[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12129

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1.1. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
From: Gail Edmond

2a. Feeding raw egg (was: A Report)
From: annemariekruit

3a. Re: First Week
From: rlayt

4. ADMIN:Signing and Trimming
From: GWB

5a. Re: Feeding Tripe
From: Yasuko herron

6a. Re: there's no denying the evidence! I t really works!!
From: Giselle

7a. Coat has strong, disagreeable odor
From: annartisan
7b. Re: Coat has strong, disagreeable odor
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
7c. Re: Coat has strong, disagreeable odor
From: carnesbill
7d. Re: Coat has strong, disagreeable odor
From: Giselle

8a. {Raw Feeding} Expired meat looks iffy!
From: Brandi Bryant
8b. Re: {Raw Feeding} Expired meat looks iffy!
From: carnesbill

9a. Re: A good raw-inspired chew?
From: Kathie Middlemiss

10. group removal request
From: mary

11a. Re: Time Limit? (MEREDITH)
From: Meredith Soriano
11b. Re: Time Limit? (MEREDITH)
From: Giselle

12a. Re: Raw and ethical/animal cruelty concerns
From: carnesbill

13a. Plant Material {previously - Re: Adding on to Supplement Question}
From: linoleum5017
13b. Re: Plant Material {previously - Re: Adding on to Supplement Questio
From: Loraine Jesse
13c. Plant Material {previously - Re: Adding on to Supplement Question}
From: Giselle

14a. How do you calculate?
From: maurwyck
14b. Re: How do you calculate?
From: Brandi Bryant

15a. overweight PWD
From: macluerssen
15b. Re: overweight PWD
From: Carol Dunster
15c. Re: overweight PWD
From: Giselle

Messages
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1.1. Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner
Posted by: "Gail Edmond" windybond1@yahoo.co.uk windybond1
Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 6:51 am ((PDT))

Thanks for the reply my back spasms have eased up a bit today but got 283 emails to get through so who knows after that.

Gail

----- Original Message ----
From: katkellm <katkellm@yahoo.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 4 October, 2007 10:09:46 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: raw feeding advice for a beginner

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogro ups.com, Gail Edmond <windybond1@ ...> wrote:
>
> thanks for the reply i think you are probably right it is me at fault.

Hi Gail,
I really didn't mean it was your fault in a bad way. Actually, its a
compliment that you love your dogs so much that you are worried about
their health and are getting back spasms sitting over you computer
trying to learn about raw feeding. I was lucky when i started feeding
raw, my 3 dogs took to it instantly. I didn't have to use the tough
love approach, so i can only imagine how hard it is to pick up their
food and know they didn't eat. In the same token, when my son was
young, he's 18 now, he became an Oreo cookie and Lucky Charm cereal
connoisseur. When i had to finally tell him no junk food allowed, it
was hard on me because he did the 3year old tantrum thing. I was able
to stay the course because i knew i was right. So, what i'm trying to
say is that by staying strong, you are doing the best thing for your
dogs. It seems hard to you because you probably aren't for sure, as
in 100% sure, that you are doing the right thing, but i can tell you
that from my experience with my dogs, raw feeding is the best thing
that i ever did for them. Honest. How is it going today? KathyM who
is positive that no one on this list thinks that you are stupid
because "Everyone who got where he is, started where he was."

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Messages in this topic (39)
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2a. Feeding raw egg (was: A Report)
Posted by: "annemariekruit" annemariekruit@yahoo.ca annemariekruit
Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 8:08 am ((PDT))

This works for me: I put an egg down on the patio for each dog, whole
and intact. The shep/lab mix bites it and eats the whole thing. The
sheltie gently picks it up and sets it down on the grass. She bites it
until there's crack in it, then licks what comes out. Eventually she
gets the whole thing cleaned out, but doesn't like to eat the shell.
The shep/lab cleans it up then. Anne-Marie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> When you crack the egg in half you can just put the eggshell down
along

Messages in this topic (6)
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3a. Re: First Week
Posted by: "rlayt" rlayt@bresnan.net rlayt
Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 8:08 am ((PDT))

Thanks for the advice!

Robin L.
Helena MT

Messages in this topic (4)
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4. ADMIN:Signing and Trimming
Posted by: "GWB" chiksika@comcast.net kioqua
Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 9:03 am ((PDT))

Several mails have been deleted over the last couple of days because
they were either unsigned, untrimmed or both. The moderators simply do
not have time to baby sit adults. BOTH are required for ALL members of
this list and all the other lists we moderate. If "you" can't be
bothered to sign your name or trim the mail "you" are responding to,
we don't have the time to do it for you.

Both are easy and simple to do.

questions or comment-

rawfeeding-owner@yahoogroups.com

Gerry Brierley-mod dude

Messages in this topic (1)
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5a. Re: Feeding Tripe
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 12:06 pm ((PDT))

>Some people feed tripe to the exclusion of other food. I would not recommend this.

Hi,Chris.What does this sentence mean??

I am feeding meat,bone,organ,plus little bit of Tripe. Is this ok? I rotate between Tripe and Egg.

thanks,

yassy

---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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6a. Re: there's no denying the evidence! I t really works!!
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 1:31 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Marisa!
Ah, emergency hospitalizations are the PITS, whether it
happens to you, or your dogs. Last thing you needed then was to be
worrying about your dogs.

If it had happened to me, I would have played the "Oh, poor me, this
terrible thing is happening to me! Poor dogs, I can't take care of
them properly, I'm soooo worried about them." card, and gotten his
utter compliance through sympathy. *VBG

NEVER underestimate the power of whining! ^_^

TC
Giselle

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Marisa" <mrsdog_lover@...> wrote:

> Yes Giselle, you are perfectly right!!
> I will do from now on, the problem was that in this occasion, it was
> an EMERGENCY ADMISSION in the hospital, and I didn't have time to buy
> other food and make the portions to facilitate my hubby, but I did
> show him my dogs TEETH, and he had the same face of DISGUST as
> before!!!...HA-HA.HA!!!
>
> marisa

Messages in this topic (4)
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7a. Coat has strong, disagreeable odor
Posted by: "annartisan" annartisan@yahoo.com annartisan
Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 2:12 pm ((PDT))

We've been feeding our now-5-month-old puppy a raw diet for about a
month now. We started with chicken quarters and noticed within a few
days time that the familiar "doggie odor" completely disappeared and
he smelled fresh as a daisy. After a week or so of chicken (and
occasional ground turkey), we added venison to his diet. Roughly ten
days or so later, his coat developed a strong odor. My daughter
calls it a "fishy" smell, but my husband and I both think it smells
like raw chicken. It's really strong... you can smell it on him when
you're standing over him and he's lying on the floor.

I did a search on coat smells here and ran across one person last
December who posted that his/her dog's breath smelled fishy after
eating venison, but in our puppy's case it's definitely not the
breath... I've stuck my nose right in his mouth and sniffed and
there's no odor at all. My husband thought it might be because he's
playing with/rolling around with his raw chicken, but I watch him eat
and that's definitely not happening. (Also, his entire coat has this
smell, not just around his mouth or neck.)

I'm posting this in the hope that someone here can offer a possible
reason for this odor and how we might get rid of it. I'd hate to have
to stop feeding the venison as he absolutely loves it and we have
about 70 pounds of it in the freezer!

Thanks for any help anyone can offer -

AnnA

Messages in this topic (4)
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7b. Re: Coat has strong, disagreeable odor
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 5:31 pm ((PDT))

Mine eat venison and don't have any weird smell. Are you sure there isn't any chicken in the backyard, somewhere that he has stashed away somewhere, like a private place, and he's going to it, and rolling in it? I've heard of animals smelling like the food they eat, and my dane sometimes does, but he has really rolly skin under his lips; we have to keep it clean after feedings. So he smells like whatever we are feeding him at the time.
But if you are feeding venison, he shouldn't smell like chicken:) Venison has a really ripe smell, I know, I've skinned my own, and my dogs won't eat it fresh, only frozen. (smells less then) So maybe check out the yard, for hiding spots. And does it have large loose lips, that food juices can get stuck in, like mine, then that could be a problem too:)? Just a couple of thoughts, hope you work it out, nobody likes a stinky dog, but at least he smells like dinner:)
Jeni

----- Original Message ----
From: annartisan <annartisan@yahoo.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2007 2:00:15 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Coat has strong, disagreeable odor

We've been feeding our now-5-month- old puppy a raw diet for about a
month now. We started with chicken quarters and noticed within a few
days time that the familiar "doggie odor" completely disappeared and
he smelled fresh as a daisy. After a week or so of chicken (and
occasional ground turkey), we added venison to his diet. Roughly ten
days or so later, his coat developed a strong odor. My daughter
calls it a "fishy" smell, but my husband and I both think it smells
like raw chicken. It's really strong... you can smell it on him when
you're standing over him and he's lying on the floor.

I did a search on coat smells here and ran across one person last
December who posted that his/her dog's breath smelled fishy after
eating venison, but in our puppy's case it's definitely not the
breath... I've stuck my nose right in his mouth and sniffed and
there's no odor at all. My husband thought it might be because he's
playing with/rolling around with his raw chicken, but I watch him eat
and that's definitely not happening. (Also, his entire coat has this
smell, not just around his mouth or neck.)

I'm posting this in the hope that someone here can offer a possible
reason for this odor and how we might get rid of it. I'd hate to have
to stop feeding the venison as he absolutely loves it and we have
about 70 pounds of it in the freezer!

Thanks for any help anyone can offer -

AnnA

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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7c. Re: Coat has strong, disagreeable odor
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 11:00 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, John and Jeni Blackmon
<jonjeni777@...> wrote:
>
I'm also thinking he has found something to roll in. Check him close
and see if the smell is coming from either the side of his face, his
neck or his shoulers. If so, he's definately rolling. :) :) :)

Mine eat venison with no odors.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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7d. Re: Coat has strong, disagreeable odor
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Oct 7, 2007 12:42 am ((PDT))

Hi, Anna!
If you're not giving the pup any supps or no one is slipping
him other foods as treats, it may just be his body's reaction to an
all venison diet.

Put him back on chicken for a week or two, give him a bath in a gentle
oatmeal or pure castile shampoo, and see if that makes a difference in
his body odor.

If it does, then you'll know. You might need to add chicken back into
his diet, and/or introduce other proteins regularly, to dilute the
effect of the venison.

In what form are you feeding the venison? What kind of parts? With
bones? What about organs? Is he getting his 3-5% liver?

Is there any change in his coat? Texture? Oily, greasy? Dandruffy,
flaky skin?

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

<snip>
we added venison to his diet. Roughly ten
> days or so later, his coat developed a strong odor. My daughter
> calls it a "fishy" smell, but my husband and I both think it smells
> like raw chicken. It's really strong... you can smell it on him when
> you're standing over him and he's lying on the floor.
<snip>
> I'm posting this in the hope that someone here can offer a possible
> reason for this odor and how we might get rid of it. I'd hate to have
> to stop feeding the venison as he absolutely loves it and we have
> about 70 pounds of it in the freezer!
>
> Thanks for any help anyone can offer -
>
> AnnA
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. {Raw Feeding} Expired meat looks iffy!
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 2:12 pm ((PDT))

I just went to pick up the expired meat and it really looks BAD. On the
package - it says what it is and then it says something in spanish but it
does say that's it's been inspected by...the meat what I can see of it is
really brown - is it still alright to fee?
Thanks

--
Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok
www.obediencetrainingclubofbartlesville.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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8b. Re: {Raw Feeding} Expired meat looks iffy!
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 11:00 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Brandi Bryant" <bbryant573@...>
wrote:
>
> I just went to pick up the expired meat and it really looks BAD.

I have fed some meat so raunchy that we had to deoderize the
kitchen. :) :) :) It's probably ok to feed. Dogs are good at
handling rotton meat.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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9a. Re: A good raw-inspired chew?
Posted by: "Kathie Middlemiss" geekgirl717@gmail.com katjermid
Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 5:31 pm ((PDT))

costrowski75 wrote:

Do you mean real pups as in youngsters or are you using the term
affectionately?

I mean real pups. Both are about 14 weeks old.

One is a female lab/shepherd mix female at about 20 pounds. (She's a
rescue, her age is an estimate at best).
One is a male Labrador retriever at about 30 pounds.

I've seen the knuckles and the neck bones. I was mainly looking for
something to scatter around inside where they like to nap.

I've gotten them pigs feet, which they like to hide in the yard until
they're really mud encrusted and generally gross looking. And as I said
they *just* finished off a shoulder after a three day rampage with it.
I have two others in the freezer. They typically get chicken quarters
or halves. The only real "easy" meat I've given them are chunks of beef
heart (I can't find it whole around here though I have a line in on a
Spanish grocery which may carry them) and lamb pieces labeled as 'stew
meat' though they're cut in thick steak and rib sized chunks. No one
seems to buy them at the grocery so I very often get them with a
'manager's special' coupon of $1-2 off.

I also have a woman giving me a lot of 2 year old (always kept in deep
freeze) venison, hopefully there will be some roasts in there and it
won't be all ground.

Kathie

Messages in this topic (8)
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10. group removal request
Posted by: "mary" maryndug2@sbcglobal.net douglas_witter
Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 5:31 pm ((PDT))

Thanks , please remove me from this group and I wish you all and the
dogs the very best .
Mary

Messages in this topic (1)
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11a. Re: Time Limit? (MEREDITH)
Posted by: "Meredith Soriano" mom2mytwinz@yahoo.com mom2mytwinz
Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 5:31 pm ((PDT))

WOW!!!!! The language!! LOL ok

YQW=your quite welcome?
TC= take care?

did I get it right? =]

Giselle <megan.giselle@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, Meredith!
YQW!
TC
Giselle

> That was very helpful...Thank you so much!!

"The purity of a person's heart can be quickly measured by how they regard animals"

Meredith

---------------------------------
Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
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11b. Re: Time Limit? (MEREDITH)
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 7:35 pm ((PDT))

You sure did! ^_^

Giselle

> WOW!!!!! The language!! LOL ok
>
> YQW = you're quite welcome?
> TC = take care?
>
> did I get it right? =]
>
> "The purity of a person's heart can be quickly measured by how they
regard animals"
>
> Meredith

Messages in this topic (10)
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12a. Re: Raw and ethical/animal cruelty concerns
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 6:37 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "girlndocs" <girlndocs@...> wrote:
>
> I sympathize entirely with those who are concerned or
>conflicted about
> supporting the commercial meat industry by buying meat for
> their dogs.
>

By far, most everyone on this list is younger than I am. I can
remember the days that small family farms could feed the world.
That is no longer the case today. I remember a book from the late
1960's or early 1970's called "The Population Bomb". In the book
statistics showed that by the mid to late to mid 1990's it would be
impossible for the earth to produce enough food to feed the human
population and that world wars would be fought over food.

Obviously that didn't happen and there is no evidence that it will
happen in the foreseeble future. For that you can thank the huge
factory farms. The orginazations you call the evil agribuisness is
responsible for millions of people not starving today.

The reason they did this is that there was little government
inteference and the ability to profit from their successes. Either
would have eliminated the very businesses that are feeding the
world. These companies are in business to make a profit. They are
not charities.

I really get tired of hearing people whine and cry about how the big
evil greedy agribusinesses are ruining the world. Without them
millions of people would be starving every day. Without them we
could not possibly produce nearly the amount of food to feed even
the people in this country let alone the other hungry poeple in the
world.

If you want to go ahead and eat your ogranic food and free ranging
chickens and pasture raised cattle go ahead. If everyone ate like
that there would not be nearly enough food for even 10% the people
in this country today.

Instead of whining and crying about agribusiness committing such
evils, you should be thanking them for feeding the world.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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13a. Plant Material {previously - Re: Adding on to Supplement Question}
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 8:42 pm ((PDT))

Chris,

My dog has had a terrible reaction such that he has scratched all the
fur from his back end, and also under his arm pits ever since he was
neutered 7 weeks ago. I finally took him to a new vet (homeopathic)
the other day, and her first question was, 'What are you feeding him?'

I hoped to have a vet that was supportive, but still I was
cautious. "Meat," I said.

"So you rawfeed?" she asked. "Also organs, skin, fat, bones..." I
shot back. (This is when I wish I had lied and said 'kibble,' so she
would actually look to find the real reason for the fur loss.)

To no avail. "Aha, that's your problem," she stated. "Not enough
nutrition." She began to try to sell me vitamins, supplements, ad
nauseum.

I told her that the raw diet was more than outstanding all my dog's
life, and that he had unbelieveably great fur up until the time he was
neutered. Was it not more reasonable to consider the fur-loss related
to his neutering experience?

Her reply was that it may be simply an allergy to fleas..... ok.....
so she gave me flea medicine. Several days later, (now,) and he is
less itchy, but has continued fresh lesions, etc. from I don't know
what.

I have no intention of returning to this vet.... but now I am running
out of potential veterinarians..... the neutering one is out, the
blaming-the-rawdiet one is out... where do I go for help? My dog is
still in fur-distress. His once luscious fur is now pasty,
diminished, and a point of contention.

I defend the rawdiet, but even my 'friends,' now say things
like, "Well, now that he's low on testosterone, the rawdiet cannot be
sufficient....give him vitamins, give him vegetables, give him
kibble!"

Please send me some encouragement.

Thank you,
Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
; you'll be told that
> through the wolf's interaction with man, it has come to need carbos
and
> vegetation. >

Messages in this topic (20)
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13b. Re: Plant Material {previously - Re: Adding on to Supplement Questio
Posted by: "Loraine Jesse" rothburg@hotmail.com loraine_jesse
Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 11:01 pm ((PDT))

He could be reacting/allergic to one of the proteins (meat) or, is it possible that he picked up some sort of mange/mite or, what not from the veternarian clinic when he was having the surgery? You might want to consider thyroid too?
If he was mine I would try spraying him with collidial silver and give him some internally as well as giving him salmon oil, vite e, vite c, some kelp and a wee bit of garlic. Oh and a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar to the water. JMHO
Lorainewww.rothburgrottweilers.com

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Messages in this topic (20)
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13c. Plant Material {previously - Re: Adding on to Supplement Question}
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Oct 7, 2007 1:22 am ((PDT))

Hi, Lynne!
It could be a reaction to fleas, or mites, or a tick bite.
Sensitive dogs can itch for a looong time after just one bite, and it
can become a vicious Catch 22 situation - he scratches and bites
because he itches, and he itches because he scratches and bites.

Since he's had surgery recently, (and inoculations?) his immune system
may have taken a hit, and his resistance to environmental attacks
weaker than usual.

An overgrowth of mites is not an unreasonable supposition. If his
immune system is not working as well as it had been, the mites that
live on all dog's skin can take advantage and overpopulate.

I'd recommend that you look to his diet and refocus your efforts on
obtaining more quality and variety of protein, organs and body parts
or even whole prey to your feeding plan, to boost the variety of
nutrients he can derive from his food and provide even more nutrients
to support his immune system through this assault.

You can bathe him in a soothing non allergenic, additive free oatmeal
or pure castile shampoo when he's itchy. I wouldn't put a bunch of
stuff on him to try to quell the itching, maybe dust him lightly with
diatomaceous earth. Treat the areas he frequents, if not the entire
house and yard. D.A.P. Comfort Zone and maybe a Glade diffuser with
lavender scent can help to calm him, and make him less likely to scratch.
http://www.herbspro.com/61311/PureCastileLiquidSoap.htm
http://www.dirtworks.net/Diatomaceous-Earth.html
http://www.amazon.com/Farnam-Comfort-Zone-Plug-Dogs/dp/B0002AB9FI
http://www.glade.com/fragrance-oils/

You could even add Salmon or Fish Body oil to his diet, to boost the
Omega 3s. Make sure there's no additives, such as soy or Omega 6s, or
plant oils or flavorings.

http://timberwolforganics.com/pet-omega-oils

http://www.icelandpure.com/salmon_oil.htm

http://www.grizzlypetproducts.com/salmon_oil/salmon_oil.html

HTH
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

btw, it can take months for testosterone to flush from a dog's system.

> My dog has had a terrible reaction such that he has scratched all the
> fur from his back end, and also under his arm pits ever since he was
> neutered 7 weeks ago.
<snip>
where do I go for help? My dog is
> still in fur-distress. His once luscious fur is now pasty,
> diminished, and a point of contention.
>
> I defend the raw diet, but even my 'friends,' now say things
> like, "Well, now that he's low on testosterone, the raw diet cannot be
> sufficient....give him vitamins, give him vegetables, give him
> kibble!"
>
> Please send me some encouragement.
>
> Thank you,
> Lynne

Messages in this topic (20)
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14a. How do you calculate?
Posted by: "maurwyck" Maurwyck@hotmail.com maurwyck
Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 11:01 pm ((PDT))

Hello-
I'm new to the raw scene and I've done a lot of reading and question
asking but I can't figure out how to calculate how much is bone how
much is meat and how much is organ. I know you use a certain percentage
of bone in the diets weekly but how do you determine if you're giving
that percentage? I've started my pit pup who weighs 25lbs on chicken
thighs and I give two a day mixed with kibble thinking this would ease
the process but reading some of the posts I see I should just stop the
kibble. If I do that the would increasing the chicken thighs give him
too much bone? And what type of meats/bone would be appropriet for his
form and mouth. I don't want to mess it up to the point I'm causing
problems. (I know there's not an exact science) But for some reason I
just can't get it. If there's anyone in Melbourne, Fl I would love some
one that could show me, because I can't figure it out reading and I
want to do this with confidence instead of second guessing myself
constantly. thank you for all the help
Christina and Drake
Maurwyck@hotmail.com

Messages in this topic (2)
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14b. Re: How do you calculate?
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Sun Oct 7, 2007 1:47 am ((PDT))

>>>>I'm new to the raw scene and I've done a lot of reading and question
asking but I can't figure out how to calculate how much is bone how
much is meat and how much is organ. I know you use a certain percentage
of bone in the diets weekly but how do you determine if you're giving
that percentage? I've started my pit pup who weighs 25lbs on chicken
thighs and I give two a day mixed with kibble thinking this would ease
the process but reading some of the posts I see I should just stop the
kibble. If I do that the would increasing the chicken thighs give him
too much bone? And what type of meats/bone would be appropriet for his
form and mouth.<<<<

Welcome! Ok you want to do 2 - 3 % of your dogs ESTIMATED adult weight.

You want to feed 80% meat, 10% bone and 10% organ. A good way to tell if
you're doing the right percentages is that if you give too much bone you're
dog will become constipated, if you give too much organ your dog will get
diaherra. Your feeding chicken thighs and kibble (opps sorry guys k***le)
DROP the crap in the bag donate to your local animals rescue or animal
pound. Go buy yourself some whole chickens cut them up and give them to
your dog. 25lb puppy I would give thigh and chicken breast in the morning
and give like a leg quarter and wing for dinner. There's nothing wrong with
mixing it up and experimenting. Take it slow, after a week or two add
another protein like turkey or pork! Then maybe start out with a tiny
sliver of organ, liver is better.

For a puppy you feed twice a day some even say to feed 3 times a day. If
your puppy gets to "fluffy" back off of the amount, and if your puppy gets
to skinny up the amount. Right now since your just starting out just
concentrate on just chicken, don't worry too much about the organs. I think
some of your whole chicken come with the organs. (am I right guys?)

And don't be afraid to ask questions! These guys on here are great -

Hang in there you'll get it and your dog will thank you for it!!

Brandi

--
Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok

Messages in this topic (2)
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15a. overweight PWD
Posted by: "macluerssen" macluerssen@yahoo.com macluerssen
Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 11:01 pm ((PDT))

My PWD has been on raw food for almost a year, and we're very happy
with the diet. I also have a "pound puppy" mix. The PWD is 6 years
old, and although I have trimmed his daily meal to just about 1
pound/day, he doesn't seem to be losing any weight. He is currently
about 64 lbs., and should be around 60. We were initially feeding him
1.5#, then trimmed it back to 1.25#, and finally we've been feeding
about 1# for the past 2 months. He lost a couple of pounds, but I
would've expected much more than this. The mixed breed is 3 years
old, also just about 60 lbs. and looks very trim. We feed her
1.5#/day, and she has been holding this weight. We're currently
feeding almost exclusively chicken (we buy whole and cut ourselves)
and occasionally fish, if I can find it cheap enough. We feed frozen
solid so that the dogs don't gulp their food in one minute! The PWD
has always been a bit of a food hound, the kind that'll steal food off
your plate if you leave it in reach. Should I be concerned, or should
I cut back his food amount even more?

Thanks,
Tina

Messages in this topic (3)
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15b. Re: overweight PWD
Posted by: "Carol Dunster" cedunster@centurytel.net carwynst
Date: Sun Oct 7, 2007 1:47 am ((PDT))

On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 05:41:52 -0000, you wrote:

>The PWD
>has always been a bit of a food hound, the kind that'll steal food off
>your plate if you leave it in reach. Should I be concerned, or should
>I cut back his food amount even more?

Well... this may or may not be applicable, but we had a Silky Terrier
once that we were trying to condition for the show ring. She was
constantly way fat and growing a wonderful coat. My friend cut her
food back and cut it back some more. She cleaned the yard so the dog
didn't eat poop... finally one night she found out what the dog was
eating.

She lives in wet country and, at night, these huge earthworms would
come up out of the wet soil and her dog was gorging on them! Turns
out, she checked into it, they are highly nutritious, high protein and
fat. Certainly her dog grew the most gorgeous coat eating them. How's
that for raw food?

I thought I'd mention it in case you, or anyone else with an
unexplained fat dog, lives in wet country. It's one more thing to
consider. Also it may be a great source of raw food for some? I'm sure
you can grow them - these were the great big night crawlers.

~ Carol
_____________
Carol Dunster
cedunster@centurytel.net

Messages in this topic (3)
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15c. Re: overweight PWD
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Oct 7, 2007 2:09 am ((PDT))

Hi, Tina!
First of all, I'd be sure he really needs to lose the 4
pounds. Some dogs, left to their own devices, will carry a little more
or less, weight than we'd consider ideal for them, but they're fine at
it. Don't try to make him toe an imaginary line in the sand, just
'cause the breed standard, his breeder, or 'the experts', or
'everybody' says he *should* weigh less. Every dog is unique.

If he *really* needs to lose the 4 pounds, then, I'd increase his
activity level. Not justs walks, but running and jumping and chasing
balls. Don't let him do anything too extreme and increase the level,
intensity and duration of his activity gradually.

Some dogs systems are more efficient than other's; they're what are
called 'easy keepers'. This efficiency can make it more difficult to
reduce their weight when needed.
2% of his estimated ideal adult body weight @ 60 lbs is; 19.2
or 1 lb 3 oz
3% of his EIABW @ 60 lbs is; 28.8 or 1 lb 13 oz.

2% of his EIABW @ 64 lbs is; 20.48 or 1 lb 4 1/2 oz
3% of his EIABW @ 64 lbs is; 30.72 or 1 lb 14 3/4 oz

You are now feeding little more than 1 % of his EIABW.

You could add some leaner meats to his diet; rabbit, venison, even
turkey isn't as fatty as chicken. Beef heart is a great lean
meatymeat. You could trim visible fat from any chicken you feed.

If he still doesn't lose any weight, consider having a full panel
thyroid check done; inability to lose weight, even on a restricted
diet and unusual hunger can be signs of hypothyroidism. Have your vet
send it to Dr Jean Dodds, she will make a specialized evaluation and
diagnostic report, given the findings;
http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/diagnostic_testing.htm

HTH
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> My PWD has been on raw food for almost a year, and we're very happy
> with the diet. I also have a "pound puppy" mix. The PWD is 6 years
> old, and although I have trimmed his daily meal to just about 1
> pound/day, he doesn't seem to be losing any weight. He is currently
> about 64 lbs., and should be around 60.
<snip>
The PWD
> has always been a bit of a food hound, the kind that'll steal food off
> your plate if you leave it in reach. Should I be concerned, or should
> I cut back his food amount even more?
>
> Thanks,
> Tina
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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