[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12051

There are 15 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. RE ON suppliers
From: Sharon Taylor
1b. Re: RE ON suppliers
From: Shannon Parker

2a. Re: can't gain weight
From: Sandee Lee
2b. Re: can't gain weight
From: Yasuko herron
2c. Re: can't gain weight
From: cypressbunny
2d. can't gain weight
From: Cris Milam

3a. Re: Newbie: looking for the ingredants for Raw Feeding
From: kaylsraven
3b. Re: Newbie: looking for the ingredants for Raw Feeding
From: carolejc2007

4. newbie nerves
From: monami24257

5. New to raw.....looking for resources in Las Vegas, NV
From: Carrie

6a. Re: Smelly green meat
From: Susano

7a. Re: UK suppliers
From: Giselle
7b. Re: UK suppliers
From: sange101

8a. Re: Feeding Heads
From: Giselle
8b. Re: Feeding Heads
From: Renate

Messages
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1a. RE ON suppliers
Posted by: "Sharon Taylor" taylorsl@mountaincable.net whackyjacky2000
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:30 pm ((PDT))

Hi to all, I am new to the list and been feeding raw for almost a year now.
So I am still relatively a newbie learning as I go.

I have 2 whippets one female 25lbs and the male is approx 40 lbs.

I have a hard time finding suppliers in Ontario, Canada anyone on the list
that can help me out. I have been to supermarkets and local butcher in the
area without much luck.

Looking for a variety of meat for them at a reasonable price.

Hopefully not to far away.

Thanks,

Sharon

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Messages in this topic (2)
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1b. Re: RE ON suppliers
Posted by: "Shannon Parker" mrbatisse@yahoo.ca mrbatisse
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:57 pm ((PDT))

Hi Sharon,

I'm in Ontario as well...I have a Greyhound and Argentine Dogo. I'm in Hamilton. Contact me off list and I'll give you some solutions. I have it down pat now...feed my guys as cheap as kibble.

Shannon

mrbatisse@yahoo.ca

Sharon Taylor <taylorsl@mountaincable.net> wrote:
Hi to all, I am new to the list and been feeding raw for almost a year now.
So I am still relatively a newbie learning as I go.

I have 2 whippets one female 25lbs and the male is approx 40 lbs.

I have a hard time finding suppliers in Ontario, Canada anyone on the list
that can help me out. I have been to supermarkets and local butcher in the
area without much luck.

Looking for a variety of meat for them at a reasonable price.

Hopefully not to far away.

Thanks,

Sharon

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: can't gain weight
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:43 pm ((PDT))

More meat and more fat. You are feeding mainly turkey which is quite lean.
What parts of the lamb are you feeding? Why all ground...is this a
commercial product or are you grinding it yourself?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Jon Warner" <reefwiz@sbcglobal.net>
> I am new to this group and still learning about raw. I switch my dog to
raw two and a half weeks ago. Before that she was on the home cooked diet.
My girl has always had a problem keeping up her weight but now she is even
more skinny. Her ribs, spine and pelvic bones are visible. She also has a
very sensitive stomach and suspicion for IBD. My question is: what can I
feed her to gain weight?. I feed her three times already. She gets turkey,
ground turkey necks and lamb. Each meal consist 210 g of food, 60 g of each
is RMB( turkey necks), 90g of lamb and rest is turkey. All meats are ground.
She gets about 3% of her ideal weight (47 pounds). Her current weight is 43
pounds. So if there anything I could do to give her more calories without
compromising her sensitive GI tract that would be great.

Messages in this topic (10)
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2b. Re: can't gain weight
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:43 pm ((PDT))

> what can I feed her to gain weight?. I feed her three times
> already. She gets turkey, ground turkey necks and lamb. Each meal consist 210
> g of food,

Hi. Your dog's ideal weight ,you said is 47lb dog.

47x16x0.03= 22.56oz

23oz=652g

You said each of her meal has 210g,and feed 3 times so,you feed total 630g,but not quite 3%. You can feed 20g more,maybe round up to 30g up andthen why not try feeding 220g each meal and see how your dog does?If just started,then,you cannot see the result right away,try this and see how sheis after 1 month.

>60 g of each is RMB( turkey necks), 90g of lamb and rest is turkey. All meats are ground.

May I ask why you get ground up food for dog? chunk of food is better than ground meat because if fed ground,then,dog can inhale and meal is going to be finished in matter of seconds but if you feed meat with bone for example,then dog needs to work on it to eat and more stimulating brain and more fun for dog to eat and dog takes time to eat meal and good mental excersize as well.

> So if there anything I could do to give her more calories without compromising her >sensitive GI tract that would be great.

You could try fattier meat like pork,Beef etc and then when you feed it,if your dog got problem with fat and had poo problems,always you can remove fat skin and feed it. If she is just on rawfeeding short time,it still early to see how she does on weight-wise I think. Just give about a month or so to try varied meat adding to your menu in the future and see how she does.

Just so you know that % of feeding guideline is just a starting point so,you can up the % if your dog did not gain weight.It depends on each dog.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (10)
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2c. Re: can't gain weight
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:51 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Jon Warner <reefwiz@...> wrote:
>
> Her ribs, spine and pelvic bones are visible.

*** What breed is she? For some of my dogs, ribs, spine, and pelvis
visible is good and normal.

> She also has a very sensitive stomach and suspicion for IBD.

*** With luck this will not be an issue after she's been on raw for
a while.

My question is: what can I feed her to gain weight?. I feed her
three times already. She gets turkey, ground turkey necks and lamb.

*** You could expand the menu to include more foods, and/or you
could feed more.

> All meats are ground.

*** All ground? Does the poor thing not have any teeth?

> She gets about 3% of her ideal weight (47 pounds). Her current
weight is 43 pounds.

*** Hmmm. I have dogs near that weight range, and a 4 pound
difference in weight is often the different between before a meal
and after a meal. For truly large meals, each dog may gain up to 5
or 6 pounds.

Also, slender dogs live on average 2 years longer than chubby dogs.
Perhaps her weight is good for her?

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (10)
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2d. can't gain weight
Posted by: "Cris Milam" cmilam@comcast.net cris_milam
Date: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:59 am ((PDT))

Natalya,

Duncan was also a very skinny dog who needed to add weight. He is now at a
perfect weight, but it took a bit of finagling to get him there.

First, up your dog's amount of food to 4% of her ideal body weight. The 3%
suggested as an upper range is just that -- a suggestion. You may just have
a "hard keeper" who needs more food than the average dog.

Second, try moving to more red meats in the diet. They are higher in
calories per pound. Beef heart is what made the difference for Duncan.
However, beware that a diet high in beef heart can cause loose stools -- not
diarrhea, just loose stools in our case. Pork can also be of help in weight
gain, but it didn't help Duncan. It does work in maintaining his weight.

As far as her IBD goes, I hope someone else will chime in since I don't have
any personal experience with it. However, Duncan does have a sensitive
stomach and we had no problems with the suggestions I have given you.

My heart goes out to you. I know what it is like to have a super skinny
dog. It is not fun. I am sure you and your pup will work it out, and you
will soon have that gorgeous raw fed dog that will wow folks.

Cris M

Messages in this topic (10)
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3a. Re: Newbie: looking for the ingredants for Raw Feeding
Posted by: "kaylsraven" kaylsraven@yahoo.com kaylsraven
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:56 pm ((PDT))

Howdy! Welcome to Texas. Be glad you missed the hottest month of the
summer *lol* You're here at the best part of the year, IMO--cooling
off, but not cold yet (I'm a Texas native--50 degrees is cold for me ^_^).

Like Sandee said, check the sales adds, Walmart, and I'm sure Dallas
has some ethnic markets--if Houston's got'em, I'd be shocked if Dallas
didn't. I've found that the Asian markets yield better results than
the Mexican ones for inexpensive fish and organ meat, but it may be
different up there. If you've got an HEB up there, the ones down here
generally carry pork organs that most of the other grocery stores
don't. If you're up to a three to four hour drive once in a while
(it's just a hop, skip, and a jump--really!), we've also got a raw
feeding store down in Houston that yields a good supply of organ
meats, goat, rabbit, kangaroo, emu, etc, if you can't find it anywhere
else.

Cheers,

Sabrina 'n the gang

Messages in this topic (4)
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3b. Re: Newbie: looking for the ingredants for Raw Feeding
Posted by: "carolejc2007" mooska2me@sbcglobal.net carolejc2007
Date: Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:17 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jagbarbie" <barbie@...> wrote:
>
> I have 2 rough Collies and want to change from pre packaged Raw
Feeding
> to me buying the Raw Feeding foods and preparing the meals for my
dogs.
>
> I will be staying in Dallas Texas for the next 4 months.
>
> Please help
> Barbie
>

Barbie ~

Try Terry's or Fiesta. They are both mexican grocery stores with
several locations in the Dallas area. They carry quite a variety of
meat products you may not find at other stores. Happy shopping!

Carole

Messages in this topic (4)
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4. newbie nerves
Posted by: "monami24257" monami27@comcast.net monami24257
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:57 pm ((PDT))

I have to admit I'm having second thoughts about making this a way of
life for my two cardigan welsh corgis. The older one, Reggie, came
from a breeder who fed raw, so when, a year after getting her, I
started to feed chicken parts and even some beef, she dove right in.
The other one has always been on the dry crunchy stuff (occasionally
canned), and for the past few months, frozen raw, and she is totally
puzzled right now. I started off with chicken necks and backs just to
give them something easy to start with. She licks the food for about
20 minutes and finally gets down to chewing. I'm purposely given them
both good size pieces they must chew as the younger one, Nell, has
had a tendency to bolt her food.

When she got down to the end of a chicken leg last night, I saw a
piece of bone that was sticking out that looked and felt incredibly
sharp. How is it that these very sharp bone fragments don't pierce
the esophagus on the way down to the stomach? I'm guessing that the
stomach acid softens the bone before it moves to the intestines, but
I really was worried about this. I just don't know if I have the
stomach for this! ;-)

I really want to feel comfortable around this, as I think it might
help Reggie who, since I got her over a year ago, has had episodes of
vomiting and loss of appetite, but nothing like that was noted by her
previous owner (whose husband is a vet BTW). She was found to have
very elevated ALT and bile acids. My vet has put her on Purina EN
which I wasn't happy about, and Denosyl.

Do I just need to knuckle down and read one of the "feeding raw"
books to get my questions get answered? What would be appropriate
size 'parts' (from various sources) for 35-40 lb corgis?

thanks for any suggestions,
Ramona

Messages in this topic (1)
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5. New to raw.....looking for resources in Las Vegas, NV
Posted by: "Carrie" carrie851@yahoo.com carrie851
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:57 pm ((PDT))

Hi,
My dogs awitched to the prey model just last week. So far they are
doing wonderfully and I am beginning to investigate possible food
resources in this area to give them variety when they are ready. Any
help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Carrie (on behalf of Mandee and Buster)

Messages in this topic (1)
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6a. Re: Smelly green meat
Posted by: "Susano" tekritesue@yahoo.com tekritesue
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:58 pm ((PDT))

I love this list!! I had some pork that had literally turned green and
fed it to my pugs. But then I wondered to myself "had that turned too
much even for dogs?" Probably not, but I wondered. So I searched the
old messages for "green meat",found this post from February, and got
my answer. Nope, they can handle it. Thanks everyone!
Let me take the opportunity to remind folks that they can find SO much
info on this list by searching the messages. It's simply an amazing
repository of knowledge.
I didn't trim this post, BTW, so people will know what the heck I'm
talking about. :)
Susan and her still healthy pugs who LOOOOVE their raw food

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Morledzep@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 2/1/2007 9:12:21 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> christyb@... writes:
> What do you think -
> refreeze it and then feed it or say goodbye and toss it?
>
>
> Christy,
>
> if you're going to waste it just give it to me.. i've got 9 hungry
dogs right
> over here in the inland empire that really don't care how smelly the
meat is.
>
> Catherine R.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (15)
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7a. Re: UK suppliers
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:20 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Sandra & Caroline!
I'm not in the UK, but are these $$ expensive?
http://www.livefoods.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=74
http://www.livefoods.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=389
http://www.livefoods.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=73

http://www.rodentpro.com/catalog.asp?prod=4&label=frozen_rabbits

I don't 'do' metric, and my US $ to UK pounds conversion is very hazy.

Also, have you checked out FreeCycle UK, or craigslist UK for a free
or cheap freezer?
http://www.freecycle.org/search
http://geo.craigslist.org/iso/gb
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

<snip>
rabbit is my big bug
bear, they want £3.00 each down here for a small one, it will
eventually be on the menu as variety is the key
<snip>
Sandra

> Sandra thanks for that great information. I have contacted the
suppliers and am waiting on price lists. Now looking for a second
freezer and then ready to start.
>
> Caroline, Bonnie and Londo

Messages in this topic (4)
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7b. Re: UK suppliers
Posted by: "sange101" sange101@yahoo.co.uk sange101
Date: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:58 am ((PDT))

Hi, Giselle
Thanks for the links, especially the free cycle and craigs list, I will
definately look through them in depth for rabbits as I do eventually
want to add them to my girls diet, I cannot believe how expensive they
are from what I have seen so far when you consider the fact that they
are all over the place here.

I am sure the longer I am feeding raw and the more I check things out I
will eventually find rabbit a reasonable price. The frozen rabbit
suppliers are very expensive.

My girls are doing really well on their new raw feeding, the BC who was
never that excited about eating now rushes to the kitchen waiting for
her dinner when I say food time, which is a lovely sight for me, and I
am not sure if I am imagining it but she seems much less nervous around
strangers, again I am so pleased to see her more relaxed, with my
Aussie who is only 10 months I have not seen much change in her, always
ready to eat anything, loves people and everything else she comes
accross, it has only been a couple of weeks since they change over so
early days but all good.
Thanks
Sandra

Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. Re: Feeding Heads
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:22 am ((PDT))

Hi, Renate!
Good for you!
Are you home through out the day? 'Cause I'm thinking that feeding
them their daily portion in one swell foop to begin with might not
have the effect you are looking for. Dogs who eat raw, ime, have
cleaner, less smelly muzzles, breath and mouths than kibble fed ones.
You can always use a damp cloth or baby wipes for a ritual muzzle
cleaning after their meals. Splitting up the daily portions into 2
meals a day at first can help to avoid 'cannon butt', incomplete
digestion of bones or horking up of entire meals. These things often
happen to new-to-raw dogs because their digestive systems, used to
eating cereal, are not yet geared up for raw meat 'n bones. Sometimes
this is evident from the first meal, sometimes you can be surprised by
it a few days or a week in - or sometimes not until after the second
protein addition. you could feed a meal in the early morning, then mid
afternoon, if you are at home then, maybe, if you still want to avoid
an evening meal.

It may be controversial to mention this, but are you going to allow
the gestation to go full term?
RL is often not under our control - when it sucks, it sucks Big Time! : (
TC
Giselle

> I know you are right and I appreciate your input, so I went today
and bought
> a heap of chicken quarters.
<snip>
I already had a huge
> mess up with my bitch Bella. She went into heat and is now
thoroughly bred
> by Frodo though I had certainly not intended that.
<snip>
> Anyway, any advice at this point about these stupid detail would help.
> Sorry to be so pathetic.
> Renate

Messages in this topic (9)
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8b. Re: Feeding Heads
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:11 am ((PDT))

Hi Giselle. Yes, I'm home. I will take your advice and feed twice a day to
start. The reason I hadn't had Bella spayed was she is a very unusual Tzu
in her talent for agility. I talked it over with my vet and we decided to
wait another year until she was old enough to compete to see if there was
something ongoing and 'real' there. Frodo was a 'rescue' (not a formal
rescue with my group, but a personal one) from a breeder that has 38 female
shih tzus and 2 males (now one male) running around in her kitchen. I
intended to neuter him but I had a rescue dog here I was fostering who
attacked him and broke 3 ribs. So Fro has been on restricted movement for 6
weeks (one of the ribs was out of position and they thought it could pierce
his lung if they did any sort of binding or anything on him) so I couldn't
really get him done. So now I have a decision to make. At least I have
tons of experience with placing puppies and reference checks and such ;-)
Though it is kind of embarrassing for a person working in dog rescue to be
in this position.
Renate

On 9/20/07, Giselle <megan.giselle@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi, Renate!
> Good for you!
> Are you home through out the day? 'Cause I'm thinking that feeding
> them their daily portion in one swell foop to begin with might not
> have the effect you are looking for. Dogs who eat raw, ime, have
> cleaner, less smelly muzzles, breath and mouths than kibble fed ones.
> You can always use a damp cloth or baby wipes for a ritual muzzle
> cleaning after their meals. Splitting up the daily portions into 2
> meals a day at first can help to avoid 'cannon butt', incomplete
> digestion of bones or horking up of entire meals. These things often
> happen to new-to-raw dogs because their digestive systems, used to
> eating cereal, are not yet geared up for raw meat 'n bones. Sometimes
> this is evident from the first meal, sometimes you can be surprised by
> it a few days or a week in - or sometimes not until after the second
> protein addition. you could feed a meal in the early morning, then mid
> afternoon, if you are at home then, maybe, if you still want to avoid
> an evening meal.
>
> It may be controversial to mention this, but are you going to allow
> the gestation to go full term?
> RL is often not under our control - when it sucks, it sucks Big Time! : (
> TC
> Giselle
>
> > I know you are right and I appreciate your input, so I went today
> and bought
> > a heap of chicken quarters.
> <snip>
> I already had a huge
> > mess up with my bitch Bella. She went into heat and is now
> thoroughly bred
> > by Frodo though I had certainly not intended that.
> <snip>
> > Anyway, any advice at this point about these stupid detail would help.
> > Sorry to be so pathetic.
> > Renate
>
>
>

--
Renate
'The more I learn about men, the more I love my Shih Tzu'

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Messages in this topic (9)
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