[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12257

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: E coli recall - should I keep or toss recalled beef ribs ?
From: costrowski75
1b. Re: E coli recall - should I keep or toss recalled beef ribs ?
From: krystal_brr

2a. Re: Not Eating - Depressed?
From: costrowski75

3a. ADMIN/Re: price of turkey, chicken; freezer question
From: costrowski75

4.1. Re: Feeding Pork
From: costrowski75
4.2. Re: Feeding Pork
From: steph.sorensen
4.3. Re: Feeding Pork
From: MORGAN LEWIS

5. Re: Organic vs non-organic
From: MORGAN LEWIS

6a. Re: Dogs eating fruit and vegetables?
From: carnesbill
6b. Re: Dogs eating fruit and vegetables?
From: Nataly A
6c. Re: Dogs eating fruit and vegetables?
From: costrowski75

7a. Re: slower maturity
From: droghedabullmastiff@comcast.net
7b. Re: slower maturity
From: MORGAN LEWIS
7c. Re: slower maturity
From: Tina Berry

8. pat my dogs
From: jose

9a. Re: Poop does not look good - yellow
From: MORGAN LEWIS
9b. Re: Poop does not look good - yellow
From: costrowski75
9c. Re: Poop does not look good - yellow
From: costrowski75
9d. Re: Poop does not look good - yellow
From: carnesbill

10a. Re: HAPPY DOGS!!!
From: steph.sorensen

11.1. prey model
From: deborah_flick
11.2. Re: prey model
From: Tina Berry
11.3. Re: prey model
From: Casey Post

12a. Turkey Time
From: brutus_buckley
12b. Re: Turkey Time
From: Andrea

Messages
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1a. Re: E coli recall - should I keep or toss recalled beef ribs ?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 7:30 am ((PST))

"Lisa S." <acbrio@...> wrote:
>
> Some beef products from my raw buying group from a certain supplier

> I have one of these products, some very meaty raw beef ribs. They
> have been sitting in my freezer since the end of June (oops, I
> ordered too many things), so that's about four months ago. Should I
> be concerned about giving my dog these beef ribs ?
*****
I seriously doubt it. But if you can't get past the niggling fear,
don't feed the ribs.

Just out of curiosity, what other than the surface of ribs would be
contaminated by e. coli? Seems like if the notion distresses you, you
could just rinse them off before feeding. If one can "save" spinach by
a good rinsing, I'd bet ribs are equally salvagable.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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1b. Re: E coli recall - should I keep or toss recalled beef ribs ?
Posted by: "krystal_brr" rkbarr@hughes.net krystal_brr
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 8:32 am ((PST))

> > I have one of these products, some very meaty raw beef ribs. They
> > have been sitting in my freezer since the end of June (oops, I
> > ordered too many things), so that's about four months ago. Should I
> > be concerned about giving my dog these beef ribs ?

> *****> Seems like if the notion distresses you, you
> could just rinse them off before feeding. If one can "save" spinach
by
> a good rinsing, I'd bet ribs are equally salvagable.
> Chris O
>

*****
I have been told that even if you have a little mold growing on the
surface of meat You can use vinegar to wipe it off and it will be
fine. This was from an old timer talking about hanging venison and
butchering on an as needed basis. Who by the way is very old and has
been doing this a long time, so it hasn't killed him yet:-)

My 2 cents,
Krystal

Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: Not Eating - Depressed?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 7:39 am ((PST))

"Me" <earthmoontide@...> wrote:
My maremma bitch hasn't been eating regularly for a little
> while now, and I'm after advice. She's 13 months old and has been
> brought up with chicken (flesh & bones) as her main diet, with
> different meat/bones/skin/organs regularly appearing on the menu.
>
> She appears happy most of the time, and has recently just undergone
> her first season with no male visitors. Every now and then I'll
> hear her 'sigh'.
*****
I'm not sure that dogs sigh longingly, so you might want to make sure
there's nothing amiss with her respiratory system, including lungs
and heart. Other than that, I vote for hormonal imbalance. Maybe
even a false pregnancy? You might try offering her especially
pleasing foods, as one would to a pregnant bitch.

> Any angry replies regarding my stance on immunisation need not
reply.
*****
Well, I can at least congratulate you for your wise decision?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. ADMIN/Re: price of turkey, chicken; freezer question
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 7:43 am ((PST))

This thread is over, done, finished. Any further conversation is not
acceptable. Take your conflicts private please.
Chris O
Moderation Team

Messages in this topic (15)
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4.1. Re: Feeding Pork
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 7:54 am ((PST))

"doreenchui" <doreenchui@...> wrote:
>
> I thought I read somewhere in terms of nutritional values, it's last
on
> the list and not highly recommended.
*****
What list? Please provide references when you post provocative
comments. On the face of it, there is no reason to put pork last,
nutritionally.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (28)
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4.2. Re: Feeding Pork
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 8:29 am ((PST))

I know this sounds a little crazy, but once I fed each of my dogs an
entire pork shoulder a piece! It lasted the whole week. My husband
was really weirded out by the fact that they ate for about two days
straight and then I wouldn't feed them until the following week.
Sorry, but 9 lb pork shoulders go a long way!! I monitored their
behavior closely, and they didn't even care about food again until
about 7 days later!

In all honesty, I think my pit bull (Scarlet) buried hers and was
grazing on it all week. She likes to graze rather than stuff
herself. Lucy, my lab, is a stuffer.

Long story short, they love pork, and I love to feed it to them. :)
I don't feed it all the time though, because it is a fatty meat and
Lucy has the propensity for weight gain. I give them chicken, beef
and venison, along with some eggs, and they also get fish caps daily.

-Steph
Scarlet, Lucy, and Minkey (the kitty)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> What, pork? Heck no, it's a great and cheap red meat. Between the
> choice of feeding mostly chicken or mostly pork, mostly pork wins
hands
> (or trotters) down.
>
> Andrea
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "doreenchui" <doreenchui@> wrote:
> >
> > I thought I read somewhere in terms of nutritional values, it's
> > last on the list and not highly recommended.
>

Messages in this topic (28)
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4.3. Re: Feeding Pork
Posted by: "MORGAN LEWIS" shadowland22000@yahoo.com shadowland22000
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 8:30 am ((PST))

hum, I thought PORK was considered the "other" white meat. Morgan

Andrea <poketmouse45@yahoo.com> wrote: What, pork? Heck no, it's a great and cheap red meat. Between the
choice of feeding mostly chicken or mostly pork, mostly pork wins hands
(or trotters) down.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "doreenchui" <doreenchui@...> wrote:
>
> I thought I read somewhere in terms of nutritional values, it's
> last on the list and not highly recommended.

Morgan and His Angels
Precious, OFA
Princess, CGC, TDI, GSDCA Health Award

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Messages in this topic (28)
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5. Re: Organic vs non-organic
Posted by: "MORGAN LEWIS" shadowland22000@yahoo.com shadowland22000
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 8:28 am ((PST))

Gee this reminds me of some of my favorite GSD sites, I ought to fit right in. There are some smaller suppliers that do not use chemicals, antibiotics or hormones, period. They are more expensive, and probably worth it. God knows we put enough junk in our bodies. If you have ever been around some of these commercial chicken hatcheries, you would be amazed at the vitamins , antibiotics and hormones those animals are given.

From a practicle point of view, either source is a hell of a lot better than kibble. If you can find a great reliable source of chemical, hormone, antibiotic free meat and can afford the prices, go for it. If you can not, then do what you can. Neither effort is incorrect, and both are better than most of the dogs in the world will ever see. So pat yourself on the back. Morgan and his Angels

carnesbill <carnesw@bellsouth.net> wrote:
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Me" <earthmoontide@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, correct. After reading your blurb, I wished you hadn't
> responded. It reads as an uninformed, selfish blurb.

No, Catherine is absolutely correct. People are being duped into
buying more expensive food products by good marketing of the same
food.

> > I REFUSE to pay extra for "organic" or "free range" or "all
> > natural" or "cage free" meat. To me these are just gimics for
> > charging more for the same meat animals we already buy for
> > far less.
>
> They are not the same animals. Chemicals, or hormones added
> to feed change the quality of the animal that eats the feed.

Yes they are. You should look up the requirements for something to
be called "organic" or "free range" or "all natural". "Organic"
animals are given exactly the same chemicals as non-organic except
for the last month or so of it's life.

ALL cattle are free range and grass fed until the last few months of
his life. As far as I know there are no calves born and put in a
small pen and fed grain it's whole life. THey are all raised in
pastures, free ranging for all but the last few months.

IF the chickens in the factory farm chicken houses can see the sky,
they can be called "free range".

There are many cattle farms around me and my brother raises cattle.
All of these farmers ... every single one of them ... when they get
ready to kill a cow for their own consumption will "put it up" in a
pen and feed it grain for a few months before slaughter to fatten it
up and add flavor to the meat.

> Regardless of whether the animals currently in our food
> chain occur
> naturally, the status of 'organic' meat means (as I understand it)
> that there are no unnatural chemicals to be found in the flesh of
> that meat. Therefore, it's a healthier choice.

Technically there is none in their meat but it is not tested. THey
are given the same chemicals up until the last month or so of it's
life. "It's a healther choice" only if the chemicals given the
animal are harmful.

> If an animal cannot be free, I would rather it is kept in a fenced
> pasture with naturally occuring grass/food than keeping the poor
> creature contained with little opportunity for movement and
> fed from a man-made-unnaturally-occurring bucket.

You can rest easier. They are all kept in fenced pastures and eat
grass until the last few months of their lives.

> "Organically raised" meat means that they aren't given
> any unnatural medications or anti-biotics, so I really
> don't understand your complaint.

It means they aren't given any chemicals the last month or so of
their life.

> How you spend your money is your business. Trying to justify your
> economical choice by bagging an equally sensible chemically-free
> lifestyle is ridiculous.

Being duped into buying the same product at a higher product is what
is ridiculous. If you are an american and have grown up watching
television you should know by now that most products are not what
their advertising claims.

> > and folks that look down their snotty noses at people
> that choose to buy food that costs less even when they can
> afford to buy the more expensive meats need a reality check..
> or beaten severely about the head until some sense sinks in.

> It's really quite rude AND socially innappropriate to both bag
> somebody AND threaten them with beatings because they think
> differently from you.

I think it's funny. Where is your sense of humor? Catherine made
some very good points in her post.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Morgan and His Angels
Precious, OFA
Princess, CGC, TDI, GSDCA Health Award

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6a. Re: Dogs eating fruit and vegetables?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 8:29 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Penny Sanford Fikes <penny@...>
wrote:
>
> *What are your thoughts on letting our pet dogs of this generation
> choose to eat fruits and vegetables that are in season?

I think its the same thing as me eating cake, ice cream, candy,
etc. In moderation these foods aren't harmful to your dog. The
important thing to remember is that because of your dog's digestive
system, they can't extract nutrients out of those foods. They just
pass through.

> Maybe there is
> some ingredient their bodies crave (potassium or such?)

No, I don't think they have enough intellegence to know what
nutrients their body is deficient in. Humans usually don't even
know that.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (16)
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6b. Re: Dogs eating fruit and vegetables?
Posted by: "Nataly A" rap_squad@yahoo.com rap_squad
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 8:36 am ((PST))

As Andrea said, they crave the sugar. Fruits, being full of sugar and some of them very acidic, put alot of strain on a dog's digestive tract. they put the dogs in danger of kindney failure and other conditions.
My feeding strategy is giving my dogs the food they NEED. lucky for me, they enjoy their raw food very much.

Nat.

----- Original Message ----
From: Penny Sanford Fikes <penny@bluebonnetmagnolia.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 8, 2007 4:48:58 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Dogs eating fruit and vegetables?

*What are your thoughts on letting our pet dogs of this generation
choose to eat fruits and vegetables that are in season? Maybe there is
some ingredient their bodies crave (potassium or such?)

Penny in Mississippi
Four English Shepherds
Seven Rescued Westies

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6c. Re: Dogs eating fruit and vegetables?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 9:16 am ((PST))

Penny Sanford Fikes <penny@...> wrote:
(We've had that stereotypical farm mentality that a filled out/edging
on
> the fat side.... cow, horse, pig, dog, etc.... is a sign of good
health
> and good stewardship.....so these collective experiences of dogs
eating
> farm fruit/vegetables was not driven by hunger.}
*****
I adore English Shepherds and hope to add one to the swirl of dogs I
live with, and if you are raising your ESs naturally (species
appropriate diet, no vax) then I should be talking to you off-list
about your dogs! I think it's awesome that you have been a farming
family for many generations. And I am envious of the wealth of
fruits and vegetables you have ready access to.

But eating fruits and vegetables is less about hunger and more about
sugar content. And regardless of how passionate your dogs are about
ravaging your gardens and orchards, they have no (as in none)
nutritional need for vegetation, and correspondingly no physiology to
process it.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (16)
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7a. Re: slower maturity
Posted by: "droghedabullmastiff@comcast.net" droghedabullmastiff@comcast.net droghedabullmastiff
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 8:29 am ((PST))

I have only been feeding raw for a few months so I can't say whether it will promote slower growth in large breed dogs. I have been breeding Mastiffs and Bullmastiffs for over 30 years and I have seen how slower to mature dogs seem to live longer with fewer health problems. I think genes have a lot to do with it also . The Bullmastiff stud that just sired my litter born Oct. 13 will be 9 years old on Dec. 1. He is my fourth generation of slow growing dogs. Jason is OFA certified hips and elbows as was each one of his bloodline I bred or owned. He was the runt of his litter and took 3 years to reach full growth. He is now at the top of the standard in height and weight and has never been ill or had any of the lameness problems so common in this breed. Rose_I__

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Messages in this topic (5)
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7b. Re: slower maturity
Posted by: "MORGAN LEWIS" shadowland22000@yahoo.com shadowland22000
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 8:29 am ((PST))

Many of the kibble manufactures went to a high Protein formula several years ago for the Large Breed. This formula apparently promoted maturity, but also led to major bone, joint problems (Pano). I have not had a case of Pano since switching to RAW. Morgan

carnesbill <carnesw@bellsouth.net> wrote: --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Felicia Kost <saphiradane@...>
wrote:
>
> I have been told by several large dog breeders that one benefit
> of raw is that, the dog will grow and mature slower in
> turn causing less joint problems. Is this true?

Generally speaking, yes. It is possible to overfeed a giant breed
puppy and cause joint problems on a raw diet but that is not common.

> Just wondering if she will catch up to her littermates and if
> the raw food was causing her to grow slower.

Genes will determine her eventual size more than anything else.

> Being a horse person I am all about slow maturity, but does
> it benefit the large breed dogs as well?

Yes

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Morgan and His Angels
Precious, OFA
Princess, CGC, TDI, GSDCA Health Award

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7c. Re: slower maturity
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 9:16 am ((PST))

"I have been told by several large dog breeders that one benefit of raw is
that, the dog will grow and mature slower in turn causing less joint
problems. Is this true?"

Well, my big boy Baron, 95lbs +-; when he was 9 months old I think he was
around 85 lbs and everyone thought he was huge and was curious just how big
he was going to be - he never got pano, has very large bones, but seemed to
grow like a weed. At 9 weeks he was 20+ lbs.

His two puppies seemed to grow slower than him, again, no pano and the male
is large boned, the female is fairly large boned, they are now 18 months.
The still appeared to go thru the same growth spurts, but not as fast, over
like 2 months, no pano, but same ages around 6-9 months and then around
12-14 months - but slower growth spurts than if not on raw.

My prev gsds were never on puppy food in the first place and never got pano
either. This was 20 years ago when the percentages in puppy food were
probably way out of wack to what they are today; but my trainer recommended
in the 1980s no puppy food for gsd puppies because of the growth thing.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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Messages in this topic (5)
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8. pat my dogs
Posted by: "jose" jgacondor@yahoo.com jgacondor
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 8:29 am ((PST))

http://www.uniteddogs.com/dog/lhou

here are my dogs...alll 5 of them!!!!sorry for the pictures!!! pat for
them plz>>>lolz

joseph of philippines

Messages in this topic (1)
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9a. Re: Poop does not look good - yellow
Posted by: "MORGAN LEWIS" shadowland22000@yahoo.com shadowland22000
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 8:29 am ((PST))

Everything Bill said is true, so if your dog is constipated reverse #1 and #3 to adjust diet. This is especially helpful with PF dogs and probably others with intestinal problems. Morgan

carnesbill <carnesw@bellsouth.net> wrote: --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "barrettsmadison"
<barrettsark@...> wrote:
>
> I'm having loose stools so I guess I'm not feeding enough bone??
> New to the group Jessica---

I assume you mean your dog is having loose stools. :) :) :)

Common causes of loose stools ...
1. Too little bone in the diet
2. Feeding too much volume in a meal early in the diet
3. Feeding too much organ or feeding organ too early in the diet
4. Feeding too much fat

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Morgan and His Angels
Precious, OFA
Princess, CGC, TDI, GSDCA Health Award

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9b. Re: Poop does not look good - yellow
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 8:46 am ((PST))

"cynthiashankman" <ShankMa4@...> wrote:
>> I thought we were supposed to use the poop as a monitoring tool?
Too
> hard, or too much straining, aren't those indications of too much
bone.
*****
For some, hard poops may indicate too much bone; for others hard poops
are a sign that "enough" bone was fed. In both cases if what comes out
appropriately reflects what went in then the process is working
properly. It is our job as chief cook and bottle washer to determine
if that appropriate result is the one we want.

If your dog stops up with hard stools by all means add more meat to
mediate hard rock poops; there is little point to feeding beyond what
you know works best for your dog. If, on the other hand, you've been
trying to firm up your dog's stools, white rocks would be an indication
that you've finally gotten there.

Experience shows us what sort of meals work how. I think it is
shortsighted to fully ignore what stools can tell us; I also think it's
extreme to "read" more into the message than what's there.

Wouldn't I use that as an indication to
> not give a bony meal today?
*****
If you know from experience that difficult stools yesterday can be
mediated by a meaty meal today, then you should do that. What the
event would tell me though, is to feed more meat the next time I feed
bones.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (13)
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9c. Re: Poop does not look good - yellow
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 8:57 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "barrettsmadison" <barrettsark@...>
wrote:
>
> I'm having loose stools so I guess I'm not feeding enough bone??
> New to the group Jessica---
*****
Not necessarily.
You could be feeding too much food.
You could be feeding too much fat.
You could be feeding too much new stuff.
Your dog could have gotten into something else entirely.

Certainly bone content is one thing you should be evaluating. It's not
hardly the only thing though.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (13)
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9d. Re: Poop does not look good - yellow
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 9:16 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cynthiashankman" <ShankMa4@...>
wrote:
>
> I thought we were supposed to use the poop as a monitoring tool?

Yes, correct.

> Too hard, or too much straining, aren't those indications of
> too much bone.

I've never seen "too hard" poop. I say that white dry powdery poop
indicates too much bone. Small, hard, well formed poop is ideal in
my mind.

> Wouldn't I use that as an indication to
> not give a bony meal today?

Maybe, I've just never had a dog that did that. I have seen white
powdery poops indicating too much bone.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (13)
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10a. Re: HAPPY DOGS!!!
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 8:29 am ((PST))

Aw, that is so cool, Joe! I know I didn't have anything to do with
your success, but I love reading positive, uplifting posts like this!

Mine are the same way! They get SO EXCITED about their meals now!

Keep up the good work!

-Steph
Scarlet, Lucy, and Minkey (the kitty)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jose" <jgacondor@...> wrote:
>
> HI GUYZ!!!!THANKS FOR ALL THE RESPONSE...I LEARNED ALOT FROM THEM....
> I APPRECIATED ALL UR OPINIONS AND IDEAS!!!
> LALA, LARA, LANZ, LHOU, AND LONG ARE VERY HAPPY NOW ON THEIR RAW
> DIETS!!!!I LOVE THEM, IT IS VERY HARD FOR ME TO START BEFORE BUT NOW
I
> AM CONFIDENT TO FEED MY PETS( SHIH TZU, PITBULL, DAUSHUND, MEXICAN
> HAIRLESS/XOLOITZCUINTLI AND A MUTT, different breeds within a happy
> family!!!!lolz) ON RAW!!!! thanks guyz!!!!my pets are extending their
> paws and wag their tails for all your help!!!thanks again guyz!!!
> :) :) ;)
> joseph with a bunch of pets
> Philippines
>

Messages in this topic (2)
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11.1. prey model
Posted by: "deborah_flick" drdflick@qwest.net deborah_flick
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 8:29 am ((PST))

Hello all,

First, thank you for replies to my query about calcium:phosphorous! Most helpful.

Now another question. I understand the prey model of feeding is based on the way wolves
feed in the wild and that our dogs regarless of size or breed are descended from wolves.
However, according to some, those dogs that thousands of years ago became "domesticated"
accomplished this by hanging around people and feeding from their refuse--ancient
compost heaps I suppose--as well and eating prey. From this standpoint, dogs are
scavangers, opportunistic eaters eating what they can find, ripe fruit at the base of fruit trees,
as well as dead animals and other such. If so, then wouldn't dogs be suited to a variety of raw
food including some vegetation and even grains? I'm curious to hear what others think. I have
never heard this aspect of dogs evolution addressed in the context of raw feeding.

Thanks so much.
Deborah

Messages in this topic (38)
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11.2. Re: prey model
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 8:34 am ((PST))

"From this standpoint, dogs are scavangers, opportunistic eaters eating what
they can find, ripe fruit at the base of fruit trees, as well as dead
animals and other such. If so, then wouldn't dogs be suited to a variety of
raw food including some vegetation and even grains?"

Dogs can thrive on whatever they are being fed (including kibble) is this
ideal? No. You will find most on this list try to feed 100% prey model (red
meat being the most ideal) I feed primarily venison. And the 80 10 10 ratio
with meat, bones, organs is ideal for dogs. I do give an egg daily with
fishoil for my german shedders ;-)
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (38)
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11.3. Re: prey model
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 8:43 am ((PST))

> From this standpoint, dogs are
> scavangers, opportunistic eaters eating what they can find, ripe fruit at
> the base of fruit trees,
> as well as dead animals and other such.

Dogs are highly opportunistic, there's no doubt about that...it's part of
what makes them a successful species. But eating what you can find when you
cannot get your ideal diet and thriving on such items are two different
things...

Check out the raw myths -

http://rawfed.com/myths/index.html

in particular -

http://rawfed.com/myths/changed.html

>>If so, then wouldn't dogs be suited to a variety of raw
> food including some vegetation and even grains? I'm curious to hear what
> others think. I have
> never heard this aspect of dogs evolution addressed in the context of raw
> feeding.

There are those here who would argue against the species-appropriateness of
grains for omnivores like humans, let alone carnivores like dogs! <g>
(discussion of human diet is strictly off topic, though).

Not to worry, you'll find LOTS of information about the evolution of dogs
regarding diet here!

Casey

Messages in this topic (38)
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12a. Turkey Time
Posted by: "brutus_buckley" brutus_buckley@yahoo.com brutus_buckley
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 9:16 am ((PST))

Sales on turkey are starting to pop up, but so far they are all
enhanced. I have avoided feeding enhanced meat because I know from this
list that some animals do not tolerate it. I have even advised others
not to buy enhanced meat, but I realize I have been parroting this
information and don't actually know the specifics.

For those who have animals that are sensitive to enhanced meats, what
symptoms occur? Apparently 'enhanced' means saline solution, but are
there other chemicals going into the solution? Is that what causes the
reaction? I would love to buy some whole turkeys for my dogs but don't
want to put them at risk if this enhanced meat is dangerous.

-Renee W.

Messages in this topic (2)
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12b. Re: Turkey Time
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 9:25 am ((PST))

Only one of my dogs has issues with poultry enhanced with broth. The
saline solution doesn't bother him as far as I can tell, but when he
eats something with a mystery broth he becomes really itchy.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "brutus_buckley"
<brutus_buckley@...> wrote:

> For those who have animals that are sensitive to enhanced meats,
> what symptoms occur? Apparently 'enhanced' means saline solution,
> but are there other chemicals going into the solution?

Messages in this topic (2)
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________________________________________________________________________

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