[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12260
There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1.1. Re: Feeding Pork
From: carnesbill
1.2. Re: Feeding Pork
From: Sandee Lee
2.1. Re: prey model
From: Loraine Jesse
3.1. Re: 80/10/10 vs 'whole prey' -Large breed puppies
From: Loraine Jesse
4a. Re: Postrate problems
From: Sandee Lee
4b. Re: Postrate problems
From: carnesbill
4c. Re: Postrate problems
From: Tracey WAGC
4d. Re: Postrate problems
From: Sandee Lee
5a. Re: Exciting Discovery Close to Home!
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
5b. Re: Exciting Discovery Close to Home!
From: Giselle
5c. Re: Exciting Discovery Close to Home!
From: JustTom
6a. Re: Diarrhea...Loose Stools
From: Yasuko herron
6b. Re: Diarrhea...Loose Stools
From: carnesbill
7a. Re: Dogs eating fruit and vegetables?
From: carnesbill
8a. Re: Please explain this..
From: costrowski75
8b. Re: Please explain this..
From: Lisa S.
8c. Re: Please explain this..
From: Giselle
8d. Re: Please explain this..
From: Andrea
9a. ADMIN/Re: Prices of turkey, chicken, freezer question
From: costrowski75
10a. Throwing up Water All Day!
From: temy1102
10b. Re: Throwing up Water All Day!
From: iumadness64
11a. starting my golden on a healthy raw diet
From: sullynory
11b. Re: starting my golden on a healthy raw diet
From: Giselle
12a. Re: weird poop and rash.....
From: patti.h310
13a. Re: excessive shedding
From: dmoore930
Messages
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1.1. Re: Feeding Pork
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 6:03 pm ((PST))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, cynthia iparraguirre <cyn7711@...>
wrote:
>
> I think I read a post stating that pork gives "cannon butt" & loose
stools, why is that?
I don't know ... mine don't. Some cuts of pork can have a good bit of
fat. Maybe that is it.
Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
Feeding Raw since October 2002
"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale
Messages in this topic (40)
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1.2. Re: Feeding Pork
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 7:29 pm ((PST))
Pork meals may or may not produce loose stools....depends on the dog, how
much is fed, how fatty the meal is, how experienced the dog, etc.
Abnormal would be uncontrollable, explosive, watery diarrhea. There is a
difference and you would recognize it!
Sandee & the Dane Gang
From: "cynthia iparraguirre" <cyn7711@yahoo.com>
>
> I think I read a post stating that pork gives "cannon butt" & loose
stools, why is that? and if loose stools are "normal" w/the feeding of pork,
how or when do I know that it has gone over the "normal" range? (I hope my
question makes sense).
Messages in this topic (40)
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2.1. Re: prey model
Posted by: "Loraine Jesse" rothburg@hotmail.com loraine_jesse
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 6:37 pm ((PST))
> From this standpoint, dogs are> scavangers, opportunistic eaters eating what they can find, ripe fruit at > the base of fruit trees,> as well as dead animals and other such.
I can see a hungry wolf or, dog eating fruit at the base of a tree during seasonal times, but this does not give the excuse to feed it as part of their every day diet. Reality is fruit, veggies and grains are just cheap diet fillers, but not ideal for a canivore. It really has taken a long time for this light bulb to go off with me. THANK-YOU RAWFEEDERS.
Loraine Jessewww.rothburgrottweilers.com
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Messages in this topic (41)
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3.1. Re: 80/10/10 vs 'whole prey' -Large breed puppies
Posted by: "Loraine Jesse" rothburg@hotmail.com loraine_jesse
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 6:37 pm ((PST))
Yes, you can feed more beef heart than beef flesh, you can also feed pork heart and chicken heart. All three count as red meat.Chris O
This is wonderful news. Finally found a good source close to home. However as Bill said am going to stock up, just in case.
Loraine Jessewww.rothburgrottweilers.com
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Messages in this topic (37)
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4a. Re: Postrate problems
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 7:46 pm ((PST))
Tracey,
While raw fed dogs are going to be healthier overall, I'm not certain how
much diet would effect the prostate gland.
Studies do show that the risk of prostatic adenocarcinoma is increased in
neutered, compared to intact male dogs, if that eases your fears!
Sandee & the Dane Gang
From: "Tracey WAGC" <wagc@sasktel.net>
> A quick question my S.I.L (sis in law) took her sheltie to the vet, as he
has been losing weight and drinking alot of water. The x-ray showed an
enlarged and prolapsed postrate so she is having him neutered then 4 weeks
after that he will get xrayed again because the vet said it could be cancer
(but didnt want to put the cart before the horse). So I guess my question
is, My poodle is not neutered and I dont plan on getting him neutered....So
how do raw fed dogs compare with kibble fed dogs when it come to postrate
problems? Anyone?
Messages in this topic (5)
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4b. Re: Postrate problems
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 7:47 pm ((PST))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Tracey WAGC <wagc@...> wrote:
>
> So how do raw fed dogs compare with kibble fed dogs when it
> come to postrate problems? Anyone?
I seriously doubt any comparisons have been made.
Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
Feeding Raw since October 2002
"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale
Messages in this topic (5)
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4c. Re: Postrate problems
Posted by: "Tracey WAGC" wagc@sasktel.net frustrated_tracey
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 8:49 pm ((PST))
++++Mod note: please take discussion pertaining to neutering off list. That part is not on topic for raw feeding. +++++++++++
"seriously doubt any comparisons have been made".
Ok how about in people experiences. Before you rawfed, did any of your dogs have postrate problems compared to your rawfed dogs? I know some of you have been rawfeeding for years and years so there should be some experiences.
If there is no difference and intact dogs have more postrate problems should one not get their dog neutered?
Tracey
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Messages in this topic (5)
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4d. Re: Postrate problems
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 8:59 pm ((PST))
Rawfeeding doesn't have anything to do with it....intact dogs don't have
more prostate problems. Cancer is more prevalent in neutered dogs.
Best go over to rawchat to continue this discussion!
Sandee & the Dane Gang
From: "Tracey WAGC" <wagc@sasktel.net>
>
> If there is no difference and intact dogs have more postrate problems
should one not get their dog neutered?
Messages in this topic (5)
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5a. Re: Exciting Discovery Close to Home!
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 7:46 pm ((PST))
Nancy,
Geeze it sounds like the butcher you found is pretty friendly, ask him those questions, I'm sure he'd be happy to help educate you, and then us, the general public.:)
What a great place you found there! My dogs love rabbit, my husband says bugs is gonna be mad at me, but they love it too much for me not to get it for them when I can find it.:)
Great looking out for your critters, and going out of your comfort zone, is good for us, it shows us what we are capable of, and we know we can do a whole lot more than we think we can.
Jeni
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Messages in this topic (5)
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5b. Re: Exciting Discovery Close to Home!
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 11:29 pm ((PST))
Sweetbread can also be pancreas, and thats more likely, I think.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweetbread
http://www.answers.com/topic/sweetbread
http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?sweetbread
This link shows listings for beef thymus, but not lamb or pork and beef,
pork & lamb pancreas;
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey
<http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/>
On Nov 8, 2007 6:38 PM, JustTom <general.woundwort@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> --- miensasis <kpmnlm@patmedia.net <kpmnlm%40patmedia.net>> wrote:
>
> > What exactly is
> > beef sweet breads???
> >
>
> Sweetbread is the thymus glands. Two of them:
> skinnier one in the throat and bigger rounder one near
> the heart They tend to disappear as an animal ages, so
> it means it was a younger animal.
>
> They're known as the ultimate organ meat.
>
> Sweetbreads tend to be coveted by chefs for human
> consumption, so it's kind of surprising it was in
> there, except that they are pretty perishable.
>
> tom
>
>
>
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Messages in this topic (5)
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5c. Re: Exciting Discovery Close to Home!
Posted by: "JustTom" general.woundwort@yahoo.com general.woundwort
Date: Fri Nov 9, 2007 5:18 am ((PST))
>Giselle <megan.giselle@gmail.com> wrote:
>Sweetbread can also be pancreas, and thats more likely, I think.Yep, you're right, sorry about that. I forgot that there are two sources of "sweetbread". The gland ones I mentioned, and the stomach ones you mentioned. As you say, her haul is probably the pancreas. I've never eaten either, or a chitlin for that matter, so my references are usually older relatives who say "Boy, I sure wish I had a mess of sweetbread", followed by me or someone else having to ask what that was. I think they did it just to hear someone say "eewww."
With some of the heated debate in other threads about new marketing techniques, it's interesting that sweetbreads are neither bread nor sweet. I wonder if it was butchers that figured out long ago that nobody would pay money for "glands", "guts" or "offal", so found a pleasant new label for it to get it to sell, or creative rural mothers trying to get their kids to eat some of the meat parts left over from butchering day.
Since this is organ meat were talking about, I'd guess you'd have to take it slow in introducing it, and limit the portion, or just toss it in all together and let em have at it?
tom
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Messages in this topic (5)
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6a. Re: Diarrhea...Loose Stools
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 7:46 pm ((PST))
>My 9 # yorkie just had a loose stool, the first I have noticed today.
>Yesterday she had tilipia. No other symptoms.
Hi. I have a tilapia story with my dog. Tilapia was first fish that I tried to introduceand,she ate it fine but after 2 hours from eating,she whined and,scratched the door and rang the bell for potty and,as soon as she is out from house,she had this bright green gooey poo,and she went poo some more time.She was miserable..She had some butt-wash bath too.
After the incident, she does not like to eat Tilapia.. that is ok by me because I can offer other fish to her.
you titled "diarrhea..loose stool" but was it like green like my dog's??
If it was controlable and no accident in house,it is not diarrhea. Just add more bone to meal.
If dog is acting like mine did,better to offer plenty of water to avoid dehydration and, fasting will be good.
yassy
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Messages in this topic (3)
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6b. Re: Diarrhea...Loose Stools
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 7:46 pm ((PST))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "margo532001" <semitruestory@...>
wrote:
>
> Should I feed her normal meal tonight?
One loose stool in several months is no big deal. You will see
others over time. Yes, normal meal tonight although you have
probably already fed it. :)
> I have some Slippery Elm Bark capsules (370 mg).... should I
> give her this?
No need to.
> Any help is appreciated.
NOthing ot help. One loose stool it nothing to worry about. Even I
have them sometimes. :) :) :)
Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
Feeding Raw since October 2002
"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale
Messages in this topic (3)
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7a. Re: Dogs eating fruit and vegetables?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 7:47 pm ((PST))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "sarahfalkner"
<Sarah.Falkner@...> wrote:
>
> and of course as any
> human knows who's ever just wanted the crunch of something
> that comes out of a foil
> bag, or the comforting softness of mashed potatoes or mac
> and cheese, sometimes it's
> even just all about the texture. But, there might be something
else going on there...
Or there might not.
> Though observations of animals healing themselves with
> natural remedies have been
> documented as long ago as ancient Rome and China,
> contemporary animal behaviorists
> are really only now starting to pay serious attention to this
> area of their work.
Personally, I just don't endow animals with any mystical powers.
Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
Feeding Raw since October 2002
"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale
Messages in this topic (19)
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8a. Re: Please explain this..
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 9:16 pm ((PST))
woofwoofgrrl <cmc4lists1@...> wrote:
> Doesn't a nice hole in the
> backyard bushes effectively make an airtight 'container'?
*****
Nope, dirt has lots of air in it. Especially dirt that was scratched
up, then reheaped atop the prize. Even bad dirt (clayey and/or
compacted) is better dirt after its been aerated.
Chris O
Messages in this topic (13)
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8b. Re: Please explain this..
Posted by: "Lisa S." acbrio@shaw.ca trzazz
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 11:07 pm ((PST))
LOL ! That is quite funny. It was the same sort of thing for my dog
and his first rabbit organs. When my dog ate his first skinned
rabbit, he left the organs in a neat little blob on the ground. I
scooped them up, wrapped them in plastic, and put them in the fridge,
then forgot about them for a week or a week and a half or so. Maybe
the plastic accelerated the resulting smell. They were really
foul-smelling by the time I finally remembered them. I took them
outside with my very excited dog bouncing alongside, who could
probably smell them a mile away. He ate them right up, stink and all,
like it was a special treat. No problem afterwards. With the next
rabbit, he ate the fresh rabbit organs right along with the rest of
the rabbit, no stink required ;-) .
- Lisa S.
and Brio (Brio high-fives Ruffian. "Stinky things are yummy")
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "helpshelteranimals"
<helpshelteranimals@...> wrote:
> My dog actually prefers his meat 'aged'. When I first introduced him
> to chicken gizzards he wanted nothing to do with them for 2 days.
> They got pushed to the back of the fridge and I forgot about them
> till a week later. They were NASTY smelling and the juice around
> them turned green. As soon as I opened the container to dump them
> out Ruffian came running. I have them to him and he gobbled them
> right up, no ill effects...not even soupy poos!
>
> AG & Ruffian (mystery mutt)
>
Messages in this topic (13)
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8c. Re: Please explain this..
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Nov 9, 2007 1:50 am ((PST))
I try not to keep anything I defrost in the fridge tightly covered, if its
in a plastic container of any kind, I leave the lid off or the bag open. If
its Big Food that hasn't been eaten entirely, I just wrap it in a kitchen
towel when I put it back in the fridge. The meat dries out a bit, but it
doesn't slime up or get as smelly.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey
On Nov 8, 2007 7:02 PM, woofwoofgrrl <cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the tip on the non-airtight container - does it actually stay
>
> 'fresher' longer, or does it just get slimy?
>
> <snip>
>
> Christine
>
> Andrea > Just a side note, I try to keep my dog food in a large plastic
> tub
>
> > with a lid on it. Keeping food in an airtight baggie encourages
> > anerobic bacteria to start growing which are pretty different than
> > what normally grows on, say, something buried in the yard. Keeping
> > food in an open air container keeps it from getting slimy and super
> > gross. Something to look into.
>
>
>
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Messages in this topic (13)
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8d. Re: Please explain this..
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Nov 9, 2007 6:33 am ((PST))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "totaly_his" <totaly_his@...> wrote:
> Andrea, thanks for the suggestion about putting the meat in a tub.
> Would a Tupperware contain be what you are talking about?
Yup, I have one that fits under the meat/cheese drawer in my fridge.
That area always bothered me because you can't fit milk or anything
tall there anyay.
Andrea
Messages in this topic (13)
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9a. ADMIN/Re: Prices of turkey, chicken, freezer question
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 9:22 pm ((PST))
Okay, let's just stop this thread in ALL its permutations. No more.
Further postings will not be necessary. If someone wants to discuss
the price of turkey and chicken, and freezers, start a new subject line
entirely.
Chris O
Mod Team
Messages in this topic (3)
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10a. Throwing up Water All Day!
Posted by: "temy1102" ahn.tammy@gmail.com temy1102
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 11:08 pm ((PST))
Last night Grover had leftovers of some tuna pieces with a turkey wing
for dinner. Today she threw up water 4 times. Once while no one was
home in the living room, once while in a car, once (a lot) at the dog
park, and just now again on the sofa. I have not fed her dinner today
because she normally eats every other day, and because I'm afraid of
her stomach being upset and making her feel worse.
I know that a very bony meal can make her hack up some bile and bone
fragments,something that's maybe happened once with her... but she's
NEVER been the type of dog to puke water before/after exercise.
Anyone else have this happen to their dog? Do you think it was her
weird hodgepodge meal last night?
We're going straight to the vet tomorrow - at this rate, with her
staph infection, her recurring wetting the bed habit, and now this,
she's turning my hair gray. I'm so worried about her!
-Tammy & Grover
Messages in this topic (2)
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10b. Re: Throwing up Water All Day!
Posted by: "iumadness64" iumadness64@yahoo.com iumadness64
Date: Fri Nov 9, 2007 4:34 am ((PST))
Tammy, I myself am fairly new to raw feeding, but my approach to my
health and the health of my dogs is typically a more common sense
approach IMO. It could be something as simple as the dog as contracted
a viral and is fighting it. It could be stress built up and it is her
body letting her (and you) know it needs to slow down, rest and
recoup. It could be something more serious. Only you know your dog.
What do you do when you are throwing up? I know when I do, and am
having trouble keeping things down...I stay home, rest, keep warm and
try to eat and drink small portions until my body will accept it. As
in humans, it is possible that your dog was sick up to a week before
showing these signs. If your dog has a good immune system, she may be
ok. You may just have to ride out the storm. Ultimately the decision
is yours.
I don't take health lightly, so please don't get that impression, but
if we google ever symptom we encounter, we will absorb the worst case
scenario and usually over react. Just my 2 cents worth.
Mark, Faith & Hope
Messages in this topic (2)
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11a. starting my golden on a healthy raw diet
Posted by: "sullynory" sullynory@yahoo.com sullynory
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 11:09 pm ((PST))
+++Mod note: Hi Bob, welcome to the group. Please don't write in all capitals as it means you're shouting at us! thx. +++++++
HI MY NAME IS BOB AND I AM NEW TO THE GROUP, I WAS HOPING FOR MEAL
SUGGESTIONS FOR MY 4 YEAR OLD GOLDEN RETRIEVER, HE WAYS 80 POUNDS , AND
I HAVE BEEN FEEDING HIM INNOVA ADULT FOOD, WOULD LIKE TO SWITCH, BUT
WOULD LIKE COMPLETE MEAL SUGGESTIONS , I HAVE BEEN FEEDING TWICE DAILY,
HE IS ACTIVE , WE BIKE 3 MILES EVERY OTHER DAY ,AND COMPETE IN
OBEDIENCE,THANKS BOB
Messages in this topic (2)
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11b. Re: starting my golden on a healthy raw diet
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Nov 9, 2007 1:21 am ((PST))
Hi, Bob!
Here's some links to websites and archived messages;
http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html
http://www.rawlearning.com/supplementmyths.html
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html
*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374 *
*post # 141374*
TC and post if you have more questions!
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey
On Nov 9, 2007 1:42 AM, sullynory <sullynory@yahoo.com> wrote:
> +++Mod note: Hi Bob, welcome to the group. Please don't write in all
> capitals as it means you're shouting at us! thx. +++++++
>
> HI MY NAME IS BOB AND I AM NEW TO THE GROUP, I WAS HOPING FOR MEAL
> SUGGESTIONS FOR MY 4 YEAR OLD GOLDEN RETRIEVER, HE WAYS 80 POUNDS , AND
> I HAVE BEEN FEEDING HIM INNOVA ADULT FOOD, WOULD LIKE TO SWITCH, BUT
> WOULD LIKE COMPLETE MEAL SUGGESTIONS , I HAVE BEEN FEEDING TWICE DAILY,
> HE IS ACTIVE , WE BIKE 3 MILES EVERY OTHER DAY ,AND COMPETE IN
> OBEDIENCE,THANKS BOB
>
>
>
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Messages in this topic (2)
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12a. Re: weird poop and rash.....
Posted by: "patti.h310" patti.h310@yahoo.com patti.h310
Date: Fri Nov 9, 2007 6:09 am ((PST))
> If he had the rash before going on raw and it has never gone away
> since starting raw, I would think whatever he has is not food
> related. Could be an allergy to something in his enviornment. Could
> be an infection.
>
I'll try not to get too long winded....Our poor baby Finni, on July
5th, was chasing a deer at full speed and hyperextended his wrist.
This injury doesn't heal by itself...surgery was our only option. A
brutal procedure called carpal arthrodesis where the wrist joint is
fused and a plate (with 9 screws) holds it in place. During his
recovery period I wanted to do everything I could to heal him the best
I could...thats when I started researching raw feeding. He was on
antibiotics and the rash did heal up then it was gone. Now its back.
His stools were perfect in the beginning of raw now they're firm
surrounded by liquid.
Patti
Messages in this topic (5)
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13a. Re: excessive shedding
Posted by: "dmoore930" dmoore930@yahoo.com dmoore930
Date: Fri Nov 9, 2007 6:09 am ((PST))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "maxieii" <maxieii@...> wrote:
> i have a belgian sheepdog and we've been raw since September and a
in the past monthshe has been shedding like crazy at first
Been raw since May/June and when I first switched my black lab, Zoey,
was shedding so bad I thought all her hair would fall out. I'm happy
to say that she now has the most beautiful coat I've ever seen and she
no longer has that 'dandruff' when you give her a really good
scratch. The only thing she get's besides raw (meat,bones,organs)is a
thyroid pill and a fish oil. Other dog, ShihTzu/Wheaton(or Tibetan)
mix,Sadie, doesn't shed but she looks really good too. Doesn't seem
like her hair mats as much as it used to. Keep sweeping, it will get
better! Diana
Messages in this topic (8)
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