the other end is still the dog food they ate a short while ago. However, coprophagia (eating feces) and other forms of pica can be a sign of vaccinosis, and if this is the reason for your dog eating its waste, the change to a raw diet will not have as much effect.

HEIDI MARIE
~with the woofs-Cheyenne and Lazy B~
~and the moggies-Minerva, Shasta, and Misty-Jo~

---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

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Messages in this topic (14)
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5b. Re: another Question?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Jul 8, 2007 7:57 am ((PDT))

Hi, uh, Lyse! - You didn't sign your email.
Raw fed dogs do poop less frequently and have smaller poops. The raw
diet is also much more completely digestible than kibble, which may
make the stool less interesting to eat....
Will feeding raw be enough to stop your pup from indulging in cophragia?
Dunno. I suspect not.
There are several components involved in cophragia; the attractiveness
of the indigestible ingredients in kibble that end up stool is only
one of them.
1) Age. Puppies play with, and try to eat everything. If they eat
stool, it can become a habit.
2) Opportunity. If stool is not left lying around for the dog to eat,
it can't eat it.
3) Boredom. Too much time alone can allow a dog to pick up the habit
of cophragia.
4) Lack of stimulation. Having no toys, or not being introduced to
acceptable toys can contribute to the dog finding unacceptable
objects, like stool, to play with and eat.
5) Lack of interaction. Not having regular adequate play time and
interactions with humans and other dogs can leave the dog looking for
'stuff' to do.
6) Habit. Once a dog establishes a habit, any habit, it can be hard to
eradicate.
7) Management. Pups need to be managed just like babies. You wouldn't
place a baby in the middle of the floor and let them go where ever and
do whatever, would you? Crates, ex-pens and leashes for pups are like
cribs, play pens and swingies for babies. Baby gates in doorways are
appropriate for both young critter types.
If you provide adequate supervision, management and redirection during
the changeover to raw, I believe you can stop this behavior from
becoming a habit.
If you are feeding a raw, species appropriate prey model diet, you are
*not* feeding cooked anything! Pups can throw up after eating, if they
eat too much, too fast, or unfamiliar foods.
Start with one protein only, to facilitate the switch to raw. After a
week,add a new protein. Then another, etc.
Feed whole chickens, cut up. You should be able to feed a quarter
chicken to him, take it up when he's done eating on it and put it in
the fridge. He may be able eat a quarter a day, it depends. Maybe
more, maybe less. Toss out any bones he doesn't consume.
Edible bone is a small part of the diet, but an essential one. The
general rule of thumb is 80% meat (muscle, fat, skin, connective
tissue, anything that isn't organ or bone), 10% organ and 10% bone.
The gizzards and heart that come with the chickens can be fed as meat.
Add only a tiny bit if liver (organ) at a meal.
Your pup should be eating 3 times a day at this time in his life.
Twice a day by 6 months and once a day before a year old.
Pups should be pottied frequently, after feeding, after drinking,
after playing, after crate time, every hour while awake, and when they
wake in the night. If you have your pup within your sight at all
times, you can see when he's looking for a spot to potty and take him
out asap. Keeping him on a 10-15 foot lead tied to your waist indoors
will insure he won't get out of sight, and that you're watching him at
all times. Keeping him on lead out doors will insure you can keep him
from eating the poop after he goes. Carrying a baggy or having a long
handled pooper scooper to pick up poops promptly will help eliminate a
lot of the opportunity to develop the habit of cophragia.
Raw fed dogs are, ime, happier, healthier, and longer lived. And they
do poop less, overall, lol.
Is this your first puppy?
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> My welsh terrier likes to eat his own crap, and he craps like 6
times a day. I just started raw feeding with yesterday's dinner. He is
16 weeks old. will raw feeding help me GET RID OF THIS GROSS PROBLEM?
> Also, I had asked about chicken. I had fed him cooked chicken
twice in the past and both times he threw up. Is is possible he is
allergic to chicken? I want to feed him some raw chicken, last night
and this a.m. he had cut up london broil raw. He's already crapped
twice this morning, and I caught him eating the second one. He ate
about half of it before I caught him. I HATE that habit and want to
get rid of it.
> I heard that raw fed dogs crap a lot less, so that should help me,
right?

Messages in this topic (14)
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5c. Re: another Question?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jul 8, 2007 8:58 am ((PDT))

Lyse Garant <lyse_garant@...> wrote:
>
> My welsh terrier likes to eat his own crap, and he craps like 6
times a day. I just started raw feeding with yesterday's dinner. He
is 16 weeks old. will raw feeding help me GET RID OF THIS GROSS
PROBLEM?
*****
A good raw diet will definitely get rid of six craps a day! My
goodness, whatever you are feeding it's going through your pup like
water. That alone would be enough to get me to switch to raw.

Appropriate raw diets are also highly digestible, which means the
waste is more real waste and is more likely to be undesirable. Stool
eating without extenuating circumstances like illness or learned
behavior is not necessarily terrible except for its lack of social
acceptability. I suggest you move your boy PRONTO to raw food for
healthy, high quality, easily digestible nutrition and then focus on
the stool eating.

> Also, I had asked about chicken. I had fed him cooked chicken
twice in the past and both times he threw up. Is is possible he is
allergic to chicken?
*****
Yes but his reaction does not necessarily indicate that. Raw protein
is just not the same animal as cooked (homecooked or kibblized).

I want to feed him some raw chicken, last night and this a.m. he
had cut up london broil raw. He's already crapped twice this morning,
and I caught him eating the second one.
*****
Did you feed the chicken and beef with kibble or alone? Were his
bowels still full of kibble? How much did you feed? What were the
stools like? For now, til we get to the root of whatever this is, I
recommend two actions. One, be there when he poops so that you can
immediately clean up after him and two, do not make clean up a noisy
keep-away sort of production. You may have inadvertently trained him
to beat you to it.

You are not likely to see the dramatic change you hope for. You may
have to intervene for some time before he gets the kibble out of his
system, and you will need time to tweak his new diet for maximum
nutrition and minimal stool. In the meantime, you should take
comfort in knowing that a good species appropriate diet beats all.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (14)
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5d. Re: another Question?
Posted by: "Lyse Garant" lyse_garant@yahoo.com lyse_garant
Date: Sun Jul 8, 2007 10:06 am ((PDT))

***EDITED BY MODERATOR: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES OR RISK DELETION.***

Chris O., Thank you very much. Last night's raw beef, as well as this morning's was mixed with kibble, I was afraid to make too drastic and sudden a change. He did a third doot already today, outside of course, and didn't eat it because I was there...it was lighter in color than usual, and loose. His doots are usually darkish and well formed. I was feeding him Nutro Natural Choice Lamb & Rice, mixed with canned food of the same brand. I want to go raw, and plan to buy some chicken today. I hope the chicken stays down. Also, he didn't have any bone with his raw beef. Tonight, should I just go all raw? Or keep a bit of kibble in the mix until he switches over. What can I expect if I go completely raw tonight? Should I stay with beef since that's what I started with, or can I mix it already with chicken and a bit of bone? Thank you VERY MUCH for your help!!!
Lyse & Guinness

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6.1. Re: Fish
Posted by: "Bearhair" bearhair@spamcop.net bearhair61
Date: Sun Jul 8, 2007 7:18 am ((PDT))

Michele wrote:

>The fish thing did not go well by either dogs or cats any suggestions on how I can slip it
>in...just a little added with meat meal perhaps?

They don't have to be fed fish, but if you'd like to, then sure, nothing like
a little tuna slipped into one's steak tartare!

What does "did not go well" mean? If they sniffed and walked away, leave it
for 15-20 minutes, then put it back in the fridge until the next mealtime,
with no snacks in between. Offer it again. Repeat until they eat it.

Lora
Evanston, IL

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6.2. Re: Fish
Posted by: "Maiakitas@aol.com" Maiakitas@aol.com maiakitas
Date: Sun Jul 8, 2007 8:28 am ((PDT))

Michele,

I am new to raw feeding myself, but just started adding fish as my next
protein after chicken. I first gave them a little butterfish and my bitch Bailey
ate everything but the head, yuck, and my male Beau just played with his. (He
did have a good time) The next piece was a bigger whole fish. Again, Bailey ate
the whole thing for breakfast and Beau just looked at his. I tried cutting it
open, extra yuck, and he didn't eat it. Next I seared lightly on both sides
with some garlic, and he ate the whole thing.

Perhaps a searing it a touch, might help. Just my 1/2 cents. :o)

Regards,
Carla

**************************************
See what's free at

http://www.aol.com.

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6.3. Re: Fish
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jul 8, 2007 8:40 am ((PDT))

"mob1043" <ynotbeastar@...> wrote:
>
> The fish thing did not go well by either dogs or cats any suggestions
on how I can slip it
> in...just a little added with meat meal perhaps?
*****
Fish is not necessarily welcomed; don't take it personally. Neither
species needs fish so if you're offering a good amount of protein
variety you should not despair if your pets refuse fish.

Yes, adding a little fish to a meal you know to be successful might
help.
Chris O

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7a. Re: dental problems
Posted by: "Yuliya Brown" yuliya_brown@yahoo.com yuliya_brown
Date: Sun Jul 8, 2007 8:09 am ((PDT))

MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS, PLEASE!!

> It sounds as though you have been feeding only
> chicken, and are now switching
> over to only beef . . . is that correct?
------------
>What do you mean she is having a problem digesting
the chicken? >That isn't something that usually
happens after this long on the diet.
-------------
She's been eating mostly chicken for last 8 months or
so, with ocasional venison and tripe. I used to give
her pork feet at first but then I stoped for some
reason. right now I have in stock beef, beef liver,
beef heart, green tripe, pork heart and lamb necks.
She likes beef and tripe and venison. not to crazy
about liver, wouldn't eat it from the bowl, but ate
few pieces from my hand. What happened with chicken
is the following: she would have an occasional
diarreah after the chicken, not always but enought to
destory rug and carpet in few rooms. two weeks or so
ago, she ate chicken and it shoot right through her I
had to get up in the middle of the night and clean the
carpet ( not a big fan ot if) then few days later it
happened again. So I thought that maybe something
wrong with that chicken so I tossed it out and got a
new one, same thing happened. then few days later I
came home and there was diarreah again on the floor
with several blood stains. I got freaked out and took
her to the vet, who said that she has a bacterial
infection, very common in dogs usually from eating
feces, but it could be from the chicken as well. My
dog was eating tonns of grass, so vet thought that she
could've gotten that bacteria with the grass. anyway,
antibiotics put the end to this. After that my dog
wouldn't even touch the chicken, even after being
hungry for two days. so I tossed it out and switched
to beef and left over of venison, hadn't had a problem
yet. Hopefully won't.
Also, what I give her to chew on is the dried ears and
some other things that made out of the animal skin
that you can buy in the pet store and occasionally
treats from the pet store, but she only gets it on
occasion after bath or grooming.

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7b. Re: dental problems
Posted by: "Yuliya Brown" yuliya_brown@yahoo.com yuliya_brown
Date: Sun Jul 8, 2007 8:10 am ((PDT))

____________________________________________________________________________________
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7c. Re: dental problems
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Jul 8, 2007 9:12 am ((PDT))

Hi, Yuliya!
The problem is probably not with the chicken, it may have been
enhanced with salt solution or flavorings or seasonings. some dogs
have trouble with that. NPs, just check the label of any chicken you
want to buy first.
It could be too much bone, for this individual dog, on a steady diet
of chicken, especially if it was mostly backs, necks or other bony parts.
It could also be that the chewies you have been giving her are not
agreeing with her. These items are cooked, and have additives and
flavorings that aren't good for her. I would only give raw/frozen
chicken feet, pig ears, etc. Not processed ones from the pet store.
Pork feet should be OK, but she may get loose stools or diarrhea from
them, they tend to be bony and fatty, and you might want to limit how
much she chews on them daily.
If she has an irritated gut, with or without blood in the stool, you
can soothe it with a fast of a day and some doses of Slippery Elm Bark
Powder. You can get that at a health food store.
Giving her larger parts to work on will help clean her teeth. Its not
just the bone that provides dental health, but the action of tearing
and shearing meat, gristle, etc. from Big Food, too.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> She's been eating mostly chicken for last 8 months or
> so, with occasional venison and tripe. I used to give
> her pork feet at first but then I stopped for some
> reason. right now I have in stock beef, beef liver,
> beef heart, green tripe, pork heart and lamb necks.
> She likes beef and tripe and venison. not to crazy
> about liver, wouldn't eat it from the bowl, but ate
> few pieces from my hand. What happened with chicken
> is the following: she would have an occasional
> diarrhea after the chicken, not always but enough to
> destroy rug and carpet in few rooms. two weeks or so
> ago, she ate chicken and it shoot right through her I
> had to get up in the middle of the night and clean the
> carpet ( not a big fan of it) then few days later it
> happened again. So I thought that maybe something
> wrong with that chicken so I tossed it out and got a
> new one, same thing happened. then few days later I
> came home and there was diarrhea again on the floor
> with several blood stains. I got freaked out and took
> her to the vet, who said that she has a bacterial
> infection, very common in dogs usually from eating
> feces, but it could be from the chicken as well. My
> dog was eating tons of grass, so vet thought that she
> could've gotten that bacteria with the grass. Anyway,
> antibiotics put the end to this. After that my dog
> wouldn't even touch the chicken, even after being
> hungry for two days. so I tossed it out and switched
> to beef and left over of venison, hadn't had a problem
> yet. Hopefully won't.
> Also, what I give her to chew on is the dried ears and
> some other things that made out of the animal skin
> that you can buy in the pet store and occasionally
> treats from the pet store, but she only gets it on
> occasion after bath or grooming.

Messages in this topic (7)
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7d. Re: dental problems
Posted by: "Yuliya Brown" yuliya_brown@yahoo.com yuliya_brown
Date: Sun Jul 8, 2007 10:04 am ((PDT))

> Giving her larger parts to work on will help clean
> her teeth. Its not
> just the bone that provides dental health, but the
> action of tearing
> and shearing meat, gristle, etc. from Big Food, too.
that's what I was thinking too, give her larger parts
to chew on, the only concern I have is that if I give
her more than what she can eat at once then what will
I do with the rest? it's so hot outside I worry that
the food will go bad. She eats outside on the
backyard, I didn't feel comfortable with her drugging
raw meets around the house, I have small kids and
husband whose immune system is not very good.
thakn you for your answers.
Yuliya

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Messages in this topic (7)
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8a. Getting ready to take the plunge!
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jul 8, 2007 8:25 am ((PDT))

Lori Poirier <chaparraltrail@...> wrote:
>
> Posted by: "erica" ericagordon@...:
> Once Sophie finishes her kibble we will be switching
> her to raw! We know not to mix the 2!
>
> Why would it be a problem to mix them?
*****
Kibble dumbs down the nutritional value of a raw meal and raw food
cannot save kibble. There is nothing to be gained from feeding kibble
once the commitment has been made to feeding a species appropriate
diet, except perhaps the dubious savings achieved by feeding through
remaining kibble.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
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8b. Getting ready to take the plunge!
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jul 8, 2007 8:33 am ((PDT))

"seaneboyee" <seaneboyee@...> wrote:
>
> I believe mixing the two is bad because of the differences in
digestion.
*****
The sad fact is kibble and raw meat generally digest okay together.
This reality seems to be enough to justify--for some people--the
practice. The fact that kibble is in its own right wrong appears to be
lost on them. There are many people who add raw meat (and other raw
foods that are not species appropriate) to kibble and feel virtuous for
having done so.

Digestive distress is likely to occur when edible bone is fed with
kibble.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
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9. WHOOO HOO!!!
Posted by: "Linda Edgington" lindagail849@yahoo.com lindagail849
Date: Sun Jul 8, 2007 8:40 am ((PDT))

Gizzy is eating his first thigh!!!!!!!!!!! He just looked at it for a bit and now is eating it. I cut a little bit of the meat off and gave to sass. But he's eating it. I also cut the skin off, do I want to be doing this???? Will he eat that bone, or is that too big for him? (toy poodle 5#). He should at least chew on it a bit? How long should it be left out for him. He is fed in his kennel. I suppose as long as he's chewing, huh? (that was kinda a blond question :} )

Linda

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10. new with many questions
Posted by: "faithk99" faithkohn@gmail.com faithk99
Date: Sun Jul 8, 2007 10:01 am ((PDT))

We have 3 dogs plus 2 visiting dogs on a regular basis. We switched to
the barf diet and as I read more, I am finding more information on raw
feeding instead. From this list it seems that raw feeding is better
for than the barf diet. I don't know enough about either diet. Could
someone explain the pros and cons or differences between the two diets?

I also read online that raw feeding is bad due to the bacteria and
digestive problems it could cause your pet. Is this true?

My feeling and instict tells me raw feeding is the way to go, but my
lack of knowledge makes me fearful that maybe my pets are not getting
proper nutrition or maybe they would be hurt in some way.

Please help.

Thank you,

Faith

Messages in this topic (1)
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11a. Re: Newbie - introduction - bought chicken - what to do with it?
Posted by: "Patrice Quinn" patrice@patricequinn.com patrice_quinn
Date: Sun Jul 8, 2007 10:02 am ((PDT))

***EDITED BY MODERATOR. TRIM YOUR MESSAGES OR RISK LOSING THEM.***

"...I have been able to source from local organic farmers..."

Hi Kerry, this is Patrice in Lake Havasu City. Could you let me know how to
get in touch with the organic farmers you're dealing with? I'm wondering if
they would ship to me or help me find someone closer to me to order from.
Are you as shocked as I am at how the dogs have taken to raw? It's only
been two weeks for us but I still can't get over their immediate joy at
prey" feeding. My "kids" are are three little 10 lb. dachsies, how about
you? Take care, Kerry, and thanks,

Patrice
LHC, AZ

Messages in this topic (4)
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12. Moral Support and Feedback
Posted by: "meg_helmes" mhelmes@gmail.com meg_helmes
Date: Sun Jul 8, 2007 10:03 am ((PDT))

Hello everyone!
I have been raw feeding my 2 1/2 (ish) pit bull mix (52#) for about 4
weeks now, and she really loves it. I have been very lucky in that she
will eat anything with a little coaxing, and has adapted well to
several different proteins. She started with chicken leg quarters, and
I then added pork (picnic roasts), which she readily eats, skin bone
and all. She has also been getting a ground beef/tripe mix that was a
gift from a wonderful friend (like everyone, we are on a tight budget,
so I was really pumped to get beef & tripe! I feed it mostly frozen to
make it a little more work). She eats frozen liver and kidney like a
champ. I have been combining one chicken back with a big chuck or pork
or kidney to make a healthier meal that still fits the budget. She has
also gotten big turkey necks (with added meaty meat). I think I am
doing pretty good on variety and content one month in, right? I've
been reading everything going through the list and make good use of
the archives as much as possible.

Well, my pup is sick. She has a raging UTI (she is peeing blood and
obviously miserable when she tries to go). Of course, critters love to
get sick on Sundays, right? She won't eat, and a little while ago she
threw up a little in the kitchen... I know you can all relate to
feeling of being a bad parent when your pet gets sick. This is her
second UTI this year (she had at least three last year). I was really
hoping the raw would help with this, and it still may, I know its
early. Her skin problems (staph & allergies problems) keep flaring up
as well. I am trying not to waiver on feeding raw. This is what my dog
needs, right? She just looks so sad and unhappy right now, and this
is the first time she's vomited when she's had a UTI.

I just need a little diet feedback, and maybe a little cheerleading?

Meg
Ruby (the wonderpit who looks so sad!)

Messages in this topic (1)
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Feed Pets Raw Food

Sunday, July 8, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11776

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