[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11787

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Just Started Raw - Advice, Tips, Comments?
From: Tina Berry

2a. Re: question about chicken wings
From: Andrea
2b. Re: question about chicken wings
From: Mike Devlin
2c. Re: question about chicken wings
From: Margaret Martell
2d. Re: question about chicken wings
From: Mike Devlin

3a. Re: Feeding raw bravo food, how much to feed exactly?
From: costrowski75

4. Small Dogs, Frozen Food
From: Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)

5a. Re: Fermented stomach grass
From: Jen

6a. Re: EPI
From: Andrea Bryan Hoss
6b. Re: EPI
From: K9FindM@aol.com

7a. Getting ready to take the plunge!
From: Jen
7b. Getting ready to take the plunge!
From: costrowski75
7c. Getting ready to take the plunge!
From: brutus_buckley

8a. Re: Feeding Giant breed puppy
From: Angela Brown
8b. Re: Feeding Giant breed puppy
From: Katie Baker
8c. Re: Feeding Giant breed puppy
From: Laura Atkinson
8d. Re: Feeding Giant breed puppy
From: costrowski75
8e. Re: Feeding Giant breed puppy
From: brutus_buckley

9a. What is "Trim"
From: cresco299
9b. Re: What is "Trim"
From: costrowski75
9c. Re: What is "Trim"
From: cresco299

10a. Bone shards - questions
From: Courtney
10b. Re: Bone shards - questions
From: costrowski75
10c. Re: Bone shards - questions
From: brutus_buckley

11. what is correct amount of food to feed
From: alluponjanice

Messages
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1a. Re: Just Started Raw - Advice, Tips, Comments?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:35 am ((PDT))

They poop way less; maybe once a day - if they poop more then it usually
means you are over feeding. Yes, the color will vary, darker meats, darker
poop. Organs make for runny dark poop if given too much. Bone will firm it
up.
--
Tina Berry
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Re: question about chicken wings
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:40 am ((PDT))

That depends on how much is a bunch. If it is a bag of them I would
just make myself some hotwings. If it is a whole lot of them (20lbs or
so) I would get imaginative in how I could not waste them. Maybe pack
ground beef around them and freeze or something. If you have a cat,
they might like them. I wouldn't feed wings as is to a medium dog
though.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "emdeefa" <mdevlin@...> wrote:
> My question though is that last week I got a bunch of
> chicken wings that I had intended to feed to him, but I have seen a
> couple posts since I purchased them that said chicken wings are not
> the best thing to feed since they are so small, and might be swallowed
> whole and cause a choking/obstruction hazard.

Messages in this topic (5)
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2b. Re: question about chicken wings
Posted by: "Mike Devlin" mdevlin@aisle10.net emdeefa
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:12 am ((PDT))

Its only about 6lbs or so, now I am thinking I have been cutting up the
whole chicken way too small. aside from like a the drum sticks, i think all
the pieces were probably not much bigger than the chicken wings. The whole
bone part has me completely scared. Some of the bones in steak and pork can
break their teeth?

Thanks
Mike

On 7/10/07, Andrea <poketmouse45@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> That depends on how much is a bunch. If it is a bag of them I would
> just make myself some hotwings. If it is a whole lot of them (20lbs or
> so) I would get imaginative in how I could not waste them. Maybe pack
> ground beef around them and freeze or something. If you have a cat,
> they might like them. I wouldn't feed wings as is to a medium dog
> though.
>
> Andrea
>
>

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Messages in this topic (5)
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2c. Re: question about chicken wings
Posted by: "Margaret Martell" zahrammm1@yahoo.com zahrammm1
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:03 pm ((PDT))

Mike Devlin <mdevlin@aisle10.net> wrote: Its only about 6lbs or so, now I am thinking I have been cutting up the
whole chicken way too small. aside from like a the drum sticks, i think all
the pieces were probably not much bigger than the chicken wings. The whole
bone part has me completely scared. Some of the bones in steak and pork can
break their teeth?
********
Mike -
Chicken wings are too boney and too small to feed all by themselves. I'd cook the wings for myself. You can feed wings, just make sure they're still attached to the bird. Feed half a chicken or a chicken quarter, that's probably the smallest you want to go.
Feeding bones can be scary for newbies. I know I was scared when I first started, but it's all good. Dogs are made to eat these, as well as lots and lots of meat. The benefits are incredible once the feeling of being scared goes away (and it will, if you stick with the raw feeding).
Steak, or beef, bones are considered "wreck" bones and I wouldn't feed them. They can cause breakage-hence the "wreck" nickname. Pork bones are quite edible in my opinion. My dog eats any kind of pork bone no problem; keep in mind that these bones are imbedded in a bunch of meat, though.
Hope this helps a little bit.
Margaret & Zahra

---------------------------------
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always stay connected to friends.

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Messages in this topic (5)
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2d. Re: question about chicken wings
Posted by: "Mike Devlin" mdevlin@aisle10.net emdeefa
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:18 pm ((PDT))

I was amazed at the night and day difference after I switched to raw. My dog
hated eating kibble since I got him 6 months ago. It got to the point where
I was playing little games with the food to get him to eat, like making
trails on the ground out of the food for him to follow, and he also normally
had pretty loose stools on good days, diarrhea on bad ones, but he took to
eating raw immediately, no more loose stools and he runs to the back door
every morning and when I get home from work because he cant wait to eat.

I am still uncomfortable with the whole concept of the food being raw and
especially the bones, mostly because of it being hammered into my head as I
grew up how bad it is for a dog to eat a chicken bone (cooked or not), but I
felt like I was doing more harm knowingly letting him eat kibble.

I'll stick to the chicken quarters, or just cutting the whole chicken into
larger sections, and maybe try some pork

This list has been an immense amount of help and support

- Thanks
Mike

On 7/10/07, Margaret Martell <zahrammm1@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Mike -
> Chicken wings are too boney and too small to feed all by themselves. I'd
> cook the wings for myself. You can feed wings, just make sure they're still
> attached to the bird. Feed half a chicken or a chicken quarter, that's
> probably the smallest you want to go.
> Feeding bones can be scary for newbies. I know I was scared when I first
> started, but it's all good. Dogs are made to eat these, as well as lots and
> lots of meat. The benefits are incredible once the feeling of being scared
> goes away (and it will, if you stick with the raw feeding).
> Steak, or beef, bones are considered "wreck" bones and I wouldn't feed
> them. They can cause breakage-hence the "wreck" nickname. Pork bones are
> quite edible in my opinion. My dog eats any kind of pork bone no problem;
> keep in mind that these bones are imbedded in a bunch of meat, though.
> Hope this helps a little bit.
> Margaret & Zahra
>
>

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Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. Re: Feeding raw bravo food, how much to feed exactly?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:57 am ((PDT))

shefy gupta <shefy7@...> wrote:
i don't use the ones that are mixed in with other stuff like veggies
and stuff. he only gets meat or meat with bone/organ.
*****
Well, it disappoints me to learn that you are not feeding whole meats
and whole meaty bones. You are doing your Snowy a disservice
physically, mentally and with regard to dental hygiene.

You do not--ever--resolve issues by avoiding them. They just sit
there, looming ever larger, ever more ominious, gathering intensity
and malignancy. Your concerns can be be sensibly and reasonably
address by feeding meaty bones that are appropriate for Snowy. Not
bones that are too small, not bones that are too bony, but bones (to
quote Goldilocks) that are just right. The more danger you ascribe
to lovely species appropriate bones, the more impossible they will
become for you.

And it will be all your doing.

Food aggression is not about food, or at least not just about food.
Whether you feed whole food or kibble or something in between you
must deal proactively with the aggression issues. This is not a
normal, healthy response and again, you are not doing Snowy any
favors by allowing it to go unaddressed.

I urge you to seek professional help with Snowy's aggression, and
give serious consideration to chronic health issues that may be at
the root of the problem. I know you have posted to RawChat; that
would be a fine place for further discussion.

Good luck to you and Snowy.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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4. Small Dogs, Frozen Food
Posted by: "Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)" carolyn.garnaas@siemens.com carolyn.garnaas
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:58 am ((PDT))

I sent my five pound Toy Poodle into convulsions by feeding her very
cold (not frozen) chopped raw chicken. It turns out that she was able to
eat it so fast (chopped goes down faster) in such an amount that it
drastically lowered her body temperature. This sent her into
convulsions.

It's not that the really little dogs have "issues" with frozen or very
cold food; it's true for all dogs, and humans, too, that if the body
temperature is lowered drastically, convulsions will result. So, now if
I am going to feed her I make sure the food has reached close to room
temperature first. Overkill on my part, for sure.

This frozen food mini-issue is not going to be of any interest to people
with dogs who weigh 10 - 15 pounds or more. However, it is of intense
interest to the owners of tiny dogs. The convulsions were terrifying
(for me) and lasted for around 70 seconds.

The good news is, no damage was done, at least, none that I can see.
Yippee!

Carolyn J. Garnaas And Molly; Toy Poodle, Athlete, Model, Intellectual

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Messages in this topic (1)
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5a. Re: Fermented stomach grass
Posted by: "Jen" jboydmorin@gmail.com choirgirl_21
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:18 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Lyse Garant <lyse_garant@...> wrote:
>
> Hey, at least you're trying! People here shouldn't be so hard on you.

No kidding! Like I said when I got berated for buying the same exact
stuff, I'm willing to pay a couple of bucks for a treat for my dogs or
to try something once.

Anyway, my actual experience was that my dogs wouldn't eat it, go
figure. I wouldn't worry about the vomiting though - like someone
else said, a lot of dogs vomit grass. I'd just pass it on to another
dog owner who might like to have it, or pitch it.

Jen

Messages in this topic (7)
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6a. Re: EPI
Posted by: "Andrea Bryan Hoss" andreabryanhoss@yahoo.com andreabryanhoss
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:18 pm ((PDT))

Just wondering if anyone on this lists knows much about this
deficiency - especially at what age do you see it?? I know GSD's are
the worst for it.
>

>

Maria;
I have an 18 month old GSD with EPI. I would get your dog off of
every and any cooked or kibbled food PRONTO. IF your dog has EPI,
grains are like poison for him. I switched my girl to prey model raw
b/c of her EPI, and the difference has been dramatic ---for good!

Your dog is at the perfect age for EPI :(, usually occurring btwn
9months - 2 years. The classic symptoms are diarrhea (moderate
to "cannon-butt"), HUGE appetite but actually losing weight (b/c the
pancreas is diseased and cannot digest/absorb the nutrients and
calories he needs. Your dog seems to be having a severe reaction to
something; I've never heard of EPI being this dramatic (mine behaved
quite normally, except she looked like a scarecrow dog & yes,
massive, explosive diarrhea). That being said, every dog is
different; let us know what the results of the test are.

There seems to be a lot of yo-yoing with your dog's diet, which is
not going to help matters, especially swinging from kibble to raw&
back again. Try sticking to a single protein source such as raw
chicken. Also, do a search for EPI, there are several articles, one
of them is

http://www.regalwise.com/health/pid.html.

Good luck, and please keep us posted!

Andrea, Laika & Squirt
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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6b. Re: EPI
Posted by: "K9FindM@aol.com" K9FindM@aol.com bctwister03
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:35 pm ((PDT))

There is no yo-yoing, just trying to get back from him having severe hooks and an infection.? He has been on kibble and raw from day one. If we go to PR events and eventually, deployments, I cannot carry raw with me.? Though everytime I go to feed raw again (since he was sick in June), he is having a severe reaction - the only elements are uncooked and higher protein.? My understanding with EPI is that you need the enzymes on the food to support the gut in digesting and allowing your dog to take in all of the nutrients.? He is on a very high quality kibble, plus I have several other dogs on this with raw and they do just fine.? Did you have your dogs blood tested?? And if so, what does it show?

Maria

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrea Bryan Hoss <andreabryanhoss@yahoo.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 3:34 pm
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: EPI

Just wondering if anyone on this lists knows much about this
deficiency - especially at what age do you see it?? I know GSD's are
the worst for it.
>

>

Maria;
I have an 18 month old GSD with EPI. I would get your dog off of
every and any cooked or kibbled food PRONTO. IF your dog has EPI,
grains are like poison for him. I switched my girl to prey model raw
b/c of her EPI, and the difference has been dramatic ---for good!

Your dog is at the perfect age for EPI :(, usually occurring btwn
9months - 2 years. The classic symptoms are diarrhea (moderate
to "cannon-butt"), HUGE appetite but actually losing weight (b/c the
pancreas is diseased and cannot digest/absorb the nutrients and
calories he needs. Your dog seems to be having a severe reaction to
something; I've never heard of EPI being this dramatic (mine behaved
quite normally, except she looked like a scarecrow dog & yes,
massive, explosive diarrhea). That being said, every dog is
different; let us know what the results of the test are.

There seems to be a lot of yo-yoing with your dog's diet, which is
not going to help matters, especially swinging from kibble to raw&
back again. Try sticking to a single protein source such as raw
chicken. Also, do a search for EPI, there are several articles, one
of them is http://www.regalwise.com/health/pid.html.

Good luck, and please keep us posted!

Andrea, Laika & Squirt
>

________________________________________________________________________
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Messages in this topic (4)
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7a. Getting ready to take the plunge!
Posted by: "Jen" jboydmorin@gmail.com choirgirl_21
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:20 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Lori Poirier <chaparraltrail@...>
wrote:
I work very full time, and am not committed to a full raw diet,
especially since most of my time off is spent backpacking with my
dog...where I am eating "human kibble" AKA dehydrated food...cuz wet
food spoils.

Hey Lori, I camp/hike/backpack a lot myself and am quite familiar with
the dehydrated food you're referring to. But calling it human kibble
isn't an appropriate analogy. The difference is, dog kibble contains
grains that are not species appropriate and are unhealthy for your dog.

I'm not sure if that's what you were getting at, or just that feeding
raw on backpacking trips would be hard. If you meant the latter,
search for my recent post on this. Kibble is actually heavy, and
there are lighter-weight options than kibble for a raw fed dog on a
backpacking trip!

FYI, I also work full time - once you do the initial research to find
good supply options, feeding raw is really not more time consuming
than feeding kibble.
>
> Isn't there something to be gained from some raw meat, for those
of us who are not going to be feeding a full raw diet? I am asking
because I don't want to give partial raw, if it would be harmful, and
I doubt my current lifestyle would allow full raw feeding.
>
I think there is something to be gained from feeding raw meaty bones
on occasion, primarily the teeth cleaning benefits and all the other
health benefits that come from that as a result.

Having said that, I would encourage you to explore your current
perceptions of feeding raw and see if it's really as difficult or
time-consuming (or expensive or dangerous or whatever might be holding
you back) as you think. While you'll hear the moderators say this
isn't a forum for discussing whether or not to feed raw, you can find
the answers to any concerns you might have addressed here by searching
the archives.

My own personal note, I fed morning kibble, evening chk backs for at
least a year to my female. When I finally made the switch completely
to raw I was dumbfounded at how easy it was and have always regretted
not doing it sooner.

Jen

Messages in this topic (15)
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7b. Getting ready to take the plunge!
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:42 pm ((PDT))

"Jen" <jboydmorin@...> wrote:
> My own personal note, I fed morning kibble, evening chk backs for at
> least a year to my female. When I finally made the switch completely
> to raw I was dumbfounded at how easy it was and have always regretted
> not doing it sooner.
>
> Jen
*****
Jen, this is a fine post. Thank you for taking the time to put it
together.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (15)
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7c. Getting ready to take the plunge!
Posted by: "brutus_buckley" brutus_buckley@yahoo.com brutus_buckley
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:15 pm ((PDT))

//My common sense answer to this PLEASE FEEL FREE to feed a partial raw
diet...OK all of you experts and fanatics, who of you will deny that a
partial raw diet is worse than a 0% raw diet????//

***One feeding a 'mix' may incorrectly beleive that the effects of
feeding kibble are negated by 'supplementing' with raw meat. I know a
few people who feed/think this way. It's like saying it's OK to eat Big-
Macs everyday as long as you throw in a salad. It's a slippery slope.
Also, raw and kibble digest at different rates, potentially causing
digestive upset.

Though I am no expert or fanatic, I would not recommend a 'partial'
diet anymore than I would recommend an all-kibble diet; I do not
endorse kibble in any amount.

-Renee W.

Messages in this topic (15)
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8a. Re: Feeding Giant breed puppy
Posted by: "Angela Brown" irisbarbata@yahoo.com irisbarbata
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:51 pm ((PDT))

Hi I have a 13 month old English Mastiff who was raised and still is
on raw. I totally disagree with thinking it's the same as raising any
other breed of dog - this is simply false. They should have a lower
protein level then other breeds during growth to avoid them growing
too fast. i.e. NOT lots and lots of meat and a little bit of bone.

Angie Brown

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> >From: "nathaliebiron" <nathaliebiron@...>
>
>
> >Hi everyone!!! Can you give me some advices. I'll have my mastiff
> >puppy next year and I want to be ready !! Is somebody who have a giant
> >breed, how did you start, what did you give your puppy (ex.: chicken
> >neck, chicken leg... etc)
>
> Same way you would feed any other puppy...lots and lots of meat, a
little
> edible bone and a bit of organs! Easy!!!
>
> A couple of recent weaning/puppy feeding messages.....
> http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/135757
> http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/135847
>
> Do a search in the archives where you will find lots to occupy you
for the
> next few months!! :))
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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8b. Re: Feeding Giant breed puppy
Posted by: "Katie Baker" declansmama@gmail.com katherinebaker2
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:35 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Angela Brown" <irisbarbata@...>
wrote:
> They should have a lower
> protein level then other breeds during growth to avoid them growing
> too fast. i.e. NOT lots and lots of meat and a little bit of bone.
>
> Angie Brown

Lol, then what would you suggest Angie? The poster is just excited and
wants some recommendations on what to feed. An answer like yours could
cause me to spend hours looking for something to back it up.

Katie

Messages in this topic (8)
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8c. Re: Feeding Giant breed puppy
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:43 pm ((PDT))

Puppies is puppies. The increased growth problems and restriction of
protein you're basing this on is, I'll bet, based on crap-inabag puppy
raising.

They need the same thing adults do, some bone, lotsa meat and some
organ. I'd hazard a guess that it's even MORE important for puppies
than adults not to overdo the bone, as then they're lacking a lot of
the nutrients in meat that they need to grow up healthy.

Fast growth isn't an issue on raw. The lovely, natural rate of growth
is supported by a natural, raw diet.

For your new puppy, you'll know what to approximate for an adult
weight, feed about 3% of that a day, divided into as many meals as
you're going to feed (2-3 depending on the age you get him/her). I
imagine hacking up a chicken is going to be the easiest way for you to
start.

On 7/10/07, Angela Brown <irisbarbata@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi I have a 13 month old English Mastiff who was raised and still is
> on raw. I totally disagree with thinking it's the same as raising any
> other breed of dog - this is simply false. They should have a lower
> protein level then other breeds during growth to avoid them growing
> too fast. i.e. NOT lots and lots of meat and a little bit of bone.
>
> Angie Brown
>

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.saveourdogs.net
"Is that soap they're brainwashing you with environmentally safe?"

Messages in this topic (8)
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8d. Re: Feeding Giant breed puppy
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:49 pm ((PDT))

"Angela Brown" <irisbarbata@...> wrote:
>
> Hi I have a 13 month old English Mastiff who was raised and still is
> on raw. I totally disagree with thinking it's the same as raising any
> other breed of dog - this is simply false. They should have a lower
> protein level then other breeds during growth to avoid them growing
> too fast. i.e. NOT lots and lots of meat and a little bit of bone.
*****
Angela, you can disagree all you want--and grow your pups any way you
see fit--but I promise you: you cannot feed a healthy dog too much
protein. It is NOT protein that wreaks havoc with the development of
large breed pups. It is too much food overall (resulting in fatty
pups), or the wrong amount of calcium at the wrong age, or
inappropriate exercise, or genetics. Or a combination. But protein,
being one of two nutritional building blocks of all dogs, should never
be stinted on.

The myth of "too much protein" is laid to rest in many sources. At the
very least check out http://rawfed.com for more information.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
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8e. Re: Feeding Giant breed puppy
Posted by: "brutus_buckley" brutus_buckley@yahoo.com brutus_buckley
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:36 pm ((PDT))

// Hi I have a 13 month old English Mastiff who was raised and still is
> on raw. I totally disagree with thinking it's the same as raising any
> other breed of dog - this is simply false. //

***Regardless of the breed, a proper raw diet will allow puppies to
develop and grow at a normal rate. Many of the health issues commonly
associated with rapid growth stem from feeding "puppy food." Individual
dogs may have unique dietary needs; that one breed of dog has unique
nutritional requirements over another is, as you put it, simply false.

-Renee W.

Messages in this topic (8)
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9a. What is "Trim"
Posted by: "cresco299" gentry.jeffrey@yahoo.com cresco299
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:00 pm ((PDT))

I was just reviewing the archives and noticed that a lot of people
feed Beef Trim, Pork Trim, Lamb Trim etc.

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is "Trim"? Is it a special cut
or just the overall trimmings from the animal?

Thanks!

Jeff
Cresco, PA

Messages in this topic (3)
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9b. Re: What is "Trim"
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:06 pm ((PDT))

"cresco299" <gentry.jeffrey@...> wrote:
>
> I was just reviewing the archives and noticed that a lot of people
> feed Beef Trim, Pork Trim, Lamb Trim etc.
>
> Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is "Trim"? Is it a special cut
> or just the overall trimmings from the animal?
*****
It's just plain old uncomplicated, unappreciated, generally inexpensive
flesh, fat, connective tissue and simetimes even skin trimmed away from
the stuff that's meant for "human" consumption. Sometimes it's flesh
cut away from a bone, sometimes it's aged, dirty or otherwise icky
flesh trimmed off the pristine meat below. Sometimes it's fat cut away
to produce an even "lean" layer of fat. Sometimes it's untidy meat
trimmed awa6y to make the final presentation cut look with all that
money.

Venison trim from a busy or careless butcher can be a major socre in a
raw feeder's life!
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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9c. Re: What is "Trim"
Posted by: "cresco299" gentry.jeffrey@yahoo.com cresco299
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:46 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:

> Venison trim from a busy or careless butcher can be a major socre in a
> raw feeder's life!
> Chris O
>

Good to know! I'll keep my eyes peeled come hunting season.

Thanks-
Jeff

Messages in this topic (3)
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10a. Bone shards - questions
Posted by: "Courtney" courtneyredhead@yahoo.com courtneyredhead
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:35 pm ((PDT))

Hi all,

I'm still fairly new at raw feeding. We've been at it for 3 months. I am concerned about the
little, sharp shards of bone I'm finding in my dog's stools. They're smaller than a dime but
bigger than the eraser on a pencil.

Should I change their RMBs to something other than beef ribs, pork necks, chicken?

I'm perplexed and need some input.

Thanks so much!
Courtney

Messages in this topic (3)
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10b. Re: Bone shards - questions
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:14 pm ((PDT))

"Courtney" <courtneyredhead@...> wrote:

We've been at it for 3 months. I am concerned about the
> little, sharp shards of bone I'm finding in my dog's stools.
They're smaller than a dime but
> bigger than the eraser on a pencil.
*****
How often are you finding these? Are they immediately visible or are
you poking through the stools like a safari tracker? Do they appear
after all bone-in meals? How much bone are you feeding? Similarly,
how much meat are you feeding? Do these bone bits bother your dogs,
or just you?

> Should I change their RMBs to something other than beef ribs, pork
necks, chicken?
*****
My guess is, without further input from you, that you are feeding
bones with not nearly enough meat on them. Beef ribs are notorious
for being inadequately meaty. Pork necks are also classic examples
of bones with not enough meat on them. And with chicken, if you are
feeding parts like necks, wings and backs and you are NOT feeding the
meatier parts like breasts and leg/thighs, then yup, you've got
yourself a third repeat offender of too much dietary bone.

I'd bet if you were to add meat to each and every one of these bony
meals you'd stop seeing bony bits.

That said, unless your dogs are uncomfortable producing these bony
bits, it's not likely the bony bits are a problem.

Think back over the last three months, think about how much bone you
have fed. If you have recollections of lots of visible bone, if you
can't say that most of the meals have been meaty delights, then there
is an outstanding chance that you've been chintzing on your dogs'
meat intake.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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10c. Re: Bone shards - questions
Posted by: "brutus_buckley" brutus_buckley@yahoo.com brutus_buckley
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:27 pm ((PDT))

//Are they immediately visible or are
> you poking through the stools like a safari tracker? //

***LOL Chris; this is definitely the quote of the day.

-Renee W.

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11. what is correct amount of food to feed
Posted by: "alluponjanice" alluponjanice@yahoo.com alluponjanice
Date: Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:16 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE REMEMBER TO SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

I raw feed and Ive gotten so many different formulas on how much to
feed my dogs on a daily basis. help please!!!!!!!

Messages in this topic (1)
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