[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12340

There are 24 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: am I feeding enough?
From: Yasuko herron
1b. Re: am I feeding enough?
From: katkellm
1c. Re: am I feeding enough?
From: carnesbill

2a. Re: Here is a new twist on this issue
From: mozookpr
2b. Re: Here is a new twist on this issue
From: mozookpr
2c. Re: Here is a new twist on this issue
From: Laurie Swanson
2d. Re: Here is a new twist on this issue
From: Giselle

3a. Re: Raw Book list
From: Sandee Lee
3b. Re: Raw Book list
From: costrowski75
3c. Re: Raw Book list
From: katkellm
3d. Re: Raw Book list
From: Sarah Meyers

4a. Re: Feeded Fish
From: Yasuko herron
4b. Re: Feeded Fish
From: Sandee Lee
4c. Re: Feeded Fish
From: Yasuko herron
4d. Re: Feeded Fish
From: Morledzep@aol.com

5. Natalie update (and the others)
From: jenna

6a. Which of these has more good stuff for kittens..gizzards(bird stomac
From: jordan_spiva
6b. Re: Which of these has more good stuff for kittens..gizzards(bird st
From: Giselle

7a. Re: puppy chocking on food
From: delcaste
7b. Re: puppy chocking on food
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
7c. Re: puppy chocking on food
From: Giselle

8. frozen/fresh
From: Cathy Richmond

9a. Re: Heartworm tx and raw
From: Cdandp2@aol.com

10. I convinced a co-worker!!!
From: Michelle

Messages
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1a. Re: am I feeding enough?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 5:38 pm ((PST))

>I'm still a bit concerned,It's been about 3 mos. on raw for my litte dogs. 16,11,5 lbs. My littlest one gets 3-4 oz the others get about 5 ozs. is that enough.

Hi,Kitty. 5lb,16lb,11lb dog,are they puppy? Arethey on ideal adult weight? What breed you have?

If 5lb dog were adult and be on the ideal weight,you arefeeding more than needed.

5lbx16x0.02=1.6oz 1.6oz isdaily intake if 5lb dog wereideal adult weight and be on 2% guideline

For 11lb, 11lbx16x0.02=3.52oz daily intake with 2% guideline assuming you have adult dog with ideal weight being 11lb

For 16lb, 16lbx16x0.02= 5.12oz daily intake 2 guideline,assuming 16lb adult dog being on ideal adult weight.

> well so I've switched to a frozen pattie that I got at the pet store (I
know that's not perfection) but it's not kibble either.

But better if you were feeding real meat than feeding pattie that you do not know what % of what are in the patties.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (4)
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1b. Re: am I feeding enough?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 5:39 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Ashley Myers <miragehairsalon@...>
wrote:

>> I'm still a bit concerned,It's been about 3 mos. on raw for my
litte dogs. 16,11,5 lbs. My littlest one gets 3-4 oz the others get
about 5 ozs. is that enough.

Hi Kitty,
The amount you are feeding figures out with the math i did, but i
don't think that anyone but you can determine if that is enough food.
Little dogs, lots of time, actually require a higher percentage of
their body weight-think 3% ish- than big dogs-more 2% ish-, but since
i can't see your dogs it would be impossible for me to answer your
question. How do they look to you? If you think they are thin, then
you need to feed more. Numbers are only starting guidelines, time and
the dog tell the real story.

>>I've not been feeling well so I can't clean up as well so I've
switched to a frozen pattie that I got at the pet store (I know that's
not perfection) but it's not kibble either. This is temporary until I
get better. I don' want to cause them problems. They seem happy but I
was just wondering.

I hope that you feel better soon. I have never feed frozen raw
patties, but i don't see how those patties are any "cleaner" than real
raw food. Raw is raw. If you are feeding the patties frozen and that
seems less messy to you, how about just feeding real raw frozen? How
about putting down one of those cheap vinyl tablecloths from the
dollar store and feed on it? Unless you chop veggies or grind stuff,
i don't think that real raw would be that much more work than frozen
raw. I am sorry if i am underestimating how you are feeling and seem
insensitive. I just wanted to help you think of a way to feed real
raw to your dogs so that they get the best and it doesn't hurt you.
Also, i'm not sure if the 2% of their ideal body weight formula
applies to frozen patties, and so that could be another factor in the
feeding/math/how much food question. Sorry to not be more helpful, KathyM

Messages in this topic (4)
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1c. Re: am I feeding enough?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 10:21 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Ashley Myers
<miragehairsalon@...> wrote:
>
> My littlest one gets 3-4 oz the others get about 5 ozs. is
> that enough.

You are feeding numbers. Forget that concept. Feed by your dog's
looks. Are they fat? Feed less. Are they thin? Feed more. Are
they just right? Continue what you are doing.

> but it's not kibble either.

Well ... its raw kibble.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Re: Here is a new twist on this issue
Posted by: "mozookpr" mozookpr@yahoo.com mozookpr
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 5:38 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Michelle R <crested_dog8@...>
wrote:
>
> <I have an interesting twist on this problem. I just started raw
> Another thing, if you are feeding 10 ounces and hes possibly a bit
overweight and not eating well..why not just decrease the size of his
meals?
>
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
> http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html
>
>
Perhaps I was unclear in my post. His meals *total* about 5
oz....not 5 at each meal. Nor is he overweight, although do stay
vigilant about this, having seen far too many fat little dogs.

Because I also have cats I am switching to raw, it really is
important that I be able to monitor who is eating and who is not,
which prompted my desire to have him eat in the crate. He does, btw,
seem to be doing a little better tonight...maybe it is just a period
of adjustment. He is used to a constant source of junk food, and has
looked a bit woebegone a couple of times this week when he has
checked the kitchen for food and found only water bowls.

Now, if I could just get my mom to cut out the treats...

Sticking to it,

Wendy, Foxy, and Sophie, who loves raw (but has major
squirts...another post, I guess)

______________________________________________________________________
______________
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (13)
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2b. Re: Here is a new twist on this issue
Posted by: "mozookpr" mozookpr@yahoo.com mozookpr
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 5:38 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "katkellm" <katkellm@...> wrote:
>
> > --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mozookpr" <mozookpr@> wrote:
>
> Hi Wendy,
> How about putting a vinyl tablecloth in the living room and letting
> him eat in there? The vinyl should keep the floor clean, and it
might
> be easier to teach him to keep it on the cloth than to get him to
eat
> elsewhere.
>
I tried a placemat in the living room, but the problem is, he does
not stay in one place with his goodies, and is likely to drag them
onto the couch. Also, I am converting my cats to raw, and it is hard
enough to monitor who is eating what without having my little
bottomless pit kittens stealing Foxy's dinner (and getting bitten in
the process)!

Have been feeding raw for only a week, but he is already getting
little bits of pork with his chicken. He seems to like it. I keep
hearing that beef is the last thing to add to the list because it can
cause cannon butt, so I want to hold off on that, but he *does* like
it, as I learned when I got the dogs a pound of stew meat for his
birthday last month.

I think the most obvious suggestion is probably best: feed once a
day. He has never had issues with hypoglycemia, it is just an issue
I have heard of with some toys, mostly tiny puppies. Overprotective
dog mom, here, I guess.

My mind knows he will not starve himself. Getting the gut to follow
is another matter. Sigh.

Wendy...tired...

Messages in this topic (13)
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2c. Re: Here is a new twist on this issue
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 7:56 pm ((PST))

Hi Wendy,

If you can just hang in there and supervise him eating on the mat
(might need it to be bigger than a typical placemat--or use a bath mat
you can wash--he might like that texture better...or anything else you
can think of) and teach him to keep it there, it won't take long! Just
every time he takes his food off the mat, put it back on and tell him
he needs to keep it on the mat. He'll figure it out pretty quickly!

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mozookpr" <mozookpr@...> wrote:

> I tried a placemat in the living room, but the problem is, he does
> not stay in one place with his goodies, and is likely to drag them
> onto the couch.

Messages in this topic (13)
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2d. Re: Here is a new twist on this issue
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Dec 3, 2007 1:50 am ((PST))

Hi, Wendy!
You can place the mat or towel, or blanket in a LARGE
cardboard box, with tall sides. Put the food and Foxy in the box, and this
should keep him from dragging it around. It will also keep the kitties from
harassing him.
As he gets used to eating in the box, you can gradually cut down the sides a
little bit at a time, one at a time, until he is eating just on the mat. The
mat becomes THE comfortable place to eat, not the kitchen, or the living
room, etc., but by then you can put his mat down anywhere, and he will know
what he is to do. You can also use a word or short phrase like "Dinner!" or
""Time to eat!" or "Go to your place!" to get him to associate it with meal
times.

You could also give the kitties the same thing Foxy is getting, somewhere
away from where he is eating, to distract them.

Once he knows what is expected of him, and is comfortable knowing that he
can trust you to keep him safe and comfortable from the cats depredations,
he will relax and enjoy his raw food.

Can you switch Mom over to feeding him some better quality and tinier
treats? If you keep diced heart, gizzards and even bits of meat about the
size of a baby pea in the fridge for Mom to give to Foxy, and redirect her
to them as "very special Foxy treats" it will make Foxie's transition to all
raw easier, and ensure Mom's happiness, and compliance. Include the treats
as part of his daily portion. You can parcel them out into those little
disposable/reusable plastic snack containers. She may even start to give the
kitties those treats, too! ^_^

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Dec 2, 2007 10:52 PM, Laurie Swanson <laurie@mckinneyphoto.com> wrote:

> Hi Wendy,
>
> If you can just hang in there and supervise him eating on the mat
> (might need it to be bigger than a typical place mat--or use a bath mat
> you can wash--he might like that texture better...or anything else you
> can think of) and teach him to keep it there, it won't take long! Just
> every time he takes his food off the mat, put it back on and tell him
> he needs to keep it on the mat. He'll figure it out pretty quickly!
>
> Laurie
>
>
>
>

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Messages in this topic (13)
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3a. Re: Raw Book list
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 6:04 pm ((PST))

Sarah,

Other than the Mech books documenting what wolves eat, I don't know of any.
Feeding prey model can be described in one paragraph...not a great book
seller!! :))

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Sarah Meyers" <s2meyers@yahoo.com>
> I am new to all this and while I have spent some time looking around at
websites and in the archives in this list, are there any good books out
there on raw feeding? I have looked at some books but many of these seem to
also encourage the use of grains and/or fruits and veggies. Maybe some of
these have useful info, but I would love to hear your opinions on a booklist
for rawfeeders. Are there any prey model diet books out there?

Messages in this topic (5)
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3b. Re: Raw Book list
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 6:23 pm ((PST))

Sarah Meyers <s2meyers@...> wrote:
are there any good books out there on raw feeding?
*****
No, not so you'd notice.

I have looked at some books but many of these seem to also encourage
the use of grains and/or fruits and veggies.
*****
You got that right!

Are there any prey model diet books out there?
*****
Nope.
The closest is Tom Lonsdale's "Work Wonders" which used to be a free
download but now is not. He does not feed "prey model" and is not I
don't think keen on the term. But at least he feeds meaty bones and
skips the veggies except for tablescraps.

I recommend reading some of L. David Mech's wolf books for a good
REAL look at what wolves eat. And how. This is a good one:
The Wolf: The Ecology and Behavior of an Endangered Species / by L.
David Mech By American Museum of Natural History

and this which is more recent:
Wolves: Behavior, Ecology, and Conservation by L. David Mech, Luigi
Boitani

Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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3c. Re: Raw Book list
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 6:36 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Meyers <s2meyers@...> wrote:
Are there any prey model diet books out there?

Hi Sarah,
Work Wonders and Raw Meaty Bones by Dr. Tom Lonsdale are the only 2
books that i could recommend. If you compiled all the writing of our
veteran pros, Chris O, Casey, Carrie, Sandy (and Griffin) and many
more, you would have the best raw feeding book ever published. I would
search for their names in the archive, make a cup of coffee, and read
away. KathyM

Messages in this topic (5)
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3d. Re: Raw Book list
Posted by: "Sarah Meyers" s2meyers@yahoo.com s2meyers
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 7:36 pm ((PST))

Hmmm well that's what I was thinking. Thanks for those tips though, I will look into those books. I'm always looking for an excuse to buy more books and get away from the computer :) It would be a great idea for someone to put all this good material into a book, I would definately get one!
Thanks Again
Sarah Meyers

____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.

http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

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Messages in this topic (5)
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4a. Re: Feeded Fish
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 7:36 pm ((PST))

> Fish is far more species appropriate than poultry!

Sandee,it is because the bird is high in Omega 6?

I am wondering how many times per week other people including you feeding fish.

I feed fish 2 days per week.

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (12)
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4b. Re: Feeded Fish
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 8:22 pm ((PST))

I think if you read through that entire thread, Chris answered this quite
nicely......
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/135493

I feed it when I have it which isn't often. It's a nice additional protein
source when available.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Yasuko herron" <sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com>

> > Fish is far more species appropriate than poultry!
>
> Sandee,it is because the bird is high in Omega 6?
>
> I am wondering how many times per week other people including you
feeding fish.

Messages in this topic (12)
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4c. Re: Feeded Fish
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 10:21 pm ((PST))

> It's a nice additional protein source when available.

I agree! I do not rely on fish for omega 3 and I supplement with Fish oil cap. But I get wahtever looks good on fish counter and I mainly get as part of protin variety than omega 3 source because I know that giving omega 3 just with fish is real hard to achieve.

I read chris's post before posting my question but did not realize it is answering my question. Sorry.

I guess that means I better go to bed as palette is snoring under my PC desk as I write this.

I better wake her up for last time potty,lol.

Good night,and thank you for your reply.

yassy

---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

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Messages in this topic (12)
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4d. Re: Feeded Fish
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Dec 3, 2007 12:15 am ((PST))

In a message dated 12/2/2007 7:36:34 PM Pacific Standard Time,
sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com writes:

I am wondering how many times per week other people including you feeding
fish.

Yassy,

i feed fish maybe once a month.. if that. I don't buy it often and i usually
only feed it as part of a meal, not as the entire meal.

most of the raw fish i buy is not meant for wolf chow but for fish food. So
the dogs really don't get much fish, but we got a deal on whole salmon a few
months ago and i stocked up. So about once a month i grab a couple salmon out
of the freezer and divide it up with whatever else the dogs are eating
(usually organs or green tripe).

Catherine R.

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

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5. Natalie update (and the others)
Posted by: "jenna" jennawing@charter.net jennawing
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 10:21 pm ((PST))

I wrote asking advice on getting our ridgeback x Natalie to eat raw
food. There have been some improvements, and maybe some ideas to
help others with the same issue, so I thought I would write to say
thanks for the advice and to give an update on how she is taking to
raw feeding.

We tried all the things about taking her bowl up after a certain
legnth of time, putting her off in a separate room, etc etc and
after about two weeks she still was not eating. So- we are now
chopping her food- bone and all- chopping it roughly with a meat
cleaver and filling her bowl. It is still large enough pieces that
she must chew it, but no longer resembles dead animal parts but real
food, so this seems to work for everyone. Natalie eats
enthusiastically now- not a single day since we started chopping the
food has she not eaten and even asked for more- which is way better
than she ever did on kibble. She LOVES calves liver- the other dogs
wouldn't touch it.

So, for the others- a MARKED improvement on everyone's teeth
*cheers* Pagan's teeth look better now after 3 weeks of raw feeding
than they would after having them scaled AND without her being
frightened to death and the nicks on her gums, too- so AMAZING!

Sirius, GSD x going on 9, who has been on multiple extended rounds
of antibiotics for skin issues- is now NOT on meds for the first
time in months. He has gained weight and very active.

Hogan, rat terrier, 2 1/2- unneutered male who has trouble keeping
weight on- is looking very nice and proportionate. I am excited that
he will be filled out very nicely by Feb for the perry, ga show.
Keep your fingers crossed as he only need 16pts to champion! Go,
Hogan!

Pagan, 2yo rat terrier- our smallest at 12 pounds- is in love with
the new food- eats on 3 legs- she really gets into the crunching!

I have not started the cats on raw as yet. I hate the delay, but I
am thinking economically here and they are still working on a bag of
kibble. (hate to be wasteful) So, they should be all switched over
in a week or so, though the two male cats and old Booger have been
enjoying some tidbits along with the dogs. ALso, my son is away for
holidays and it is his job to feed the cats, so it will coincide
nicely with his return and we can learn the new routine together.
Thanks again for those links for cats + raw diet!

Just wanted to share my excitement. Still can't get over how much
better everyone's teeth are- that must be the first most obvious
improvement. Looking forward to even more and enjoying learning by
reading all the posts!

Thanks again,
jenna (AL)

Messages in this topic (1)
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6a. Which of these has more good stuff for kittens..gizzards(bird stomac
Posted by: "jordan_spiva" jordan_spiva@yahoo.com jordan_spiva
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 10:21 pm ((PST))

+++Mod note: please sign messages, or they tend to disappear! +++

Is there a nutritional diference in stomaches from mammals and stomaches from birds? My
cat had kittens and we need to know which would be better for both them and their mom. Or
are they the same.

Messages in this topic (2)
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6b. Re: Which of these has more good stuff for kittens..gizzards(bird st
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Dec 3, 2007 2:08 am ((PST))

Hi, Jordan!
What are you feeding now? Are they eating raw?

The difference is that cats and dogs do better on species appropriate
variety! All prey animals are perfect for food in their own way. Feed either
a variety of whole small prey or a variety of animal parts with
approximately 80% meat, 10% organ and 10% edible bone.

small whole prey;

http://www.rodentpro.com/products.asp

http://www.prey4pets.com/servlet/StoreFront

http://www.hare-today.com/index.php?cPath=23

http://snrabbits.com/
red meat cuts;

http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/meatcharts.html

http://www.best-venison.com/processing.html
Wiki has this to say about cats;

*African Wildcat*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felis_silvestris_lybica

About 10,000 years ago, some Felis silvestris lybica individuals were
domesticated in the Middle East. Modern domestic cats are derived from at
least five "Mitochondrial Eves". None of the other subspecies of Felis
silvestris contributed to the domestic breed, and many of those subspecies
own mtDNA is being swamped by interbreeding with feral cats.

The African Wildcat eats primarily mice, rats and other small mammals. If
the situation permits, it also eats birds, reptiles, amphibians and insects.

*Cat*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat

A skilled predator, the cat is known to hunt over 1,000 species for food.

Cats can be fussy eaters, possibly due to the mutation which caused their
ancestor to lose the ability to taste sugars. Unlike most mammals, cats can
voluntarily starve themselves indefinitely despite being presented with
palatable food, even a food which they had previously readily consumed. This
can happen when the vomeronasal or Jacobson's organ becomes accustomed to a
specific food, or if the cats are spoiled by their owners, in which case the
cat will reject any food that does not fit the pattern it is expecting. It
is also known for cats to merely become bored with their given food and
decide to stop eating until they are tempted into eating again. Although it
is extremely rare for a cat to deliberately starve itself to the point of
injury, the sudden loss of weight can cause a fatal condition called hepatic
lipidosis, a liver dysfunction which causes pathological loss of appetite
and reinforces the starvation, which can lead to death within as little as
48 hours.

*http://www.blakkatz.com/dryfood.html*

The domestic cat's stomach, which is quite small, has two purposes. It holds
the food and it is not necessary to hold a lot of food because the natural
food of the cat is nutrient dense. Small wild cats hunt more frequently than
their larger cousins because their prey is smaller.

You might want to check out this sister forum to the raw feeding list, and
the raw fed cats website;

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawcat/

rawfedcats.org

<http://www.best-venison.com/processing.html>
TC and tell us more about your cats!
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Dec 2, 2007 11:35 PM, jordan_spiva <jordan_spiva@yahoo.com> wrote:

> +++Mod note: please sign messages, or they tend to disappear! +++
>
> Is there a nutritional difference in stomaches from mammals and stomaches
> from birds? My
> cat had kittens and we need to know which would be better for both them
> and their mom. Or
> are they the same.
>
>
>

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7a. Re: puppy chocking on food
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 11:23 pm ((PST))

> You all recommend feeding big chuncks of beef ribs - I have no idea
> what they look like. All I get is cut up small things at the store.
> Can someone send a picture please?
> And what are tom necks?
> Vickie

Hi Vickie when short ribs have been on sale at my grocery, I've asked
the butcher if he'll leave them all together instead of cutting them
and sell them to me at the sale price. It's worked.

Silvina

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7b. Re: puppy chocking on food
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Mon Dec 3, 2007 12:15 am ((PST))

Imagine the rack of ribs as if it were still on the animal, see the whole row of ribs, and that's what it looks like. A rack, of like 8 - 10 ribs all together, with the meat holding them up, and no skin attached. Boy that's hard to describe if you think about it. If I were a vegan, I'd never be able to describe those:)
Jeni

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Messages in this topic (11)
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7c. Re: puppy chocking on food
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Dec 3, 2007 2:44 am ((PST))

Hi, Vickie!
Seems like your pup has reached the age where necks aren't
going to be safe for him to eat, or he's just going through a 'stupid eating
phase!

You could cut the necks into smaller bits and add some meat for a meal. Or,
do what I do when I do buy turkey necks. I mold a lump of
too-cheap-too-pass-up ground beef around the smaller end, and feed it
frozen. You could also wrap a hunk of beef heart around a neck and serve
frozen, too. My girl is a Newfy, and 130 lbs, but is a careful chewer, so
these ideas are safe for her.

Chewing on a slab of 3-4 beef ribs is chewing activity and flossing fun, but
not a meal, imo. Pretty fatty, and needs meat added, or it can be fed as a
snack meal the day after a Big meal;
http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/meatcharts_photos/beef_cut_chart.pdf
Let him chew all he wants on the bones and get the goodies off, then chuck
them out when they're bare.

Tom turkey necks, like tom turkeys, are much larger than hen turkeys or
their necks. If you have hen turkey necks now, tom necks may be more
appropriate to feed your boy. Where I get my turkey necks from, they each
come in a 30 lb case, but you get fewer tom necks per case, as they are
larger.

You need to check out The Lis' List! a great compilation of ways to source
meats for free or cheaply;

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/139618*

*Post #139618*
BTW, when someone else is feeding my dog, I leave out Duh! instructions and
meals that are both easy and safe to eat.

TC let us know how you and your boy do.
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Dec 2, 2007 4:46 PM, vickies_28 <vickies_28@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hello All
> thanks for all your feedback here.
> My pup is a 52 lbs basset hound. And the necks I feed a not small for
> what I can say. They are about 1.5-2" wide and about 9" long. Is it
> too small?
> And I don't feed exclusively necks. I feed a variety of beef, pork,
> cut up whole chickens and organs and fish too. So for the variety
> standpoint he is fine.
>

> <snip>
> You all recommend feeding big chunks of beef ribs - I have no idea
> what they look like. All I get is cut up small things at the store.
> Can someone send a picture please?
> And what are tom necks?
> Vickie
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (11)
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8. frozen/fresh
Posted by: "Cathy Richmond" batcathy@sbcglobal.net batcathy2002
Date: Mon Dec 3, 2007 5:23 am ((PST))

I am curious as to if there is a difference with digestion between
fresh or frozen. Not one of my dogs will eat if food is too cold so i
must warm it in a sink of hot water.The frozen smelt in summer being
the exception and that is pushed about untill thawed. I had read that
if we as humans drink cold with our meals it takes longer for digestion
to begin.It was based on studies why oriental peoples have less stomach
issues as they always start with hot drink or hot soup.
Cathy

Messages in this topic (1)
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9a. Re: Heartworm tx and raw
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Mon Dec 3, 2007 5:23 am ((PST))

Will do, Ginny. I only posted this part to address the concerns about raw
diet and the positive results in our case.

Carol

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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10. I convinced a co-worker!!!
Posted by: "Michelle" brunoheart@yahoo.com brunoheart
Date: Mon Dec 3, 2007 5:23 am ((PST))

I have been feeding my Bruno boy Raw since Oct of last year and my
Chevy girl since we adopted her last January. I have spoken about it
to my co-workers, but haven't really pushed the issue. Well, last
week, one of our cashiers came to me and started asking more questions
and then asked me to go shopping with her Fri. Although, I was unable
to go with her, I pointed her in the right direction and she fed her
first Raw meal to her Beagle and her Chi/mix Friday evening. She
called me for advice when the Chi wouldn't eat, so I gave her some tips
and she called me back less then ten minutes later to say that both
pups finished their meals and were looking for more! I am sooo excited
to know that I helped two more dogs get more appropriate diets.
Couldn't have done it without this group, so thought I'd share. Thanks
for being there.
Michelle Pape

Messages in this topic (1)
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