[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12253

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: my dog doesn't like raw.
From: rosey031801
1b. Re: my dog doesn't like raw.
From: costrowski75
1c. Re: my dog doesn't like raw.
From: moemahood@aol.com
1d. Re: my dog doesn't like raw.
From: blueberry5297
1e. Re: my dog doesn't like raw.
From: merril Woolf
1f. Re: my dog doesn't like raw.
From: Yasuko herron

2a. Re: Question on Table scraps to a raw fed dog
From: costrowski75
2b. Re: Question on Table scraps to a raw fed dog
From: jaygaughan

3a. ADMIN/Re: pink eye
From: costrowski75

4.1. Re: 80/10/10 vs 'whole prey' -Large breed puppies
From: Tina Berry
4.2. Re: 80/10/10 vs 'whole prey' -Large breed puppies
From: costrowski75

5a. Re: Dog not digesting food & food aggression ?
From: reachpanda
5b. Re: Dog not digesting food & food aggression ?
From: Andrea

6a. Re: Feeding Pork
From: Sonja
6b. Re: Feeding Pork
From: costrowski75
6c. Re: Feeding Pork
From: Sandee Lee
6d. Re: Feeding Pork
From: girlndocs

7a. Vension Scraps - Tina
From: krystal_brr
7b. Re: Vension Scraps - Tina
From: Tina Berry
7c. Re: Vension Scraps - Tina
From: krystal_brr
7d. Re: Vension Scraps - Tina
From: Tina Berry

8a. Re: Location: Eastern Washington/Northern Idaho
From: Patty Linden
8b. Re: Location: Eastern Washington/Northern Idaho
From: Sandee Lee

9. Re:
From: Sandee Lee

10a. Re: Husband thinks dog is still hungry
From: mmc2315

Messages
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1a. Re: my dog doesn't like raw.
Posted by: "rosey031801" rosey031801@sbcglobal.net rosey031801
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 9:23 am ((PST))

If your family is not going to agree that the raw meat is better for
your dog, you will always have an issue. It is not good to give dogs
kibble and raw meat, but I suppose it's better than just kibble.
Sometimes after giving meat, they don't want the kibble. Sometimes they
will eat both because the kibble is like junk food to them (it tastes
good). I do know of a beagle who gets all of it and he is fine. His
owner gives him cooked rice and kibble. I don't agree with her...
Sometimes I empty the bowl of kibble back in the bag when she's not
home. He shares the same yard with my dog so he usually gets my dogs
raw meat leftovers. My dog never finishes his meal and I feed outside.
This 18 year old beagle loves the meat and will usually leave the
kibble in his bowl after eating meat. If I had to plan it I would give
the meat several (12) hours away from the kibble so it doesn't cause
digest problems. Good luck! Maybe in time, the family will come around.
Keep trying!
Cheryl

Messages in this topic (8)
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1b. Re: my dog doesn't like raw.
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 9:59 am ((PST))

"blueberry5297" <blueberry5297@...> wrote:
>
> I feel like I may be the only one here.. But my dog doesn't like
raw.
*****
Jeni, you have indeed inadvertently taught your dog to be a picky
eater and in that regard you are not at all alone.

I think you should go back to the last successful raw food you fed
and start over, minus the catering and fussing and trying to please
him.

If you are sure he is otherwise healthy (including his mouth), then
let him figure out that what is offered for dinner is dinner, not one
of many options. No buffet; dinner is served, the kitchen is closed.

IF he is healthy, he'll eat when he's hungry. You know you done
wrong, now do it right.

Kibble is not a healthy substitute for real food.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
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1c. Re: my dog doesn't like raw.
Posted by: "moemahood@aol.com" moemahood@aol.com selfemployedhealth
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:08 am ((PST))

Not to start a family war, but is it your dog or your stepdads dog.? It seems he is overstepping his boundries if it isn't his dog.

My sister lives with me and she is not happy about my decision to feed raw.? But, like I told her, if she wants to decide what the animal's eat she should get her own dog.?

Maureen, who had to lay the law down in her own house and threw out a lot of puperoni's in the process.

Starving him until he ate it wouldn't work either, because my step-
dad absolutely will not stop giving him table scraps and filling his
bowl with kibble when it's empty.

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Messages in this topic (8)
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1d. Re: my dog doesn't like raw.
Posted by: "blueberry5297" blueberry5297@yahoo.com blueberry5297
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:34 am ((PST))

My problems with my step-dad go much deeper than my dog, unfortunately.
But that's not a conversation for this forum. I appreciate you advice
though, thank you.

Messages in this topic (8)
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1e. Re: my dog doesn't like raw.
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 12:02 pm ((PST))

> Has anyone else ever had this problem? How did you resolve it, or did
> you?
>
> Right now I'm trying to see if I can work out a meal plan for him
> that includes home cooked foods [since he seems to like cooked food
> best out of every way of feeding him I've tried] and a little raw if
> I can get him to eat it. I just don't know how.. Any thoughts?
>
> Any help or advice you can give me I really appreciate. I'm starting
> to wonder if raw may just not be for my dog since he doesn't like it
> nearly as much as the rest seem to.
>
> - Jeni & Blue -

Jeni,

First off, what breed/size dog is he? What does he weigh and do you or your vet think
he's overweight?
Do you think he's fit and does he get lots of exercise in all forms?

Not knowing the breed and size, I can only guess at what his problem is, but assuming
he's a robust healthy dog of medium size and age, he sounds like he's either not exercised
enough or is getting too much food.
He might be fat?? (you'll have to do the pinch test and let us know) or just not getting
enough daily stimulation to increase his apetite and interest in food.

He might also just be picky which is caused by you or your step-father. Only you and your
dad can fix that problem.
Throw away the kibble and stop cooking up foods for him. Get him out running and give
him lots of variety of interesting and nutritious foods. Just give him the food and take it
up if it's not all consumed. Don't hover and don't leave it out all day. Just wait for about
15 minutes then take up what's left.
Don't feed again until the next meal. Keep him busy in the mean-time and give him an
interesting day. Make his life one of variety and keep his mind and body on the move.
Then feed him good interesting foods. Take up what he doesn't eat.

Repeat daily.

Let us know more about your dog and his life style. Maybe there are other factors at work
here.

Merril

Messages in this topic (8)
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1f. Re: my dog doesn't like raw.
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 1:22 pm ((PST))

>Right now I'm trying to see if I can work out a meal plan for him
> that includes home cooked foods [since he seems to like cooked food
> best out of every way of feeding him I've tried

Hi,Jeni. I think dog tends to "look" liking cooked food because warming the food brings more smell to dogs and entice them to eat.

If you cook big hunk of steak and put on one plate,and put raw meat right from the fridge on plate,I am sure dog would eat cooked steak in a seconds.Cook foods smell stronger than non-cooked,I think.

If you put kibble in bowl and in other bowl,put raw food, newbie dogs would go for kibble due stronger good smell from kibble with sprayed fat,additive etc.

Some dogs has no prob in transition accepting raw food and,eats like they had been eating them long years,but other dogs have hard time accepting it as food because of texture and bland flavor etc.

So,my suggestions are...

1> sit back and relax(dog could sense your feeling pretty good) ,no hunching over

2>Don't trade food with something you know your dog eats;in this case,don't cook all food for your dog.If you keep cooking them,then,dogs can strike on you until you give up and cook everything the way the dog likes.

3>Try bring smell more on raw food to entice the dog to eat

you can do..
a>quick sear,and les and less searing as days go by
b>put food in zip bag and put it into warm water and bring the food to warm temp
c> serve at room temp(some dogs like it frozen depending on food items)

4>Try making slit in meat and if it did not help,try ribborn the meat

5>try adding flavoring;garlic etc

The dogs would learn the things you place infront of them is real food and eat it.

You are the one to control what is going into your precious dog's tum not dog himself.
You know waht is better for him.

Once he learns to eat raw food,he would enjoy it and you be happy you did not change diet to home-cooked diet.Raw is better..

Good luck,he just needs adjusting time for his taste buzz:-P

yassy

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Messages in this topic (8)
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2a. Re: Question on Table scraps to a raw fed dog
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 9:32 am ((PST))

"jaygaughan" <jaygaughan@...> wrote:
I'm
> wondering if there is any down side to feeding him table scraps.
*****
Too much cooked fat is not a good idea. And too much pasta would
similarly be a bad idea. And cooked bones are just plain
unacceptable. And of course if you find table scraps taking up room
better occupied by species appropriate foods, you should cut back on
scraps.

Otherwise, I think scraps can be useful. Not necessarily brilliant but
certainly feeding sensible scraps is better than just throwing stuff
away. I cannot bring myself to feeding pasta to my dogs, but I do
offer meat and veggie scraps.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
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2b. Re: Question on Table scraps to a raw fed dog
Posted by: "jaygaughan" jaygaughan@yahoo.com jaygaughan
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 11:42 am ((PST))

Thank you all very much. So many little things I never thought of
keep popping up in my head since this is my first experience with raw
feeding.

Little clarifications, I will be picking up my new puppy in a few
weeks. My breeder feeds her dogs raw and will have already started my
little guy off right. She will also have a package of what she
recommends and what the dog has already been eating. So Luther or
Elvis (not sure yet) will be off to a great start.

I know NO cooked bones get fed to the dog for food or fun chew toys.

I train my dogs very well. I wish everyone did. It's not an option
for me especially with a BIG DOG. He will be coming everywhere with
me like all my others did including coming to the practices of the
teams I coach.

This is my third Dane and I'm well aware of how their heads are above
most tables. He will be trained to respect boundaries and rules with
someone watching or not. I will and have left food out in the dogs
reach to continually test them. I'll also have a release signal for
feeding so my daughter will be able to feed him without getting
knocked over when putting food in his dish.
The only areas he'll be allowed to eat at are his feeding stand and
outside. I catch one of my kids breaking rules and feeding him at my
table they might be getting their own feeding stand on the deck. LOL

My children are all very big kids now (my 16 yr old is 6'4") so I
don't have to worry about the dogs tail anymore. When they were small
my other Dane would club them with his swinging night stick and level
them. Very funny stuff. At least for me. They needed to be trained to
put their arms up and block the tail shots. I also remember how
everything on the lower tables in the house got dusted off onto the
floor. House is being puppy proofed now.

Thanks again everyone. I CAN'T WAIT!!!

Jay

Messages in this topic (9)
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3a. ADMIN/Re: pink eye
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 9:39 am ((PST))

Please take all non-diet recommendations to RawChat or DogHealth.

Newcomers, please be advised. Veterans, you should know this by now.
Chris O
Mod Team

Messages in this topic (5)
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4.1. Re: 80/10/10 vs 'whole prey' -Large breed puppies
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:08 am ((PST))

"Question: Would this still apply to growing large breed puppies? Also would
feeding a fair bit of heart instead of the beef be okay?"

Absolutely!! Our pups got 50% beef heart when they were weaned at 4 weeks
and lots of venison. heart is rich, but a great source of red muscle meat.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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Messages in this topic (30)
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4.2. Re: 80/10/10 vs 'whole prey' -Large breed puppies
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:28 am ((PST))

"Tina Berry" <k9baron@...> wrote:
Our pups got 50% beef heart when they were weaned at 4 weeks
> and lots of venison. heart is rich, but a great source of red muscle
meat.
*****
I doubt very much that heart is any "richer" than venison. Or for that
matter, pork. "Rich" happens when the digestive system is not
accustomed to eating a new food or to eating more food than would
normally be offered.

The recommendation for feeding heart is the same as for feeding venison
or pork or beef or lamb or sardines or Vitamin C: introduce new foods
gently and feed to bowel tolerance; backing off when you've fed more
than the dog/cat/human can comfortably digest.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (30)
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5a. Re: Dog not digesting food & food aggression ?
Posted by: "reachpanda" reachpanda@hotmail.com reachpanda
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:08 am ((PST))

Yes, they checked for everything and she's been dewormed. I do leave
the food in biggish pieces, but I'll try partially freezing it.
Hopefully that will slow her down. Is 1 lb/day enough? She just can't
seem to gain weight. I'm guessing she should be 50-55 lbs.

I'm hesitant to try taking food away from her since she has a slight
food aggression. I'm not afraid of HER (it's not that bad), but won't
taking her food reinforce the aggressive protection of food? I think
that's why she eats so fast, so no one can take it away.

Andrea

>
> Did the vet check for worms and other things? If she has intestinal
> parasites it would definitely affect her digestion. Instead of using
> chemical dewormers I would suggest you give her food grade
> diatomaceous earth (DE) if she does have anything.
>
> So, feed bigger food or partially frozen food to get your girl to
> chew her food. If her poo continues to be sloppy or gelatinous you
> might want to take a stool sample to the vet and have them check for
> anything and everything.
>
> Andrea

Messages in this topic (6)
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5b. Re: Dog not digesting food & food aggression ?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 11:53 am ((PST))

You said she's a small rottie mix, so I think she can probably do
with more than a pound a day. My 60lb GSP mix eats more than a pound
a day. Maybe a whole frozen chicken would be good for her to work
on? You don't want to let her eat the whole thing because you'll
probably get loose stools again, but a partially frozen whole chicken
will be really cumbersome and more difficult to eat which would slow
her down a lot.

Food agression is more of a topic for rawchat, but quickly I'll say
you can make a game of trading food to work on it. Whenever you
approach her food you should always have another high value food item
to offer her in return. Maybe a favorite treat. If you teach her
that you aren't stealing from her, just trading, it will help a lot.
If you want we can take the topic to rawchat, lots of people have
great methods for helping food aggressive dogs.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "reachpanda" <reachpanda@...>
wrote:

> I do leave the food in biggish pieces, but I'll try partially
> freezing it. Hopefully that will slow her down. Is 1 lb/day enough?
> She just can't seem to gain weight.

Messages in this topic (6)
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6a. Re: Feeding Pork
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:08 am ((PST))

I'm in Southern California and can almost always get unenhanced pork picnic shoulders and butt roasts for $0.89 - $0.99 lbs on sale.

I've heard some people are having trouble finding unenhanced pork in some parts of the country, though....

Sonja

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6b. Re: Feeding Pork
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:20 am ((PST))

cynthia iparraguirre <cyn7711@...> wrote:
>
> I want to introduce my Lab to pork; however, since I don't eat pork
myself, I am not familiar with "pork lingo
*****
Pork lingo: "Yum, good."

What cuts are better suited for my dog & what price should I expect
to pay for them?
*****
Virtually any pork part is usable. What determines any part's
appropriateness is how the size, shape and fat content suits your
dog's needs and of course your budget.

So for a Lab, tails might be too small but if they're not too small
for your Lab, when you find tails, buy some. Similarly, sliced hocks
are probably too small for a Lab but a whole--and meaty--hock would
be the right size IF your Lab is good with fat. A foot (aka trotter)
sliced is probably too small for your Lab but a whole foot (which is
usually longer than 12") might offer a great workout plus edible bone
and of course plenty of fat.

Spare ribs, brisket bone (also called riblets), shoulder roast, meaty
neck bones (not likely to be found but a good crusade), loin, raw
fresh ham (also called haunch)--these are all good meal or almost-
meal parts.

Snouts, ears, tails, heads, sometimes feet--these are good chew toys.

Most pork is inexpensive compared to similar part from a cow. Lots
of fat so you might want to introduce the meat gradually; nicely
edible bone.

Pork is often injected with flavor and moisturizing solutions; read
the labels carefully if you prefer not to buy enhanced meats.
Chris O

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6c. Re: Feeding Pork
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:30 am ((PST))

Butt roasts, blade roasts, shoulder roasts, fresh ham, slabs of
ribs...generally these go on sale for under $1/lb.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "cynthia iparraguirre" <cyn7711@yahoo.com>

> I want to introduce my Lab to pork; however, since I don't eat pork
myself, I am not familiar with "pork lingo". What cuts are better suited for
my dog & what price should I expect to pay for them?

Messages in this topic (20)
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6d. Re: Feeding Pork
Posted by: "girlndocs" girlndocs@hotmail.com girlndocs
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:42 am ((PST))

> Virtually any pork part is usable. What determines any part's
> appropriateness is how the size, shape and fat content suits your
> dog's needs and of course your budget.

Besides Chris' advice, it's not really necessary to know the "lingo"
to find pork that's good for your dog. After all, wild canids don't
order their meals by the cut :)

Most of the time store flyers will have a picture of the cut that's on
sale. Maybe a slightly idealized picture, but good enough for our
purposes. And you can always look at the actual cut in person, of
course. Your eyes can tell you everything you strictly need to know
about the cut.

Boneless hunks = great. Bone-in hunks covered with lots of meat =
great. Bits that are cartilage, bone and not much meat = chew toy. Aim
for hunks o meat in sizes that can be easily divided by the number of
pounds or size of chunk your dog eats per meal (Zoe eats about
2lbs/meal, so I try to buy even numbers of pounds).

Kristin

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7a. Vension Scraps - Tina
Posted by: "krystal_brr" rkbarr@hughes.net krystal_brr
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:08 am ((PST))

Quick question about the scraps...

I just started getting some, and I am not sure what I was expecting,
but I wasn't expecting all the fat and ligaments. Do you just feed
that as well, or do you just pick out chunks of meat?

Thanks

Krystal

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7b. Re: Vension Scraps - Tina
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:34 am ((PST))

"but I wasn't expecting all the fat and ligaments. Do you just feed that as
well, or do you just pick out chunks of meat?"

I feed it all but depending on if my dogs are heavier or thinner I will pick
out the large hunks of fat and pitch them. I feed pretty lean, but now that
it is getting colder here, I will feed more fat, depends on the fat on my
dogs ;-) The girls are lean, the boys tend to put on weight with too much
fat. So it depends on your dogs. But I feed all the rest in the scrap
pile. (watch for arrow heads and bullets).
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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7c. Re: Vension Scraps - Tina
Posted by: "krystal_brr" rkbarr@hughes.net krystal_brr
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 11:36 am ((PST))

> it is getting colder here, I will feed more fat, depends on the fat
on my
> dogs ;-)

Thanks!

My ridgebacks are both very lean so I was thinking the fat would be OK,
especially now that it looks like winter is here. Snow in our forecast
for tomorrow.

I am still getting used to feeding them stuff that isn't exactly
appetizing to me:-)

Krystal

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7d. Re: Vension Scraps - Tina
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 12:02 pm ((PST))

"I am still getting used to feeding them stuff that isn't exactly appetizing
to me:-)"

LOL yeah, wait til some meat gets a little "ripe" and you get yourself to
feed it to them anyway - peeewuuuuu.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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8a. Re: Location: Eastern Washington/Northern Idaho
Posted by: "Patty Linden" pattykat3@yahoo.com pattykat3
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:08 am ((PST))

Hi Tina,
That is so generous of you to offer the liver. My dog is not ready to eat liver yet, or I would take you up on your offer. I just wanted to tell you that I also live in Spokane (along Northwest Blvd.)--and it was great for me to hear that another raw feeder lived here!
:-) Patty

macluerssen <macluerssen@yahoo.com> wrote: Hi everybody! We have friends who just slaughtered beef cows, and we
got a couple of livers, some tongue, kidney and heart for free. It's
a LOT of food...we're planning to pair it up for our 2 dogs with some
of the turkey we bought for under 60 cents/lb. this week! But it's
really more than we need. So I figured I'd post it on here, we live
in Spokane, Washington.

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8b. Re: Location: Eastern Washington/Northern Idaho
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:38 am ((PST))

Tina,

If you still have the liver, hubby is coming to Spokane tomorrow. You can
email me privately.....
rlee@plix.com

Thanks!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "macluerssen" <macluerssen@yahoo.com>

Hi everybody! We have friends who just slaughtered beef cows, and we
got a couple of livers, some tongue, kidney and heart for free. It's
a LOT of food...we're planning to pair it up for our 2 dogs with some
of the turkey we bought for under 60 cents/lb. this week! But it's
really more than we need. So I figured I'd post it on here, we live
in Spokane, Washington. Is there anybody on this list who lives
somewhat near here, who might want a bucket of liver? We cut it up
last night into 4-6 oz. chunks, and it's in the freezer right now.
Let me know if you're local and we'll meet up!

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9. Re:
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:35 am ((PST))

Autumn,

Pork bones are softer and entirely edible by most dogs. The concern with
steak bones is the sharp edges from being cut.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "autumn" <autumnji@aol.com>

thank you for stating this. i just started feeding
more than chicken and wasn't sure about letting her
eat the entire bone-in bone. last night i let her
work on the pork steak bone for about 20 min.

was concerned for cumulative teeth wear and possible
choking as it got smaller.

autumn & bella (2 y/o 7# chi minpin, 2 months raw)

< but they are cumulative.
Beef ribs are great exercise if fed in slabs and the bones removed
when the meat, gristle, etc. is gone. Generally they are too hard for
most dogs to consume.

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10a. Re: Husband thinks dog is still hungry
Posted by: "mmc2315" m.chelap@sbcglobal.net mmc2315
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 12:23 pm ((PST))

"blueberry5297" wrote:

> That sounds like he may be a underweight, to me. I'm no dog expert, but
> as far as I know a dog should have a defined waist, but you shouldn't
> be able to feel the spine very easily and you shouldn't be able to see
> more than the last rib or two while looking at him standing. When you
> feel the ribs, it should be difficult to feel most of them because
> there should be a layer of fat over them, but not so much that you
> can't feel them at ALL. Does that make sense?

Yes, it makes sense, and I'll keep an eye on his build as we try to figure out how much to feed
him. I can't do the visual check standing above him very well because of his unruly coarse
hair, except for his waist.

Thanks!

Michelle

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