Feed Pets Raw Food: [rawfeeding] Digest Number 12344

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Question about freezer burned meat.
From: Andrea
1b. Re: Question about freezer burned meat.
From: Andrea

2a. Re: my dog isn't eating raw
From: Andrea
2b. Re: my dog isn't eating raw
From: vanevery0

3a. How to stop him from traveling around the house with food
From: jaygaughan
3b. Re: How to stop him from traveling around the house with food
From: Christine
3c. Re: How to stop him from traveling around the house with food
From: carnesbill
3d. Re: How to stop him from traveling around the house with food
From: mozookpr
3e. Re: How to stop him from traveling around the house with food
From: jaygaughan
3f. Re: How to stop him from traveling around the house with food
From: Sandee Lee

4a. Re: DEER MEAT, whats cws?
From: Jen S
4b. Re: DEER MEAT, whats cws?
From: costrowski75

5. Feeding venison
From: Kim Clark

6a. Re: am I feeding enough?
From: Ashley Myers
6b. Re: am I feeding enough?
From: Ashley Myers
6c. Re: am I feeding enough?
From: Ashley Myers

7. Re: Salmon oil versus capsules
From: Sai Simonson

8a. Tests done
From: Cathy Richmond
8b. Re: Tests done
From: costrowski75

9a. Re: evils of cooked meat
From: costrowski75

10.1. New to Raw
From: dijac9999
10.2. Re: New to Raw
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
10.3. Re: New to Raw
From: T Smith

11a. Mucosy & Bloody Stools
From: dmckenna43
11b. Re: Mucosy & Bloody Stools
From: Chia

Messages
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1a. Re: Question about freezer burned meat.
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 6:38 am ((PST))

> every time I put Holly on raw, she gets diarrhea.

Well, I guess the next hurdle would be getting her switched over
without loose stools. If you go slowly and feed conservatively your
dog should be perfectly capable of switching to raw without much
stomach upset or loose stools. Most of the time our newbie dogs end up
with squishy poo because of handler error.

When you tried switching her before what were you feeding, how much of
it and how often? I'm sure we can work things out so you two don't
have to run outside for her to poo every hour (=

> my freezer is in my sister's garage (plugged in of course) and has a
> bunch of meat in it...I just wondered if there was any reason to keep
> it.

Of course! Unless of course you want to write it off and send the meat
to me. I'm all for that too.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (8)
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1b. Re: Question about freezer burned meat.
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 6:47 am ((PST))

> If your dog always gets diarrhea from eating something, that's a
> sign that your dog shouldn't be eating it.

Well, there's a difference between real diarrhea and simple loose
stools. We're probably talking about loose stools here. It's more
likely a dog with loose stools ate too much new food, too much
fatty/rich food or too much food in general.

> Never had any problem with large cooked beef knuckle or shin
> bones that he has to gnaw on, they are not sharp.

Cooked bones should really never be fed to a dog. Cooking makes the
bone brittle and less digestible than it would be raw. Even raw I
wouldn't feed leg or knuckle bones of beef. The bone is far too dense
and can damage a dog's teeth. Now, raw beef feet, those are much safer
chew toys.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (8)
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2a. Re: my dog isn't eating raw
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 7:06 am ((PST))

> 1 hour later, he threw everything up. The vomit had a strong yellow
> color, which I have not seen previously. Possibly that's the color
> of the crackers. So, no brie or pate for awhile, and no crackers
> at all.

Yeah, I'd hold back on all table scrap treats for now until you guys
get farther along down the line. It can become pretty confusing
pretty fast if your pup has loose stools and you don't know whether
it was the chicken skin or the pate.

> Oftentimes I only give him a taste of the food, so that he has the
> culinary experience and doesn't feel left out, but isn't eating
> enough to cause him stomach upset.

Maybe instead you can keep bits of raw chicken breast on hand for the
times you feel like giving him a taste of food. That way he won't
feel deprived and you won't complicate the diet.

> BTW I've noticed he very much likes raw blood. He will lick a whole
> chicken thoroughly to get the blood off it.

If he's licking the food that's a good sign for sure. Maybe you can
cut ribbons into the meat so that he might get the idea to tear it
off and eat it as he's licking. Lots of dogs aren't really sure how
to eat raw at first and they start by licking it.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (19)
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2b. Re: my dog isn't eating raw
Posted by: "vanevery0" bvanevery@gmail.com vanevery0
Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 10:00 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
<sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
>
> >I strongly suspect that rendering processes are the source of his
allergies. It's not grain, there's no grain in the kibble I was giving
him. I bet "salmon meal" is the culprit.
>
> Well,I doubt it.

If you'd read up on the horrible industrial waste products that go
into any kind of rendered meat, you wouldn't. These factories ain't
picky about what they throw in the vat. And the "nice" dog food
companies don't own their own factories.

> I was wondering how kibble is made if grain was not used;the binder.

Sure, all these grainless dog foods use some kind of plant binder. So
he cold be allergic to the potato in Solid Gold or Evo, or the tapioca
in Raw Instinct. There could even be the same kinds of industrial
wastes in the plant products as in the animal products. Toxins are
toxins, and these factories don't run clean.

Cheers,
Brandon Van Every

Messages in this topic (19)
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3a. How to stop him from traveling around the house with food
Posted by: "jaygaughan" jaygaughan@yahoo.com jaygaughan
Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 7:36 am ((PST))

My little 9 week old Dane LOVES raw. This is my first dog eating raw
(wish I looked into this with my others). My breeder started him out
with ground turkey, chicken, and green tripe. Once home at 8 weeks he
was introduced to some smashed chicken backs quartered up and then
half chicken backs not crushed up. He's chewing up the backs very
well. I was giving him some kiddle for his evening meal just to act
like a supplement. Well the more raw meats he got the less he wanted
the kibble. So the kiddle is now not on the menu. He's all raw and
loving it.

My only issue is he doesn't like to stay at his feeding area. He
likes to grab a part and walk into the living room or around the
kitchen with it. If I stand on the side of him to make sure he
doesn't he drops it on the floor in between chomps. I'm thinking
since he's a Great Dane he won't be doing this for long since he'll
be able to crunch twice and swallow soon.

Should I be concerned of this? Can this turn into a habit? Is there
anything I can do to stop it now or should I just be glad he's eating
everything and just wipe he floor after he's done?

Thank you

Jay

Messages in this topic (6)
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3b. Re: How to stop him from traveling around the house with food
Posted by: "Christine" chrizk20@yahoo.com chrizk20
Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 8:02 am ((PST))

Do you have a crate? If not, get a crate and feed him in his crate.
or get a plastic table cloth and put it down on the floor or get a
towel. Or you could even feed him outside.
If he gets up, go and get the food and bring it back to the area and
give him the food back and tell him he is good boy for staying on the
area. he will start to learn that his is eating area.
Crate would be easier though.
Just my two cents!
christine k.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jaygaughan" <jaygaughan@...>
wrote:
>
> My little 9 week old Dane LOVES raw. This is my first dog eating
raw
> (wish I looked into this with my others). My breeder started him
out
> with ground turkey, chicken, and green tripe. Once home at 8 weeks
he
> was introduced to some smashed chicken backs quartered up and then
> half chicken backs not crushed up. He's chewing up the backs very
> well. I was giving him some kiddle for his evening meal just to act
> like a supplement. Well the more raw meats he got the less he
wanted
> the kibble. So the kiddle is now not on the menu. He's all raw and
> loving it.
>
> My only issue is he doesn't like to stay at his feeding area. He
> likes to grab a part and walk into the living room or around the
> kitchen with it. If I stand on the side of him to make sure he
> doesn't he drops it on the floor in between chomps. I'm thinking
> since he's a Great Dane he won't be doing this for long since he'll
> be able to crunch twice and swallow soon.
>
> Should I be concerned of this? Can this turn into a habit? Is there
> anything I can do to stop it now or should I just be glad he's
eating
> everything and just wipe he floor after he's done?
>
> Thank you
>
> Jay
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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3c. Re: How to stop him from traveling around the house with food
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 8:02 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jaygaughan" <jaygaughan@...>
wrote:
>
> Should I be concerned of this?

Thats up to you. My dogs take food anywhere they want to eat it.
Others don't like that so they will limit their dogs eating location
chocices.

> Can this turn into a habit?

Everything the dog does at this age will turn into a habit.

> Is there anything I can do to stop it now or should I just be
> glad he's eating everything and just wipe he floor after
> he's done?

Here are some options.
1. You can get a baby gate and gate off the kitchen while he is
eating.
2. You can place something like a towel or a plastic table cloth
for him to eat on it. Each time he steps off the towel or table
cloth with food in his mouth, IMMEDIATELY put him right back on it.
It won't take him long to figure out he must stay there to eat.
3. Feed him in his crate.
4. Close him in the laundry room
6. Just let him eat where ever he wishes. If you choose this
option for now, it will be more difficult to change to another
method later.

At his age, it's very easy to cultivate good habits and to teach the
rules of the house. Make a decision for where he will eat the rest
of his life and begin that habit today.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (6)
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3d. Re: How to stop him from traveling around the house with food
Posted by: "mozookpr" mozookpr@yahoo.com mozookpr
Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 9:59 am ((PST))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jaygaughan" <jaygaughan@...> wrote:
>
> My only issue is he doesn't like to stay at his feeding area. He
> likes to grab a part and walk into the living room or around the
> kitchen with it...

>... Should I be concerned of this? Can this turn into a habit? Is
there
> anything I can do to stop it now or should I just be glad he's eating
> everything and just wipe he floor after he's done?
>
> Thank you
>
> Jay
>
>
Hi, Jay.

I just started raw feeding my two dogs last Monday, and let me tell
you, NOW is the time to start shaping your puppy's behavior. My
sheltie is about 4 1/2 months old, and eats in her crate without
complaint, although I am sure it would not be her choice of dining
accomodations if I let her have her way. I decided where Sophie will
eat, and that is what she will grow up knowing.

My pomeranian is another story. Foxy is five, has always eaten kibble,
as much as he wanted, whenever he wanted. His bowl has always been
kept in the kitchen, but he has never actually eaten there. He takes a
piece of food or two and carries it to the living room to eat it, then
goes back for more. Not so bad with kibble, but potentially a nasty
mess with raw. Because feeding him a healthy diet and having him
actually eat it is more important to me than our aging carpet, I am
willing to move slowly with insisting that he eat in the crate. It is
my goal, eventually, but first I want to build his appetite for raw
food. (My apologies to all who read about this when I posted for
advice, but it seemed appropriate in this context...)

My point? There is not a right or wrong place for your puppy to eat,
beyond what you are willing to clean up, or, if you have other pets,
your need to keep them apart during meals (prevents potential fights,
stealing of slow eaters' food, and makes monitoring intake much
easier.) Whatever you choose, your life will be much easier if you
start now. Dragging food all over the house might be cute with a
puppy. When your Dane weighs 100+ lbs and dinner is half a turkey or a
whole deer's head, it probably won't be cute, and may be intolerable.

Whatever you choose, you have a wonderful opportunity to start your pup
out right, both nutritionally and behaviorally.

Wendy, who wishes she had known about raw when *Foxy* was 9 weeks old ;)

Messages in this topic (6)
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3e. Re: How to stop him from traveling around the house with food
Posted by: "jaygaughan" jaygaughan@yahoo.com jaygaughan
Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 11:30 am ((PST))

Thank you for the advice everyone.

I do have a crate (actually 4 crates from other Danes I had) and have
fed him in it several times already. I did this to give him positive
feelings about the crate. It worked just great. He goes into his
crate on his own now and never makes a sound.

The reason I didn't think this would turn into a bad habit is because
I've seen other Great Danes eat chicken backs. They never had a
chance to walk away. Couple chews and it's gone. In either case I
definitely don't want this to continue or get worse. I just spent
much time on my hands and knees refinishing the hardwood floors.

I didn't think to continue crate feeding to solve this issue. DOH!
I did put a towel down but he sometimes misses.

I'll feed him in the crate until he gets a little bigger. He'll then
be eating on an elevated feeding station.

Thanks again

Jay

Messages in this topic (6)
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3f. Re: How to stop him from traveling around the house with food
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 11:37 am ((PST))

Hey Jay!

I think when he gets larger if you are not going to feed in a crate, you
need to get him trained to eat on a towel or blanket....I can guarantee he
will not eat from an elevated feeding station. You will be feeding him
larger portions and he most likely will lay down to eat.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "jaygaughan" <jaygaughan@yahoo.com>

I'll feed him in the crate until he gets a little bigger. He'll then
be eating on an elevated feeding station.

Messages in this topic (6)
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4a. Re: DEER MEAT, whats cws?
Posted by: "Jen S" zordan@optonline.net sigp2301
Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 8:02 am ((PST))

New York state has an extensive informative website regarding CWD,
with many questions being answered. To put it to topic on this list,
"Are domestic animals at risk for CWD?

There is no indication to date that CWD is a threat to domestic
animals or livestock other than deer or elk, and there have been no
reports of CWD in dogs or cats."

http://www.health.state.ny.us/diseases/communicable/zoonoses/cwd.htm

Another excellent resource for CWD info is
http://www.cwd-info.org/index.php/fuseaction/about.main

I know that
links are generally against the rules here, but I feel that the
information on these sites is important to know.

Currently, no CWD or a relative of it has shown up in wild dog or
coyote populations sharing space with infected deer, which is good
news for us. I am in CT, right next to upstate New York, and the
processors have strict rules about processing deer here. Hunters have
to de-bone their harvests across the border and bring in the meat
without bone. To be on the safe side, I don't feed spine and central
nervous system, as this seems to be the area that the prion settles
into the animal.

I hope this helps.

JenZ

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Candee Brey <candee@...> wrote:
>
> CWS
> Chronic Waste Syndrome
> Mad Cow Disease.
>
> Candee
>
> On Dec 3, 2007, at 8:51 PM, Michelle R wrote:
>
> > whats cws?
> >
> > Michelle Radcliff
> > Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
> > http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html
> >
> > __________________________________________________________
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://
> > mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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4b. Re: DEER MEAT, whats cws?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 10:12 am ((PST))

"Jen S" <zordan@...> wrote:
> Another excellent resource for CWD info is
> http://www.cwd-info.org/index.php/fuseaction/about.main

I know that
> links are generally against the rules here, but I feel that the
> information on these sites is important to know.
*****
Links to information are not against the rules on this list; they are
in fact more valuable than rumor and gossip. Links to advertising
though, they suck.

Thanks for the information.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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5. Feeding venison
Posted by: "Kim Clark" kimmieclark@netzero.com howdryiam50
Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 8:40 am ((PST))

Hello a newbie here,
my husband will been getting his deer here soon, hopefully and am
wondering with the TB in Michigan deer what do you think of feeding the
organs to my dog? Although, it's not suppose to be in the deer this far
down I just wonder how safe it is.

Kimmie

Messages in this topic (1)
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6a. Re: am I feeding enough?
Posted by: "Ashley Myers" miragehairsalon@yahoo.com miragehairsalon
Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 10:19 am ((PST))

Thanks for your response. It's frozen patties that I thaw and can put into a dish, I can't easily get down to clean up and moping is difficult as of now. I've heard bad things about the swifer(chemicals?) which is what I used before, can it hurt the dogs? They were a little pudgy but seem to be doing well,
Both you and Bill went back to observing what the dogs look like so I think thats the best to do for now and watch to make sure they have the energy they need. I will get back to regular raw feeding asap, we are also going away at the holiday and I need this to be easy for my neighbor (although she seems very adaptable)
Thanks again
Kitty

katkellm <katkellm@yahoo.com> wrote:
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Ashley Myers <miragehairsalon@...>
wrote:

>> I'm still a bit concerned,It's been about 3 mos. on raw for my
litte dogs. 16,11,5 lbs. My littlest one gets 3-4 oz the others get
about 5 ozs. is that enough.

Hi Kitty,
The amount you are feeding figures out with the math i did, but i
don't think that anyone but you can determine if that is enough food.
Little dogs, lots of time, actually require a higher percentage of
their body weight-think 3% ish- than big dogs-more 2% ish-, but since
i can't see your dogs it would be impossible for me to answer your
question. How do they look to you? If you think they are thin, then
you need to feed more. Numbers are only starting guidelines, time and
the dog tell the real story.

>>I've not been feeling well so I can't clean up as well so I've
switched to a frozen pattie that I got at the pet store (I know that's
not perfection) but it's not kibble either. This is temporary until I
get better. I don' want to cause them problems. They seem happy but I
was just wondering.

I hope that you feel better soon. I have never feed frozen raw
patties, but i don't see how those patties are any "cleaner" than real
raw food. Raw is raw. If you are feeding the patties frozen and that
seems less messy to you, how about just feeding real raw frozen? How
about putting down one of those cheap vinyl tablecloths from the
dollar store and feed on it? Unless you chop veggies or grind stuff,
i don't think that real raw would be that much more work than frozen
raw. I am sorry if i am underestimating how you are feeling and seem
insensitive. I just wanted to help you think of a way to feed real
raw to your dogs so that they get the best and it doesn't hurt you.
Also, i'm not sure if the 2% of their ideal body weight formula
applies to frozen patties, and so that could be another factor in the
feeding/math/how much food question. Sorry to not be more helpful, KathyM

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6b. Re: am I feeding enough?
Posted by: "Ashley Myers" miragehairsalon@yahoo.com miragehairsalon
Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 10:19 am ((PST))

They are not puppies. My Pomeranian is 3, (11lbs) my miniature dauschund iis 2 (16lbs!) and my Yorkie (teacup) is 2 1/2. (5 lbs) I am afraid my yorkie and dauschund are not ideal weight. I have read conflicting info about the ideal weight on the internet but I think my doxie should be about 11 lbs. and the yorkie about 3-4 lbs.Do you have little dogs?
If so wat type of foods work best for you.?
I don't think I did it right in the beginning because there was a lot of runny stools (lots of cleanup there, I actually mind that more than raw food) Am unable to cleanup much of anything just now,because of my own health issues, so when i reintroduce I will be more careful. I've printed off a lot of advice and have a freezer full of chicken and beef but I think I mixed things up too soon,and from what it sound overfed. All of which I guess could contribute to the problmes for my little ones.
Thanks for your help Yassy
Kitty
Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I'm still a bit concerned,It's been about 3 mos. on raw for my litte dogs. 16,11,5 lbs. My littlest one gets 3-4 oz the others get about 5 ozs. is that enough.

Hi,Kitty. 5lb,16lb,11lb dog,are they puppy? Arethey on ideal adult weight? What breed you have?

If 5lb dog were adult and be on the ideal weight,you arefeeding more than needed.

5lbx16x0.02=1.6oz 1.6oz isdaily intake if 5lb dog wereideal adult weight and be on 2% guideline

For 11lb, 11lbx16x0.02=3.52oz daily intake with 2% guideline assuming you have adult dog with ideal weight being 11lb

For 16lb, 16lbx16x0.02= 5.12oz daily intake 2 guideline,assuming 16lb adult dog being on ideal adult weight.

> well so I've switched to a frozen pattie that I got at the pet store (I
know that's not perfection) but it's not kibble either.

But better if you were feeding real meat than feeding pattie that you do not know what % of what are in the patties.

yassy

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6c. Re: am I feeding enough?
Posted by: "Ashley Myers" miragehairsalon@yahoo.com miragehairsalon
Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 10:33 am ((PST))

Thnks for your help Bill, I always look forward to your posts, their straightforward and interesting
Kitty

carnesbill <carnesw@bellsouth.net> wrote:
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Ashley Myers
<miragehairsalon@...> wrote:
>
> My littlest one gets 3-4 oz the others get about 5 ozs. is
> that enough.

You are feeding numbers. Forget that concept. Feed by your dog's
looks. Are they fat? Feed less. Are they thin? Feed more. Are
they just right? Continue what you are doing.

> but it's not kibble either.

Well ... its raw kibble.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

---------------------------------
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7. Re: Salmon oil versus capsules
Posted by: "Sai Simonson" saiczarina@comcast.net keikokat
Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 10:19 am ((PST))

Hi Tina,
Here I am again.

I am wondering if 4 capsules would be equal to a tablespoon?
Tending toward the liquid as it is tedious to break open capsules or
stuff them down throats.
I can finally get the egg into the 66 lb girl by breaking up bits of
cheese into it. Maybe adding the salmon oil would make the egg tastier
and I could lose the cheese?

Sai

--
*~~ SaiCzarina*

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8a. Tests done
Posted by: "Cathy Richmond" batcathy@sbcglobal.net batcathy2002
Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 10:34 am ((PST))

Dink & I just returned from new vet. They gave her a once over & drew
blood for a TLI & PLI...they are sending it to Texas A&M Lab as he said
it is one of the most accurate in the U.S. but slow so not to expect
any news for at least 10 days.He also said he expects it to be that she
needs the pac enzymes but will hold off for results. If more is needed
we will go to the ultra sound next.
She is doing very well on the chicken & turkey with no skin & very
little bone. So now it is just a wait & see on pins & needles.
Thankyou all for your input and I will keep you posted.
Cathy & dinky

Messages in this topic (2)
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8b. Re: Tests done
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 12:00 pm ((PST))

"Cathy Richmond" <batcathy@...> wrote:
> She is doing very well on the chicken & turkey with no skin & very
> little bone. So now it is just a wait & see on pins & needles.
*****
I am so pleased you've found something to stablize her! One teeny tiny
step at a time is often what it takes. Yes, please let us know what's
going on.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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9a. Re: evils of cooked meat
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 10:47 am ((PST))

This thread has run its course. Please take all further discussion
private. Thank you.
Chris O
Moderation Team

Messages in this topic (19)
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10.1. New to Raw
Posted by: "dijac9999" jacobs_diane@hotmail.com dijac9999
Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 12:16 pm ((PST))

I would like some help please.

My baby girl is a Great Dane, estimated at 2.5 years old and is 96
lbs.

I stared out with Chicken leg quarters. I was going to introduce a new
protein at about 2 weeks when her diarrhea changed to the nice smaller
poo. From what I've read up on, start new proteins slowly. My
thoughts were to do chicken in the morning and every other night after
the introduction period the same new protein, then one week all chicken
and start again. And just keep adding the new proteins slowly.

However, she is still not having any hard/firm poo. We started raw on
November 4th. She gets fed twice a day. I did try about week three
giving her mackerel for dinner as a new protein to see if that
helped. Didn't work; it was still very soft to the point of almost
runny. I tried the makeral because I used to put it on her kibble, so
I thought her body would already know how to process.

I'm concerned about trying any more proteins. I'm also concerned that
maybe I should ask the vet for some kind of test to make sure she is
okay, but I do not know what test to ask for.

All suggestions are appreciated.
Thank you.
Martini's Mom.

Messages in this topic (52)
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10.2. Re: New to Raw
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 1:11 pm ((PST))

Martini's mom,
First of all, chicken leg quarters are too much bone, and not enough meat, I would think that is probably the only problem. Try doing whole chickens, and cutting them up, she's a dane, and can handle it, I have three, and they do just fine on whole chickens, and give her the organs, at the end of the week. If the poos stiffen up, then after two weeks you can change it over to a different protein. Remember, meat is supposed to be about 80% of the diet, and bones and organs, about 10% each, and it doesn't have to work out to that at each and every meal, but it helps if most of the meals are meatier than bonier. And chicken leg quarters are too boney. Try some boneless chicken for a few days, I bet it clears right up, and firms right up so to speak. If not, let us know and we'll try something else. But stay with the chicken. Try boneless for a few days then go to whole chickens, and you should be fine.
jeni

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Messages in this topic (52)
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10.3. Re: New to Raw
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 1:38 pm ((PST))

EDITED BY MODERATOR. PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES!

Hi,
I see someone else has answered opposite of what I have found to be
successful for our Danes.
My 3 Dane pups never had solid poop from the day I brought them home! No
matter what we tried for several months. We had to keep get medications
from the vet & even then it was a hit & miss.
Then we went to raw. What we have to do is add a turkey neck to their meals
to keep their stools firm. Without extra bone in their systems, they get
runny poo; so for our Danes (and my one Dalmatian) we have to provide the
extra bone every day from those necks.
Maybe give it a try? What can ya hurt?
My Lhasas on the other hand can eat anything!! Although Amy is now on her
very very strict diet (thank you Bill C for the very helpful directions!!)
But they eat Pork, meaty meals & no problems. No meaty meals for the Danes
or Dal or is runny poo!!
Good Luck!!
Trina

Messages in this topic (52)
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11a. Mucosy & Bloody Stools
Posted by: "dmckenna43" dawn@explorenewquay.com dmckenna43
Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 1:11 pm ((PST))

We have 14 week old puppies a Westie and Scottie and have been feeding
them raw chicken wings. Last week we varied their diet and gave them
chicken thighs. Our local butcher also gave us a bag of offcuts Lamb,
Pork, Chicken, Beef. They had a small amount of these offcuts last
week and a small amount of Breast of Lamb. Over the last couple of
days their stools have changed and have been a little bloody and
mucosy.

The puppies are fine in themselves and don't appear distressed when
going to the toilet but we are a little anxious as this is the first
time we have embarked on raw feeding.

We would appreciate any advice.

Dawn & Gerry
Newquay, Cornwall, UK

Messages in this topic (2)
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11b. Re: Mucosy & Bloody Stools
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 1:21 pm ((PST))

The puppies are fine in themselves and don't appear distressed when
going to the toilet but we are a little anxious as this is the first
time we have embarked on raw feeding.

#### well it seems as if you broke the simple, golden rule of starting off
slow, easy, simple.

It is best to stick to one protein source for the first week or two, THEN,
if all is going essentially smooth, introduce new items on a gradual basis.
Not a great idea to be feeding a gazillion different protein sources in the
beginning. Once again, a great reason to ALWAYS read the archives or ask us
prior to starting just to make sure you don't start with digestive distress.

The mucous and blood is a sign of inflammation in the intestines and a day
of fasting or very 'bland' eating should quickly alleviate this.

Remember, you have the rest of their lives to offer everything and anything,
believe me, I certainly do with my boy who has been doing this for years.
BUT, you have only begun. Respect their growing bodies, purchase WHOLE
chickens, lop into halves, then quarters and feed THESE. Wings are bone
with barely a trace of meat. Follow nature, not bits and pieces,
especially in the beginning.

Chia & Ricco

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Feed Pets Raw Food

Tuesday, December 4, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12344

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