[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12255

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Calcium:Phosphorous
From: Casey Post
1b. Re: Calcium:Phosphorous
From: Sandee Lee
1c. Re: Calcium:Phosphorous
From: carnesbill

2a. Re: Poop does not look good - yellow
From: Casey Post
2b. Re: Poop does not look good - yellow
From: Sandee Lee
2c. Re: Poop does not look good - yellow
From: carnesbill

3a. OVER 10,000 Members !!!!
From: halojo45
3b. Re: OVER 10,000 Members !!!!
From: Barb

4a. Re: Diarrhea and vomiting seem unusual: opinions, please
From: Giselle

5.1. Re: 80/10/10 vs 'whole prey' -Large breed puppies
From: Loraine Jesse
5.2. Re: 80/10/10 vs 'whole prey' -Large breed puppies
From: Loraine Jesse
5.3. Re: 80/10/10 vs 'whole prey' -Large breed puppies
From: costrowski75
5.4. Re: 80/10/10 vs 'whole prey' -Large breed puppies
From: carnesbill
5.5. Re: 80/10/10 vs 'whole prey' -Large breed puppies
From: diannem200400

6a. excessive shedding
From: maxieii
6b. Re: excessive shedding
From: Giselle

7a. Re: SMELLY LAMB SHANKS???
From: costrowski75
7b. Re: SMELLY LAMB SHANKS???
From: johkemp
7c. Re: SMELLY LAMB SHANKS???
From: johkemp
7d. Re: SMELLY LAMB SHANKS???
From: Di

8. Re: Calcium/Phosphorous
From: Michael Moore

9.1. Re: Grass Eating -- MINE TOO!!
From: Pi

10. E coli recall - should I keep or toss recalled beef ribs ?
From: Lisa S.

11a. Re: price of turkey, chicken; freezer question
From: Morledzep@aol.com

12. Not Eating - Depressed?
From: Me

Messages
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1a. Re: Calcium:Phosphorous
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 6:48 pm ((PST))

Oh Deborah, I'm not sure where to start...

First off, let me say that I understand your concerns with the Ca:Phos
ratios - I had a cat in renal failure, so I kept a very tight reign on the
numbers for him...but that was in my early days of raw.

I have since learned better - that nature's plan of Ca:Phos is the perfect
balance and the numbers that pet food companies come up with are a
manufactured concept (as manufactured as their products, actually) and not
something to which we need to adhere. What we *really* need to look at is
nature's model, the prey animal. If you aim for whole foods and about
10-15% edible bone, 5-10% organ meats (with half of that being liver), and
the rest is MEAT, fat, skin, sinew, etc., then you'll be fine and dandy.

Your poodle is a wolf in poodle clothing. What she needs is proper wolf
food - not little backs and wings, but whole chicken quarters. She doesn't
need veggies, either. Your evening meal is not heavy in phosphorus at all,
so no need to worry on that count.

Truly - look into prey model feeding. It's not only easier on you, but
better for your girl.

Casey

Messages in this topic (4)
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1b. Re: Calcium:Phosphorous
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 7:09 pm ((PST))

Hi Deborah,

Smart dog to refuse frozen raw products! :)

If you feed prey model, you don't need to worry about calcium/phosphorous
ratios. "Balance" isn't necessary every meal, every day or every
week....over all your diet should consist of lots of lots of red meat, a
little bit of edible bone and some organs. That's as good as it gets.
Bones only need to be around 10% of the overall diet and will provide plenty
of calcium .

Wolves don't sit around their kill discussing how many bites of meat, fat,
organs or bones they've eaten. They eat what is available at the time and
make up for anything lacking later on. Relax...just feed your dog the diet
she was designed for.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "deborah_flick" <drdflick@qwest.net>

I'm new to this group and raw feeding my own concoctions rather than
prepared frozen raw
food, which my dog refuses to eat. My question concerns balancing, for lack
of a better term,
calcium and phosphorous. I feed my standard poodle youngster (14 mos)
chicken bones
(usually wings and back bones) in the morning. About 7-8 oz. This makes up
about half of
her diet in ounces. Most evenings I feed a veggie mix with raw turkey and
occassionally beef
or lamb. Should the heavy load of phosphorous in the evening meal meat be
balanced with
the appropriate amount of calcium? If so, what is the best source? Or, is
she getting enough
calcium in the morning meal of chicken bones and no need to worry about
adding calcium to
the evening meal? I want a 1:1 ratio of calcium to phosphorous.

Messages in this topic (4)
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1c. Re: Calcium:Phosphorous
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 8:42 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "deborah_flick" <drdflick@...>
wrote:
>
> I feed my standard poodle youngster (14 mos) chicken bones
> (usually wings and back bones) in the morning.

Cool, I feed my 2 Great Danes 2 chicken backs each every morning. I
don't feed wings at all. They are too small.

> About 7-8 oz. This makes up about half of her diet in ounces.

Forget ounces, pounds, ratios, percentages, and fractions. They all
mean nothing with this diet. Feed whole animal parts like you are
doing and forget about weighing them. In 5 years of raw feeding, I
have never weighed a meal yet. Feed what you think you should and
watch your dog. If he starts gaining weight, feed less. Loosing
weight? Feed more.

> Most evenings I feed a veggie mix with raw turkey
> and occassionally beef or lamb.

Throw out the veggies and feed more beef or lamb. Veggies aren't
necessary in a dog's diet. They eat meat, bones and orgsns and
nothing else. And don't let anyone feed you the crap about stomach
contents of prey. They DON'T eat that. Many studies have proven it.

> Should the heavy load of phosphorous in the evening meal meat
> be balanced with the appropriate amount of calcium?

I already told you to forget ratios. They mean nothing and are
hypothetical numbers at best. Feed a variety of animal parts from a
variety of animals and all ratios will take care of themeselves.

> Or, is she getting enough calcium in the morning meal of
> chicken bones and no need to worry about adding calcium to
> the evening meal?

There you are worring about numbers again. :) Don't worry, your dog
is getting enough calcium. There is no doubt about that.

> I want a 1:1 ratio of calcium to phosphorous.

Why? Most prey animals are 2:1 or 3:1. Again these ratios are
arbitrary numbers.

Stop worrying so much. Feed a variety of animal parts from a
variety of animals. Feed mostly meat, some bone and some organs.
Exact amounts aren't critical. Do you worry about cal:phos in your
own diet? Do you worry about protein/fat in your own diet? Do you
worry about any ratio in your own diet? If you are like most of us
the answer is no. If you don't worry about those things in your own
diet, why worry about them in your dogs diet? Dogs are very
resilient animals. It is difficult to do this wrong. You are not
feeding numbers you are feeding meat, bones, and organs and not
feeding veggies nor supplements. Easy peasy.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Re: Poop does not look good - yellow
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 6:49 pm ((PST))

> But lately I've been having "poop situation". For several days his poop
> has been brigh yellow and very hard.

Sounds like a classic case of too much bone and too little meat. Try upping
his meat amounts and reducing bone and see if that doesn't help.

Casey

Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: Poop does not look good - yellow
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 7:49 pm ((PST))

Vickie,

I don't think you are doing anything wrong. There is no such thing as
"perfect poop"!! :)) Stools change depending upon what is fed.

Light colored, hard, yellow stools are the result of bony poultry
meals....dark, soft, moucusy the result of meaty, fatty or large meals or
organs.

Feed an appropriate diet...don't worry about stools.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "vickies_28" <vickies_28@yahoo.com>

But lately I've been having "poop situation". For several days his poop
has been brigh yellow and very hard. I saw a piece of bone in it once,
very sharp from chicken and then he threw up in the morning once (was
hungry, bile vomit cause didn't get his breakfast on time, and then
once in the evening, same thing, but it wasn' time yet for his meal).
Anyhow, the poop is kindda bothering me. Why is it yellow?
And now that I think about it, his poop is never "perfect". It's often
mucusy and sometimes too hard and sometimes too soft.

Messages in this topic (4)
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2c. Re: Poop does not look good - yellow
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 8:41 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "vickies_28" <vickies_28@...>
wrote:
>
> For several days his poop
> has been brigh yellow and very hard. I saw a piece of bone in
> it once, very sharp from chicken

I bet you are feeding mostly chicken. You are describing chicken
poop pretty well. Hehe, not chicken poop but dog poop after the dog
has been eating chicken. :) Don't worry about the bone. It is
nowhere nearly as sharp and it looks. If you are relatively new to
raw feeding, bone fragments in stools is not uncommon and will
happen occasionally forever.

> Anyhow, the poop is kindda bothering me. Why is it yellow?

Chicken tends to make yellow poop. Look at the color of chicken
meat. How could it produce dark poop? Red meat will produce dark
poop.

> And now that I think about it, his poop is never "perfect".

What goes in determines what comes out. Simple as that.

> What am I doing wrong?

The only thing you are doing wrong is worrying. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. OVER 10,000 Members !!!!
Posted by: "halojo45" hanne@hajo.us halojo45
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 7:01 pm ((PST))

Now --- THAT'S impressive !
Hanne

Messages in this topic (2)
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3b. Re: OVER 10,000 Members !!!!
Posted by: "Barb" behaven1@telus.net behavensnikko
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 7:25 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "halojo45" <hanne@...> wrote:
>
> Now --- THAT'S impressive !
> Hanne
>
That is Super Impressive!! Right on Rawfeeding!
Congrats to all!
Cheers/Barb
Behaven Shelties

Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Re: Diarrhea and vomiting seem unusual: opinions, please
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 7:12 pm ((PST))

KEWL!! Glad Henry is feeling lots better!

TC
Giselle

On Nov 7, 2007 9:18 AM, sarahfalkner <Sarah.Falkner@gmail.com> wrote:

> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com <rawfeeding%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
> > Keep us updated.
> >
> > Andrea
>
> Henry is much, much better! He's purring lots, eating skinless chicken
> breast and drinking
> water and broth, and letting me dose him with slippery elm; not yet 100%
> up to his usual
> antics but clearly well on the mend.
>
> That was scary for us yesterday, thanks Andrea, Giselle and everybody.
> Amazing what a
> double dose of lamb heart and a manky old cached bone can do even to
> fearless experienced
> gobblers of whole rabbits and ox hearts! I'd say his raw fed immune system
> has helped him
> rebound really quickly, though!
>
> All best,
>
> Sarah, hominid
> Henry & Ivan, felidae
> Quercus & Ilex, mustelidae
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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5.1. Re: 80/10/10 vs 'whole prey' -Large breed puppies
Posted by: "Loraine Jesse" rothburg@hotmail.com loraine_jesse
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 7:21 pm ((PST))

"The recommendation for feeding heart is the same as for feeding venison or pork or beef or lamb or sardines or Vitamin C: introduce new foods gently and feed to bowel tolerance; backing off when you've fed more than the dog/cat/human can comfortably digest."Chris O
Would it be okay to feed more heart than beef? I can now get heart for 50 cents a pound, but pay a whole lot more for beef.
Loraine Jessewww.rothburgrottweilers.com

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Messages in this topic (36)
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5.2. Re: 80/10/10 vs 'whole prey' -Large breed puppies
Posted by: "Loraine Jesse" rothburg@hotmail.com loraine_jesse
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 7:25 pm ((PST))

"Absolutely!! Our pups got 50% beef heart when they were weaned at 4 weeksand lots of venison. heart is rich, but a great source of red muscle meat."-- Tina Berry - MT

This is really good news.
Loraine Jessewww.rothburgrottweilers.com

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Messages in this topic (36)
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5.3. Re: 80/10/10 vs 'whole prey' -Large breed puppies
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 7:40 pm ((PST))

Loraine Jesse <rothburg@...> wrote:
> Would it be okay to feed more heart than beef? I can now get heart
for 50 cents a pound, but pay a whole lot more for beef.
*****
Yes, you can feed more beef heart than beef flesh, you can also feed
pork heart and chicken heart. All three count as red meat.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (36)
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5.4. Re: 80/10/10 vs 'whole prey' -Large breed puppies
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 8:41 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Loraine Jesse <rothburg@...> wrote:
>
> Would it be okay to feed more heart than beef? I can now get
> heart for 50 cents a pound, but pay a whole lot more for beef.

Stock up on it. Last time I had a chance to get it at that price, I
got 65lbs of it.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (36)
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5.5. Re: 80/10/10 vs 'whole prey' -Large breed puppies
Posted by: "diannem200400" diannem200400@yahoo.com diannem200400
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 9:36 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Loraine Jesse <rothburg@> wrote:
> > I can now get
> > heart for 50 cents a pound

> Stock up on it. Last time I had a chance to get it at that price, I
> got 65lbs of it.

If anyone lives within driving distance of Yakima, Washington, you can
get 40 lb. boxes of beef heart routinely for .49 per pound. Can also
get pork shoulder for .79 to .89 per pound and beef liver and beef
kidney for .59, pork tongue for .99 or less, beef shank for 1.09 lb,
etc. If you'll e-mail me privately, I will give you contact details.

Dianne M.

Messages in this topic (36)
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6a. excessive shedding
Posted by: "maxieii" maxieii@yahoo.com maxieii
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 7:24 pm ((PST))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.

i have a belgian sheepdog and we've been raw since September and a in the past month
she has been shedding like crazy at first i thought it was normal because of the change of
season. Had her groomed twice to get all the undercoat out, but now i still have top coat
all over my house? I am concerned is this normal should I stop feeding raw? I am also
giving her a multivitamin and fish oil capsules...

thank you...

Messages in this topic (2)
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6b. Re: excessive shedding
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:04 pm ((PST))

Hi, Maxie, is it?
You can ditch the multivit, but the Fish Oil caps are
good. Just make sure that they don't have any plant oils or flavorings
added.

A lot of dogs do a shed after switching to raw. Some shed normally, some
just shed a little more than normal, but others do a full body, all at once
shed. Its usually totally normal, if its not accompanied by any other
symptoms of concern. Most people report that the coat that comes in after a
shed of any type, is a fuller, shinier, healthier coat than before.

Brushing her out every day, and a bath once a week or so until the shed is
over with a pure castile or oatmeal shampoo and conditioner will help.

Here's some archived messages that others have posted about shedding;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/msearch?query=shedding&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8

Just in case the raw diet you're feeding needs tweaking, what *exactly* are
you feeding? Plenty of meat and protein variety? Edible bone? Liver and
other organs? How much? How often?

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Nov 7, 2007 10:11 PM, maxieii <maxieii@yahoo.com> wrote:

> MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.
>
> I have a Belgian Sheepdog and we've been raw since September and in the
> past month
> she has been shedding like crazy at first i thought it was normal because
> of the change of
> season. Had her groomed twice to get all the undercoat out, but now I
> still have top coat
> all over my house? I am concerned is this normal should I stop feeding
> raw? I am also
> giving her a multivitamin and fish oil capsules...
>
> thank you...
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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7a. Re: SMELLY LAMB SHANKS???
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 7:33 pm ((PST))

"miensasis" <kpmnlm@...> wrote:
>> Within a minute I had my son and husband from other rooms of the
house
> running into the kitchen and asking what the terrible smell was. Is
it
> normal for lamb to smell...umm...strong??? Since I don't have
> experience with lamb, I'm not sure if this is usual or not.
*****
IMO it's not normal for lamb shanks to reek. They tend to have a
stronger aroma than beef or chicken but they should smell fresh.

I once scored four legs o' lamb at the going going gone price of .99/lb
because they are were just beyond the expiration date and oh my did
they stink. But since I do not throw away lamb, I rinsed the legs off
and fed them and all dogs were happy and none the worse for the
experience.

If the stink freaks you out, take them back to the store--with an
expiry date of Nov. 13, they should not smell as you describe.

Somebody goofed is what I think.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
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7b. Re: SMELLY LAMB SHANKS???
Posted by: "johkemp" johkemp@yahoo.com.au johkemp
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 12:36 am ((PST))

It was in a very tightly sealed
> plastic wrap. And when I cut the wrapper off....whew....horrible!
> I'm definitely going to toss it.
>
Nancy,

Cryovacced (vacuum sealed) meat does last for a long time. If it was
off then take it back to where you bought it. Or at least let them
know. It was probably caused by improper storage or transport rather
than a problem with the seal.

Jo

>

Messages in this topic (8)
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7c. Re: SMELLY LAMB SHANKS???
Posted by: "johkemp" johkemp@yahoo.com.au johkemp
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 12:36 am ((PST))

(the package says they are from Australia)

Just a quick toot of the Australian horn but I wanted to let you all
know that the majority of meat from Australia is from grass fed
animals. A lot of you post that you supplement with fish oils to
counter the fact that the meat is from grain fed animals. We don't need
to do that here.

Due to the animals being paddock raised and grass fed our meat is also
a lot leaner than that produced by other nations. I feed a lot of
kangaroo too - a great lean game meat.

Jo

A proud Australian

Messages in this topic (8)
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7d. Re: SMELLY LAMB SHANKS???
Posted by: "Di" abbey_bern@yahoo.com.au abbey_bern
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 4:10 am ((PST))

Living in Australia all my life (over 40 years) and lamb being a major
part of our meat selection especially the leg of lamb baked dinner I
have never ever had a piece of lamb which has smelt as you described.
Something appears to have gone drastically wrong in the process before
you opened the plastic wrapper. Was there a small rip in the bag which
could have let the air in or was it really tight with no air in the
bag at all? It shouldn't have a really slimy greasy feel about it
either. Lamb shanks are always a favourite with my dogs and they
never get a gross smell after eating them. I would definately report
your concerns back to the store of purchase and hopefully they can
trace back and make sure the meat is being transported and stored
correctly as Aussie Lamb shouldn't have a fraction of the smell you
describe. Also did you buy them from a pet supplier or a supermarket?
Hope you have more luck if you try them again.
Di
Australia

Messages in this topic (8)
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8. Re: Calcium/Phosphorous
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 8:41 pm ((PST))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE REMEMBER TO TRIM YOUR MESSAGES

>>I'm new to this group and raw feeding my own concoctions rather than prepared frozen raw
food, which my dog refuses to eat. My question concerns balancing, for lack of a better term,
calcium and phosphorous. I feed my standard poodle youngster (14 mos) chicken bones
(usually wings and back bones) in the morning. About 7-8 oz. This makes up about half of
her diet in ounces. Most evenings I feed a veggie mix with raw turkey and occassionally beef
or lamb. Should the heavy load of phosphorous in the evening meal meat be balanced with
the appropriate amount of calcium? If so, what is the best source? Or, is she getting enough
calcium in the morning meal of chicken bones and no need to worry about adding calcium to
the evening meal? I want a 1:1 ratio of calcium to phosphorous.<<

Deborah -- I think you'll find that most on this list feed "our own connoctions" rather than prepared raw. IMO, your dog's diet will be better "balanced" if you drop the veggie mix. Balance is rather an artificial term, anyway, since Mother Nature doesn't worry about balance. Personally, I try to feed lots of pieces/parts of a variety of animals and frankly, I've never thought about ratios of calciuim to phosphorous. I've weaned a litter to raw, started multiple puppies and adults of various ages in the six + years of rawfeeding, and am quite casual about feeding my dogs! I feed quite a bit of beef heart, lots of pork in various forms, some chicken, venison when I can get it, eggs, fish on occasion, and elk rarely. Buffalo has made an appearance or two, along with rabbit. IMO if you simply follow Nature's guide, your dog's diet will be fine.

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

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9.1. Re: Grass Eating -- MINE TOO!!
Posted by: "Pi" scribblekitten@yahoo.com scribblekitten
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 12:36 am ((PST))

I think maybe my boy does it purely because he likes the taste of the
newest green shoots. But then again, he drools over peaches and would
rather steal an apple than a steak off the counter (he boggles my mind
sometimes)...

-Anna +Pirate (mmm fruit)
(And yes, he steals food off the counter if he can...I left a heaped
bowl of mashed potatoes on there one time, and came back to find a
Heeler-mouth sized chomp taken out of the side of it. It was like a
cartoon scene! We have since learned to put food in out-of-reach places!)

>> BUT maybe she has the desire to eat grass because her meals haven't
>> included red meat, less bone, and organs? Maybe she is eating the
>> grass to balance herself out?
>>
>
> That was the reason why my girl kept grazing. After starting to feed
> beef and venison for the most part, she rarely does it anymore.
>
> Jennifer
>
>

Messages in this topic (36)
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10. E coli recall - should I keep or toss recalled beef ribs ?
Posted by: "Lisa S." acbrio@shaw.ca trzazz
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 12:36 am ((PST))

Some beef products from my raw buying group from a certain supplier
have been recalled due to possible E coli contamination. Should I be
concerned about this ?

I have one of these products, some very meaty raw beef ribs. They
have been sitting in my freezer since the end of June (oops, I
ordered too many things), so that's about four months ago. Should I
be concerned about giving my dog these beef ribs ? My 2.5 year old
dog is quite healthy. He has no health problems, raw fed all his
life, and has never been vaccinated for anything. I have never seen
him get sick in any way. My inclination is that the ribs are fine for
my dog, but I thought I should ask. They were not cheap, so I am
quite reluctant to throw them in the garbage.

My dog has eaten a couple of these beef ribs months ago, before I
knew about the recall. Everything was fine.

- Lisa S.
and Brio
See Brio eat a whole, raw, furry rabbit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzCldGfvS40

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11a. Re: price of turkey, chicken; freezer question
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 1:48 am ((PST))

In a message dated 11/7/2007 5:18:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,
jenniferhell@web.de writes:

I so understand all of this. I have a problem with people who feed the
cheapest they can get although they could get better, because they
Just don't care. That is so sad and reminds me of people buying the
Cheapest doom nuggets, just because they're cheap.

***i probably shouldn't respond to this. But I'm gonna anyway.

The goal, at least in my mind, is to get the best we can with the money
allotted to us.

I REFUSE to pay extra for "organic" or "free range" or "all natural" or "cage
free" meat. To me these are just gimics for charging more for the same meat
animals we already buy for far less.

chickens, cows and pigs as we know them as meat animals are NOT animals that
occur naturally in the wild. There is no natural diet for them.

Herbivores that are raised in a pasture with grass to eat have higher O3
ratios than grainfed animals, but grass is far cheaper than grain, and fencing a
pasture is far less expensive than keeping them contained and fed from a
bucket.

And "organically raised" meat animals are still fed the same inappropriate
foods.. and still aren't required to be "pastured", the only requirement is that
they aren't given any medications or anti-biotics, so if they get sick and
need medical attention they are moved to the herd on the other side of the
property that isn't organic.

i just can't bring myself to pay extra for meat that requires less work and
less money to raise. Or for a name on a package that has no official meaning,
like "pastured" or "all natural".

and folks that look down their snotty noses at people that choose to buy food
that costs less even when they can afford to buy the more expensive meats
need a reality check.. or beaten severely about the head until some sense sinks
in.

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (14)
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12. Not Eating - Depressed?
Posted by: "Me" earthmoontide@yahoo.com.au earthmoontide
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 4:10 am ((PST))

Hi all. My maremma bitch hasn't been eating regularly for a little
while now, and I'm after advice. She's 13 months old and has been
brought up with chicken (flesh & bones) as her main diet, with
different meat/bones/skin/organs regularly appearing on the menu.

She appears happy most of the time, and has recently just undergone
her first season with no male visitors. Every now and then I'll
hear her 'sigh'.

She's a strong defender of our property, likes to spend the evening
inside with our family, and has recently been camping with us.
Other than that, everything is normal.

We have a completely "mainstream" vet in our town. I'm against
immunisation and try to do things as naturally as possible.
Visiting the vet has to be an absolutely last venture. Any ideas?

Any angry replies regarding my stance on immunisation need not reply.

Thanks,

EMT

Messages in this topic (1)
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